Post Your Bidlists Here for Critique, Consolation & Caveats Forum

[Anonymous User]

UVA - median (maybe a hair above). looking for transactional/corporate. I've been going crazy, so any advice or firms that I should be bidding higher would be great

1) Katten- Chi
2) Schulte
3) Linklaters
4)Milbank
5) Shearman
6) JD -Chi
7)Dewey
Cahill
9) Brown Rudnick
10) White and Case
11) Weil
12) Cadawalader
13) Seward Kissel
14) Sidley Austin
15) Curtis Mallet
16) Morgan Lewis
17) Alston Bird
18) Willkie Farr
19) Chadbourne
20) Dechert

after the first 20 i cant imagine the lottery mattering (all firms are NY unless otherwise noted)

Some of these choices seem pretty odd...for example, you have Alston & Bird, Brown Rudnick and Seward & Kissel, but have left out Fried Frank.

Also, I would probably add some of the major NYC shops - Kramer Levin, Kaye Scholer, Proskauer and even Hogan.

At the very least, you should take a look at the Chambers rankings and start researching which firms have strong NY transactional practices. Some on your list just don't seem to fit with what you want (Alston & Bird jumps out at me).

yea i see what you mean, the firms you mentioned were mostly on there b/c they are less selective and i was trying to mix up more selective firms with easier ones

[Anonymous User]

What Vault range is not overly conservative and not overly aggressive for someone who is top 33%-40% at Berkeley and is bidding SF and LA?

The answer is that Vault ranges don't mecessarily correspond to selectivity.

Is there a credited way to measure selectivity, or is it mainly based on perception?

[alumniguy]

yea i see what you mean, the firms you mentioned were mostly on there b/c they are less selective and i was trying to mix up more selective firms with easier ones

I see. Well, selectivity (assuming there is some data you've seen out of UVA), is a component to a good bid list. The main issue I see with your list is that it appears to include a number of firms that don't seem like they hire all that many summers and/or are branch offices of non-NYC firms. Specifically, I call out the following firms:

Brown Rudnick
Seward Kissel
Morgan Lewis
Alston & Bird

In terms of which firms I think are the better firms on that list (or at least the firms that routinely seem to work on bigger deals), I would include (in no particular order):

Schulte (if you can get into their PE practice, otherwise they don't seem to really have a big presence)
Milbank
Shearman
Dewey
Cahill (pretty much focuses on capital markets work and is highly specialized, but highly known for that work)
White & Case
Weil
Cadwalader (despite its poor lifestyle reputation, it still handles some big deals)
Sidley
Curtis Mallet (fairly small for NYC and specialized in a few areas - has many international clients)
Wilkie Farr
Dechert

Personally, I think it makes more sense to focus efforts on large class sizes as these firms typically must make several more offers than spots to get the right incoming class size. Full disclosure, I haven't looked at NALP in years so I have no idea of summer class sizes, just going from my limited experiences as a practicing attorney.

[Anonymous User]

Above the median but below Stone at CLS (somehwere between 3.38 and 3.39), with a strong upward trend (about .3 better second semester than first). Know what practice areas I like, and which firms are good for them, but don't know much about selectivity. Are there any I should consider adding? Any I wouldn't have any chance at? Here's the preliminary list, in order. Would I have any shot at, say, Skadden or Sullivan & Cromwell or Gibson Dunn? Thanks!

Cleary Gottlieb NY
Cleary Gottlieb DC
Weil Gottshall
Kirkland & Ellis
White & Case
Shearman & Sterling
Latham Watkins
Baker McKenzie
Jones Day
Ropes & Gray
Paul Hastings
Linklaters
Allen & Overy
Millbank Tweed
clifford chance
Fried Frank
Dewey Lebouef
Wikie Farr
Orrick Herrington
Proskauer Rose
Akin Gump
Cadwalader
Dechert
K&L Gates
Bryan Cave
Schulte Roth
Chadbourne & Parke
Bracewell Giuliani
Hughes Hubbard
Winston & Strawn

[Anonymous User]

School: MVP
GPA: 3.0 (Strong upward trend, 2nd semester .4 higher than the first)
On a Secondary Journal
Southeast ties

