NY GOES TO 180k! IT HAPPENED!!!! (CovingTTTon does a 180! Holder wept.) Forum

[Anonymous User]

Poof

[Anonymous User]

Covington is planning to match for NY only

Thoughts on how this will affect national firms with DC offices (GDC, Latham, Kirkland, Sidley, etc.)? I can't imagine that Covington wouldn't match if those firms did.

Weil, PW, and Cleary already did it in D.C., basically ensuring that S&C, STB, and DPW will follow suit. Skadden and Latham are in that same realm, so they probably follow too, though their insane headcounts makes them not the slam-dunk-sure-thing that the others are. Kirkland loves to poach from those firms and so they're basically locked in to following suit or they're going to have a lot of pissed off defectors in their ranks that started off at the 180 nationwide firms.

I also think Gibson has to join the Fray. They've been so super profitable over the last 5-6 years they've gotta share the wealth, and their D.C. office is arguably their strongest.

Long story short, with all of those D.C. offices paying 180, Covington is going to be at a serious disadvantage recruiting in its hometown if they don't follow. Maybe they draw the line and just accept that they'll now be recruiting on a tier below, even in D.C., but I doubt it. With Covington comes A&P, Wilmer, and Hogan. The timing does suck for the Cov and A&P partnerships though, having to dig deep for across the board salary bumps right after both firms just splashed out some serious cash on fancy new offices.

Probably right. A few more DC offices need to hit before Covington will feel the need to match.

Also to you people getting ready to OCI - get their attention through recruiting. If a firm doesn't match and you have options of those that do - make them feel it.

[imalreadyamember?]

Why is ATL acting like it's not a sure thing class of 2016 would be on the new pay scale?

At the time of its announcement, Paul Weiss was the only firm to explicitly state that incoming associates in Class of 2016 would see their base salaries raised to $180,000. . .

After we noted that Paul Weiss specifically mentioned salaries for incoming associates, we received a flood of emails from members of the Class of 2016. Prior to the Paul Weiss announcement, it had been largely assumed that other firms, including Cravath, would reward their incoming associates with the $180,000 salary scale, especially given the July 1, 2016, effective date of the pay raise. Nevertheless, people began to worry that their firms would not increase their pay, perhaps forcing them to remain on the $160,000 salary scale since they’d already signed their employment contracts . . .

What is your firm doing for summer associates and incoming associates in the Class of 2016? Do you want your firm to be known as a market leader or a market loser?

The ATL argument ends on a cliff. It would be crazy for class of 2016 (incoming associates) to not be on the new scale right?

http://abovethelaw.com/2016/06/ny-to-18 ... ssociates/

It would make absolutely no sense for incoming associates to be stuck on the old scale. If that were true, then every other year should be stuck on the old scale too, and only new hires would get the new salary (which makes 0 sense as well). If they only kept incoming associates to the old scale, then after a year they would make less than their inferiors.

Look, we got fucked with student loans because rates are lower before AND after our time in law school so I'm not gonna say it's impossible that we'd get fucked like this too, but it absolutely would not make sense to bump everybody EXCEPT the incoming associates. And ATL needs to maybe think for a sec before it makes it a thing.

[Wolfpac2]

Covington is planning to match for NY only

I do not believe... it makes no sense.

[Anonymous User]

So CovingTTTon is paying their first year associates 40K less than W&C?

[Anonymous User]

Covington is planning to match for NY only

I do not believe... it makes no sense.

They've done shit like that with bonuses in the past (paid NYC associates NY market and DC/other offices significantly less).

[Anonymous User]

So CovingTTTon is paying their first year associates 40K less than W&C?

I mean to be fair, if W&C doesn't up their scale they will be paying mid-level and senior associates a good deal less than GDC, Skadden, etc. (incl. bonus).

[Anonymous User]

Covington views itself as a DC firm that has some offices elsewhere, and views those other firms mentioned as NY firms that have DC offices. It evidently doesn't view it as setting a "DC market" salary if the NY firms also happen to bump up their DC salaries. It will take a "DC firm" raising DC salaries for Covington to be convinced that 180k is "DC market."

This doesn't reflect how associates and law students view things -- for them, Covington and the DC offices of Kirkland or Cleary or whatever are peers, more or less -- but it does reflect the economic reality that the DC based firms are less profitable and have more DC associates, so raising DC salaries will be a bigger hit for them.

