1L Summer Job Search C/O 2018 Forum

[BigZuck]

How is your experience contrary to the prevailing wisdom of "doesn't matter, as long as it's legal" ?

I think this (the "doesn't matter as long as legal" advice) is sometimes taken too extreme. The general advice is that as long as it is legal, it doesn't hurt. I do think 1L jobs can help, though, but not in the typical TLS fart-sniffing V10 obsession way. Firms aren't going to care that you worked at some job that was super prestigious or hard to get. The way a summer job can help you is in shaping your narrative for OCI and giving you something to talk about positively. My experience was that taking a more topical job really helped me at OCI. And even if it didn't, it made OCI easier since I knew every single employer was going to ask about my summer job first (and they did), and I was able to talk about it super positively.

ETA: I said this earlier, but I think one place that your 1L job can really help is location. Especially if you are best coast born/bred/law schooled, it is nice to be able to prove to firms that you can and are willing to live in NYC.

My 1L job didn't come up all that much throughout OCI and was not brought up at all at my best/most successful interviews

Maybe an old vs K-JD thing?

[xael]

oh, definitely. My summer job was the only remotely interesting thing about my resume outside of the "interests" section.

[Anonymous User]

I think that you should either have a legal job that helps your story or gives the interviewer something to talk about with you. I was sort of in between as far as work experience goes (working for a little while, but by no means a career), and I think having an interesting job that interviewers wanted to talk about really helped.

[Anonymous User]

How is your experience contrary to the prevailing wisdom of "doesn't matter, as long as it's legal" ?

I think this (the "doesn't matter as long as legal" advice) is sometimes taken too extreme. The general advice is that as long as it is legal, it doesn't hurt. I do think 1L jobs can help, though, but not in the typical TLS fart-sniffing V10 obsession way. Firms aren't going to care that you worked at some job that was super prestigious or hard to get. The way a summer job can help you is in shaping your narrative for OCI and giving you something to talk about positively. My experience was that taking a more topical job really helped me at OCI. And even if it didn't, it made OCI easier since I knew every single employer was going to ask about my summer job first (and they did), and I was able to talk about it super positively.

ETA: I said this earlier, but I think one place that your 1L job can really help is location. Especially if you are best coast born/bred/law schooled, it is nice to be able to prove to firms that you can and are willing to live in NYC.

My 1L job didn't come up all that much throughout OCI and was not brought up at all at my best/most successful interviews

Maybe an old vs K-JD thing?

Not a K-JD (5 yrs WE in banking operations) and my 1L stuff came up way more at OCI. Worked in-house at a mature startup that does a bunch of structured finance stuff, and it definitely helped me both in NYC (talking about the finance stuff) and in Boston (talking about startup stuff). I think I would have had a much more difficult time in Boston if I had just done a ho-hum fed internship or judicial internship.

I'm in the "1L summer cant hurt, but can definitely help" camp.

[Glasseyes]

Yeah, I'm old as dirt (8+ years out of undergrad with a ton of weird/fun work experience), but the 1L summer gig came up in every single interview. But based on the regulatory practice I was targeting and my 1L summer experience at the relevant Fed agency, it makes sense that everyone wanted to talk about it since it was directly relevant.

[pancakes3]

I guess I'm quibbling over the "doesn't matter" part. I think what TLS means is that it doesn't matter in OCI what your job was. Obviously there are benefits to getting "better" internships than not, but as far as OCI goes, the bump of a prestigious bigfed internship over working at your uncle's shitlaw is negligible compared to grades and interviewing skills. Demonstrated interest goes a long way in for 2L bigfed so that may be one caveat. A 1L SA is another caveat. But by and large, interning in chambers, in-house, etc. it all "doesn't matter".

[Anonymous User]

Got an interview request yesterday from one of the firms I applied to on December 1st.

What market/school range and are you diverse

CCN, secondary market, not diverse but female

Same OP as post quoted - interview request from a different firm in same secondary market - applied Dec 1 there as well.

"Very interested" email yesterday from V100 w/satellite in my secondary market requesting grades.

Interview request from another firm in the same secondary market.

