Columbia EIP 2016 Forum

[Anonymous User]

I get that you're trying to play it safe, but I think you might be a little *too* safe here and you're leaving off some firms that you could definitely get offers from that might have better opportunities in new york than what you have here. Specifically, I might try to include Sidley, Paul Hastings, Jones Day, Perkins Coie, and Weil Gotschal. How to make room for them? I might kick Kaye Scholer and K&L Gates. See if you can squeeze a few of those guys in. Worst case, you bid them at the bottom and miss them and resume drop them saying you bid them and didn't get an interview.

Awesome advice. I was actually considering swapping out Kaye just because I wasn't comfortable with only having a 2 bid buffer. Here's the new list:

1: (3) Proskauer Rose
2: (5) Hogan Lovels
3: (6) Weil
4: (8) Milbank
5: (9) Ropes & Gray
6: (11) Willkie
7: (12) Schulte
8: (12) Cahill Gordon
9: (14) Cadwalader
10: (14) Akin Gump
11: (16) Fried Frank
12: (18) Kramer Levin
13: (*) Shearman Sterling
14: (19) Orrick
15: (21) Hughs Hubbard
16: (21) Pilsbury
17: (23) Dechert
18: (23) Vinson Elkins
19: (24) Seward
20: (24) Jones Day
21: (25) Stroock
22: (27) Hunton
23: (27) Simpson Thatcher
24: (27) Winston Strawn
25:
26: (*) McDermott
27: (29) Sheppard Mullen
28: (28) Haynes
29: (*) Bryan Cave
30: (2) Sidley

Are you sure this isn't too risky though? I'm a little uncomfortable putting a firm as selective as Weil that far up top. I don't have any work experience and I'm not on law review (although I was on a moot court for whatever that's worth). I just really don't want to strike out.

[jbagelboy]

I get that you're trying to play it safe, but I think you might be a little *too* safe here and you're leaving off some firms that you could definitely get offers from that might have better opportunities in new york than what you have here. Specifically, I might try to include Sidley, Paul Hastings, Jones Day, Perkins Coie, and Weil Gotschal. How to make room for them? I might kick Kaye Scholer and K&L Gates. See if you can squeeze a few of those guys in. Worst case, you bid them at the bottom and miss them and resume drop them saying you bid them and didn't get an interview.

Awesome advice. I was actually considering swapping out Kaye just because I wasn't comfortable with only having a 2 bid buffer. Here's the new list:

1: (3) Proskauer Rose
2: (5) Hogan Lovels
3: (6) Weil
4: (8) Milbank
5: (9) Ropes & Gray
6: (11) Willkie
7: (12) Schulte
8: (12) Cahill Gordon
9: (14) Cadwalader
10: (14) Akin Gump
11: (16) Fried Frank
12: (18) Kramer Levin
13: (*) Shearman Sterling
14: (19) Orrick
15: (21) Hughs Hubbard
16: (21) Pilsbury
17: (23) Dechert
18: (23) Vinson Elkins
19: (24) Seward
20: (24) Jones Day
21: (25) Stroock
22: (27) Hunton
23: (27) Simpson Thatcher
24: (27) Winston Strawn
25:
26: (*) McDermott
27: (29) Sheppard Mullen
28: (28) Haynes
29: (*) Bryan Cave
30: (2) Sidley

Are you sure this isn't too risky though? I'm a little uncomfortable putting a firm as selective as Weil that far up top. I don't have any work experience and I'm not on law review (although I was on a moot court for whatever that's worth). I just really don't want to strike out.

you're an above median student, as long as you have some social graces you're not going to strike out. the issue is getting you into the room with the most firms you'd actually want to work at--in your position you do want to play a numbers game. Weil isn't that selective, I'd say you are their bread and butter candidate (b/t median and Stone). What is PH's FFB?

[rustyburger2]

you're an above median student, as long as you have some social graces you're not going to strike out. the issue is getting you into the room with the most firms you'd actually want to work at--in your position you do want to play a numbers game. Weil isn't that selective, I'd say you are their bread and butter candidate (b/t median and Stone). What is PH's FFB?