Inevitably a bad move for recruiting but you can see the $$ justification.

[Anonymous User]

Simpson matched.

[Actus Reus]

STB match. COME AT US ATL.

[smaug]

Simpson matched.

The bastards

[jbagelboy]

Simpson matched.

All offices im assuming

[smaug]

STB associates had ONE JOB

[Anonymous User]

Simpson matched.

All offices im assuming

All offices worldwide. July 15 start.

[NakedPowerOrgan]

Simpson matched.

All offices im assuming

All offices worldwide. July 15 start.

July 15 is the first paycheck reflecting the raise, or the raise is effective as of July 15? I think everybody else has done the former.

[lhanvt13]

STB associates had ONE JOB

Shame

[2014]

There's zero percent chance it isn't effective July 1. I'm sure it's the same "this will be reflected in your July 15 check" that other firms memos had.

[Anonymous User]

Covington is planning to match for NY only

I do not believe... it makes no sense.

They've done shit like that with bonuses in the past (paid NYC associates NY market and DC/other offices significantly less).

True, but there was major grumbling among the ranks and Covington has since reversed their position and now offers market bonuses.

Besides, there seems to be a pretty big difference between market salaries and market bonuses.

[Anonymous User]

Simpson matched.

All offices im assuming

All offices worldwide. July 15 start.

July 15 is the first paycheck reflecting the raise, or the raise is effective as of July 15? I think everybody else has done the former.

First paycheck. STB pays on the 15th and 30th of each month, so it's effective July 1.

[Anonymous User]

Covington is planning to match for NY only

I do not believe... it makes no sense.

They've done shit like that with bonuses in the past (paid NYC associates NY market and DC/other offices significantly less).

True, but there was major grumbling among the ranks and Covington has since reversed their position and now offers market bonuses.

Besides, there seems to be a pretty big difference between market salaries and market bonuses.

Oh I agree. I think this is more of a case of Covington playing coy rather than not getting with it. They're not a first-mover type firm. It's probably going to take national firms with large offices in DC (like Gibson, for instance) to force Covington to move.

[Actus Reus]

Covington's egregious memo:

"We are aware of the recent announcement by several New York based firms that they are increasing their associate salary scale. At this point, our view is that this increase in NY salaries does not reflect the prevailing market in Washington or other cities outside New York. Traditionally, associate salaries in New York have been somewhat higher than in other markets around the country..."

bla bla bla.

They are only increasing in NY.

[Anonymous User]

Cahill summer pay increase to $3,500 a week. Another day, another internal memo snapchat.

[mushybrain]

haha well of course it doesn't reflect the prevailing market, the bump just started on Monday.

[Anonymous User]

Covington views itself as a DC firm that has some offices elsewhere, and views those other firms mentioned as NY firms that have DC offices. It evidently doesn't view it as setting a "DC market" salary if the NY firms also happen to bump up their DC salaries. It will take a "DC firm" raising DC salaries for Covington to be convinced that 180k is "DC market."

This doesn't reflect how associates and law students view things -- for them, Covington and the DC offices of Kirkland or Cleary or whatever are peers, more or less -- but it does reflect the economic reality that the DC based firms are less profitable and have more DC associates, so raising DC salaries will be a bigger hit for them.

Inevitably a bad move for recruiting but you can see the $$ justification.

WilmerHale is DC-based (essentially, along with Boston) with a big, growing NY office and I would be surprised if they didn't match for at LEAST NY/DC/Boston. If they don't match in NY, they look inferior, but if they only match in NY, the DC/Boston lawyers will probably be pretty mad about it (I think they already don't like some things about NY, like how its summer program has to have more expensive lunches/activities/etc---the NY office is only like 10 years old). Market-wise it might make sense to just do NY if they can help it, but I can't see that happening. For comparison, WH announced its bump to 160k about 3-4 months after the market moved (but I think the transition may have been slower for the market at that point).

So I'm not sure how Covington feels about WH as a peer but maybe they'd feel obligated if the above is correct.

[Anonymous User]

Covington's egregious memo:

"We are aware of the recent announcement by several New York based firms that they are increasing their associate salary scale. At this point, our view is that this increase in NY salaries does not reflect the prevailing market in Washington or other cities outside New York. Traditionally, associate salaries in New York have been somewhat higher than in other markets around the country..."

bla bla bla.

They are only increasing in NY.

Desperately trying to signal to other DC firms to not raise salaries either.