V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions... Forum

[Anonymous User]

How good do callback interviews generally have to be for 1L SA? Do they have to blow your mind and make you want to adopt them into your family, or do they just have to be chill, sociable bros that you can have a regular conversation with? If the latter, how much do they need to stand out? Assume stellar grades.

[clshopeful]

Congrats! I've been following this thread for quite awhile and I always thought you'd make partner someday

Btw, may I ask how old you are? 'Cuz I'm thinking you're not even in your 40's. are you in your mid 30's?

This is when internet forums get weird... When people literally start to have relationships w/ others..

[Johann]

I'm the anon above


Thanks for your response. I'm wondering to whom should I reach out in terms of asking a LOR? Partners or associates? How do I spot such people..? Is that recommendation based on the precondition that I do a lot of work for them? I believe we have an assignment-dispatching person who would make sure I have even assignment from each group. When should I bring it up to them..?

The firm has perfect regional reputation in my region, but my major concern is that they don't hire entry-level at all. Second off I want to relocate to NYC.

you misread vorm's response. reread it again.

[Anonymous User]

anon above.

So, I took your advice on reading it again, and still come to the conclusion that that "a personal friend from a bigfirm" vorm mentioned refers to the "friends or colleagues I make at my 2l summer firm". Or, did vorm just said my best chance at biglaw for 3L hire is nepotism.

--Just in case vorm was really suggesting that I should reach out to family and friends in locating an interview or a job, partners or associates? Partners I don't have many in my region with solid personal or familial connection ( Not everybody come from lawyer families here), I have some partners that I lunched with/ met in alumni event/ CLE events. All other biglaw folks are friends that just graduated law school. The reason I was thinking about the colleagues and friends at summer firm is because all associates there are laterals from biglaws, that means, if I STICK WITH some of them, I might get a "personal recommendation from them".

[rpupkin]

anon above.

So, I took your advice on reading it again, and still come to the conclusion that that "a personal friend from a bigfirm" vorm mentioned refers to the "friends or colleagues I make at my 2l summer firm". Or, did vorm just said my best chance at biglaw for 3L hire is nepotism.

I'm pretty sure he meant that your best chance of getting hired in big law as a 3L is to get a personal recommendation from a friend at a big firm, and then that firm—the one your recommending friend works at—might call you in for an interview. For what it's worth, I agree.

[Anonymous User]

rpupkun, thanks for clarifying this for me. Do you mind further defining that "personal friends" for me?

I dont want to appear like a bold face gunner and ask for personal favors from some lawyers I met twice for coffee. But I also dont have a too many acquaintances that have enough pull on biglaw hiring. Are professors be able to help? What about junior associates?

[itbdvorm]

rpupkun, thanks for clarifying this for me. Do you mind further defining that "personal friends" for me?

I dont want to appear like a bold face gunner and ask for personal favors from some lawyers I met twice for coffee. But I also dont have a too many acquaintances that have enough pull on biglaw hiring. Are professors be able to help? What about junior associates?

Where are your friends going for 2L summer? If they get offers, they can ask "oh, by the way, are you guys hiring 3Ls? I have a great friend."

That is exponentially more likely to give you a positive result than anything else.

[mrs.miawallace]

what does "attorney" mean on a firm website, as in one of the four categories of People in the firm website " associate, partner, of-counsel and attorney".

[Danger Zone]

what does "attorney" mean on a firm website, as in one of the four categories of People in the firm website " associate, partner, of-counsel and attorney".

Maybe staff attorney? As in someone that is not partner track.

[Anonymous User]

rpupkun, thanks for clarifying this for me. Do you mind further defining that "personal friends" for me?

I dont want to appear like a bold face gunner and ask for personal favors from some lawyers I met twice for coffee. But I also dont have a too many acquaintances that have enough pull on biglaw hiring. Are professors be able to help? What about junior associates?

Where are your friends going for 2L summer? If they get offers, they can ask "oh, by the way, are you guys hiring 3Ls? I have a great friend."

That is exponentially more likely to give you a positive result than anything else.

Original Anon - This is exactly how I switched firms as a 3L. I managed to get 5 callbacks at the exact firms I was targeting simply because I reached out to someone I knew who had summered there. Send your friend a resume + transcript, provide a coherent reason you want to switch (practice area, geography, etc.), and have them forward your stuff to the recruiter.

The fact you thought OP told you to give a firm a LOR from someone they don't know, and equated what I just described above as "nepotism" makes me worry that you don't "get it.' This is the best way to differentiate yourself from the hordes of desperate 3Ls flooding firms with apps. You need to skip the pile. Good luck.

[SplitMyPants]

How good do callback interviews generally have to be for 1L SA? Do they have to blow your mind and make you want to adopt them into your family, or do they just have to be chill, sociable bros that you can have a regular conversation with? If the latter, how much do they need to stand out? Assume stellar grades.

Are you gay, URM, or IP? Bonus points for all three plus female.