Paul Hastings? It's at 1.

[jbagelboy]

you're an above median student, as long as you have some social graces you're not going to strike out. the issue is getting you into the room with the most firms you'd actually want to work at--in your position you do want to play a numbers game. Weil isn't that selective, I'd say you are their bread and butter candidate (b/t median and Stone). What is PH's FFB?

Paul Hastings? It's at 1.

ah. fuck it then. not worth it

[Anonymous User]

you're an above median student, as long as you have some social graces you're not going to strike out. the issue is getting you into the room with the most firms you'd actually want to work at--in your position you do want to play a numbers game. Weil isn't that selective, I'd say you are their bread and butter candidate (b/t median and Stone). What is PH's FFB?

Paul Hastings? It's at 1.

ah. fuck it then. not worth it

Haha yeah my thoughts exactly

[Anonymous User]

Apparently resume collections start today. Anyone know what they are/entail?

[Anonymous User]

Ugh I only ranked three journals and didn't get on any... if I'm planning on applying in the supplemental application process on July 20, should I put "Journal: TBD" on my resume? Or just don't include any?

[Anonymous User]

Ugh I only ranked three journals and didn't get on any... if I'm planning on applying in the supplemental application process on July 20, should I put "Journal: TBD" on my resume? Or just don't include any?

Don't include any and then you will just hand the screener an updated resume

[Anonymous User]

Any idea when awards/prizes are coming out?

[Anonymous User]

Did International Arbitration calls/emails come out?

[Anonymous User]

Relax. It's not a problem. I had CBs at MTO, BSF, and W&C without being on LR.

Can I assume this was with Kent-neighborhood GPA?

This was with a 3.86.

[Anonymous User]

I would appreciate some advice on my bid list. I've been tinkering with this for far too long...

My grades are bad, it came down to 3.16, although they improved overall in the spring semester.
I have 4yrs of work experience before law school though, in public policy + government stuff.

Some 2Ls said that my original bid list was TOO safe, so i added in some more reach firms like Ropes & Gray / O'Melvenly / Simpson Thatcher--just because I know 2Ls without honors who made it to those firms... Not sure if they had 3.1-ish grades though, they probably did better.

Anyway, here's what I have so far and I would appreciate any comments and criticisms. Thank you!!

1. (3) mayer brown llp
2. (5) White & Case LLP
3. (9) Ropes & Gray LLP
4. (8) Milbank, Tweed, Hadley & McCloy LLP
5. (*) Shearman & Sterling LLP
6. (11) Willkie Farr & Gallagher LLP
7. (12) Schulte Roth & Zabel LLP
8. (12) Cahill Gordon & Reindel LLP
9. (14) Cadwalader, Wickersham & Taft LLP
10. (16) Fried Frank Harris Shriver & Jacobson LLP
11. (19) O'Melvenly & Myers LLP
12. (17) Goodwin Proctor
13. (18) King & Spalding
14. (19) Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe LLP
15. (21) Pillsbury Winthrop Shaw Pittman LLP
16. (23) Dechert LLP
17. (23) Vinson & Elkins LLP
18. (21) Chadbourne & Parke LLP
19. (27) Winston & Strawn LLP
20. (27) Simpson, Thatcher & bartlett llp
21. (23) paul hastings llp (SF office)
22. (25) Strook & Strook LLP
23. (27) Hunton & Williams LLP
24. (*) McDermott Will & Emery
25. (27) Bracewell
26. (28) Haynes and Boone
27. (29) Sheppard, Mulin, Richter & Hampton LLP
28. (30) Morgan Lewis & Bockius LLP
29. (*) Norton Rose Fulbright

[Anonymous User]

Did International Arbitration calls/emails come out?

Yeah my friend got an email a few hours ago!

[Anonymous User]

Kent that missed law review, is this going to look weird/bad at EIP?

Look nobody who matters gives a damn about CLR--not firms, not judges. RBG's latest CLS hire wasn't on CLR. None of the people Munger took from my year were on CLR. Etc.