[Anonymous User]

Have a 1L offer from a secondary federal agency. They didnt even ask for grades. Is it rare for federal agencies to make offers without knowing grades? Is there any major downside (besides not being paid) as to why someone shouldnt accept an offer for the federal government? Is this considered "prestigious" / will it be viewed as favorable or highly favorable by firms?

[A. Nony Mouse]

Have a 1L offer from a secondary federal agency. They didnt even ask for grades. Is it rare for federal agencies to make offers without knowing grades? Is there any major downside (besides not being paid) as to why someone shouldnt accept an offer for the federal government? Is this considered "prestigious" / will it be viewed as favorable or highly favorable by firms?

1L jobs aren't prestigious, but to the extent anyone will care, there is no way at all to answer this question without knowing the agency, since there are a LOT of different agencies doing a lot of stuff that is more or less pertinent to firm work depending on the agency and what kind of work you want to do at a firm. What are you actually interested in doing, what will this job have you do, and what are your alternatives to this agency?

[Anonymous User]

Have a 1L offer from a secondary federal agency. They didnt even ask for grades. Is it rare for federal agencies to make offers without knowing grades? Is there any major downside (besides not being paid) as to why someone shouldnt accept an offer for the federal government? Is this considered "prestigious" / will it be viewed as favorable or highly favorable by firms?

1L jobs aren't prestigious, but to the extent anyone will care, there is no way at all to answer this question without knowing the agency, since there are a LOT of different agencies doing a lot of stuff that is more or less pertinent to firm work depending on the agency and what kind of work you want to do at a firm. What are you actually interested in doing, what will this job have you do, and what are your alternatives to this agency?

Thanks, Nony! I understand 1L jobs are prestigious, but surely there are good and less good 1L positions (although I know that's probably depending on what each individual's goals are). The job is in employment law (think department of Labor/EEOC). I'm definitely interested in employment law (it's one of two areas I could see myself in post-graduation). The job will have me doing a lot of LRW work, but the reviews on glassdoor say that there is a lot of downtime, the office is crowded/not very nice, mixed experienced with learning skills. Right now I dont have alternatives, but this is also the first 1L job I applied to. I think I could get a job with the country attorney (Pro: can keep my apartment and not have to pay for DC) or some firms through their diversity scholarship (I'm diverse with a really strong resume)--although I understand 1L jobs arent always easy to come by so it would be a risk.

I guess I keep wavering because I dont want to settle. I settled before in undergrad, and I dont want to take the "easy" way out. I want to make sure I'm making the best decision for me.

[A. Nony Mouse]

The problem is that eventually you are going to have to pick something and you're not going to know whether you're settling or not, and it will be okay. There isn't really a wrong answer as long as you do something legal. A 1L gig is probably the best deal, in part because it's paid but also because they can sometimes turn into future offers (depends though - my understanding is that some firms will make permanent offers to 1L diversity hires, and some firms won't even have you back for 2L - but I'm sure it varies). But the other options certainly aren't going to hurt you - they're just different options.

Are the reviews on glassdoor really for law student intern positions? That seems odd to me.

[Anonymous User]

Any tips on how to respond to an interview request email? I'm sure I'm overthinking it...

[Slytherpuff]

Any tips on how to respond to an interview request email? I'm sure I'm overthinking it...

No reason to overthink it. Just be polite and professional, and go ahead and schedule the interview.

[Anonymous User]

Any tips on how to respond to an interview request email? I'm sure I'm overthinking it...

No reason to overthink it. Just be polite and professional, and go ahead and schedule the interview.

Thank you fkt18!

[RumBait]

Regarding 1L gigs turning into future offers: My understanding is that this has become much more common in recent years. I know of a diversity program that works with several large firms that recently dropped a requirement that 1L hires not be extended return offers. I also know of a large firm with a two week program for 1Ls that guarantees a return offer upon completion of the program. I have never understood why a firm would outright bar return offers, especially for summers who thrive in the program.

[PeanutsNJam]

I could really use some help, thanks in advance. I've only ever written cover letters tailored to a specific employer; I've never done a mass-mail cover letter. Can somebody give some pointers? I'm used to expressing why the location/position/company appeals to me in a cover letter; do you just talk about yourself, and not the employer company, in a mass-mail cover letter?

