2014 University of Virginia OGI Thread Forum

[Anonymous User]

For those with low GPAs... (I'm at a 3.0)...

Don't be discouraged. GPA is definitely important, but it is not everything. I already have two callbacks solely due to networking over the summer. There are still a couple weeks left before OGI starts. Try to meet with UVA alums in your area!

[Anonymous User]

slightly below median here, hoping for at least 2 preselects

Jeez, I really hope it isn't that bleak for us...

It might be for pre-selects because those tend to be clustered at the top of the class. The interviews will trickle down, though, and the lottery will kick in. I think the average student has 10-12.

[sundance95]

the key is to relax and wait for the interview distribution process to finish

freaking out after preselects is counterproductive and not predictive of ultimate success

[Anonymous User]

I am nowhere near in contention for them, but Wachtell is officially in UVA's Resume Collect. Interesting. OGI in three years (calling it)

It's been a long time; but I believe some of the UVA posters from the boom days (06 07) used to mention that Watchell did resume collect back then. I think they just pulled back after the crash but they have a history of taking resumes from us from time to time.

FWIW, Wachtell will definitely consider UVA people. I have friends who were offered callbacks for post-clerkship hiring at Wachtell...

[Yardbird]

With preselects/alternates coming out within the next 2.5 hours, I am reposting this since it has been edited to reflect some of KD's email

If anyone notices anything wrong with the below, please PM me and I will adjust this post. Try not to quote so if there is something wrong, misinformation won’t be spread

KEEP CALM AND REMEMBER ALTERNATES WILL POUR DOWN AND THERE IS STILL A LOTTERY

(1) You can only accept a maximum of 23 preselects. If you have more than 23 preselects, you must decline enough preselects to at least get you down to 23 pre-selects. If you accept 23 preselects, you are done with interview selection.

(2)(a) If you are under 23 preselects, you can accept any number of alternates EVEN IF the alternates would put you above 23 interviews total.
(b) HOWEVER, if an alternate converts into an interview and you accept the conversion (see “note 3” below) and that alternate puts you above 23 interviews, the lowest ranked interview on your schedule will be automatically dropped from your schedule so that you do not exceed 23 interviews (which will be your lowest ranked preselect or the alternate in question).
(c) If you have less than 23 preselects (say 18) and you have enough alternates that would put you above 23 if they all converted, the alternate that puts you above 23 will follow the “knock out” rule.
(d) The knock out of scheduled interviews above 23 may or may not happen as alternates convert, or may happen at the end of the preselect/alternate period
(e) It is unclear from KD's email whether or not people who receive 23 preselects can also accept alternates. This may have changed from past years and I have edited this post accordingly.

(3) Historically, alternates will slowly turn into interviews throughout the weekend as individuals decline preselects. Also, previous threads have noted that KD does this BY HAND and will email someone if an alternate converts asking them if they would like to accept – he apparently won’t be getting much sleep this weekend (people received 4 am emails about alternates with a 12-24 hour deadline to accept) so be super nice to him. This also means that if an alternate would knock out an interview that you wanted to keep (and for some reason you’d rather have that interview over the alternate you bid higher), you will have the opportunity to say no to that alternate.

(4) Any alternate spots that have been OK’ed to be scheduled will be converted to an interview BEFORE the lottery is run.

(5) Any scheduled interview means that you will not have a “bid” for that number in the lottery. For example, if you have a preselect or converted alternate with your #1 bid, your number 2 bid does not compete against other #1 bids. Instead, your #2 bid is awarded more weight (higher probability of being selected) against other #2 bids. This adding of weight continues until you are awarded an interview through the lottery. Then the “extra weighting” resets and begins to build up again.

