NY GOES TO 180k! IT HAPPENED!!!! (CovingTTTon does a 180! Holder wept.) Forum

[Anonymous User]

There would be some irony in Covington first-years heading to the "#1 Vault-ranked firm in DC" (as was mentioned to me multiple times by their recruiting coordinator during OCI) and riding Metro with Skadden, Kirkland, Cleary, Weil, etc. summer associates who are earning more than them.

that prestige tho

[dixiecupdrinking]

There would be some irony in Covington first-years heading to the "#1 Vault-ranked firm in DC" (as was mentioned to me multiple times by their recruiting coordinator during OCI) and riding Metro with Skadden, Kirkland, Cleary, Weil, etc. summer associates who are earning more than them.

That's not ironic, it just sucks.

[UnicornHunter]

There would be some irony in Covington first-years heading to the "#1 Vault-ranked firm in DC" (as was mentioned to me multiple times by their recruiting coordinator during OCI) and riding Metro with Skadden, Kirkland, Cleary, Weil, etc. summer associates who are earning more than them.

That's not ironic, it just sucks.

Doesn't that already happen though if you include bone-us's?

[rpupkin]

The longer Covington takes to match for all offices, the more they hurt their reputation with rising 2Ls at OCI. I would never work for a firm that didn't take compensating at the top of the market as a serious commitment, and I don't know why anyone else would either.

Not to defend Convington, but, just so you know, firms that have the commitment you seek are generally sweatshops with the worst hours. I mean, the list linked below is like a who's who of the worst places to work for hours.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 3&t=264911

[Anonymous User]

The longer Covington takes to match for all offices, the more they hurt their reputation with rising 2Ls at OCI. I would never work for a firm that didn't take compensating at the top of the market as a serious commitment, and I don't know why anyone else would either.

Not to defend Convington, but, just so you know, firms that have the commitment you seek are generally sweatshops with the worst hours. I mean, the list linked below is like a who's who of the worst places to work for hours.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 3&t=264911

But see Milbank?

Unless the culture I saw was all a lie

[Anonymous User]

The longer Covington takes to match for all offices, the more they hurt their reputation with rising 2Ls at OCI. I would never work for a firm that didn't take compensating at the top of the market as a serious commitment, and I don't know why anyone else would either.

Not to defend Convington, but, just so you know, firms that have the commitment you seek are generally sweatshops with the worst hours. I mean, the list linked below is like a who's who of the worst places to work for hours.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 3&t=264911

But see Milbank?

Unless the culture I saw was all a lie

See also Cooley?

[Anonymous User]

Incoming associate at a firm/office that pays a stipend of 1 month salary (not an advance, just a cash bonus) as a signing bonus, which hasn't yet been paid but is expected sometime soon.

I have no real doubt that the firm will go to 180k, but wondering if they will up the signing bonus from $13,333 to 15k. Am I being too hopeful, here?

[rpupkin]

The longer Covington takes to match for all offices, the more they hurt their reputation with rising 2Ls at OCI. I would never work for a firm that didn't take compensating at the top of the market as a serious commitment, and I don't know why anyone else would either.

Not to defend Convington, but, just so you know, firms that have the commitment you seek are generally sweatshops with the worst hours. I mean, the list linked below is like a who's who of the worst places to work for hours.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 3&t=264911

But see Milbank?

Unless the culture I saw was all a lie

See also Cooley?

I don't know about Mibank. As for Cooley, I think of that firm as being relatively humane. But they also usually pay below-market bonuses, so they don't meet the Anon's "serious commitment to compensating at the top of the market" standard.

[JusticeJackson]

.

[LaLiLuLeLo]

Main lesson here is that there is one national market for Biglaw salaries. Anyone at a big firm has worked with colleagues in other offices, and likely does so with regularity. It's no longer feasible to maintain salary disparities within a firm without leaving associates at disfavoured offices livid. It's toxic for the firm culture.

Covington DC will have no choice but to match by the end of the week.