Alston & Bird (GA)
Jones Day (GA)
Sutherland (GA)
Bryan Cave (GA)
Paul Hastings Janofsky & Walker (GA)
dla piper (FL)
Schulte Roth & Zabel (NY)
Seward & Kissel (NY)
Cadwalader Wickersham & Taft High (NY)
Foley & Lardner (FL)
Dewey & LeBoeuf (NY)
Dechert (NY)
Quarles & Brady (FL)
Baker & Hostetler (FL)
Milbank Tweed Hadley & McCloy (NY)
hogan lovells (FL)
Gunderson Dettmer Stough Villeneuve Franklin & Hachigian (NY)
Linklaters (NY)
Hughes Hubbard & Reed (NY)
Morgan Lewis & Bockius (NY)
Kramer Levin Naftalis & Frankel (NY)
O’Melveny & Myers (NY)
Pillsbury Winthrop Shaw Pittman (NY)
Mayer Brown (NY)
Chadbourne & Parke (NY)
Kirkland & Ellis (NY)
Kasowitz Benson Torres & Friedman (NY)
Sidley Austin (NY)
Paul Weiss Rifkind Wharton & Garrison (NY)
Weil Gotshal & Manges (NY)

If you think more details would help provide a better response let me know and I will PM you.

[Anonymous User]

School: MVP
GPA: 3.5 (approx top 25%) (also strong upward trend)
Law review
Significant prior work experience (military)

I mainly want DC but feel I should throw some safety bids at NYC...where I wouldn't mind ending up if need be.

Want to do some kind of litigation.

New York:
Cravath, Swaine & Moore
Skadden Arps
Paul Weiss
Quinn Emanuel
Fried Frank Harris Shriver & Jacobson
Shearman & Sterling
Proskauer Rose
Cadwalader Wickersham & Taft
Dewey & LeBoeuf

DC:
Williams & Connolly
Covington & Burling
Latham & Watkins
Jones Day
WilmerHale
Steptoe & Johnson
Sidley Austin
Kirkland & Ellis
Arnold & Porter
hogan lovells
Gibson Dunn & Crutcher
Vinson & Elkins
Ropes & Gray
Paul Hastings
Akin Gump
Crowll & Moring
Weil Gotshal & Manges
Foley & Lardner
Patton Boggs
Sheppard Mullin Richter & Hampton
Pillsbury Winthrop Shaw Pittman

[5ky]

School: MVP
GPA: 3.0 (Strong upward trend, 2nd semester .4 higher than the first)
On a Secondary Journal
Southeast ties

Alston & Bird (GA)
Jones Day (GA)
Sutherland (GA)
Bryan Cave (GA)
Paul Hastings Janofsky & Walker (GA)
DLA Piper (FL)
Schulte Roth & Zabel (NY)
Seward & Kissel (NY)
Cadwalader Wickersham & Taft High (NY)
Foley & Lardner (FL)
Dewey & LeBoeuf (NY)
Dechert (NY)
Quarles & Brady (FL)
Baker & Hostetler (FL)
Milbank Tweed Hadley & McCloy (NY)
Hogan Lovells (FL)
Gunderson Dettmer Stough Villeneuve Franklin & Hachigian (NY)
Linklaters (NY)
Hughes Hubbard & Reed (NY)
Morgan Lewis & Bockius (NY)
Kramer Levin Naftalis & Frankel (NY)
O’Melveny & Myers (NY)
Pillsbury Winthrop Shaw Pittman (NY)
Mayer Brown (NY)
Chadbourne & Parke (NY)
Kirkland & Ellis (NY)
Kasowitz Benson Torres & Friedman (NY)
Sidley Austin (NY)
Paul Weiss Rifkind Wharton & Garrison (NY)
Weil Gotshal & Manges (NY)

If you think more details would help provide a better response let me know and I will PM you.

I think the bottom quarter of your list is wayy too aggressive. 3.0 is what, bottom 10-20%?

[5ky]

.