(6) From speaking to CSO, it is beneficial to other students that you notify career services if you have screening interviews scheduled for outside of OGI with a firm on your bidlist so that they can manually override that bid before the lottery is run. From what I was told, this will not “skip over” that bid, but will treat it as if it was an interview and will assign more weight to your next bid according to note (5) above. For example, if you received a screener through a job fair with the firm you bid #1 at UVA, CSO would override that bid and you would not have a lottery selection for the first round of the lottery. During the second round, your #2 bid will have more weight against other #2 bids. If your #2 bid is already an interview (or is also overridden), then your #3 bid will have even more weight against the other #3 bids than your #2 bid had against other #2 bids.

(7) People who were awarded more than 23 preselects can technically still do the lottery if they decline down to 22 preselects (or less). This isn't advisable, and there is no guarantee you will get an interview with the firm you are trying to grab an interview with.

(8) Special requests will be taken after the lottery is run. KD sometimes makes exceptions for people with a high number of interviews to special request (examples in the past have been people with 3.7+VLR requesting a firm like S&C or W&C, which most other people won't be special requesting or wouldn't be competitive for). As a reminder, there is a webinar on special requests on Wednesday, and there is also information in the OGI handbook on how to format your special request

Some other notes:
o Don't be alarmed if you have few preselects and a lot of alternates. People at the top of the class will have anywhere from 40-50 preselects. A LOT of alternates will turn into interviews. Also remember that the lottery process WILL give out interviews. People seem to usually get between 1-5 interviews, with some getting as many as 10-15 through the lottery alone.
o The averages (from what I calculated) seem to be about 23 interviews (preselects and alternates) at top 5-10% and anywhere from 12-20 for top 1/3-top 1/4. There isn't really enough data on TLS to say anything about people under top 1/4, but the 2011 OGI thread noted an average number of interviews for all students at OGI of 15, and a (contested) median of 9 interviews (see Morgan120Oak's post @ 12:48 EST). This seems consistent with top students getting 23 interviews (skewing the average up), but take it with a grain of salt - the thread is from 3 years ago and the SA market has been better since then.

All that being said, a heads up: the Public Service OGI preselects/alternates are viewable in Symplicity right now and firm OGIs should be up by 10 EST per KD's email.

[Edit @ 9:35 AM] Preselects/alternates are up. Remember, DONT PANIC

[Anonymous User]

My pre-selects did not go as planned. VLR with 3.75+, targeting DC, and was expecting more than 18 pre-selects. I got some amazing firms on pre-select, and a good number of alternates, but I guess I'm now a little nervous.

[Anonymous User]

I'll provide a data point to contrast the above poster. I'm ever so slightly above median, K-JD. 10 PS and 7 alts, equally spread out over NY and two secondary markets. I'm very happy with how that turned out, especially since 5 of those PS/alts are in my top 10 and my other top 10 bids will get more weight in the lottery as a result.

[Edit] Added K-JD

[Anonymous User]

another data point: slightly below median, 1 preselect 4 alternates ... hope the lottery goes well.

[Anonymous User]

I'll provide a data point to contrast the above poster. I'm ever so slightly above median. 10 PS and 7 alts, equally spread out over NY and two secondary markets. I'm very happy with how that turned out, especially since 5 of those PS/alts are in my top 10 and my other top 10 bids will get more weight in the lottery as a result.

Above anon - I'm sure I'm being ridiculously silly, and with alts I may end up with 23 interviews which is awesome. There are just some firms I was very interested in that didn't invite me at all, which is kind of a blow.

[Anonymous User]

I'll provide a data point to contrast the above poster. I'm ever so slightly above median. 10 PS and 7 alts, equally spread out over NY and two secondary markets. I'm very happy with how that turned out, especially since 5 of those PS/alts are in my top 10 and my other top 10 bids will get more weight in the lottery as a result.

Above anon - I'm sure I'm being ridiculously silly, and with alts I may end up with 23 interviews which is awesome. There are just some firms I was very interested in that didn't invite me at all, which is kind of a blow.