That is just not true. Even if you don't need CLR to get the most prestigious firms or judges, it certainly helps. If nothing else, people with good grades tend to get on Law Review (because LRs, including CLR, tend to heavily weight grades when selecting members), and LR-alumni interviewers tend to give a significant bump to LR interviewees because of the shared connection.

That being said, you should definitely NOT worry if you didn't make it. As others have said, if you have the grades, you can still get a job at a top firm---very few interviewers would raise an eyebrow based on journal affiliation. CLR selection criteria, like any set of criteria for evaluating people, are imperfect, and employers recognize this. It's kind of like going to Columbia instead of Harvard. Harvard kids may have a bit of an advantage, but we do just fine!

[Anonymous User]

I would appreciate some advice on my bid list. I've been tinkering with this for far too long...

My grades are bad, it came down to 3.16, although they improved overall in the spring semester.
I have 4yrs of work experience before law school though, in public policy + government stuff.

Some 2Ls said that my original bid list was TOO safe, so i added in some more reach firms like Ropes & Gray / O'Melvenly / Simpson Thatcher--just because I know 2Ls without honors who made it to those firms... Not sure if they had 3.1-ish grades though, they probably did better.

Anyway, here's what I have so far and I would appreciate any comments and criticisms. Thank you!!

1. (3) Mayer Brown LLP
2. (5) White & Case LLP
3. (9) Ropes & Gray LLP
4. (8) Milbank, Tweed, Hadley & McCloy LLP
5. (*) Shearman & Sterling LLP
6. (11) Willkie Farr & Gallagher LLP
7. (12) Schulte Roth & Zabel LLP
8. (12) Cahill Gordon & Reindel LLP
9. (14) Cadwalader, Wickersham & Taft LLP
10. (16) Fried Frank Harris Shriver & Jacobson LLP
11. (19) O'Melvenly & Myers LLP
12. (17) Goodwin Proctor
13. (18) King & Spalding
14. (19) Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe LLP
15. (21) Pillsbury Winthrop Shaw Pittman LLP
16. (23) Dechert LLP
17. (23) Vinson & Elkins LLP
18. (21) Chadbourne & Parke LLP
19. (27) Winston & Strawn LLP
20. (27) Simpson, Thatcher & Bartlett LLP
21. (23) Paul Hastings LLP (SF office)
22. (25) Strook & Strook LLP
23. (27) Hunton & Williams LLP
24. (*) McDermott Will & Emery
25. (27) Bracewell
26. (28) Haynes and Boone
27. (29) Sheppard, Mulin, Richter & Hampton LLP
28. (30) Morgan Lewis & Bockius LLP
29. (*) Norton Rose Fulbright

Maybe I'm going too much off of the bid list above, but I do think hogan lovells and Proskauer might be better bets at the top than say, Mayer Brown or White and Case. My understanding was that Mayer Brown has a smaller New York summer class since they're not an NYC firm, and from what I remember (but please someone correct me if I'm wrong) White and Case has a higher honors %. Proskauer has bigger summer classes and isn't honors-selective. And at least when I did EIP a few years ago, Hogan really wanted CLS kids (though their summer class is admittedly on the smaller side). Just two omissions I saw, but I think this is a pretty safe list, and I don't think having Simpson on there is a big detriment because you can put them so low and still get an interview

[Anonymous User]

I would appreciate some advice on my bid list. I've been tinkering with this for far too long...

My grades are bad, it came down to 3.16, although they improved overall in the spring semester.
I have 4yrs of work experience before law school though, in public policy + government stuff.

Some 2Ls said that my original bid list was TOO safe, so i added in some more reach firms like Ropes & Gray / O'Melvenly / Simpson Thatcher--just because I know 2Ls without honors who made it to those firms... Not sure if they had 3.1-ish grades though, they probably did better.

Anyway, here's what I have so far and I would appreciate any comments and criticisms. Thank you!!

