Incoming Associates Getting Deferred Forum

[Anonymous User]

I received the deferral email meant for all incoming associates and asked if that applied to clerks. They are now discussing it...

Good luck, and please keep us posted...

Jesus... please do. Outgoing clerk in the fall here. As of a few weeks ago, the firm I accepted at said they had no plans to defer at this point, but couldn't guarantee anything. Seemed fair. I hear they're still busy through the grapevine. It's mostly lit, which I suspect helps. Don't really want to be more specific about which firm.

[Anonymous User]

On an town hall call Wilson Sonsini indicated they would make a decision regarding start dates in June. Our pre-Covid date was Sept. 21 - call stated that start date could be the same, Nov., Jan. or a combination for different offices.

[Anonymous User]

My co-clerks V10 firm just said they were deferring fall start dates and that this would apply to incoming clerks who have passed the bar already as well... I think many firms including the firm I have accepted an offer at will follow

[Anonymous User]

My co-clerks V10 firm just said they were deferring fall start dates and that this would apply to incoming clerks who have passed the bar already as well... I think many firms including the firm I have accepted an offer at will follow

[Dahl]

Not surprised the NY COA has a poor solution to the Bar problem. They can be really archaic. They should allow people to take the Bar wherever they are, rather than forcing travel into NY. Especially NYC shouldn’t have a new influx of people in September. We won’t be anywhere near clear of this virus by then and will probably be well into a second or third wave.

I graduated in 2010 so I truly feel for all the new graduates. Its incredibly stressful to start your career during a recession, and we didn’t even have this bar exam issue. Firms are uncaring and after 2009 they know they can be without it impacting them long-term (I remember law students at the time talking about how no one would ever take an SA position at Latham again after what they pulled but a few years later no one cared). My firm at the time only gave offers to half our summer class, just...because they could? Come the following Fall when I started they realized they actually needed more bodies and started taking low level laterals to fill in the gap. Meanwhile the SA’s from my class were struggling to find work after graduation. At least they’re actually cutting equity partner profits instead of just forcing the pain on associates like most did then.

[QContinuum]

Not surprised the NY COA has a poor solution to the Bar problem. They can be really archaic. They should allow people to take the Bar wherever they are, rather than forcing travel into NY. Especially NYC shouldn’t have a new influx of people in September. We won’t be anywhere near clear of this virus by then and will probably be well into a second or third wave.

They're not "forcing travel into NY". They've been actively urging folks to test in other UBE states and transfer their score to NY.

(You graduated in 2010, so this postdates you, but NY adopted the UBE a few years ago. The UBE has now been adopted by, IIRC, 36 U.S. jurisdictions.)

(I remember law students at the time talking about how no one would ever take an SA position at Latham again after what they pulled but a few years later no one cared).

Is that true? Time flies, so it feels like the Lathamings happened just yesterday, but in fact it's been over a decade now. It shouldn't be hugely surprising that institutional memory has faded after >10 years.

[Dahl]

Not surprised the NY COA has a poor solution to the Bar problem. They can be really archaic. They should allow people to take the Bar wherever they are, rather than forcing travel into NY. Especially NYC shouldn’t have a new influx of people in September. We won’t be anywhere near clear of this virus by then and will probably be well into a second or third wave.

They're not "forcing travel into NY". They've been actively urging folks to test in other UBE states and transfer their score to NY.

(You graduated in 2010, so this postdates you, but NY adopted the UBE a few years ago. The UBE has now been adopted by, IIRC, 36 U.S. jurisdictions.)

(I remember law students at the time talking about how no one would ever take an SA position at Latham again after what they pulled but a few years later no one cared).

Is that true? Time flies, so it feels like the Lathamings happened just yesterday, but in fact it's been over a decade now. It shouldn't be hugely surprising that institutional memory has faded after >10 years.