[seriouslyinformative]

You're better off substituting Davis Polk or Simpson Thacher for Cravath. (This is for the 3.5+LR guy at MVP)

[Anonymous User]

I'm looking for advice on how a transfer should bid. I'm coming from a T25 to CCN. My old school had a bunch of top firms interviewing there (though they hire few people), so I guess that helps with the whole "oh, we don't interview there" situation. My question is, how do I equate my grades at my old school with the cutoffs and expectations for students at the new school. I was thinking that I should make a number of my top picks the firms that interview at my old school, but who are super selective at my old school. That way, I can hopefully get interviews with top firms without the awkwardness of an interviewer that may be wary of my school.

[Anonymous User]

School: MVP
GPA: 3.0 (Strong upward trend, 2nd semester .4 higher than the first)
On a Secondary Journal
Southeast ties

Alston & Bird (GA)
Jones Day (GA)
Sutherland (GA)
Bryan Cave (GA)
Paul Hastings Janofsky & Walker (GA)
DLA Piper (FL)
Schulte Roth & Zabel (NY)
Seward & Kissel (NY)
Cadwalader Wickersham & Taft High (NY)
Foley & Lardner (FL)
Dewey & LeBoeuf (NY)
Dechert (NY)
Quarles & Brady (FL)
Baker & Hostetler (FL)
Milbank Tweed Hadley & McCloy (NY)
Hogan Lovells (FL)
Gunderson Dettmer Stough Villeneuve Franklin & Hachigian (NY)
Linklaters (NY)
Hughes Hubbard & Reed (NY)
Morgan Lewis & Bockius (NY)
Kramer Levin Naftalis & Frankel (NY)
O’Melveny & Myers (NY)
Pillsbury Winthrop Shaw Pittman (NY)
Mayer Brown (NY)
Chadbourne & Parke (NY)
Kirkland & Ellis (NY)
Kasowitz Benson Torres & Friedman (NY)
Sidley Austin (NY)
Paul Weiss Rifkind Wharton & Garrison (NY)
Weil Gotshal & Manges (NY)

If you think more details would help provide a better response let me know and I will PM you.

I think the bottom quarter of your list is wayy too aggressive. 3.0 is what, bottom 10-20%?

It's about bottom quarter. However, all my second semester grades are above median (not that it makes a difference). What firms do you suggest I replace them with?

[Anonymous User]

CLS Median, good work experience (All NY firms for transactional)
Morrison Foerster
Proskauer Rose
Kramer Levin
Arent Fox
O’Melveny & MyersPaul Hastings
Baker & McKenzie
Latham & Watkins
Paul Weiss
Gibson Dunn
Hughes Hubbard
Jones Day
Shulte Roth
Simpson Thacher
Willkie Farr
Cooley
Patterson Belknap
Stroock
Dechert
Goodwin Procter
Greenberg Traurig
Kaye Scholer
Locke Lord
Brown Rudnick
Sheppard Mullin
Katten Muchin
Mannatt Phelps
Troutman Sanders
Pryor Cashman
Cahill Gordon

Man, I work at OMM and even I think this is insane. NY transactional? No.

[Anonymous User]

Above the median but below Stone at CLS (somehwere between 3.38 and 3.39), with a strong upward trend (about .3 better second semester than first). Know what practice areas I like, and which firms are good for them, but don't know much about selectivity. Are there any I should consider adding? Any I wouldn't have any chance at? Here's the preliminary list, in order. Would I have any shot at, say, Skadden or Sullivan & Cromwell or Gibson Dunn? Thanks!

Cleary Gottlieb NY
Cleary Gottlieb DC
Weil Gottshall
Kirkland & Ellis
White & Case
Shearman & Sterling
Latham Watkins
Baker McKenzie
Jones Day
Ropes & Gray
Paul Hastings
Linklaters
Allen & Overy
Millbank Tweed
Clifford Chance
Fried Frank
Dewey Lebouef
Wikie Farr
Orrick Herrington
Proskauer Rose
Akin Gump
Cadwalader
Dechert
K&L Gates
Bryan Cave
Schulte Roth
Chadbourne & Parke
Bracewell Giuliani
Hughes Hubbard
Winston & Strawn

Any advice on this list? Anything would be appreciate. I'm clueless!