1. (3) Mayer Brown LLP
2. (5) White & Case LLP
3. (9) Ropes & Gray LLP
4. (8) Milbank, Tweed, Hadley & McCloy LLP
5. (*) Shearman & Sterling LLP
6. (11) Willkie Farr & Gallagher LLP
7. (12) Schulte Roth & Zabel LLP
8. (12) Cahill Gordon & Reindel LLP
9. (14) Cadwalader, Wickersham & Taft LLP
10. (16) Fried Frank Harris Shriver & Jacobson LLP
11. (19) O'Melvenly & Myers LLP
12. (17) Goodwin Proctor
13. (18) King & Spalding
14. (19) Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe LLP
15. (21) Pillsbury Winthrop Shaw Pittman LLP
16. (23) Dechert LLP
17. (23) Vinson & Elkins LLP
18. (21) Chadbourne & Parke LLP
19. (27) Winston & Strawn LLP
20. (27) Simpson, Thatcher & Bartlett LLP
21. (23) Paul Hastings LLP (SF office)
22. (25) Strook & Strook LLP
23. (27) Hunton & Williams LLP
24. (*) McDermott Will & Emery
25. (27) Bracewell
26. (28) Haynes and Boone
27. (29) Sheppard, Mulin, Richter & Hampton LLP
28. (30) Morgan Lewis & Bockius LLP
29. (*) Norton Rose Fulbright

Maybe I'm going too much off of the bid list above, but I do think Hogan Lovells and Proskauer might be better bets at the top than say, Mayer Brown or White and Case. My understanding was that Mayer Brown has a smaller New York summer class since they're not an NYC firm, and from what I remember (but please someone correct me if I'm wrong) White and Case has a higher honors %. Proskauer has bigger summer classes and isn't honors-selective. And at least when I did EIP a few years ago, Hogan really wanted CLS kids (though their summer class is admittedly on the smaller side). Just two omissions I saw, but I think this is a pretty safe list, and I don't think having Simpson on there is a big detriment because you can put them so low and still get an interview

Thanks for the great advice! White & Case offer by honors in 2015 was 25%, HL 29% and Proskauer 28%. MB had 11%. But you're absolutely right--White & Case /Mayer Brown gave out smaller # of offers last year than Hogan or Proskauer. (Offers---Hogan: 18, Proskauer: 20, White & Case: 6, Mayer Brown 9). I guess I was too fixated on the firms because 1) a friend I know well with similar GPA recommended them, and 2) some lawyers recommended White & Case quite strongly. I actually spent a lot of time (a whole month tbh) trying to decide between White & Case vs. hogan lovells for the 2nd bid. Thanks for helping me make the final decision!

[Anonymous User]

How's this bid list for ~3.6 transactional?

Bid list:
1. Kirkland-Corporate
2. Skadden
3. Debevoise
4. White&Case
5. Weil
6. Paul Weiss
7. S&C
8. Cahill
9. Cleary
10. Davis Polk
11. Cadwalder
12. Latham
13. Cooley
14. Freshfields
15. O'Melveny
16. Boise corporate
17. Cravath
18. Wachtell
19. Jones Day
20. Simpson
21. Dechert
22. Strook
23. Baker
24. Winston
25. Bracewell
26. Shearman
27. Sheppard
28. Milbank
29. Paul Hastings
30. Gibson Dunn

[Anonymous User]

I know this has been asked before but don't think it got answered. What exactly does it mean to bid on Kirkland Corporate versus just Kirkland (besides the obvious)? Does bidding Kirkland "Regular" mean you want litigation, or does it just mean you are undecided?

TL;DR: if I know I want to do corporate, but am not super hard core about it, should I be bidding on Kirkland Corporate or stick with the regular Kirkland which has more interview slots?

[jbagelboy]

Kent that missed law review, is this going to look weird/bad at EIP?

Look nobody who matters gives a damn about CLR--not firms, not judges. RBG's latest CLS hire wasn't on CLR. None of the people Munger took from my year were on CLR. Etc.

