Michigan 2014 OCI Thread!!!!!!! Forum

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OfThriceandTen

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Re: Michigan 2014 OCI Thread!!!!!!!

Post by OfThriceandTen » Sat Jul 19, 2014 2:33 am

Anonymous User wrote:I think the idea on the limiting the cities thing is based on the following rationale:

1. Firms, especially outside NYC and DC, care about a relationship to the city.
2. Most students can show a solid connection to at most three cities, and frequently fewer (for me it's one).
3. Firms can ask why the student is interested in their city and what other firms they're interviewing with.
4. If a student is asked, they should be able to demonstrate that they have a real connection to the city and are pursuing employment options there as someone who wanted to be there would.
5. Lying is a bad idea in employment interviews.

So, if the average student gets 14 interviews, and they split those between 4 cities, that means they're only interviewing at 3.5 firms for a city. If a student says they're really interested in a city but they're only looking into two other firms there during OCI, that might send up a red flag.

An exception might be made for those at or near the top of the class. For example, a student interested in doing corporate work, who has relevant experience, excellent references, and comes into OCI with an offer can bid only a few firms in a city and explain that away easily (I was only interested in the small number of firms I would select over the existing offer that I had; your firm is one of those).

Of course, at this point, its pointless to argue, but I've nothing else to do.
Basically this. Also, keep in mind that you may think you only have to lie or fake ties for a 20 minute interview, but there are a ton of other ways firms get information about you: firm receptions, callback interviews, callback lunches, even setting up your travel.

I don't know, it all comes down to my earlier point: this game is not all about your GPA. If your GPA is good, the firms who are interested in you will likely care less about other things. But if you don't have the GPA, you need to focus on your positive attributes besides grades because you should be looking at firms that care way more about that kind of stuff. The 3.1 median firm is not 3.1 median because they couldn't get 3.2s. The median is that low because they'll likely go after the candidate they want, whether that person has a 3.9 or a 2.8. They want to see a reflection of themselves: someone who is really excited to live the life that they're living. That means someone who wants to live in the area they live in, have the job they have, get to do similar work that they do. Carpetbombing firms in 4 markets because they have the lowest GPA requirements, which you equate to being the least selective (a false equivalence, to be sure) could work to seriously undermine your efforts at the firms where you did have a chance.

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Re: Michigan 2014 OCI Thread!!!!!!!

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Jul 19, 2014 2:04 pm

Noticed curves were up. Case anyone was curious where they likely fell in the class.

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Re: Michigan 2014 OCI Thread!!!!!!!

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Jul 19, 2014 3:55 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Noticed curves were up. Case anyone was curious where they likely fell in the class.
Looks like I received the highest grade in one of my classes, but was informed the prof decided not to award a certificate of merit for the course. Is there a way I can fit this little deet into my resume without pissing off OCP? I had lackluster fall grades, so I could use the boost.

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Re: Michigan 2014 OCI Thread!!!!!!!

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Jul 19, 2014 4:32 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Noticed curves were up. Case anyone was curious where they likely fell in the class.
Where do we find this info?

User avatar
Druid

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Re: Michigan 2014 OCI Thread!!!!!!!

Post by Druid » Sat Jul 19, 2014 4:45 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Noticed curves were up. Case anyone was curious where they likely fell in the class.
Where do we find this info?
Office of student records, bottom hyperlink on the side bar on the right side of the screen.

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sucsuroc

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Re: Michigan 2014 OCI Thread!!!!!!!

Post by sucsuroc » Sat Jul 19, 2014 4:51 pm

Anonymous User wrote:At their main offices, only Weil and maybe Latham.

3.5 in our class is only top third.
Rising 3L K-JD here. No substantial work experience, 1L summer was not special, was on secondary journal. I went into EIW with a 3.500 and walked out with six offers, including from a V5. I know someone who went in with a far higher GPA- 3.666 I believe- and walked out with only one offer (from a V50). He's not weird or anything, he just didn't do well at OCI. The biggest thing I learned from the process is that it's not nearly as grade-driven as everyone seemed to believe. This is not like law school admissions. While a high GPA certainly helps, being a good interviewer or seeming pretty interested in the actual work can make a huge difference.
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:At their main offices, only Weil and maybe Latham.