I've yet to send out a single application and it's Jan 2nd already. My final memo has yet to be graded and returned, and I've tried editing it in order to make it into a writing sample, but I don't want to send out a turd. How much should I stress about the quality of my writing sample, and how far up shit creek am I?

I unexpectedly did quite well on the first grade I got back, and depending on how I do in my other courses, I may end up with a pretty high class rank. This was unanticipated, and I'm not sure what doors are open to me now, or if it really doesn't make a big difference for 1L summer. I've heard murmurs about diversity fellowships at law firms being easier to get than regular summer associates. On the other hand, I've heard being Asian doesn't really help for diversity fellowships anyway. Should I bother?

References. Some applications request references. My previous employer barely speaks any English. Can I just put law professors? Who else may be an acceptable reference?

[buckiguy_sucks]

...

So I just applied to one market because SO but i talked about the market. I didn't really know how law firms are different in any way because i don't know their reputations so I just tried to write a specific sentence about each firm that seemed like it is what they cared about but they were mostly bull shit

LRW profs (even without grades back) seem happy to be references, maybe use the one in the class you did well in

I'm a white guy so i didn't bother writing anything about diversity and just applied broadly to firms that said they took 1Ls, but i've only had two of the 18 or so firms i applied to reply back that they want grades and like 10 or so dings so I might just wait until grades are out anyway (very probably bad advice)

i really highly doubt you're fucked, if you're going to be ok with relocating (which it seems like you are) and especially if you have good grades. Maybe no firm job but I have just accepted this whole time that and will be really happy with paid and happy with anything in fed gov

[kade]

I found harvard law's website on cover letters to be helpful. You might want to check it out if you haven't seen it already.

[m27]

I found harvard law's website on cover letters to be helpful. You might want to check it out if you haven't seen it already.

Second. Link: http://hls.harvard.edu/content/uploads/ ... eb2011.pdf

I've only ever written cover letters tailored to a specific employer; I've never done a mass-mail cover letter. Can somebody give some pointers? I'm used to expressing why the location/position/company appeals to me in a cover letter; do you just talk about yourself, and not the employer company, in a mass-mail cover letter?

A similar cover letter tailored to the particular employer, rather than a mass letter to all, is probably your best bet. If you're applying to several DA offices, for example, your statements of interest in criminal prosecution will likely be the same- with changes only to the name of the office/addressee (obviously) and maybe a mention of a particular bureau you want to work in. Based on what I've been told: highlight your strengths (legal research/writing, interpersonal skills, etc.) and work experience (similar/dissimilar internships or jobs) then tie it back to the job you're applying for. Fairly straightforward cover letter writing overall- but make sure you don't mix any app materials up.

I've yet to send out a single application and it's Jan 2nd already. My final memo has yet to be graded and returned, and I've tried editing it in order to make it into a writing sample, but I don't want to send out a turd. How much should I stress about the quality of my writing sample, and how far up shit creek am I?

You should email your professor to ask for an advance on your memo feedback. I did this last week and my professor was extremely helpful (she just omitted the grade); they know about early deadlines and the benefit of doing applications over winter break. And you're fine. Just meet deadlines and stay organized.

I unexpectedly did quite well on the first grade I got back, and depending on how I do in my other courses, I may end up with a pretty high class rank. This was unanticipated, and I'm not sure what doors are open to me now, or if it really doesn't make a big difference for 1L summer. I've heard murmurs about diversity fellowships at law firms being easier to get than regular summer associates. On the other hand, I've heard being Asian doesn't really help for diversity fellowships anyway. Should I bother?

Unless the application specifically requires a certain ethnicity or URM, it's worth an application if you're interested in the gig. Internship applications don't cost anything but your time. I say go for it.

References. Some applications request references. My previous employer barely speaks any English. Can I just put law professors? Who else may be an acceptable reference?

Depends if the application requires "professional references" or just "references." If the former, then they are expecting a reference who supervised/knows you in some job, volunteer, or internship capacity. If the latter, a law/undergrad professor or someone along those lines will do.

[Anonymous User]

I found harvard law's website on cover letters to be helpful. You might want to check it out if you haven't seen it already.