That is just not true. Even if you don't need CLR to get the most prestigious firms or judges, it certainly helps. If nothing else, people with good grades tend to get on Law Review (because LRs, including CLR, tend to heavily weight grades when selecting members), and LR-alumni interviewers tend to give a significant bump to LR interviewees because of the shared connection.

That being said, you should definitely NOT worry if you didn't make it. As others have said, if you have the grades, you can still get a job at a top firm---very few interviewers would raise an eyebrow based on journal affiliation. CLR selection criteria, like any set of criteria for evaluating people, are imperfect, and employers recognize this. It's kind of like going to Columbia instead of Harvard. Harvard kids may have a bit of an advantage, but we do just fine!

It is not at all like the distinction, whatever it may be, between attending Columbia and Harvard.

[Anonymous User]

How's this bid list for ~3.6 transactional?

Bid list:
1. Kirkland-Corporate
2. Skadden
3. Debevoise
4. White&Case
5. Weil
6. Paul Weiss
7. S&C
8. Cahill
9. Cleary
10. Davis Polk
11. Cadwalder
12. Latham
13. Cooley
14. Freshfields
15. O'Melveny
16. Boise corporate
17. Cravath
18. Wachtell
19. Jones Day
20. Simpson
21. Dechert
22. Strook
23. Baker
24. Winston
25. Bracewell
26. Shearman
27. Sheppard
28. Milbank
29. Paul Hastings
30. Gibson Dunn

Boies corporate (a non-entity) and Wachtell (you have no chance) should be struck. Ropes and Sidley should be added (even if below FFB). Also consider Fried Frank - they are significantly stronger in many transactional practices than, e.g., Baker (either Baker). But that is an academic point, since you are likely get offers from many of the other firms on this list.

[pinkiepie]

I know this has been asked before but don't think it got answered. What exactly does it mean to bid on Kirkland Corporate versus just Kirkland (besides the obvious)? Does bidding Kirkland "Regular" mean you want litigation, or does it just mean you are undecided?

TL;DR: if I know I want to do corporate, but am not super hard core about it, should I be bidding on Kirkland Corporate or stick with the regular Kirkland which has more interview slots?

If you're interested enough in transactional to be able to talk about it in an interview, bid corporate. The interviewers will be corporate, and you will be able to get a better idea of how you like corporate at Kirkland. Your summer will be in corporate, which you probably want anyway, but nothing's set in stone for your career.

[Anonymous User]

Would love comments on my draft list. High 3.6s but missed law review. A lot of work experience. Interested in corporate, perhaps with a lean towards tech. Also potentially interested in tax. Only bidding in NY.

1 Kirkland & Ellis (Corporate) (2)
2 Weil (6)
3 Milbank (8)
4 Ropes & Gray (9)
5 Paul Weiss (11)
6 Sullivan & Cromwell (12)
7 Cleary Gotlieb (14)
8 Wilson Sonsini (14)
9 Davis Polk (15)
10 Fried Frank (16)
11 Cooley (16)
12 Latham & Watkins (17)
13 Goodwin Procter (17)
14 Covington & Burling (18)
15 O'Melveny (19)
16 Orrick Herrington (19)
17 Kramer Levin (18)
18 Cravath (23)
19 Jones Day (24)
20 Dechert (23)
21 Simpson Thacher (27)
22 Winston & Strawn (27)
23 Shearman & Sterling (*)
24 Gunderson (*)
25 Seyfarth Shaw (New)
26 Roberts & Holland (New)
27 Sidley Austin (2)
28 Skadden Arps (3)
29 Gibson Dunn (3)
30 Debevoise (4)

[Anonymous User]

I would appreciate some advice on my bid list. I've been tinkering with this for far too long...

My grades are bad, it came down to 3.16, although they improved overall in the spring semester.
I have 4yrs of work experience before law school though, in public policy + government stuff.

Some 2Ls said that my original bid list was TOO safe, so i added in some more reach firms like Ropes & Gray / O'Melvenly / Simpson Thatcher--just because I know 2Ls without honors who made it to those firms... Not sure if they had 3.1-ish grades though, they probably did better.

