NYC to 200k Forum

[Anonymous User]

The holdouts are running out of time. Raises become effective on Sunday. If they don't match this week they officially become below market comp firms.

Ehh, not really. In perception, yes. But my firm, for example, doesn’t pay until the end of the month. So they could raise salaries effective July 1 a couple days before July 31, and it would have the same effect as if they announced in June. Other firms pay bi-monthly so deadline would be like July 12 or so to let payroll know.

[Anonymous User]

The holdouts are running out of time. Raises become effective on Sunday. If they don't match this week they officially become below market comp firms.

Ehh, not really. In perception, yes. But my firm, for example, doesn’t pay until the end of the month. So they could raise salaries effective July 1 a couple days before July 31, and it would have the same effect as if they announced in June. Other firms pay bi-monthly so deadline would be like July 12 or so to let payroll know.

That's true. But I'm having a hard time understanding why they would want to take so long? Are there any reasons for higher PPP firms like PH, WH, and K&S to hold out right now other than just not prioritizing it?

[Anonymous User]

The holdouts are running out of time. Raises become effective on Sunday. If they don't match this week they officially become below market comp firms.

Ehh, not really. In perception, yes. But my firm, for example, doesn’t pay until the end of the month. So they could raise salaries effective July 1 a couple days before July 31, and it would have the same effect as if they announced in June. Other firms pay bi-monthly so deadline would be like July 12 or so to let payroll know.

That's true. But I'm having a hard time understanding why they would want to take so long? Are there any reasons for higher PPP firms like PH, WH, and K&S to hold out right now other than just not prioritizing it?

Here are some completely wild, unsubstantiated theories:

1) Pissy partners who are throwing a tantrum in the face of the inevitable

2) Total lack of administrative organization

3) Politics regarding a fee increase a major client recently saw or maybe a new office or other big expense they were already planning on announcing

4) These select, random firms have inside knowledge that another recession is coming NEXT QUARTER and they alone will survive it by paying first years $10,000 less than anyone else!

5) Firm culture of treating associates like total garbage (which is actually my theory regarding why Cadwalader hasn’t matched yet)

6) A majority of the partners are on vacation, and a majority of that subset are, at this very moment while I type this, doing blow of the small of their mistresses’ backs

7) It’s Obama’s fault

8 ) Not enough partners have been reading this thread

[Anonymous User]

The holdouts are running out of time. Raises become effective on Sunday. If they don't match this week they officially become below market comp firms.

Ehh, not really. In perception, yes. But my firm, for example, doesn’t pay until the end of the month. So they could raise salaries effective July 1 a couple days before July 31, and it would have the same effect as if they announced in June. Other firms pay bi-monthly so deadline would be like July 12 or so to let payroll know.

That's true. But I'm having a hard time understanding why they would want to take so long? Are there any reasons for higher PPP firms like PH, WH, and K&S to hold out right now other than just not prioritizing it?

Of the last remaining hold outs:

PH has no real excuse. Their CA peers have matched and they have like $3 million PEP.

WilmerFail has no excuse, given that peers in both Boston and DC have matched.

K&S kind of has an excuse, since they're based in a non-market city, so they have to come up with a whole new scale for the HQ in ATL. They matched late last time IIRC.

Most of the other firms have far lower PPP, or are based in non-market cities, or are called Arnold and PorTTTer, so they kind of have an excuse but not really.

[Anonymous User]

The holdouts are running out of time. Raises become effective on Sunday. If they don't match this week they officially become below market comp firms.

Ehh, not really. In perception, yes. But my firm, for example, doesn’t pay until the end of the month. So they could raise salaries effective July 1 a couple days before July 31, and it would have the same effect as if they announced in June. Other firms pay bi-monthly so deadline would be like July 12 or so to let payroll know.

That's true. But I'm having a hard time understanding why they would want to take so long? Are there any reasons for higher PPP firms like PH, WH, and K&S to hold out right now other than just not prioritizing it?