Second. Link: http://hls.harvard.edu/content/uploads/ ... eb2011.pdf

I've only ever written cover letters tailored to a specific employer; I've never done a mass-mail cover letter. Can somebody give some pointers? I'm used to expressing why the location/position/company appeals to me in a cover letter; do you just talk about yourself, and not the employer company, in a mass-mail cover letter?

A similar cover letter tailored to the particular employer, rather than a mass letter to all, is probably your best bet. If you're applying to several DA offices, for example, your statements of interest in criminal prosecution will likely be the same- with changes only to the name of the office/addressee (obviously) and maybe a mention of a particular bureau you want to work in. Based on what I've been told: highlight your strengths (legal research/writing, interpersonal skills, etc.) and work experience (similar/dissimilar internships or jobs) then tie it back to the job you're applying for. Fairly straightforward cover letter writing overall- but make sure you don't mix any app materials up.

I've yet to send out a single application and it's Jan 2nd already. My final memo has yet to be graded and returned, and I've tried editing it in order to make it into a writing sample, but I don't want to send out a turd. How much should I stress about the quality of my writing sample, and how far up shit creek am I?

You should email your professor to ask for an advance on your memo feedback. I did this last week and my professor was extremely helpful (she just omitted the grade); they know about early deadlines and the benefit of doing applications over winter break. And you're fine. Just meet deadlines and stay organized.

I unexpectedly did quite well on the first grade I got back, and depending on how I do in my other courses, I may end up with a pretty high class rank. This was unanticipated, and I'm not sure what doors are open to me now, or if it really doesn't make a big difference for 1L summer. I've heard murmurs about diversity fellowships at law firms being easier to get than regular summer associates. On the other hand, I've heard being Asian doesn't really help for diversity fellowships anyway. Should I bother?

Unless the application specifically requires a certain ethnicity or URM, it's worth an application if you're interested in the gig. Internship applications don't cost anything but your time. I say go for it.

References. Some applications request references. My previous employer barely speaks any English. Can I just put law professors? Who else may be an acceptable reference?

Depends if the application requires "professional references" or just "references." If the former, then they are expecting a reference who supervised/knows you in some job, volunteer, or internship capacity. If the latter, a law/undergrad professor or someone along those lines will do.

Thanks for your responses! If you don't mind, I'd like to piggyback off of this. Do diversity fellowships prioritize response timing the way most 1L SAs generally do? I have deadlines approaching, and at this point I don't know whether I should wait until my grades are released in a few days, or go ahead and submit the applications now and follow up with my grades later. I have the same issue with a few applications that directed me to an automated form, which requires uploading a transcript. I could upload a document again (already in my cover letter) noting that I'll send grades along as I get them, or I could just wait until I have them. Is one option better than the other, or doesn't it matter at this point?

[m27]

Thanks for your responses! If you don't mind, I'd like to piggyback off of this. Do diversity fellowships prioritize response timing the way most 1L SAs generally do? I have deadlines approaching, and at this point I don't know whether I should wait until my grades are released in a few days, or go ahead and submit the applications now and follow up with my grades later. I have the same issue with a few applications that directed me to an automated form, which requires uploading a transcript. I could upload a document again (already in my cover letter) noting that I'll send grades along as I get them, or I could just wait until I have them. Is one option better than the other, or doesn't it matter at this point?

I'm not 100% sure if there is prioritization on timing, but I wouldn't be surprised if application timing is somewhat-favorable. To be safe, submit the applications with a self-prepared transcript as you finish them (your fall/spring courses and contact information) and follow up with a legit transcript when your grades are out.

[03282016]

[WeeBey]

Apps for Skadden close at midnight

Almost forgot about that one, thanks.

BTW, does Skadden even take non top 10% HYSCCN for the 1L Scholars Program?

[Tr3]

Apps for Skadden close at midnight

Almost forgot about that one, thanks.

BTW, does Skadden even take non top 10% HYSCCN for the 1L Scholars Program?

I know of at least one. Not top 10% or t6, but still at a t14. However, the person had ties to Skadden prior to 1L (I don't say that to diminish that person's selection for the program because s/he is really awesome!).

[Anonymous User]

was there no confirmation email after applying to Skadden?