I find it interesting that a national market for salaries emerged. This may be the only industry where nobody gives a shit about cost of living. I'm not complaining, but an associate in Texas is living a far, far better life than an associate in New York City.

Are you sure about that? Have you taken into account that they live in Texas?

Well obviously. That's why I don't live in Texas.

Maybe the TX associates can take the additional money saved on their $1000 rent (vs. your $3000 rent) and come up their and visit the city and buy you lunch. NYC is great! My friends up there billing 2900 hours say it looks amazing from their office windows.

Heh, I know the Texans are offended but I neither live/work in NYC nor is my rent anywhere near $3000. I'll present an olive branch and say Texas BBQ > KC or Carolina

[onionz]

Main lesson here is that there is one national market for Biglaw salaries. Anyone at a big firm has worked with colleagues in other offices, and likely does so with regularity. It's no longer feasible to maintain salary disparities within a firm without leaving associates at disfavoured offices livid. It's toxic for the firm culture.

Covington DC will have no choice but to match by the end of the week.

Why is it any more toxic than for a NY associate to know that the person in Texas with a much lower COL makes as much as him? In other industries, you can have employees who do the same exact job at the same exact location earn different salaries, but here it's "toxic"? Especially if NY associates objectively bill more hours than their non-NY peers at most firms having offices in multiple cities, this makes no sense. It's odd from the get-go to have compensation based strictly on class-year and not much on performance. Overall this seems entitled based strictly on defining self-worth relatively, which is hard to do across markets. In some industries you'd pay someone less to live in NY since it's so easy to find someone here, and also have to pay more to make the manager take a job in Cleveland or somewhere they don't want to go.

[Anonymous User]

I don't know about Mibank. As for Cooley, I think of that firm as being relatively humane. But they also usually pay below-market bonuses, so they don't meet the Anon's "serious commitment to compensating at the top of the market" standard.

Cooley associate here. I billed 1965 last year (150 of which was pro bono) and got a full market bonus, as did everyone in my group. Take that for what you will.

On a related note, Cooley is an amazing, humane place to work and I'd never consider leaving for another firm (I say this as a lateral).

[jbagelboy]

The longer Covington takes to match for all offices, the more they hurt their reputation with rising 2Ls at OCI. I would never work for a firm that didn't take compensating at the top of the market as a serious commitment, and I don't know why anyone else would either.

Not to defend Convington, but, just so you know, firms that have the commitment you seek are generally sweatshops with the worst hours. I mean, the list linked below is like a who's who of the worst places to work for hours.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 3&t=264911

But see Milbank?

Unless the culture I saw was all a lie

See also Cooley?

I don't know about Mibank. As for Cooley, I think of that firm as being relatively humane. But they also usually pay below-market bonuses, so they don't meet the Anon's "serious commitment to compensating at the top of the market" standard.

I tend to think bonus is a little different since there's more variation among firms in the first place. Not matching the $180k scale as a minimum would be an extremely bad sign and a black mark for any firm that considers itself in this peer group in terms of associate quality and competence. I have a really hard time seeing how a firm could recover from that reputationally in such a competitive market for talent and with such easy access to information.

[Anonymous User]

Milbank could've been a lie but I knew a 3 yr corp bro who billed 1800-1900 consistently and got the bonus and never felt like his job was in jeopardy. Though I also know a good amount of people who do work a lot.

[Anonymous User]

Main lesson here is that there is one national market for Biglaw salaries. Anyone at a big firm has worked with colleagues in other offices, and likely does so with regularity. It's no longer feasible to maintain salary disparities within a firm without leaving associates at disfavoured offices livid. It's toxic for the firm culture.

Covington DC will have no choice but to match by the end of the week.