But they are requiring people currently out of state to come to NY to take the NY Bar exam here correct? People who may be sheltering in place in other locations? I think they should be encouraging every and anyone to take it elsewhere. You’re right I can’t speak to the UBE as we didn’t have it when I took the Bar, but if it’s that simple for people to take it elsewhere and transfer their score here, I don’t understand why so many are upset to have to do so.

It’s not like people are just now willing to consider Latham as a viable option. When I was still at a firm, one of my SA mentees as far back as 2013 had friends going to Latham without knowing it had any sort of negative reputation. People forget very quickly when things are good.

[Anonymous User]

Not surprised the NY COA has a poor solution to the Bar problem. They can be really archaic. They should allow people to take the Bar wherever they are, rather than forcing travel into NY. Especially NYC shouldn’t have a new influx of people in September. We won’t be anywhere near clear of this virus by then and will probably be well into a second or third wave.

They're not "forcing travel into NY". They've been actively urging folks to test in other UBE states and transfer their score to NY.

(You graduated in 2010, so this postdates you, but NY adopted the UBE a few years ago. The UBE has now been adopted by, IIRC, 36 U.S. jurisdictions.)

(I remember law students at the time talking about how no one would ever take an SA position at Latham again after what they pulled but a few years later no one cared).

Is that true? Time flies, so it feels like the Lathamings happened just yesterday, but in fact it's been over a decade now. It shouldn't be hugely surprising that institutional memory has faded after >10 years.

But they are requiring people currently out of state to come to NY to take the NY Bar exam here correct? People who may be sheltering in place in other locations? I think they should be encouraging every and anyone to take it elsewhere. You’re right I can’t speak to the UBE as we didn’t have it when I took the Bar, but if it’s that simple for people to take it elsewhere and transfer their score here, I don’t understand why so many are upset to have to do so.

It’s not like people are just now willing to consider Latham as a viable option. When I was still at a firm, one of my SA mentees as far back as 2013 had friends going to Latham without knowing it had any sort of negative reputation. People forget very quickly when things are good.

You have to apply for admission if that state doesn't have courtesy seating. That could be a pain in the ass.

[Anonymous User]

Cleary deferred until January/February 2021 with an additional 10k advance.

That absolutely sucks. I really hope that isn’t the norm.

[Anonymous User]

Any update on Foley and Lardner in Boston? Haven't heard anything.

[LBJ's Hair]

Clearly deferred until January/February 2021 with an additional 10k advance.

That absolutely sucks. I really hope that isn’t the norm.

Woooof...

[replevin123]

The advance vs. stipend difference is huge

[Anonymous User]

Cleary deferred until January/February 2021 with an additional 10k advance.

That absolutely sucks. I really hope that isn’t the norm.

I hate it but I'm afraid many will follow.

[AdieuCali]

Cleary deferred until January/February 2021 with an additional 10k advance.

That absolutely sucks. I really hope that isn’t the norm.

I hate it but I'm afraid many will follow.

Even Hogan's generous $25k stipend will be mostly be eaten up by its 10% pay cut.

[Anonymous User]

I’m really disappointed in the number of salary advances over stipends. The firms are already saving $45k/associate by deferring til January. They can’t throw us a bone at all? Not even $5k each?

Wonder why advances seem so much more common this time around.

[Sporty1911]

I’m really disappointed in the number of salary advances over stipends. The firms are already saving $45k/associate by deferring til January. They can’t throw us a bone at all? Not even $5k each?

Wonder why advances seem so much more common this time around.

I think it probably all comes down to firm leadership anticipating a faster economic bounce back than the financial crisis, even though it probably won’t be a sharp a v-shaped recovery.

There are probably accounting/tax consequences to stipends rather than advances, and firms may want to keep things as “normal” as possible if they see things improving not too far in the future.

Stipends may also reduce cash-on-hand more than advances—possibly because advances can be paid out of some line of credit that firms have—but idk. Someone with more insight could provide clearer answers, I’m just guessing on this one.

