NYC to 200k Forum

[Anonymous User]

One other entirely baseless speculation: (9) The hold-outs are going to pro-rate through the first six months and do not want to incentive cramming hours at the end of June.

If there's one thing law firms hate, it's associates billing more hours, sooner.

If the hours are inflated to the point of having to write them off, then yeah.

Exactly. Rapid increases meant to hit a bonus target will draw client ire and also look very conspicuous.

[Anonymous User]

One other entirely baseless speculation: (9) The hold-outs are going to pro-rate through the first six months and do not want to incentive cramming hours at the end of June.

If there's one thing law firms hate, it's associates billing more hours, sooner.

If the hours are inflated to the point of having to write them off, then yeah.

Exactly. Rapid increases meant to hit a bonus target will draw client ire and also look very conspicuous.

Depends on how you bill. My firm hasn't matched but most of our work is fixed fee.

[unlicensedpotato]

One other entirely baseless speculation: (9) The hold-outs are going to pro-rate through the first six months and do not want to incentive cramming hours at the end of June.

If there's one thing law firms hate, it's associates billing more hours, sooner.

If the hours are inflated to the point of having to write them off, then yeah.

Exactly. Rapid increases meant to hit a bonus target will draw client ire and also look very conspicuous.

I typically have as much work as I can handle (and it's for a variety of clients), so it's more a question of how hard I want to push myself. I guess that isn't necessarily true for a corp or lit person on one or two matters.

But like the above said, I also operated under the assumption that some firms would make the special bonus contingent on hours once it was announced.

[Anonymous User]

One other entirely baseless speculation: (9) The hold-outs are going to pro-rate through the first six months and do not want to incentive cramming hours at the end of June.

If there's one thing law firms hate, it's associates billing more hours, sooner.

If the hours are inflated to the point of having to write them off, then yeah.

Exactly. Rapid increases meant to hit a bonus target will draw client ire and also look very conspicuous.

I typically have as much work as I can handle (and it's for a variety of clients), so it's more a question of how hard I want to push myself. I guess that isn't necessarily true for a corp or lit person on one or two matters.

But like the above said, I also operated under the assumption that some firms would make the special bonus contingent on hours once it was announced.

I agree this has been mooted by the approach of letting folks make up their hours and getting the bonus at the end of the year.

I'm at one of the firm's that REALLY should have matched by now. Folks are grumbling.

[Anonymous User]

also its gotta be mad shitty to be a BSF summer associate right now. When these kids were applying to law school, BSF was definitely above market on comp, beating cravath base salaries by five digits across the board. As of next week, a BSF summer is actually below lol

is this weinstein? I mean the firm is ridiculously profitable and had its best year in 2017

Formula comp is pretty fundamental to BSF's culture, so if they are actually changing the formula, it'd be a big freakin deal and I can see that taking longer than other firms just voting on a raise. Now, whether it needs to take *this* long idk, but BSF has never excelled at efficient internal administration/transparency (basically, if you can't bill for it, it's no one's priority). In fact, transparency problems have lead to associate grumblings about the formula system even before the 2016 raises.

As for Weinstein, my understanding is that associates are swamped with work from among other things several major trials coming up and their antitrust class action practice. I don't think they've really taken a hit when it comes to revenue.

I hear you - but it took less than two weeks in summer 2016 for them to adjust to a 180+ base model. this is pathetic

[OneTwoThreeFour]

Paul HasTTTings

[gregfootball2001]

The holdouts are running out of time. Raises become effective on Sunday. If they don't match this week they officially become below market comp firms.

Ehh, not really. In perception, yes. But my firm, for example, doesn’t pay until the end of the month. So they could raise salaries effective July 1 a couple days before July 31, and it would have the same effect as if they announced in June. Other firms pay bi-monthly so deadline would be like July 12 or so to let payroll know.

That's true. But I'm having a hard time understanding why they would want to take so long? Are there any reasons for higher PPP firms like PH, WH, and K&S to hold out right now other than just not prioritizing it?

Here are some completely wild, unsubstantiated theories:

1) Pissy partners who are throwing a tantrum in the face of the inevitable

2) Total lack of administrative organization

3) Politics regarding a fee increase a major client recently saw or maybe a new office or other big expense they were already planning on announcing

4) These select, random firms have inside knowledge that another recession is coming NEXT QUARTER and they alone will survive it by paying first years $10,000 less than anyone else!

5) Firm culture of treating associates like total garbage (which is actually my theory regarding why Cadwalader hasn’t matched yet)

6) A majority of the partners are on vacation, and a majority of that subset are, at this very moment while I type this, doing blow of the small of their mistresses’ backs

7) It’s Obama’s fault

8 ) Not enough partners have been reading this thread

One other entirely baseless speculation: (9) The hold-outs are going to pro-rate through the first six months and do not want to incentive cramming hours at the end of June.

