Michigan 2014 OCI Thread!!!!!!! Forum

[Anonymous User]

There are likely only two substantive changes: the GPA curve and the size of the class. They probably offset each other somewhat, but many firms will recognize and adjust their view on GPA. I think the percentages from last year are a good guide.

Pick the firms you're interested in --> eliminate the ones that you're not competitive for --> select the firms that historically make more offers to Michigan students --> place the top 20 in an inverse order of their interview/bid ratio last year --> take a look at the number of interview slots this year vs last to see if anything important changed --> put it into symplicity --> fill in the last 10 spots with firms that lack a GPA profile or government agencies or random firms. Have a drink.

I don't think a lot of students who really want to do OCI are dissuaded by less than stellar grades. And hopefully people recognize that the important thing is getting an offer, not where you get the offer. With the smaller class size and a couple more firms, it should be about the same, even if more people do OCI. I think we're going to kill this, btw. Apparently, last year it sounded like people over 3.4 got offers and those under, with some exceptions, had a really tough time. I think it'll be about the same this year.

[Anonymous User]

Thinking about how this year's bid-to-interview will change given the curve adjustment. What do you guys think?

At first I was thinking a lot more people would participate in OCI, as more of our final GPAs will meet the firm GPA guidelines we've been given. But the more I think about this the less impact I think it will have, especially with our reduced class size.

Another thing I've been wondering about is the composition of our class compared to previous years. Anyone have anything to say about whether we're more small market-focused, PI-focused, or anything else that may affect how likely you are to do OCI? I guess something else that could be useful to know is whether they changed their admissions standards for our class.

Last thing I think could play a role is OCP's advice to pursue options outside of OCI. Did they push this as hard a year ago? If not, maybe a lot of will already have jobs come August 7 and not bother with OCI.

Right now I'm thinking it will be on average 10-20% (not percentage points) harder to get interviews for firms with like a 3.5 median and below, but not much different for firms with medians above that.

You guys have any thoughts?

1. Almost everyone participates in OCI (even those with lower grades). I really doubt the grade-curve change will change anything on this front. And if you have a low GPA, you should still of course participate. It is your best opportunity to get a job.
2. The people who do not participate are almost exclusively those really interested in doing PI and usually a very specific type of PI. These people typically came to law school for a very specific reason and know they would rather be unemployed than work at a firm.
3. I did OCI in 2011. My year I would estimate at the most 30-40 people did not participate at all. It could be a lot fewer. Including transfers, our class had 400 people. So that would be at most 10% of the class did not participate.
4. I doubt the percentage of focused PI people changes too much across classes. Much more common is seeing people who proclaimed to be PI focused throughout 1L showing up to OCI.
5. Although you should certainly mass mail before OCI, very few firms will be able to get you through a callback and give you an offer before they start OCIs. Quinn might be able to, but I am not too sure too many other firms will or will want to move this quickly. Therefore, even for people who aggressively pursue non-OCI options, very few will have an offer before August 7. Even fewer will have their top choice before August 7. And of course you have to bid much earlier than OCI. So I really doubt participation in OCI will change at all due to OCI's greater push (assuming this is even true) for non-OCI options. At best, it might free up a few interviews.

[Anonymous User]

mega-anecdotal... ass at a V20 told me they don't really pay attention to school median and the GPA cut off is pretty much the same across the board

[OfThriceandTen]

I wouldn't eliminate either of the other two big changes OCP made this year as substantial improvements: bumping the date of OCI up almost 2 weeks and having it at the lawyer's club. Bumping the date up probably doesn't change how many callbacks firms will offer as those are usually set before recruiting season, standard across years/based on need, and because interviewers are only interviewing for one school. But it will give a fantastic edge in converting CBs to offers, which was more of a struggle last year than in years' past. Interviewers, especially older partners, are going to be pleased to be back in the lawyer's club, and I see that adding to the general positive impression they have. These things, plus the GPA bump, plus your smaller class size, puts everyone in superior positions to last year's class. I hope things go really well for everyone.

Also, to the poster before who was wondering if OCP made it a point to tell people to use methods other than OCI as hard last year: they did. They definitely did.

[scaliaantics]

I wouldn't eliminate either of the other two big changes OCP made this year as substantial improvements: bumping the date of OCI up almost 2 weeks and having it at the lawyer's club. Bumping the date up probably doesn't change how many callbacks firms will offer as those are usually set before recruiting season, standard across years/based on need, and because interviewers are only interviewing for one school. But it will give a fantastic edge in converting CBs to offers, which was more of a struggle last year than in years' past. Interviewers, especially older partners, are going to be pleased to be back in the lawyer's club, and I see that adding to the general positive impression they have. These things, plus the GPA bump, plus your smaller class size, puts everyone in superior positions to last year's class. I hope things go really well for everyone. I did fairly well last year and am happily employed in Chicago, so feel free to PM with any specific questions.