I'm the anon you're referencing. I'm of the mind that life has a way of working itself out. A wise man once told me this (in real life):

If I put a 12 oz glass in front of you that had 6 oz of water in it, how much water would you say is in the glass? Some people might say half full, others might say half empty. But what if when I first showed you the glass it had 12 oz of water, and then you saw it with 6 oz - you would be more inclined to say it was now half empty. If I first showed you the glass and it was empty, and then you saw it with 6 oz later - you would be more inclined to say it was now half full. Just like the water in the glass, how we view a situation is all about perspective

I didn't get one of my top picks as a preselect/alternate, but I'm happy with how things turned out because I started off with 0 interviews and now I have 10 and possibly 7 more with lotteries still to come. I see that as a glass half full. For people who have more, you are very lucky and your glass is very full. For those that have less, keep in mind that your glass is filling up and the lottery will fill it up more.

[Anonymous User]

K-JD, 3.483
11 Preselects (5 NY, 3 DC, 3 LA) and 12 Alternates (8 NY, 2 DC, 2 LA)

Some of this seems random as hell but I'm a happy camper

[Anonymous User]

3.49

5 preselects (2 DC, 3 Secondary Market), 7 alternates (6 NY, 1 DC)

Some of the alternates are selective NY firms so I agree this seems pretty random.

[Anonymous User]

3.42

4PS 13 Alts - my PS's were with the most selective firms

[Anonymous User]

3.2 with a year of not impressive WE targeting ATL, Charlotte, and other southern stuff:

8 Preselects, 3 Alternates.

[Anonymous User]

Approx. top 15%-

21 Preselects, 15 Alts- All NY.

Missed out on preselects for my top 5 bids, anyone know if these would be likely lottery pickups?

[Anonymous User]

3.59 (What is this? Top 20%?)

13 PS/10 Alt: Targeting CA/DC

[Anonymous User]

another data point: slightly below median, 1 preselect 4 alternates ... hope the lottery goes well.

Kinda same; 1 preselect and 2 alternates. I have a ton of mass mail out there already and I'm pursuing midwest, so I wasn't too hopeful of getting a job through OGI to begin with, still sucks. Hope the lottery treats us well, though. And there's always special requests.

[daleearnhardt123]

To the 3.75 with 18 PS... Did you target any secondary's that you have no ties to? Did you use all 50 bids? If no to the first n yes to the second, review your résumé for typos. Even erratic and inconsistent spacing can qualify as a typo.

[Anonymous User]

To the 3.75 with 18 PS... Did you target any secondary's that you have no ties to? Did you use all 50 bids? If no to the first n yes to the second, review your résumé for typos. Even erratic and inconsistent spacing can qualify as a typo.

Not that anon, but definitely worth looking into. That seems sort of low, even for D.C.

I'll give another data point: 3.75+ VLR, bid NY V100 exclusively, approximately 40 pre-selects. For rising 2Ls looking at this a year from now, I think that gives a nice comparison for those wondering how much more competitive D.C. is (though of course its only one very inexact point of comparison) and it also stresses what KD has been saying -- there are going to be a TON of interviews obtained through alternates and the lottery.

[Anonymous User]

Low 3.6x, 15 pre selects (4 DC, 1 CHI, 10 NYC), 16 alts (12 DC, 3 NYC, 1 HOU). Targeted DC (32/50) and NYC (16/50), got a couple top DC firms but they were definitely from networking.

[Anonymous User]

Just throwing out another data point. 3.0. Bid exclusively in secondary markets. 5 preselects and 7 alternates. Hoping for a good lottery!

[Anonymous User]

3.15, bid Atlanta, North Carolina/South Carolina and some Richmond, 12 preselects, 1 alternate.

[daleearnhardt123]

To the 3.75 with 18 PS... Did you target any secondary's that you have no ties to? Did you use all 50 bids? If no to the first n yes to the second, review your résumé for typos. Even erratic and inconsistent spacing can qualify as a typo.

Not that anon, but definitely worth looking into. That seems sort of low, even for D.C.