If I had to make an (unsubstantiated) guess as to why K&S hasn't matched yet, it's because the home office is in Atlanta. None of the other big Atlanta firms (Alston, Troutman, Kilpatrick, etc.) have matched yet, and K&S doesn't want to be a first-mover. However, there will be huge blow back if K&S raises in NY/Texas and not in Atlanta. So I imagine they're waiting to see if one or more of those other Atlanta firms will do something.

[Anonymous User]

also its gotta be mad shitty to be a BSF summer associate right now. When these kids were applying to law school, BSF was definitely above market on comp, beating cravath base salaries by five digits across the board. As of next week, a BSF summer is actually below lol

is this weinstein? I mean the firm is ridiculously profitable and had its best year in 2017

Formula comp is pretty fundamental to BSF's culture, so if they are actually changing the formula, it'd be a big freakin deal and I can see that taking longer than other firms just voting on a raise. Now, whether it needs to take *this* long idk, but BSF has never excelled at efficient internal administration/transparency (basically, if you can't bill for it, it's no one's priority). In fact, transparency problems have lead to associate grumblings about the formula system even before the 2016 raises.

As for Weinstein, my understanding is that associates are swamped with work from among other things several major trials coming up and their antitrust class action practice. I don't think they've really taken a hit when it comes to revenue.

I hear you - but it took less than two weeks in summer 2016 for them to adjust to a 180+ base model. this is pathetic

The 2016 match didn't change the formula, just increased base, so it's not clear that increased total comp (idk the inside scoop on that). *If* they are actually revising the formula, then I'd say they're playing with a handicap with regards to timing. But I'm with you that this is getting ridiculous, even accounting for that.

[Anonymous User]

The holdouts are running out of time. Raises become effective on Sunday. If they don't match this week they officially become below market comp firms.

Ehh, not really. In perception, yes. But my firm, for example, doesn’t pay until the end of the month. So they could raise salaries effective July 1 a couple days before July 31, and it would have the same effect as if they announced in June. Other firms pay bi-monthly so deadline would be like July 12 or so to let payroll know.

That's true. But I'm having a hard time understanding why they would want to take so long? Are there any reasons for higher PPP firms like PH, WH, and K&S to hold out right now other than just not prioritizing it?

Here are some completely wild, unsubstantiated theories:

1) Pissy partners who are throwing a tantrum in the face of the inevitable

2) Total lack of administrative organization

3) Politics regarding a fee increase a major client recently saw or maybe a new office or other big expense they were already planning on announcing

4) These select, random firms have inside knowledge that another recession is coming NEXT QUARTER and they alone will survive it by paying first years $10,000 less than anyone else!

5) Firm culture of treating associates like total garbage (which is actually my theory regarding why Cadwalader hasn’t matched yet)

6) A majority of the partners are on vacation, and a majority of that subset are, at this very moment while I type this, doing blow of the small of their mistresses’ backs

7) It’s Obama’s fault

8 ) Not enough partners have been reading this thread

One other entirely baseless speculation: (9) The hold-outs are going to pro-rate through the first six months and do not want to incentive cramming hours at the end of June.

If I had to make an (unsubstantiated) guess as to why K&S hasn't matched yet, it's because the home office is in Atlanta. None of the other big Atlanta firms (Alston, Troutman, Kilpatrick, etc.) have matched yet, and K&S doesn't want to be a first-mover. However, there will be huge blow back if K&S raises in NY/Texas and not in Atlanta. So I imagine they're waiting to see if one or more of those other Atlanta firms will do something.

You are right. K&S hasn't matched because they are based in Atlanta. In fact, they are the only good firm with a substantial presence in Atlanta. A&B is ok, but at best a second rate shop. The other firms based there are just a bunch of K&S and A&B castoffs. K&S controls the market with maybe the tiniest consideration of A&B. But given that the managing partners of K&S and A&B are brothers... let's just say all the associates in Atlanta know that they are getting nothing, except eventually replaced by the next wave of Emory graduates.

[Anonymous User]

If I had to make an (unsubstantiated) guess as to why K&S hasn't matched yet, it's because the home office is in Atlanta. None of the other big Atlanta firms (Alston, Troutman, Kilpatrick, etc.) have matched yet, and K&S doesn't want to be a first-mover. However, there will be huge blow back if K&S raises in NY/Texas and not in Atlanta. So I imagine they're waiting to see if one or more of those other Atlanta firms will do something.

Isn't K&S typically the first mover in Atlanta?