Why is it any more toxic than for a NY associate to know that the person in Texas with a much lower COL makes as much as him? In other industries, you can have employees who do the same exact job at the same exact location earn different salaries, but here it's "toxic"? Especially if NY associates objectively bill more hours than their non-NY peers at most firms having offices in multiple cities, this makes no sense. It's odd from the get-go to have compensation based strictly on class-year and not much on performance. Overall this seems entitled based strictly on defining self-worth relatively, which is hard to do across markets. In some industries you'd pay someone less to live in NY since it's so easy to find someone here, and also have to pay more to make the manager take a job in Cleveland or somewhere they don't want to go.

Seems particularly sweet in TX, with no state income tax, low COL, and at least based on the experiences of friends, lower hours generally.

[Anonymous User]

Heh, I know the Texans are offended but I neither live/work in NYC nor is my rent anywhere near $3000. I'll present an olive branch and say Texas BBQ > KC or Carolina

I've lived in both KC and TX for a long time and you don't fuck with KC barbecue. IMO the best barbecue in both Austin and Dallas right now is KC style: Freedmen's in Austin (they say NY but it's KC) and 18th and Vine in Dallas.

[TLSModBot]

The longer Covington takes to match for all offices, the more they hurt their reputation with rising 2Ls at OCI. I would never work for a firm that didn't take compensating at the top of the market as a serious commitment, and I don't know why anyone else would either.

Not to defend Convington, but, just so you know, firms that have the commitment you seek are generally sweatshops with the worst hours. I mean, the list linked below is like a who's who of the worst places to work for hours.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 3&t=264911

But see Milbank?

Unless the culture I saw was all a lie

See also Cooley?

I don't know about Mibank. As for Cooley, I think of that firm as being relatively humane. But they also usually pay below-market bonuses, so they don't meet the Anon's "serious commitment to compensating at the top of the market" standard.

Not quibbling with any of this, I just really love the (somewhat common) use of the word "humane" to positively describe law firms.

"Oh our lawyers are all cage-free, certified humane." There's even a picture of a cozy little solo practitioner office on the package to make it seem like your work product isn't factory farmed.

[Anonymous User]

Main lesson here is that there is one national market for Biglaw salaries. Anyone at a big firm has worked with colleagues in other offices, and likely does so with regularity. It's no longer feasible to maintain salary disparities within a firm without leaving associates at disfavoured offices livid. It's toxic for the firm culture.

Covington DC will have no choice but to match by the end of the week.

Why is it any more toxic than for a NY associate to know that the person in Texas with a much lower COL makes as much as him? In other industries, you can have employees who do the same exact job at the same exact location earn different salaries, but here it's "toxic"? Especially if NY associates objectively bill more hours than their non-NY peers at most firms having offices in multiple cities, this makes no sense. It's odd from the get-go to have compensation based strictly on class-year and not much on performance. Overall this seems entitled based strictly on defining self-worth relatively, which is hard to do across markets. In some industries you'd pay someone less to live in NY since it's so easy to find someone here, and also have to pay more to make the manager take a job in Cleveland or somewhere they don't want to go.

Covington NY has the same hours requirements as Covington DC, and (from what I gather - it varies among practice groups) tend to work around the same on average as comparably situated peers in DC.

Moreover - there's something insulting about being at the home office of a supposedly uber-prestigious firm and knowing that people within the same firm are making significantly more than you for the same work.

It's not like DC is Texas. It's expensive as hell.

[JusticeJackson]

.

[Anonymous User]

Main lesson here is that there is one national market for Biglaw salaries. Anyone at a big firm has worked with colleagues in other offices, and likely does so with regularity. It's no longer feasible to maintain salary disparities within a firm without leaving associates at disfavoured offices livid. It's toxic for the firm culture.

Covington DC will have no choice but to match by the end of the week.

Why is it any more toxic than for a NY associate to know that the person in Texas with a much lower COL makes as much as him? In other industries, you can have employees who do the same exact job at the same exact location earn different salaries, but here it's "toxic"? Especially if NY associates objectively bill more hours than their non-NY peers at most firms having offices in multiple cities, this makes no sense. It's odd from the get-go to have compensation based strictly on class-year and not much on performance. Overall this seems entitled based strictly on defining self-worth relatively, which is hard to do across markets. In some industries you'd pay someone less to live in NY since it's so easy to find someone here, and also have to pay more to make the manager take a job in Cleveland or somewhere they don't want to go.