3.5 in our class is only top third.
How do you know this?
[...] There are better uses of those students' top 15+ bids than the likes of Cravath, Cleary, S&C, Skadden, Davis Polk, Simpson Thatcher, or Kirkland (to say nothing of Covington & Burling, Williams and Connolly, WilmerHale, and other DC firms, or for that matter the Chicago office of Mayer Brown or Sidley). I think it's completely reasonable for someone with a 3.5 to use some lower bids to try to pick up an interview with those firms. Maybe they'll have a shot if they are impressive when they interview. However, the utility derived from some big law offer is substantial.
I can confirm this is a good strategy. If you pay attention, you won't actually lose interviews. I bid a lot of the really selective firms very low - I think Davis Polk was like 28 and Cravath was also pretty far back. Bid the less selective ones higher. Remember, the list isn't in the order you actually want to work for; you can bid the firms that always give everyone an interview pretty low without being worried.
Anonymous User wrote:Informal poll: is Law Reform as terrible as everyone a few pages ago made it out to be, or was that just that just the internet being angry? My choice is between Law Reform and no journal, so I'm guessing it's better than nothing. Or is it?
Journals aren't nearly as bad as everyone thinks they are. You have to write a note, which really sucks, but you get can get credit for it and nobody ever gets less than an A. The citechecking/sourcegathering/etc is not that hard. It takes like five hours and you have to do it four times a year. It doesn't even matter if you halfass it as long as it doesn't look like you halfassed it- so long as you just make the person on the ed board going over your work think you're an idiot, you're fine.

Call OCI about this - Carolyn shared statistics about journals with me last year. She said that even controlling for GPA, people on Law Review got more clerkship offers than no journal and more offers than any other journal. MJLR had a lesser effect, but more than any other journal. They don't have statistics like this for normal employment, just clerkships, but she certainly believed being on a journal is the smart move.

Do the journal.

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Re: Michigan 2014 OCI Thread!!!!!!!

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jul 21, 2014 1:14 am

22 interviews...this will be fun

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Re: Michigan 2014 OCI Thread!!!!!!!

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jul 21, 2014 1:29 am

15 interviews for Chicago

Missed Katten at #2 somehow

Edited to add to these data points for future reference:

Missed (all Chicago):
Katten at 2
Baker & McKenzie at 6
Chapman & Cutler at 9
Polsinelli at 10
Holland & Knight at 18
Bryan Cave at 19
everything else missed was below 20
Last edited by Anonymous User on Mon Jul 21, 2014 10:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Michigan 2014 OCI Thread!!!!!!!

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jul 21, 2014 3:23 am

24 interviews. 22 for the market I am interested in (NY). I have a shot at, and could see myself working at, each of the firms.

For those who have done it before, is this too much? Should I drop the two non-NY firms? Any other thoughts?


Also, for reference next year:

Got:
Shearman & Sterling (NY) at 9
Proskauer (NY) at 12
Cadwalader (NY) at 16
WilmerHale (NY) at 19
Simpson Thacher (NY) at 23
Debevoise (NY) at 24

Missed:
OMM (LA) at 20
Paul Weiss (NY) at 25

Otherwise as 2013 bid-to-interview numbers would suggest

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Anonymous User
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Re: Michigan 2014 OCI Thread!!!!!!!

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jul 21, 2014 5:58 am

FYI

Got:
- Shearman & Sterling at 20
- White & Case at 24
- Cadwalader at 25
- Wilson Sonsini at 29
- Cleary at 30 (!)

Missed:
- Sisley Austin at 5
- OMM at 13
- Schulte Roth at 17
- Weil at 22

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Re: Michigan 2014 OCI Thread!!!!!!!

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jul 21, 2014 6:56 am

23 interviews... no back to back

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Re: Michigan 2014 OCI Thread!!!!!!!

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jul 21, 2014 6:56 am

23 interviews... no back to back

mvp99

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Re: Michigan 2014 OCI Thread!!!!!!!

Post by mvp99 » Mon Jul 21, 2014 6:58 am

.
Last edited by mvp99 on Fri Feb 27, 2015 7:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Michigan 2014 OCI Thread!!!!!!!

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jul 21, 2014 7:03 am

FYI putting what firms you missed can be helpful to future years, but try and include the office as well. Wilson sonsini DC is different from Palo Alto

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Re: Michigan 2014 OCI Thread!!!!!!!

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jul 21, 2014 7:13 am

Anonymous User wrote:FYI

Got:
- Shearman & Sterling at 20
- White & Case at 24
- Cadwalader at 25
- Wilson Sonsini at 29
- Cleary at 30 (!)

Missed:
- Sisley Austin at 5
- OMM at 13
- Schulte Roth at 17
- Weil at 22
Safe to assume these are all NYC offices, cause Sidley Chi did not need to be that high.

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Re: Michigan 2014 OCI Thread!!!!!!!

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jul 21, 2014 7:26 am

Missed for DC:
- Morgan Lewis at 3
- Crowell Moring at 5
- Foley at 15

Everything else I missed was at 20 or below.