[Anonymous User]

what's going on with Paul HasTTTings and WilmerFAIL? I'm running out of excuses for them.

[Anonymous User]

The holdouts are running out of time. Raises become effective on Sunday. If they don't match this week they officially become below market comp firms.

Ehh, not really. In perception, yes. But my firm, for example, doesn’t pay until the end of the month. So they could raise salaries effective July 1 a couple days before July 31, and it would have the same effect as if they announced in June. Other firms pay bi-monthly so deadline would be like July 12 or so to let payroll know.

That's true. But I'm having a hard time understanding why they would want to take so long? Are there any reasons for higher PPP firms like PH, WH, and K&S to hold out right now other than just not prioritizing it?

Here are some completely wild, unsubstantiated theories:

1) Pissy partners who are throwing a tantrum in the face of the inevitable

2) Total lack of administrative organization

3) Politics regarding a fee increase a major client recently saw or maybe a new office or other big expense they were already planning on announcing

4) These select, random firms have inside knowledge that another recession is coming NEXT QUARTER and they alone will survive it by paying first years $10,000 less than anyone else!

5) Firm culture of treating associates like total garbage (which is actually my theory regarding why Cadwalader hasn’t matched yet)

6) A majority of the partners are on vacation, and a majority of that subset are, at this very moment while I type this, doing blow of the small of their mistresses’ backs

7) It’s Obama’s fault

8 ) Not enough partners have been reading this thread

One other entirely baseless speculation: (9) The hold-outs are going to pro-rate through the first six months and do not want to incentive cramming hours at the end of June.

If I had to make an (unsubstantiated) guess as to why K&S hasn't matched yet, it's because the home office is in Atlanta. None of the other big Atlanta firms (Alston, Troutman, Kilpatrick, etc.) have matched yet, and K&S doesn't want to be a first-mover. However, there will be huge blow back if K&S raises in NY/Texas and not in Atlanta. So I imagine they're waiting to see if one or more of those other Atlanta firms will do something.

You are right. K&S hasn't matched because they are based in Atlanta. In fact, they are the only good firm with a substantial presence in Atlanta. A&B is ok, but at best a second rate shop. The other firms based there are just a bunch of K&S and A&B castoffs. K&S controls the market with maybe the tiniest consideration of A&B. But given that the managing partners of K&S and A&B are brothers... let's just say all the associates in Atlanta know that they are getting nothing, except eventually replaced by the next wave of Emory graduates.

Actually, mostly the next wave of UGA graduates.

[Anonymous User]

OK new theory - what if some of the holdouts just don't know that market has moved? Do firms really track all this noise that frequently?

[Anonymous User]

OK new theory - what if some of the holdouts just don't know that market has moved? Do firms really track all this noise that frequently?

This is a troll, right?

[Anonymous User]

OK new theory - what if some of the holdouts just don't know that market has moved? Do firms really track all this noise that frequently?

This is a troll, right?

Nope. Not a troll. This is the only possible explanation I can come up with. Nobody at the top has seen it and nobody underneath them feels obligated to mention it.

[Anonymous User]

OK new theory - what if some of the holdouts just don't know that market has moved? Do firms really track all this noise that frequently?

This is a troll, right?

Nope. Not a troll. This is the only possible explanation I can come up with. Nobody at the top has seen it and nobody underneath them feels obligated to mention it.

The recruiters are very much aware. This is news everywhere, not just on TLS. Even if the firm recruiter is under a rock, associates forward the articles from ATL to the recruiters as FYIs.

[Anonymous User]

OK new theory - what if some of the holdouts just don't know that market has moved? Do firms really track all this noise that frequently?

This is a troll, right?

Nope. Not a troll. This is the only possible explanation I can come up with. Nobody at the top has seen it and nobody underneath them feels obligated to mention it.

As someone at an a AmLaw 100 firm that hasn’t moved but moved last raise cycle, management knows but is “watching the market”. Likely if they do raise, it will be in August, right before OCI like they did last time. I don’t see them doing summer bonuses and when the raise comes it won’t hit until next fiscal year.

[Anonymous User]

You are right. K&S hasn't matched because they are based in Atlanta. In fact, they are the only good firm with a substantial presence in Atlanta. A&B is ok, but at best a second rate shop. The other firms based there are just a bunch of K&S and A&B castoffs. K&S controls the market with maybe the tiniest consideration of A&B. But given that the managing partners of K&S and A&B are brothers... let's just say all the associates in Atlanta know that they are getting nothing, except eventually replaced by the next wave of Emory graduates.

Yes, but K&S has big offices in Houston and DC, and other offices in Chicago, California, and NYC. They are competing for talent (and business) against 90% of the firms that raised in those markets.