Covington NY has the same hours requirements as Covington DC, and (from what I gather - it varies among practice groups) tend to work around the same on average as comparably situated peers in DC.

Moreover - there's something insulting about being at the home office of a supposedly uber-prestigious firm and knowing that people within the same firm are making significantly more than you for the same work.

It's not like DC is Texas. It's expensive as hell.

I think Covington SF would like a word about "expensive as hell".

[rpupkin]

I tend to think bonus is a little different since there's more variation among firms in the first place. Not matching the $180k scale as a minimum would be an extremely bad sign and a black mark for any firm that considers itself in this peer group in terms of associate quality and competence. I have a really hard time seeing how a firm could recover from that reputationally in such a competitive market for talent and with such easy access to information.

I don't understand what the bolded means, but I agree with the rest of your post.

It's just that, historically, firms that paid at the top of the market (e.g., Boies, Kirkland, and, to a lesser extent, Quinn) were/are very demanding places to work. It's hard for law students or summer associates to appreciate how readily you would give up $10,000 - $20,000 a year in exchange for an extra 200-300 hours to yourself.

[Anonymous User]

Main lesson here is that there is one national market for Biglaw salaries. Anyone at a big firm has worked with colleagues in other offices, and likely does so with regularity. It's no longer feasible to maintain salary disparities within a firm without leaving associates at disfavoured offices livid. It's toxic for the firm culture.

Covington DC will have no choice but to match by the end of the week.

Why is it any more toxic than for a NY associate to know that the person in Texas with a much lower COL makes as much as him? In other industries, you can have employees who do the same exact job at the same exact location earn different salaries, but here it's "toxic"? Especially if NY associates objectively bill more hours than their non-NY peers at most firms having offices in multiple cities, this makes no sense. It's odd from the get-go to have compensation based strictly on class-year and not much on performance. Overall this seems entitled based strictly on defining self-worth relatively, which is hard to do across markets. In some industries you'd pay someone less to live in NY since it's so easy to find someone here, and also have to pay more to make the manager take a job in Cleveland or somewhere they don't want to go.

Covington NY has the same hours requirements as Covington DC, and (from what I gather - it varies among practice groups) tend to work around the same on average as comparably situated peers in DC.

Moreover - there's something insulting about being at the home office of a supposedly uber-prestigious firm and knowing that people within the same firm are making significantly more than you for the same work.

It's not like DC is Texas. It's expensive as hell.

I think Covington SF would like a word about "expensive as hell".

Hey you guys should be getting the bump too. All of Covington's offices are in expensive areas - I'd get keeping a place like Charlotte or TX somewhat behind (although I still don't like it from a "one firm" standpoint), but shit man.

[Anonymous User]

Texas Update?

Kirkland
Skadden
Winston
Quinn Emanuel
Weil

I believe those are all the TX offices that have made the righteous jump. Still awaiting a major TX-based firm. As of yet, not everything is bigger in TX.

Don't forget STB!

[Actus Reus]

There would be some irony in Covington first-years heading to the "#1 Vault-ranked firm in DC" (as was mentioned to me multiple times by their recruiting coordinator during OCI) and riding Metro with Skadden, Kirkland, Cleary, Weil, etc. summer associates who are earning more than them.

Those other firms will be takin uber black

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

so what are the odds bonuses go back to the pre-DPW/STB scale and this is all a wash

We will see what Cravath does there, I guess.

Also, if it's exactly a wash, isn't it better having guaranteed compensation than lower compensation plus a bonus? I mean, it's the same thing, but much easier to plan for.

Also first year bonuses would have to go to -$5k to make it a wash. Not impossible but unlikely.

The Cravath "keeping your job" year-end tax.