[Anonymous User]

Original Anon above here.
How strong of a boost is a State Supreme Court post-grad Clerkship in terms of 3L hiring? a lot of big firms in my region love clerks and offer bonuses for all clerks for Federal DIs ct // COA and State supreme courts. How much does the region ofthe state matter to their decision in terms of the clerk-hiring? The state I'm applying is still in the general region (NEW ENGLAND) but a smaller, less competitive state.

I'm definitely gonna reach out to my friends in big laws, perhaps I'm not gonna do that to a lot of firms, just a couple of firms that I do love.I will ask 1st-3rd year associate,and reach out to more experienced attorneys who are not onthe hiring committee but have the same level of intimacy with me. (intimacy lol)

[Anonymous User]

How good do callback interviews generally have to be for 1L SA? Do they have to blow your mind and make you want to adopt them into your family, or do they just have to be chill, sociable bros that you can have a regular conversation with? If the latter, how much do they need to stand out? Assume stellar grades.

Are you gay, URM, or IP? Bonus points for all three plus female.

Only diversity pts are non-URM minority such as Indian, Asian Pacific, etc. with a hard science bachelor, so I qualify for IP but just barely. Single digit class rank at a T20. Just recently sent out apps for 1L LCLD. If no ties, am I out no matter what? If no ties required, such as NYC, do I just have to not asp out, or do I have to for srs impress.

For itbvdorm: From a biglaw hiring committee's point of view, should I transfer? Is top of the class at a T20 enough, or does prestige matter that much? Is it worth it to transfer to HYS, or even CCN, if the goal is bigasslaw? Also, what about boutique appellate law? Is Yale Law Review necessary for that.

[itbdvorm]

Original Anon above here.
How strong of a boost is a State Supreme Court post-grad Clerkship in terms of 3L hiring? a lot of big firms in my region love clerks and offer bonuses for all clerks for Federal DIs ct // COA and State supreme courts. How much does the region ofthe state matter to their decision in terms of the clerk-hiring? The state I'm applying is still in the general region (NEW ENGLAND) but a smaller, less competitive state.

I'm definitely gonna reach out to my friends in big laws, perhaps I'm not gonna do that to a lot of firms, just a couple of firms that I do love.I will ask 1st-3rd year associate,and reach out to more experienced attorneys who are not onthe hiring committee but have the same level of intimacy with me. (intimacy lol)

Really don't know about this - going to be very firm specific. But I would generally suspect that a state supreme court clerkship is substantially less interesting as you get further away from a firm that has a substantial appellate practice in that state. District court clerkship will generally be much more interesting to big firms.

[itbdvorm]

How good do callback interviews generally have to be for 1L SA? Do they have to blow your mind and make you want to adopt them into your family, or do they just have to be chill, sociable bros that you can have a regular conversation with? If the latter, how much do they need to stand out? Assume stellar grades.

Are you gay, URM, or IP? Bonus points for all three plus female.

Only diversity pts are non-URM minority such as Indian, Asian Pacific, etc. with a hard science bachelor, so I qualify for IP but just barely. Single digit class rank at a T20. Just recently sent out apps for 1L LCLD. If no ties, am I out no matter what? If no ties required, such as NYC, do I just have to not asp out, or do I have to for srs impress.

For itbvdorm: From a biglaw hiring committee's point of view, should I transfer? Is top of the class at a T20 enough, or does prestige matter that much? Is it worth it to transfer to HYS, or even CCN, if the goal is bigasslaw? Also, what about boutique appellate law? Is Yale Law Review necessary for that.

I generally discourage transfers from the top, for whatever it's worth. In my view transfers go from competing against a small circle at their old school, which is going to be 100% behind you getting a great job, clerkship, etc., to competing against a huge circle at their new school. If people from your school are getting biglaw jobs, then you will be one of them.

Clerkships will be more important than what law review you're on (and it's Yale Law Journal). If you can get a professor to fully back you to get a great clerkship from your school you will be more than fine

[sox49]

I'm a 0L likely going to a top 25 this fall with a sub 3 undergrad gpa. I'll be 34 when I graduate. I worked as a legislative assistant for a state representative right outta school but left it to play music. I meandered for a while and ended up in restaurants, eventually serving and then managing in serious fine dining (award winning but not Michelin stars). I left that last summer to work as a legal assistant in small law.

I know I can make a good argument about the value of this experience and why law in any oci interviews I get, but how much is it going to hurt me in both screening and the interviews and how much can grades/personality make up for it?

Thank you!

[smaug]

I'm a 0L likely going to a top 25 this fall with a sub 3 undergrad gpa. I'll be 34 when I graduate. I worked as a legislative assistant for a state representative right outta school but left it to play music. I meandered for a while and ended up in restaurants, eventually serving and then managing in serious fine dining (award winning but not Michelin stars). I left that last summer to work as a legal assistant in small law.

I know I can make a good argument about the value of this experience and why law in any oci interviews I get, but how much is it going to hurt me in both screening and the interviews and how much can grades/personality make up for it?