Of the last remaining hold outs:

PH has no real excuse. Their CA peers have matched and they have like $3 million PEP.

WilmerFail has no excuse, given that peers in both Boston and DC have matched.

K&S kind of has an excuse, since they're based in a non-market city, so they have to come up with a whole new scale for the HQ in ATL. They matched late last time IIRC.

Most of the other firms have far lower PPP, or are based in non-market cities, or are called Arnold and PorTTTer, so they kind of have an excuse but not really.

And you're giving Boies a pass because...

[Anonymous User]

The holdouts are running out of time. Raises become effective on Sunday. If they don't match this week they officially become below market comp firms.

Ehh, not really. In perception, yes. But my firm, for example, doesn’t pay until the end of the month. So they could raise salaries effective July 1 a couple days before July 31, and it would have the same effect as if they announced in June. Other firms pay bi-monthly so deadline would be like July 12 or so to let payroll know.

That's true. But I'm having a hard time understanding why they would want to take so long? Are there any reasons for higher PPP firms like PH, WH, and K&S to hold out right now other than just not prioritizing it?

Of the last remaining hold outs:

PH has no real excuse. Their CA peers have matched and they have like $3 million PEP.

WilmerFail has no excuse, given that peers in both Boston and DC have matched.

K&S kind of has an excuse, since they're based in a non-market city, so they have to come up with a whole new scale for the HQ in ATL. They matched late last time IIRC.

Most of the other firms have far lower PPP, or are based in non-market cities, or are called Arnold and PorTTTer, so they kind of have an excuse but not really.

And you're giving Boies a pass because...

I forgot about Boies. David B. has enough money so he should probably just pony up.

[Anonymous User]

The holdouts are running out of time. Raises become effective on Sunday. If they don't match this week they officially become below market comp firms.

Ehh, not really. In perception, yes. But my firm, for example, doesn’t pay until the end of the month. So they could raise salaries effective July 1 a couple days before July 31, and it would have the same effect as if they announced in June. Other firms pay bi-monthly so deadline would be like July 12 or so to let payroll know.

That's true. But I'm having a hard time understanding why they would want to take so long? Are there any reasons for higher PPP firms like PH, WH, and K&S to hold out right now other than just not prioritizing it?

Of the last remaining hold outs:

PH has no real excuse. Their CA peers have matched and they have like $3 million PEP.

WilmerFail has no excuse, given that peers in both Boston and DC have matched.

K&S kind of has an excuse, since they're based in a non-market city, so they have to come up with a whole new scale for the HQ in ATL. They matched late last time IIRC.

Most of the other firms have far lower PPP, or are based in non-market cities, or are called Arnold and PorTTTer, so they kind of have an excuse but not really.

And you're giving Boies a pass because...

Calm down. Not the same anon, but of course this poster didn't address Boies because they didn't ask. There's still a lot of dumb firms that haven't matched so you can't expect each post to address them all. Leave it to a Boies associate to make it all about them.

[Anonymous User]

The holdouts are running out of time. Raises become effective on Sunday. If they don't match this week they officially become below market comp firms.

Ehh, not really. In perception, yes. But my firm, for example, doesn’t pay until the end of the month. So they could raise salaries effective July 1 a couple days before July 31, and it would have the same effect as if they announced in June. Other firms pay bi-monthly so deadline would be like July 12 or so to let payroll know.

That's true. But I'm having a hard time understanding why they would want to take so long? Are there any reasons for higher PPP firms like PH, WH, and K&S to hold out right now other than just not prioritizing it?

Of the last remaining hold outs:

PH has no real excuse. Their CA peers have matched and they have like $3 million PEP.

WilmerFail has no excuse, given that peers in both Boston and DC have matched.

K&S kind of has an excuse, since they're based in a non-market city, so they have to come up with a whole new scale for the HQ in ATL. They matched late last time IIRC.

