Harvard Law School EIP 2010 Callback Thread Forum

[Anonymous User]

Durrr... Wasn't the whole point of removing letter grades to remove GPAs? If we have GPAs, why don't we have letter grades?

Because Harvard is learning the hard way that employers hate not having GPAs and is trying to find a way to backtrack without admitting they were wrong?

[Anonymous User]

Anyone else notice that HLS has official GPAs again? (DS = 5, H = 4, etc.)

Where is that?

[Anonymous User]

--LinkRemoved--

3. (a) The annual GPA for students who matriculated as of, or after, Fall Term 2008 will be calculated by assigning the following values to grades: Honors: 4; Pass: 3; Low Pass: 2; Fail: 0. Dean’s Scholar Prize awards will carry an additional point. [1]

e: e-mail ding from wilson sonsini

[Objection]

http://www.law.harvard.edu/academics/ha ... withHonors

3. (a) The annual GPA for students who matriculated as of, or after, Fall Term 2008 will be calculated by assigning the following values to grades: Honors: 4; Pass: 3; Low Pass: 2; Fail: 0. Dean’s Scholar Prize awards will carry an additional point. [1]

Dumb system. Once this becomes more publicized and employers begin calculating the GPA, a P will carry the same weight as a B at other schools.

Coupled with the fact that Harvard isn't exactly known for rigorous grading, you're going to have a lot of students showing up with what, at first glance, appears to be a B or slightly above a B average at a school with "fake" grades and the perception of easy grading that comes with that.

[Anonymous User]

To any Harvard 1L's reading this thread just know that HLS is no longer a golden ticket to guaranteed riches...even at one of the *best* law schools in the country getting a job is damn near impossible....and the grading scale was the dumbest idea ever invented if they're just going to go back to numbers...at least we get free (cheap) coffee!

[conn09]

http://www.law.harvard.edu/academics/ha ... withHonors

3. (a) The annual GPA for students who matriculated as of, or after, Fall Term 2008 will be calculated by assigning the following values to grades: Honors: 4; Pass: 3; Low Pass: 2; Fail: 0. Dean’s Scholar Prize awards will carry an additional point. [1]

Dumb system. Once this becomes more publicized and employers begin calculating the GPA, a P will carry the same weight as a B at other schools.

Coupled with the fact that Harvard isn't exactly known for rigorous grading, you're going to have a lot of students showing up with what, at first glance, appears to be a B or slightly above a B average at a school with "fake" grades and the perception of easy grading that comes with that.

They really screwed over people who would have been B+ students under the old system.

[conn09]

To any Harvard 1L's reading this thread just know that HLS is no longer a golden ticket to guaranteed riches...even at one of the *best* law schools in the country getting a job is damn near impossible....and the grading scale was the dumbest idea ever invented if they're just going to go back to numbers...at least we get free (cheap) coffee!

The bigger issue is that there is no denomination of B+ to B- which could be huge in regards to class placement.

[Anonymous User]

Yeah the "B" issue probably screwed over more people than it helped, Harvard is just too big for ITE, simple mathematics dictates there are not six hundred 160k jobs out there, and if you went for DC god help you. I even know AA URMs with 0-2 CB's....NO ONE IS SAFE

[Anonymous User]

To any Harvard 1L's reading this thread just know that HLS is no longer a golden ticket to guaranteed riches...even at one of the *best* law schools in the country getting a job is damn near impossible....and the grading scale was the dumbest idea ever invented if they're just going to go back to numbers...at least we get free (cheap) coffee!

It's especially hard for those of us outside The Chosen--too underqualified for the big leagues, too overqualified for the small-timers who think Harvard degree equals flight risk.

[Anonymous User]

"The Chosen" lol perfect term

[NYAssociate]

.

[Anonymous User]

Yeah the "B" issue probably screwed over more people than it helped, Harvard is just too big for ITE, simple mathematics dictates there are not six hundred 160k jobs out there, and if you went for DC god help you. I even know AA URMs with 0-2 CB's....NO ONE IS SAFE

You probably know me then. I have 1.

[Anonymous User]

Straight P's here; 0 CBs; snail-mail dings from Latham SF, Pillsbury Winthrop SF, Miller Nash, Davis Polk SF; phone ding from Orrick (really?); one call from a restricted number that turned out to be a wrong number

Now I knew my grades weren't up to snuff going in, but I had the area ties, and I ran my bid list by the recruiters OCS made available. On top of that, I spent the better part of the summer reading career books, researching my firms (because I read that enthusiasm makes up for grades,) and rehearsing interviews. Did the mock interview and then another one immediately prior to EIP, and that went great. So I don't know what happened.

It's 9 a.m. and I need a drink. Or an academic advisor. But mostly a drink.

Dude, my heart goes out to you. Do you have any pending? I'll pray for you (ok, I'm an atheist, but even so...).

Anyone else feel like going to HLS was the worst decision of their life? If we went to a lesser school, chances are we would've done better. Particularly the schools that offered us scholarships, etc. At least we would've done better in the regional markets.

[Anonymous User]

To any Harvard 1L's reading this thread just know that HLS is no longer a golden ticket to guaranteed riches...even at one of the *best* law schools in the country getting a job is damn near impossible....and the grading scale was the dumbest idea ever invented if they're just going to go back to numbers...at least we get free (cheap) coffee!

Haha - free coffee with a $50K/year price tag. That's always cracked me up. With so many law and economics dumba**es, we still haven't figured that the cost is passed on to us?