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Re: Michigan 2014 OCI Thread!!!!!!!

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:55 am

25 interviews...

Missed:

Arnold & Porter @ 5 (DC)
Greenberg Traurig @ 13 (Secondary)
Holland & Knight @ 14 (Secondary)
Sidley Austin @ 16 (DC)
Faegre @ 25 (Secondary)

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Re: Michigan 2014 OCI Thread!!!!!!!

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:13 am

wasnt the average 12? seems like a lot of people has 20+

edit: so... class mean is 3.37

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Re: Michigan 2014 OCI Thread!!!!!!!

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:47 am

Missed:

Baker & McKenzie (Chi) at 7
Foley & Lardner (Milwaukee) at 16
Quarles & Brady (Milwaukee) at 20
Vedder Price (Chi) at 21
Locke Lord (Chi) at 22
McDermott Will Emery (Chi) at 26
Proskauer (Chi) at 28

Have 23 interviews scheduled. Yikes.

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Re: Michigan 2014 OCI Thread!!!!!!!

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:57 am

So during add drop, I think I read somewhere that you can only add interviews up to 12 (or whatever the avg number of interviews is). I only got 15, which sounds paltry compared to yall. But I won't be able to add?0

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Re: Michigan 2014 OCI Thread!!!!!!!

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jul 21, 2014 11:07 am

25 interviews... quite a few back to back, to echo some of the others do people with experience think I should drop to focus on a fewer number more seriously or tough it out and try to go into all hard to increase my chances of offers (top 1/4 gpa bidding NY).

Also, I think all the high interview numbers are indicative of our smaller class size, more chances for us, and hopefully higher percentages of offers all around, good luck

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Re: Michigan 2014 OCI Thread!!!!!!!

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jul 21, 2014 11:14 am

Anonymous User wrote:25 interviews... quite a few back to back, to echo some of the others do people with experience think I should drop to focus on a fewer number more seriously or tough it out and try to go into all hard to increase my chances of offers (top 1/4 gpa bidding NY).

Also, I think all the high interview numbers are indicative of our smaller class size, more chances for us, and hopefully higher percentages of offers all around, good luck
Tough it out. It's a numbers game. Even though you have very good odds with your grades and targeting NY, 20 minute interviews won't kill you.

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Re: Michigan 2014 OCI Thread!!!!!!!

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jul 21, 2014 11:25 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:25 interviews... quite a few back to back, to echo some of the others do people with experience think I should drop to focus on a fewer number more seriously or tough it out and try to go into all hard to increase my chances of offers (top 1/4 gpa bidding NY).

Also, I think all the high interview numbers are indicative of our smaller class size, more chances for us, and hopefully higher percentages of offers all around, good luck
Tough it out. It's a numbers game. Even though you have very good odds with your grades and targeting NY, 20 minute interviews won't kill you.
Anon from above who asked a similar question. Is this the consensus, to tough it out? Just wanted to get a little more discussion going about this with the drop/add period this week and all. The more I think about it, the more I think it would be stupid to drop an interview. But then again, dropping the 2 of 24 who are non-NYC and maybe even 1 or 2 more who traditionally aren't likely to give offers may be a good idea. Also, if I don't put them to good use, I want you guys to. Thoughts?

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Re: Michigan 2014 OCI Thread!!!!!!!

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jul 21, 2014 11:41 am

interviews are so difficult to get outside of OCI I would rather just "tough it out"

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Re: Michigan 2014 OCI Thread!!!!!!!

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jul 21, 2014 11:51 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:25 interviews... quite a few back to back, to echo some of the others do people with experience think I should drop to focus on a fewer number more seriously or tough it out and try to go into all hard to increase my chances of offers (top 1/4 gpa bidding NY).

Also, I think all the high interview numbers are indicative of our smaller class size, more chances for us, and hopefully higher percentages of offers all around, good luck
Tough it out. It's a numbers game. Even though you have very good odds with your grades and targeting NY, 20 minute interviews won't kill you.
Anon from above who asked a similar question. Is this the consensus, to tough it out? Just wanted to get a little more discussion going about this with the drop/add period this week and all. The more I think about it, the more I think it would be stupid to drop an interview. But then again, dropping the 2 of 24 who are non-NYC and maybe even 1 or 2 more who traditionally aren't likely to give offers may be a good idea. Also, if I don't put them to good use, I want you guys to. Thoughts?

As someone who mysteriously missed out on secondary markets that I'm legitimately interested in, I can safely say "fuck you" if you keep interviews that you don't really care about.

Seriously? What are you waiting for?

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