Most of the other firms have far lower PPP, or are based in non-market cities, or are called Arnold and PorTTTer, so they kind of have an excuse but not really.

And you're giving Boies a pass because...

Calm down. Not the same anon, but of course this poster didn't address Boies because they didn't ask. There's still a lot of dumb firms that haven't matched so you can't expect each post to address them all. Leave it to a Boies associate to make it all about them.

Not a Boies associate, and I'm hardly worked up over here. But the dude pointed out a bunch of other far less profitable firms that have no excuse for various reasons. And those firms have never boasted about above market comp like Boies.

[Anonymous User]

The holdouts are running out of time. Raises become effective on Sunday. If they don't match this week they officially become below market comp firms.

Ehh, not really. In perception, yes. But my firm, for example, doesn’t pay until the end of the month. So they could raise salaries effective July 1 a couple days before July 31, and it would have the same effect as if they announced in June. Other firms pay bi-monthly so deadline would be like July 12 or so to let payroll know.

That's true. But I'm having a hard time understanding why they would want to take so long? Are there any reasons for higher PPP firms like PH, WH, and K&S to hold out right now other than just not prioritizing it?

Of the last remaining hold outs:

PH has no real excuse. Their CA peers have matched and they have like $3 million PEP.

WilmerFail has no excuse, given that peers in both Boston and DC have matched.

K&S kind of has an excuse, since they're based in a non-market city, so they have to come up with a whole new scale for the HQ in ATL. They matched late last time IIRC.

Most of the other firms have far lower PPP, or are based in non-market cities, or are called Arnold and PorTTTer, so they kind of have an excuse but not really.

And you're giving Boies a pass because...

Calm down. Not the same anon, but of course this poster didn't address Boies because they didn't ask. There's still a lot of dumb firms that haven't matched so you can't expect each post to address them all. Leave it to a Boies associate to make it all about them.

Not a Boies associate, and I'm hardly worked up over here. But the dude pointed out a bunch of other far less profitable firms that have no excuse for various reasons. And those firms have never boasted about above market comp like Boies.

You sound smart enough to connect the dots, so just point out that Boies has no excuse yourself! I just don't understand why you would call listing only a few exemplary higher PPP firms grounds to ask "And you're giving Boies a pass because..." Asking someone to explain themselves for not listing your preferred example seems pretty not calm to me. Plus, there's other firms with high PPP that also were not mentioned, so apparently by your logic you're giving them a pass too.

Let's try "and what do you think about Boies?" Same team, bruh.

But you're wrong about one part - WH does pay above market for certain things like high ratings or large contributions to the firm. Sure it's not market busting comp, but then again you're still wrong.

[Anonymous User]

The holdouts are running out of time. Raises become effective on Sunday. If they don't match this week they officially become below market comp firms.

Ehh, not really. In perception, yes. But my firm, for example, doesn’t pay until the end of the month. So they could raise salaries effective July 1 a couple days before July 31, and it would have the same effect as if they announced in June. Other firms pay bi-monthly so deadline would be like July 12 or so to let payroll know.

Fair enough, although that is speculative right as we go through the time that T-14 bid lists get finalized. If I'm a 2L aiming for DC, no way I am bidding A&P or WH any higher than any of the 190 firms (not to rehash this, but even the non "truly DC HQ" firms like Skadden or Kirkland) if they haven't matched by the time my list is due.

[Anonymous User]

Dude. Relax.

[Anonymous User]

And you're giving Boies a pass because...

Calm down. Not the same anon, but of course this poster didn't address Boies because they didn't ask. There's still a lot of dumb firms that haven't matched so you can't expect each post to address them all. Leave it to a Boies associate to make it all about them.

Not a Boies associate, and I'm hardly worked up over here. But the dude pointed out a bunch of other far less profitable firms that have no excuse for various reasons. And those firms have never boasted about above market comp like Boies.