[Big Red]

I’m really disappointed in the number of salary advances over stipends. The firms are already saving $45k/associate by deferring til January. They can’t throw us a bone at all? Not even $5k each?

Wonder why advances seem so much more common this time around.

I think it probably all comes down to firm leadership anticipating a faster economic bounce back than the financial crisis, even though it probably won’t be a sharp a v-shaped recovery.

There are probably accounting/tax consequences to stipends rather than advances, and firms may want to keep things as “normal” as possible if they see things improving not too far in the future.

Stipends may also reduce cash-on-hand more than advances—possibly because advances can be paid out of some line of credit that firms have—but idk. Someone with more insight could provide clearer answers, I’m just guessing on this one.

I think the fact that firms have or are considering cutting current associate salaries plays into this as well

[Anonymous User]

For those of you moving to a new city for your firm, are you going to reach out and ask about moving expenses reimbursement?

My situation: my spouse got a job in the new city that'll start in August. When my firm offered, they said they'd pay for moving expenses but that logistical details would come closer to start date. The firm hasn't announced a start date deferral yet and I'm hopeful that it won't defer, but either way I need to move to that city in August for my SO's job. Should I reach out now to ask about moving expenses? Will they still pay for moving this early if it defers to Jan?

Grateful for any insight!

[basketofbread]

For those of you moving to a new city for your firm, are you going to reach out and ask about moving expenses reimbursement?

My situation: my spouse got a job in the new city that'll start in August. When my firm offered, they said they'd pay for moving expenses but that logistical details would come closer to start date. The firm hasn't announced a start date deferral yet and I'm hopeful that it won't defer, but either way I need to move to that city in August for my SO's job. Should I reach out now to ask about moving expenses? Will they still pay for moving this early if it defers to Jan?

Grateful for any insight!

May as well ask. My firm told us recently they would pay for moving, yet still hasn't told us if we're being deferred.

[Anonymous User]

For those of you moving to a new city for your firm, are you going to reach out and ask about moving expenses reimbursement?

My situation: my spouse got a job in the new city that'll start in August. When my firm offered, they said they'd pay for moving expenses but that logistical details would come closer to start date. The firm hasn't announced a start date deferral yet and I'm hopeful that it won't defer, but either way I need to move to that city in August for my SO's job. Should I reach out now to ask about moving expenses? Will they still pay for moving this early if it defers to Jan?

Grateful for any insight!

Yes. My firm said they'd reimburse (have not deferred yet). I moved last week because my lease ended and I had planned to study for the bar in my new city anyway.

[Anon115523]

Any insight on what firms that have deferred are doing in terms of benefits (most importantly, health insurance)? I know some firms like Mayer Brown have said they plan on providing incoming associates with benefits starting in October. It's really going to suck to have to pay out of pocket (as in, out of our advance) to cover insurance for the 4 months we aren't working...hope the firms step up on this one.

[The Lsat Airbender]

Any insight on what firms that have deferred are doing in terms of benefits (most importantly, health insurance)? I know some firms like Mayer Brown have said they plan on providing incoming associates with benefits starting in October. It's really going to suck to have to pay out of pocket (as in, out of our advance) to cover insurance for the 4 months we aren't working...hope the firms step up on this one.

Agree that it sucks, but I strongly doubt you'll get any kind of fringe benefits until your actual start date. Mainly because that's the default and patherns are unlikely to go the extra mile to spend money on people (c.f. advances not stipends)

[Anonymous User]

DPW just stated that associates will not start in September but no info other than that with regards to start date. There is a 10k advance

[Anonymous User]

Most biglaws haven't announced the start date yet. But it looks like there's a consensus that most of them will defer.

[Anonymous User]

Got an email from LW today re: starting the conflicts process for "2020 Fall new hires." Said start date options will be communicated asap

Keeping my fingers crossed for a fall start, but with the CA bar likely being moved to October now, I guess my earliest possible start wouldn't be until November