[Anonymous User]

OK new theory - what if some of the holdouts just don't know that market has moved? Do firms really track all this noise that frequently?

This is a troll, right?

Nope. Not a troll. This is the only possible explanation I can come up with. Nobody at the top has seen it and nobody underneath them feels obligated to mention it.

I'm at one of the larger, more prominent firms not to have matched. Numerous folks have spoken with partners about this, usually getting back "Yeah, we'll match eventually, but there has been no discussion." We also have an HR department and a recruiting department whose jobs are intimately tied up in compensation. And setting all that side, partners absolutely read the Wall Street Journal, AmLaw, (probably) ATL, and talk with colleagues at other firms.

Your comment was nonsensical, but I commiserate with the underlying exasperation.

[Anonymous User]

Associate at Paul HasTTTings. They definitely know and have known since Milbank made the initial move and I have no idea wtf they're doing but associates are starting to grumble. We pay bi-weekly so this is supposed to be showing up in our paychecks next Friday.

[Anonymous User]

You are right. K&S hasn't matched because they are based in Atlanta. In fact, they are the only good firm with a substantial presence in Atlanta. A&B is ok, but at best a second rate shop. The other firms based there are just a bunch of K&S and A&B castoffs. K&S controls the market with maybe the tiniest consideration of A&B. But given that the managing partners of K&S and A&B are brothers... let's just say all the associates in Atlanta know that they are getting nothing, except eventually replaced by the next wave of Emory graduates.

Yes, but K&S has big offices in Houston and DC, and other offices in Chicago, California, and NYC. They are competing for talent (and business) against 90% of the firms that raised in those markets.

K&S is doing raises plus bonus in all offices. Raises and bonuses are localized (ie, full match and bonus in all offices but ATL and CHA, with ATL and CHA amounts TBD). No memos yet but go ask a partner you trust.

Raises effective July 1. Bonuses July 31 tied to hours.

[Anonymous User]

You are right. K&S hasn't matched because they are based in Atlanta. In fact, they are the only good firm with a substantial presence in Atlanta. A&B is ok, but at best a second rate shop. The other firms based there are just a bunch of K&S and A&B castoffs. K&S controls the market with maybe the tiniest consideration of A&B. But given that the managing partners of K&S and A&B are brothers... let's just say all the associates in Atlanta know that they are getting nothing, except eventually replaced by the next wave of Emory graduates.

Yes, but K&S has big offices in Houston and DC, and other offices in Chicago, California, and NYC. They are competing for talent (and business) against 90% of the firms that raised in those markets.

K&S is doing raises plus bonus in all offices. Raises and bonuses are localized (ie, full match and bonus in all offices but ATL and CHA, with ATL and CHA amounts TBD). No memos yet but go ask a partner you trust.

Raises effective July 1. Bonuses July 31 tied to hours.

Anyone confirm?

[Anonymous User]

Paul Hastings managing partner told me that the firm waited too long, ATL has now run out of stock images of people with money, and PH isn't going to match. Isn't worth it if the firm isn't going to get its own headline story with a picture of smug person rolling around in piles of cash.

[Anonymous User]

You are right. K&S hasn't matched because they are based in Atlanta. In fact, they are the only good firm with a substantial presence in Atlanta. A&B is ok, but at best a second rate shop. The other firms based there are just a bunch of K&S and A&B castoffs. K&S controls the market with maybe the tiniest consideration of A&B. But given that the managing partners of K&S and A&B are brothers... let's just say all the associates in Atlanta know that they are getting nothing, except eventually replaced by the next wave of Emory graduates.

Yes, but K&S has big offices in Houston and DC, and other offices in Chicago, California, and NYC. They are competing for talent (and business) against 90% of the firms that raised in those markets.

K&S is doing raises plus bonus in all offices. Raises and bonuses are localized (ie, full match and bonus in all offices but ATL and CHA, with ATL and CHA amounts TBD). No memos yet but go ask a partner you trust.

Raises effective July 1. Bonuses July 31 tied to hours.

Anyone confirm?

Email went to all partners from Robert. Doubt anyone here can confirm unless they chat with a partner. Lisa Keyes was copied as the contact person.

[Anonymous User]

Paul Hastings managing partner told me that the firm waited too long, ATL has now run out of stock images of people with money, and PH isn't going to match. Isn't worth it if the firm isn't going to get its own headline story with a picture of smug person rolling around in piles of cash.

They're lying. ATL will never run out of stock images of money. Who can forget this colossal shitpost from the last raise cycle?

https://abovethelaw.com/2016/06/the-23- ... -of-money/