[swc65]

Above the median but below Stone at CLS (somehwere between 3.38 and 3.39), with a strong upward trend (about .3 better second semester than first). Know what practice areas I like, and which firms are good for them, but don't know much about selectivity. Are there any I should consider adding? Any I wouldn't have any chance at? Here's the preliminary list, in order. Would I have any shot at, say, Skadden or Sullivan & Cromwell or Gibson Dunn? Thanks!

Cleary Gottlieb NY
Cleary Gottlieb DC
Weil Gottshall
Kirkland & Ellis
White & Case
Shearman & Sterling
Latham Watkins
Baker McKenzie
Jones Day
Ropes & Gray
Paul Hastings
Linklaters
Allen & Overy
Millbank Tweed
Clifford Chance
Fried Frank
Dewey Lebouef
Wikie Farr
Orrick Herrington
Proskauer Rose
Akin Gump
Cadwalader
Dechert
K&L Gates
Bryan Cave
Schulte Roth
Chadbourne & Parke
Bracewell Giuliani
Hughes Hubbard
Winston & Strawn

I think you should invert your bidlist. Your top 4 are looong shots. Weill only gave offers to Stone+ last year. K&E had gave 80% of their offers to Stone, Cleary 75%. Further, Hughes at the bottom is just a wasted bid. they had a .63 interview/bid ration last year. They will fill up well before you get your 29th bid. The bolded are good for your rank. I would seriously consider the order better. Look at the interview/bid ratios and the difference in the number of interviews these firms gave last year and plan to give this year and adjust your list accordingly.

Edit: I hope my suggestions didn't come off douchey- I am just highly caffeinated!!!

[jawsthegreat]

Above the median but below Stone at CLS (somehwere between 3.38 and 3.39), with a strong upward trend (about .3 better second semester than first). Know what practice areas I like, and which firms are good for them, but don't know much about selectivity. Are there any I should consider adding? Any I wouldn't have any chance at? Here's the preliminary list, in order. Would I have any shot at, say, Skadden or Sullivan & Cromwell or Gibson Dunn? Thanks!

Cleary Gottlieb NY
Cleary Gottlieb DC
Weil Gottshall
Kirkland & Ellis
White & Case
Shearman & Sterling
Latham Watkins
Baker McKenzie
Jones Day
Ropes & Gray
Paul Hastings
Linklaters
Allen & Overy
Millbank Tweed
Clifford Chance
Fried Frank
Dewey Lebouef
Wikie Farr
Orrick Herrington
Proskauer Rose
Akin Gump
Cadwalader
Dechert
K&L Gates
Bryan Cave
Schulte Roth
Chadbourne & Parke
Bracewell Giuliani
Hughes Hubbard
Winston & Strawn

I think you should invert your bidlist. Your top 4 are looong shots. Weill only gave offers to Stone+ last year. K&E had gave 80% of their offers to Stone, Cleary 75%. Further, Hughes at the bottom is just a wasted bid. they had a .63 interview/bid ration last year. They will fill up well before you get your 29th bid. The bolded are good for your rank. I would seriously consider the order better. Look at the interview/bid ratios and the difference in the number of interviews these firms gave last year and plan to give this year and adjust your list accordingly.

What rank is stone at CLS?

[viking138]

What rank is stone at CLS?

Top 29%. Kent is top 3%. Don't ask me why they have the most ridiculous cutoffs.

[swc65]

Above the median but below Stone at CLS (somehwere between 3.38 and 3.39), with a strong upward trend (about .3 better second semester than first). Know what practice areas I like, and which firms are good for them, but don't know much about selectivity. Are there any I should consider adding? Any I wouldn't have any chance at? Here's the preliminary list, in order. Would I have any shot at, say, Skadden or Sullivan & Cromwell or Gibson Dunn? Thanks!