[Anonymous User]

Anyone else notice that HLS has official GPAs again? (DS = 5, H = 4, etc.)

Personally, I think it's shocking how much this rewards the DS. A+ was just a third of a point above A. Now it's a full point above an A - enough to wipe out a P. Weird.

[Anonymous User]

Dude, my heart goes out to you. Do you have any pending? I'll pray for you (ok, I'm an atheist, but even so...).

Anyone else feel like going to HLS was the worst decision of their life? If we went to a lesser school, chances are we would've done better. Particularly the schools that offered us scholarships, etc. At least we would've done better in the regional markets.

Technically 17 pending; in practice, at most 16 (no Quinn dinner) and likely far fewer than that. (I haven't checked my mail today, either.)

To be honest--a phrase I don't use lightly, as those oh-so-useful career books have thoroughly drilled it out of me--I went mostly because I was afraid I'd always regret being that guy who turned down Harvard.

...Welp.

[Anonymous User]

has anyone heard from shearman ny?

[Anonymous User]

Diversity, Diversity, Diversity! What a crock, those sections of law firm websites are for clients, not law students. Regardless of how you feel about AA(I'm for it obviously) just know that URM's are not any better off ITE, so any URM you see with Biglaw, don't assume it was handed to them.

I'm still waiting on Shearman NYC.....

[Anonymous User]

Weil Gotshal Boston callback by phone just now.

[Anonymous User]

The real issue here is that we had hardly any data. If employers were up-front about their standards, and HLS would allow them to pre-screen, then it would be clear that we need to have some other types of firms interviewing at EIP. It turns out that there were hardly any firms at EIP interested in the bottom part of the class. Yet such firms clearly exist, because HLS students do get private employment, albeit after a lot more anxiety that is necessary. So why aren't we figuring out how to get the proper mix of firms for the entire student body, and then figuring out who needs to be interviewing where?

Also, a word of consolation to those of you who are feeling down:

Keep it in perspective. Life isn't a game, and everyone who tries to keep score will eventually be disappointed. Just because these couple of weeks have been rough doesn't make you a loser, and it doesn't mean that you won't have a fabulous life. If you insist on looking at life as a game with a score, I suppose you could take solace in anecdotes about people who seemed destined for greatness, but have become utterly mediocre, or about people who pulled themselves up from truly dark moments, and went on to lead extraordinary lives. But that would be missing the point. You don't need to do extraordinary things to be successful. You just need to be happy and useful. You can easily be both of those things without getting a single callback in these few short weeks of your life.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone else notice that HLS has official GPAs again? (DS = 5, H = 4, etc.)

Personally, I think it's shocking how much this rewards the DS. A+ was just a third of a point above A. Now it's a full point above an A - enough to wipe out a P. Weird.

Agreed. Although it may seem obnoxious for someone with mostly Hs to be complaining about this, I honestly would have done things differently if I'd known that a DS could count this much.

BTW, W&C (DC) and Mayer Brown (DC) called today.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone else notice that HLS has official GPAs again? (DS = 5, H = 4, etc.)

Personally, I think it's shocking how much this rewards the DS. A+ was just a third of a point above A. Now it's a full point above an A - enough to wipe out a P. Weird.

Agreed. Although it may seem obnoxious for someone with mostly Hs to be complaining about this, I honestly would have done things differently if I'd known that a DS could count this much.

BTW, W&C (DC) and Mayer Brown (DC) called today.

And the award for most OBNOXIOUS POST of this thread goes to this poster. First he brags about his number of H's and then implies that his lack of DS was due to lack of "effort" finally he causally name drops the CB he got from W&C, douche.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone else notice that HLS has official GPAs again? (DS = 5, H = 4, etc.)

Personally, I think it's shocking how much this rewards the DS. A+ was just a third of a point above A. Now it's a full point above an A - enough to wipe out a P. Weird.

Agreed. Although it may seem obnoxious for someone with mostly Hs to be complaining about this, I honestly would have done things differently if I'd known that a DS could count this much.

BTW, W&C (DC) and Mayer Brown (DC) called today.

And the award for most OBNOXIOUS POST of this thread goes to this poster. First he brags about his number of H's and then implies that his lack of DS was due to lack of "effort" finally he causally name drops the CB he got from W&C, douche.

+1

[Anonymous User]

What's the point in bragging behind two layers of anonymity? I suppose I could have put the two pieces of info on different posts to conceal the possible connection to the poster who made the earlier statement, but what, exactly, would I have been concealing?

I didn't mean to imply that I could have just chosen to get DS by working harder. I just meant that I would have made my choices differently if I'd known.

Also, neither callback was to me. I'm not even interviewing in DC.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone else notice that HLS has official GPAs again? (DS = 5, H = 4, etc.)

Personally, I think it's shocking how much this rewards the DS. A+ was just a third of a point above A. Now it's a full point above an A - enough to wipe out a P. Weird.

Agreed. Although it may seem obnoxious for someone with mostly Hs to be complaining about this, I honestly would have done things differently if I'd known that a DS could count this much.

BTW, W&C (DC) and Mayer Brown (DC) called today.

And the award for most OBNOXIOUS POST of this thread goes to this poster. First he brags about his number of H's and then implies that his lack of DS was due to lack of "effort" finally he causally name drops the CB he got from W&C, douche.

+2. This guy must be in my section - i.e., the one who is bragging about his 15 callbacks and who everyone secretly loathes.