Actually though, what the fuck. How has Boies Schiller not matched yet. Why would anyone go to that firm if they were going to make below market - that's like 75% of their pitch

do they not realize OCI/EIP/FIP is in a month?

[Anonymous User]

also its gotta be mad shitty to be a BSF summer associate right now. When these kids were applying to law school, BSF was definitely above market on comp, beating cravath base salaries by five digits across the board. As of next week, a BSF summer is actually below lol

is this weinstein? I mean the firm is ridiculously profitable and had its best year in 2017

[Anonymous User]

McDermott matched Cravath scale.

[Anonymous User]

Baker Botts match

[Anonymous User]

The holdouts are running out of time. Raises become effective on Sunday. If they don't match this week they officially become below market comp firms.

Ehh, not really. In perception, yes. But my firm, for example, doesn’t pay until the end of the month. So they could raise salaries effective July 1 a couple days before July 31, and it would have the same effect as if they announced in June. Other firms pay bi-monthly so deadline would be like July 12 or so to let payroll know.

That's true. But I'm having a hard time understanding why they would want to take so long? Are there any reasons for higher PPP firms like PH, WH, and K&S to hold out right now other than just not prioritizing it?

Here are some completely wild, unsubstantiated theories:

1) Pissy partners who are throwing a tantrum in the face of the inevitable

2) Total lack of administrative organization

3) Politics regarding a fee increase a major client recently saw or maybe a new office or other big expense they were already planning on announcing

4) These select, random firms have inside knowledge that another recession is coming NEXT QUARTER and they alone will survive it by paying first years $10,000 less than anyone else!

5) Firm culture of treating associates like total garbage (which is actually my theory regarding why Cadwalader hasn’t matched yet)

6) A majority of the partners are on vacation, and a majority of that subset are, at this very moment while I type this, doing blow of the small of their mistresses’ backs

7) It’s Obama’s fault

8 ) Not enough partners have been reading this thread

One other entirely baseless speculation: (9) The hold-outs are going to pro-rate through the first six months and do not want to incentive cramming hours at the end of June.

[unlicensedpotato]

One other entirely baseless speculation: (9) The hold-outs are going to pro-rate through the first six months and do not want to incentive cramming hours at the end of June.

If there's one thing law firms hate, it's associates billing more hours, sooner.

[Anonymous User]

also its gotta be mad shitty to be a BSF summer associate right now. When these kids were applying to law school, BSF was definitely above market on comp, beating cravath base salaries by five digits across the board. As of next week, a BSF summer is actually below lol

is this weinstein? I mean the firm is ridiculously profitable and had its best year in 2017

Formula comp is pretty fundamental to BSF's culture, so if they are actually changing the formula, it'd be a big freakin deal and I can see that taking longer than other firms just voting on a raise. Now, whether it needs to take *this* long idk, but BSF has never excelled at efficient internal administration/transparency (basically, if you can't bill for it, it's no one's priority). In fact, transparency problems have lead to associate grumblings about the formula system even before the 2016 raises.

As for Weinstein, my understanding is that associates are swamped with work from among other things several major trials coming up and their antitrust class action practice. I don't think they've really taken a hit when it comes to revenue.

[Anonymous User]

McDermott matched Cravath scale.

All offices?

[Anonymous User]

One other entirely baseless speculation: (9) The hold-outs are going to pro-rate through the first six months and do not want to incentive cramming hours at the end of June.

If there's one thing law firms hate, it's associates billing more hours, sooner.

If the hours are inflated to the point of having to write them off, then yeah.

[Anonymous User]

McDermott matched Cravath scale.

Never thought I'd see the day where McDermott pays more than BSF.

[Anonymous User]

associates at firms that haven't matched will be pushing to reach the prorated target by june 30, even if it has not been set.