I'll give another data point: 3.75+ VLR, bid NY V100 exclusively, approximately 40 pre-selects. For rising 2Ls looking at this a year from now, I think that gives a nice comparison for those wondering how much more competitive D.C. is (though of course its only one very inexact point of comparison) and it also stresses what KD has been saying -- there are going to be a TON of interviews obtained through alternates and the lottery.

While DC is certainly more competitive, that doesn't mean they don't still fill INTERVIEW slots. They're just selective with what they bring back. Almost all the big DC offices have more than 25 interview slots, so for a 3.75+(I.e top 25 ) to only hit 18/50, something is seriously wrong.

[pertristis]

To the 3.75 with 18 PS... Did you target any secondary's that you have no ties to? Did you use all 50 bids? If no to the first n yes to the second, review your résumé for typos. Even erratic and inconsistent spacing can qualify as a typo.

Not that anon, but definitely worth looking into. That seems sort of low, even for D.C.

I'll give another data point: 3.75+ VLR, bid NY V100 exclusively, approximately 40 pre-selects. For rising 2Ls looking at this a year from now, I think that gives a nice comparison for those wondering how much more competitive D.C. is (though of course its only one very inexact point of comparison) and it also stresses what KD has been saying -- there are going to be a TON of interviews obtained through alternates and the lottery.

While DC is certainly more competitive, that doesn't mean they don't still fill INTERVIEW slots. They're just selective with what they bring back. Almost all the big DC offices have more than 25 interview slots, so for a 3.75+(I.e top 25 ) to only hit 18/50, something is seriously wrong.

As you said earlier, a 3.75 (which, with two classes of grade inflation, is probably the VLR cutoff) should be getting more than 18 PS. And as you said earlier, check for typos. Two years ago, I had a friend who was just below VLR cutoff two years ago (probably around a 3.70) who completely struck out because of a major typo. For those firms that required a writing sample or cover letter, check those too. Finally, are you K-JD? If not, what kind of work experience?

[Anonymous User]

To the 3.75 with 18 PS... Did you target any secondary's that you have no ties to? Did you use all 50 bids? If no to the first n yes to the second, review your résumé for typos. Even erratic and inconsistent spacing can qualify as a typo.

Not that anon, but definitely worth looking into. That seems sort of low, even for D.C.

I'll give another data point: 3.75+ VLR, bid NY V100 exclusively, approximately 40 pre-selects. For rising 2Ls looking at this a year from now, I think that gives a nice comparison for those wondering how much more competitive D.C. is (though of course its only one very inexact point of comparison) and it also stresses what KD has been saying -- there are going to be a TON of interviews obtained through alternates and the lottery.

While DC is certainly more competitive, that doesn't mean they don't still fill INTERVIEW slots. They're just selective with what they bring back. Almost all the big DC offices have more than 25 interview slots, so for a 3.75+(I.e top 25 ) to only hit 18/50, something is seriously wrong.

As you said earlier, a 3.75 (which, with two classes of grade inflation, is probably the VLR cutoff) should be getting more than 18 PS. And as you said earlier, check for typos. Two years ago, I had a friend who was just below VLR cutoff two years ago (probably around a 3.70) who completely struck out because of a major typo. For those firms that required a writing sample or cover letter, check those too. Finally, are you K-JD? If not, what kind of work experience?

3.75 anon from above.

My resume and cover letters were clean, but reading over my writing sample... it was not great work. It wasn't objectively bad, but it wasn't super polished. Beyond that... I don't know. I don't want to give out too much info to prevent outing, but I'm wondering if something about my resume is just polarizing. For reference, W&C, Wilmerhale, Gibson Dunn, Arnold and Porter, and a few other VERY selective firms gave me pre-select, but some that are less selective dinged me. I mean, at the end of the day I can only take 23 interviews anyway, so if alternates go well I'll have nothing to cry about, but it was a bit jarring.