Thank you!

Hey. Hey you. Don't go to law school. [sorry, this is egregious enough that I thought I should comment. I'm not going to derail this lovely thread with this, but seriously, don't go to law school.]

[jbagelboy]

I'm a 0L likely going to a top 25 this fall with a sub 3 undergrad gpa. I'll be 34 when I graduate. I worked as a legislative assistant for a state representative right outta school but left it to play music. I meandered for a while and ended up in restaurants, eventually serving and then managing in serious fine dining (award winning but not Michelin stars). I left that last summer to work as a legal assistant in small law.

I know I can make a good argument about the value of this experience and why law in any oci interviews I get, but how much is it going to hurt me in both screening and the interviews and how much can grades/personality make up for it?

Thank you!

Hey. Hey you. Don't go to law school. [sorry, this is egregious enough that I thought I should comment. I'm not going to derail this lovely thread with this, but seriously, don't go to law school.]

+1

[Danger Zone]

I'm a 0L likely going to a top 25 this fall with a sub 3 undergrad gpa. I'll be 34 when I graduate. I worked as a legislative assistant for a state representative right outta school but left it to play music. I meandered for a while and ended up in restaurants, eventually serving and then managing in serious fine dining (award winning but not Michelin stars). I left that last summer to work as a legal assistant in small law.

I know I can make a good argument about the value of this experience and why law in any oci interviews I get, but how much is it going to hurt me in both screening and the interviews and how much can grades/personality make up for it?

Thank you!

Hey. Hey you. Don't go to law school. [sorry, this is egregious enough that I thought I should comment. I'm not going to derail this lovely thread with this, but seriously, don't go to law school.]

+1

[itbdvorm]

I'm a 0L likely going to a top 25 this fall with a sub 3 undergrad gpa. I'll be 34 when I graduate. I worked as a legislative assistant for a state representative right outta school but left it to play music. I meandered for a while and ended up in restaurants, eventually serving and then managing in serious fine dining (award winning but not Michelin stars). I left that last summer to work as a legal assistant in small law.

I know I can make a good argument about the value of this experience and why law in any oci interviews I get, but how much is it going to hurt me in both screening and the interviews and how much can grades/personality make up for it?

Thank you!

Hey. Hey you. Don't go to law school. [sorry, this is egregious enough that I thought I should comment. I'm not going to derail this lovely thread with this, but seriously, don't go to law school.]

So, I don't know whether or not I agree with this advice...but I don't actively disagree.

Big question for you is why you're going, and can you afford the debt.

Based upon the above, I would suggest there is a very real possibility you strike out in big law, meaning you will be a 34-y.o. w/massive debt and no realistic way to pay it off.

What is your target? Why are you going now?

[itbdvorm]

How good do callback interviews generally have to be for 1L SA? Do they have to blow your mind and make you want to adopt them into your family, or do they just have to be chill, sociable bros that you can have a regular conversation with? If the latter, how much do they need to stand out? Assume stellar grades.

Realize I don't think I replied to this original one - I would say generally I think the 1L SA burden is a high one. I don't think we generally hire them (excluding SEO and/or other unusual circumstances). If sufficiently stellar grades, though, I think you've got a shot

[nextstep2016]

OP, to the extent your firm takes laterals (at the early midlevel or so), how are they viewed? At my firm in my dept I notice the laterals seem to be permanently stuck in a second class role (not that I support this, just observing it) where homegrown associates with far less seniority are given more responsibility. I am wondering whether this is common or if at other firms laterals are at least given a shot to show they're as good as the homegrown associates.

PS I am not talking about laterals brought on as 6th years where all involved understand that the plan is to make the person a partner assuming a couple years of good work....I'm thinking like lateraling as a third year.

[itbdvorm]

OP, to the extent your firm takes laterals (at the early midlevel or so), how are they viewed? At my firm in my dept I notice the laterals seem to be permanently stuck in a second class role (not that I support this, just observing it) where homegrown associates with far less seniority are given more responsibility. I am wondering whether this is common or if at other firms laterals are at least given a shot to show they're as good as the homegrown associates.

PS I am not talking about laterals brought on as 6th years where all involved understand that the plan is to make the person a partner assuming a couple years of good work....I'm thinking like lateraling as a third year.

I think everyone is likely viewed with a grain of salt for a little bit, but certainly not a permanent second class situation. More like "let's see what this person can do" and then treated accordingly.

[PeanutsNJam]

Just sayin thanks for taking the time to do this; this thread is very helpful. For others: I think firm hiring is really idiosyncratic, so I doubt itbdvorm's thoughts and ideas apply everywhere.

My q: 2 spaces after periods, or 1? And what are a few things you wished all your summer and junior associates knew?

[Anonymous User]

How important are grades to getting a CB? 1L T1 25%. Did Spring OCI. Interview went okay, but mostly me asking questions. Someone else in my section said it went the same. He got a CB, I did not. I have 4+ years of work experience. He has none. Just confused.