Anyway, here's what I have so far and I would appreciate any comments and criticisms. Thank you!!

1. (3) Mayer Brown LLP
2. (5) White & Case LLP
3. (9) Ropes & Gray LLP
4. (8) Milbank, Tweed, Hadley & McCloy LLP
5. (*) Shearman & Sterling LLP
6. (11) Willkie Farr & Gallagher LLP
7. (12) Schulte Roth & Zabel LLP
8. (12) Cahill Gordon & Reindel LLP
9. (14) Cadwalader, Wickersham & Taft LLP
10. (16) Fried Frank Harris Shriver & Jacobson LLP
11. (19) O'Melvenly & Myers LLP
12. (17) Goodwin Proctor
13. (18) King & Spalding
14. (19) Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe LLP
15. (21) Pillsbury Winthrop Shaw Pittman LLP
16. (23) Dechert LLP
17. (23) Vinson & Elkins LLP
18. (21) Chadbourne & Parke LLP
19. (27) Winston & Strawn LLP
20. (27) Simpson, Thatcher & Bartlett LLP
21. (23) Paul Hastings LLP (SF office)
22. (25) Strook & Strook LLP
23. (27) Hunton & Williams LLP
24. (*) McDermott Will & Emery
25. (27) Bracewell
26. (28) Haynes and Boone
27. (29) Sheppard, Mulin, Richter & Hampton LLP
28. (30) Morgan Lewis & Bockius LLP
29. (*) Norton Rose Fulbright

Maybe I'm going too much off of the bid list above, but I do think Hogan Lovells and Proskauer might be better bets at the top than say, Mayer Brown or White and Case. My understanding was that Mayer Brown has a smaller New York summer class since they're not an NYC firm, and from what I remember (but please someone correct me if I'm wrong) White and Case has a higher honors %. Proskauer has bigger summer classes and isn't honors-selective. And at least when I did EIP a few years ago, Hogan really wanted CLS kids (though their summer class is admittedly on the smaller side). Just two omissions I saw, but I think this is a pretty safe list, and I don't think having Simpson on there is a big detriment because you can put them so low and still get an interview

Thanks for the great advice! White & Case offer by honors in 2015 was 25%, HL 29% and Proskauer 28%. MB had 11%. But you're absolutely right--White & Case /Mayer Brown gave out smaller # of offers last year than Hogan or Proskauer. (Offers---Hogan: 18, Proskauer: 20, White & Case: 6, Mayer Brown 9). I guess I was too fixated on the firms because 1) a friend I know well with similar GPA recommended them, and 2) some lawyers recommended White & Case quite strongly. I actually spent a lot of time (a whole month tbh) trying to decide between White & Case vs. Hogan Lovells for the 2nd bid. Thanks for helping me make the final decision!

[]

[Anonymous User]

Anyone know when we should be getting our interview schedules?

[Anonymous User]

Would love comments on my draft list. High 3.6s but missed law review. A lot of work experience. Interested in corporate, perhaps with a lean towards tech. Also potentially interested in tax. Only bidding in NY.

1 Kirkland & Ellis (Corporate) (2)
2 Weil (6)
3 Milbank (8)
4 Ropes & Gray (9)
5 Paul Weiss (11)
6 Sullivan & Cromwell (12)
7 Cleary Gotlieb (14)
8 Wilson Sonsini (14)
9 Davis Polk (15)
10 Fried Frank (16)
11 Cooley (16)
12 Latham & Watkins (17)
13 Goodwin Procter (17)
14 Covington & Burling (18)
15 O'Melveny (19)
16 Orrick Herrington (19)
17 Kramer Levin (18)
18 Cravath (23)
19 Jones Day (24)
20 Dechert (23)
21 Simpson Thacher (27)
22 Winston & Strawn (27)
23 Shearman & Sterling (*)
24 Gunderson (*)
25 Seyfarth Shaw (New)
26 Roberts & Holland (New)
27 Sidley Austin (2)
28 Skadden Arps (3)
29 Gibson Dunn (3)
30 Debevoise (4)

Why K&E over Skadden?