[NakedPowerOrgan]

22 days after Milbank’s raise announcement, 20 days after STB’s bonus announcement, and 15 days after Cravath’s raises-for-senior-associates announcement, these are the firms that remain:

Wall of Shame for Firms Yet to Announce:

• Kirkland ($4.70MM PPP, 44.7% L5Y PPP growth, 3.0 EP:Assoc. leverage)
  Davis Polk ($3.70MM PPP, 50.7% L5Y PPP growth, 3.5 EP:Assoc. leverage)
  Weil ($3.64MM PPP, 63.2% L5Y PPP growth, 3.8 EP:Assoc. leverage)
  Paul Weiss ($4.56MM PPP, 36.2% L5Y PPP growth, 3.6 EP:Assoc. leverage)
  Milbank ($3.46MM PPP, 41.5% L5Y PPP growth, 2.6 EP:Assoc. leverage)
  Simpson ($3.68MM PPP, 38.2% L5Y PPP growth, 3.2 EP:Assoc. leverage)
  Fried Frank ($2.94MM PPP, 123.7% L5Y PPP growth, 2.9 EP:Assoc. leverage)
  SullCrom ($4.27MM PPP, 23.8% L5Y PPP growth, 3.1 EP:Assoc. leverage)
  Skadden ($3.47MM PPP, 32.7% L5Y PPP growth, 2.5 EP:Assoc. leverage)
  Willkie ($2.97MM PPP, 43.4% L5Y PPP growth, 2.8 EP:Assoc. leverage)
  Akin Gump ($2.39MM PPP, 54.9% L5Y PPP growth, 2.0 EP:Assoc. leverage)
  
  1. Paul Hastings ($2.91MM PPP, 39.7% L5Y PPP growth, 2.8 EP:Assoc. leverage)
  
  Latham ($3.25MM PPP, 33.0% L5Y PPP growth, 3.0 EP:Assoc. leverage)
  Vinson & Elkins ($2.36MM PPP, 60.6% L5Y PPP growth, 3.2 EP:Assoc. leverage)
  
  2. Boies ($3.27MM PPP, 20.1% L5Y PPP growth, 2.0 EP:Assoc. leverage)
  
  Shearman ($2.32MM PPP, 52.4% L5Y PPP growth, 2.6 EP:Assoc. leverage)
  Quinn ($4.74MM PPP, 6.8% L5Y PPP growth, 2.5 EP:Assoc. leverage)
  
  3. King & Spalding ($2.61MM PPP, 31.2% L5Y PPP growth, 2.1 EP:Assoc. leverage)
  
  Cravath ($4.00MM PPP, 14.2% L5Y PPP growth, 4.3 EP:Assoc. leverage)
  Ropes ($2.32MM PPP, 46.1% L5Y PPP growth, 3.2 EP:Assoc. leverage)
  Gibson Dunn ($3.24MM PPP, 15.3% L5Y PPP growth, 2.8 EP:Assoc. leverage)
  Goodwin ($2.15MM PPP, 42.0% L5Y PPP growth, 2.3 EP:Assoc. leverage)
  Dechert ($2.68MM PPP, 27.8% L5Y PPP growth, 3.4 EP:Assoc. leverage)[/s]
  