Cleary Gottlieb NY
Cleary Gottlieb DC
Weil Gottshall
Kirkland & Ellis
White & Case
Shearman & Sterling
Latham Watkins
Baker McKenzie
Jones Day
Ropes & Gray
Paul Hastings
Linklaters
Allen & Overy
Millbank Tweed
Clifford Chance
Fried Frank
Dewey Lebouef
Wikie Farr
Orrick Herrington
Proskauer Rose
Akin Gump
Cadwalader
Dechert
K&L Gates
Bryan Cave
Schulte Roth
Chadbourne & Parke
Bracewell Giuliani
Hughes Hubbard
Winston & Strawn

I think you should invert your bidlist. Your top 4 are looong shots. Weill only gave offers to Stone+ last year. K&E had gave 80% of their offers to Stone, Cleary 75%. Further, Hughes at the bottom is just a wasted bid. they had a .63 interview/bid ration last year. They will fill up well before you get your 29th bid. The bolded are good for your rank. I would seriously consider the order better. Look at the interview/bid ratios and the difference in the number of interviews these firms gave last year and plan to give this year and adjust your list accordingly.

What rank is stone at CLS?

Stone is top ~29%. From what I have heard from OCS (for whatever that is worth) the firms really only make disctinctions between stone/non stone/ bottom third. That is excpet, of course, for firms like Wachtel and Susman and all of those.

[Anonymous User]

CLS ~20-25%, Secondary Journal. This list is not ordered. NY Transactional.

[redacted regional]
[redacted regional]
Akin Gump
Cadwalader
Cahill
Chadbourne
Cleary
Davis Polk
Debevoise
Dewey LeBoeuf
Fried Frank
GDC
Jones Day
Kaye Scholer
Kirkland Ellis
Kramer Levin
Latham
Milbank
Paul Hastings
Paul Weiss
Proskauer
Ropes
Schulte
Shearman
Sidley
Simpson Thacher
Skadden
Vinson Elkins
Weil
Wilkie Farr

[thesealocust]

What Vault range is not overly conservative and not overly aggressive for someone who is top 33%-40% at Berkeley and is bidding SF and LA?

Preferably answered by thesalocust.

Well, the truth of it is that's not how vault ranges work. There are firms near the top you might have a shot at, but the firms 'lower' in the vault rankings are hardly uniformly less selective. They tend to get smaller, higher smaller summer classes, etc. I'm afraid there's no good answer to this question, and certainly no answer the forum could spit out that your career services office and data about firm hiring wouldn't be better at. I might be able to eyeball a list, but nobody could intelligently just spit out a vault range.

[thesealocust]

School: MVP
GPA: 3.5 (approx top 25%) (also strong upward trend)
Law review
Significant prior work experience (military)

I mainly want DC but feel I should throw some safety bids at NYC...where I wouldn't mind ending up if need be.

Want to do some kind of litigation.

New York:
Cravath, Swaine & Moore
Skadden Arps
Paul Weiss
Quinn Emanuel
Fried Frank Harris Shriver & Jacobson
Shearman & Sterling
Proskauer Rose
Cadwalader Wickersham & Taft
Dewey & LeBoeuf

DC:
Williams & Connolly
Covington & Burling
Latham & Watkins
Jones Day
WilmerHale
Steptoe & Johnson
Sidley Austin
Kirkland & Ellis
Arnold & Porter
Hogan Lovells
Gibson Dunn & Crutcher
Vinson & Elkins
Ropes & Gray
Paul Hastings
Akin Gump
Crowll & Moring
Weil Gotshal & Manges
Foley & Lardner
Patton Boggs
Sheppard Mullin Richter & Hampton
Pillsbury Winthrop Shaw Pittman

Looks good. A lot of firms that might not be worth bids at 3.5 are with military experience. As an example, you might be exactly W&C's 'type' even if your grades are a bit on the low end of their usual preference.

[Anonymous User]

What Vault range is not overly conservative and not overly aggressive for someone who is top 33%-40% at Berkeley and is bidding SF and LA?

Preferably answered by thesalocust.

Well, the truth of it is that's not how vault ranges work. There are firms near the top you might have a shot at, but the firms 'lower' in the vault rankings are hardly uniformly less selective. They tend to get smaller, higher smaller summer classes, etc. I'm afraid there's no good answer to this question, and certainly no answer the forum could spit out that your career services office and data about firm hiring wouldn't be better at. I might be able to eyeball a list, but nobody could intelligently just spit out a vault range.