  4. WilmerHale ($2.12MM PPP, 44.9% L5Y PPP growth, 2.2 EP:Assoc. leverage)
  
  Cahill ($3.69MM PPP, 3.9% L5Y PPP growth, 2.8 EP:Assoc. leverage)
  Schulte ($2.56MM PPP, 21.6% L5Y PPP growth, 2.1 EP:Assoc. leverage)
  Debevoise ($2.83MM PPP, 36.2% L5Y PPP growth, 5.3 EP:Assoc. leverage)
  Proskauer ($2.37MM PPP, 27.9% L5Y PPP growth, 2.5 EP:Assoc. leverage)
  Winston ($2.16MM PPP, 44.8% L5Y PPP growth, 3.2 EP:Assoc. leverage)
  Cooley ($2.08MM PPP, 39.4% L5Y PPP growth, 2.4 EP:Assoc. leverage)
  Cleary ($3.07MM PPP, 17.3% L5Y PPP growth, 3.7 EP:Assoc. leverage)
  Wilson Sonsini ($2.21MM PPP, 34.4% L5Y PPP growth, 3.5 EP:Assoc. leverage)
  White & Case ($2.26MM PPP, 32.9% L5Y PPP growth, 3.8 EP:Assoc. leverage)
  Sidley ($2.26MM PPP, 25.6% L5Y PPP growth, 2.8 EP:Assoc. leverage)
  Baker Botts ($1.84MM PPP, 35.1% L5Y PPP growth, 1.9 EP:Assoc. leverage)
  Kramer Levin ($2.15MM PPP, 28.5% L5Y PPP growth, 3.1 EP:Assoc. leverage)
  
  5. Sheppard ($1.71MM PPP, 35.2% L5Y PPP growth, 2.4 EP:Assoc. leverage)
  6. Cadwalader ($2.51MM PPP, 5.3% L5Y PPP decline, 4.5 EP:Assoc. leverage)
  7. Alston & Bird ($1.93MM PPP, 12.3% L5Y PPP growth, 1.2 EP:Assoc. leverage)
  
  Mayer Brown ($1.58MM PPP, 37.0% L5Y PPP growth, 2.5 EP:Assoc. leverage)
  
  8. Holland & Knight ($1.36MM PPP, 43.2% L5Y PPP growth, 2.1 EP:Assoc. leverage)
  9. Fragomen ($1.98MM PPP, 31.4% L5Y PPP growth, 4.2 EP:Assoc. leverage)
  10. DLA Piper ($1.76MM PPP, 34.1% L5Y PPP growth, 3.5 EP:Assoc. leverage)
  
  McDermott ($1.71MM PPP, 17.3% L5Y PPP growth, 1.8 EP:Assoc. leverage)
  
  11. Katten ($1.57MM PPP, 19.8% L5Y PPP growth, 1.7 EP:Assoc. leverage)
  
  O'Melveny ($2.01MM PPP, 2.5% L5Y PPP decline, 3.3 EP:Assoc. leverage)
  Orrick ($1.86MM PPP, 14.3% L5Y PPP growth, 3.8 EP:Assoc. leverage)
  Covington ($1.54MM PPP, 22.0% L5Y PPP growth, 2.0 EP:Assoc. leverage)
  
  12. Greenberg ($1.63MM PPP, 20.1% L5Y PPP growth, 2.2 EP:Assoc. leverage)
  13. MoFo ($1.74MM PPP, 18.1% L5Y PPP growth, 2.7 EP:Assoc. leverage)
  
  Fenwick ($1.51MM PPP, 31.0% L5Y PPP growth, 2.8 EP:Assoc. leverage)
  
  14. Fish & Richardson ($1.63MM PPP, 9.8% L5Y PPP growth, 1.5 EP:Assoc. leverage)
  15. Jenner ($1.42MM PPP, 4.9% L5Y PPP decline, 1.7 EP:Assoc. leverage)
  
  Baker McKenzie ($1.30MM PPP, 19.3% L5Y PPP growth, 2.7 EP:Assoc. leverage)
  Morgan Lewis ($1.37MM PPP, 11.7% L5Y PPP decline, 1.3 EP:Assoc. leverage)

Legend:
New York
California
Washington, D.C.
Chicago
Houston
Boston
Atlanta
Philadelphia
Florida

[Anonymous User]

associates at firms that haven't matched will be pushing to reach the prorated target by june 30, even if it has not been set.

Yeah I've pretty much assumed my firm would have prorated hours target from the beginning.

[Anonymous User]

associates at firms that haven't matched will be pushing to reach the prorated target by june 30, even if it has not been set.

Or checking this thread compulsively instead of working. Just speculating here.