This is what I have. Litigation. All offices are SF if not noted otherwise. Basically just organized with anticipated number of 2012 SAs up top, because all of these firms have about 20-40 interviews and 100+ people bid on most of them last year. MoFo, Gibson Dunn, hogan lovells and Baker Hostetler left out because I am bidding them in a secondary market. Left off top vault firms generally because I thought they would be selective (K&E, Quinn Emmanuel, etc.). Not sure if that was a mistake. Also left off stuff like Keker because I heard it was terribly selective. Any help would be appreciated.


1 Reed Smith
2 Morgan Lewis
3 Orrick Herrington
4 Akin Gump (L.A.)
5 Farella Braun + Martel
6 Winston Strawn
7 Bingham McCutchen
8 Manatt Phelps
9 Jones Day
10 Sheppard Mullin
11 Holland Knight
12 Nixon Peabody
13 Schiff Hardin
14 Foley & Lardner
15 Mayer Brown
16 Goodwin Procter
17 Jenner & Block (L.A.)
18 Rutan & Tucker (L.A)
19 Milbank Tweed (L.A.)

[Anonymous User]

2.9 DCNG (this list is alphabetical, haven't ranked them yet, working on that)

Allen & Overy (New York, London)
Bryan Cave, LLP (New York)
Cahill Gordon & Reindel LLP (New York)
Cadwalader, Wickersham & Taft LLP (New York)
Conaway and Stargett LLP (Delaware)
Curtis, Mallet-Prevost, Colt & Mosle, LLP (New York)
Dechert LLP (New York)
dla piper LLP (N/A)
Fulbright & Jaworski LLP (Houston, Dallas)
Hogan and Lovells US LLP (New York)
Hughes, Hubbard and Reed (New York)
Hunton and Williams (New York)
Jones Day (New York)
Linklaters LLP (New York)
Lowenstein Sandler (New Jersey)
Kasowitz Benson Torres & Friedman LLP (New York)
Morgan, Lewis & Bockius LLP (New York)
Paul Hastings, Janofsky, and Walker LLP (New York)
Proskauer Rose (New York)
seward and kissel llp (New York)
Vinson & Elkins LLP (New York)
venable llp (New York)

[Anonymous User]

Around top 15%ish at MVP. Secondary journal. Looking for NY transactional, mostly.

1. Cleary
2. Debevoise
3. Fried Frank
4. Shearman
5. Dewey & LeBoeuf
6. Ropes & Gray
7. Simpson Thacher
8. Wilkie Farr
9. Milbank Tweed
10. Sidley Austin
11. Gibson Dunn
12. Latham
13. White & Case
14. Proskauer
15. Allen & Overy
16. Cahill (realize they are primarily capital markets)
17. Akin Gump
18. Jones Day
19. Kirkland & Ellis
20. Weil

[Anonymous User]

14%, LR at a lower T2, transfered up to BU. Basically went through the OCI list and took out anything that wasn't Boston or NYC (zero ties or zero interest anywhere else in the list). List is ordered alphabetically because I'm still not positive how the whole bidlist thing works. We get 40 bids and it's 70/30. Mainly looking for feedback on what is potentially realistic, what would be a completely wasted bid (I can think of a few already), and how I should bid, if people are feeling nice and generous. Thanks, you guys are pretty awesome.

Arnold & Porter
Bingham McCutchen LLP
Bressler Amery & Ross, P.C.
Brown Rudnick Berlack Israels LLP
Cadwalader, Wickersham & Taft LLP
Choate, Hall & Stewart
cooley llp
Dechert LLP
Edwards Angell Palmer & Dodge LLP
Fish & Richardson P.C. 
foley hoag LLP
goodwin procter llp
Goulston & Storrs, P.C.
Hahn & Hessen LLP
Hinckley, Allen & Snyder, LLP 
Holland & Knight LLP 
Jones Day
K&L Gates LLP
McDermott, Will & Emery
Mintz, Levin, Cohn, Ferris, Glovsky and Popeo, P.C.
nixon peabody llp
Nutter, McClennen & Fish, LLP
proskauer rose llp
Riemer & Braunstein LLP
Ropes & Gray LLP 
Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom LLP
Sullivan & Worcester LLP
Weil Gotshal & Manges, LLP
Wilmer Cutler Pickering Hale and Dorr LLP
Wolf, Greenfield & Sacks, P.C.

[Bronte]

.