Also, to the poster before who was wondering if OCP made it a point to tell people to use methods other than OCI as hard last year: they did. They definitely did.

I disagree with a lot of this. If callbacks are set in advance, then being in the lawyers club by definition changes nothing. I also don't think OCP pushed people to do as much outside of OCI as they are this year. I was told I would have a job and not to worry over and over and over again, as were my friends who were less competitive GPA wise.

[Anonymous User]

I think the point was that there may not be more CBs, but if they are earlier, then the chances of an offer might be better. Much the same way that your chances are better if you apply to law school early in the cycle, firms probably fill their SA positions with students they like, and it becomes tougher to get a spot as time progresses. I agree that we've got a lot going for us this year. 25 percent smaller class size three years ago, better market, higher GPAs, better location for OCI, smarter class (ok, no we're probably dumber), but still. I am anticipating a ton of CBs.

[Druid]

I really don't remember OCP pushing over options very hard last year.

[scaliaantics]

I think the point was that there may not be more CBs, but if they are earlier, then the chances of an offer might be better. Much the same way that your chances are better if you apply to law school early in the cycle, firms probably fill their SA positions with students they like, and it becomes tougher to get a spot as time progresses. I agree that we've got a lot going for us this year. 25 percent smaller class size three years ago, better market, higher GPAs, better location for OCI, smarter class (ok, no we're probably dumber), but still. I am anticipating a ton of CBs.

I just think you're running yourself in circles. I agree that earlier in the cycle means there may be more offers. I think that point is pretty well established. But you said in your first sentence that there may not be more CB's and then your last sentence says you're anticipating tons of them.

I think the real takeaway is to not try and read tea leaves. Just mass mail, go in not expecting anything, and hope you get lucky. Do your best but have no expectations.

[OfThriceandTen]

I really don't remember OCP pushing over options very hard last year.

meh, maybe you guys were talking to different OCP people. it's possible. but i was definitely told to exploit all of my contacts and massmail starting in mid-late July. i can't compare it to this year, but i personally felt the push to do it last year.

[BuckinghamB]

I really don't remember OCP pushing over options very hard last year.

meh, maybe you guys were talking to different OCP people. it's possible. but i was definitely told to exploit all of my contacts and massmail starting in mid-late July. i can't compare it to this year, but i personally felt the push to do it last year.

i only mentioned the lawyer's club setting as the michigan recruiting team at my firm have spoken about it rather excitedly. so for firms that may not have the CB # set by recruiting but by the michigan-specific interviewing team, they may be more likely to take more chances or people on the cusp due to nostalgia/positive vibes from being back in LC.

Maybe they'll like that it's in the lawyers club, but I doubt that would cause them to give more CBs

ETA: scooped

[keg411]

Just be happy you guys get to avoid the horror that was the Holiday Inn. Being trapped there with terrible food options and where everyone around you stressing out was pretty much the worst (seriously, if you are living close by I'd strong recommend going home if you have long breaks between interviews because the whole thing is a giant pressure cooker). But I'm pretty sure the OCI at the Lawyer's Club is a new thing, since I did OCI pre-construction and we had to go to the Holiday Inn (as did the class ahead of us).

[Anonymous User]

I think the point was that there may not be more CBs, but if they are earlier, then the chances of an offer might be better. Much the same way that your chances are better if you apply to law school early in the cycle, firms probably fill their SA positions with students they like, and it becomes tougher to get a spot as time progresses. I agree that we've got a lot going for us this year. 25 percent smaller class size three years ago, better market, higher GPAs, better location for OCI, smarter class (ok, no we're probably dumber), but still. I am anticipating a ton of CBs.

I just think you're running yourself in circles. I agree that earlier in the cycle means there may be more offers. I think that point is pretty well established. But you said in your first sentence that there may not be more CB's and then your last sentence says you're anticipating tons of them.

I think the real takeaway is to not try and read tea leaves. Just mass mail, go in not expecting anything, and hope you get lucky. Do your best but have no expectations.

As a personal matter, as I already have an offer, expectations are driving me to do OCI. If I thought odds were I wasn't going to get offers from V10 firms, I wouldn't bother with the expense of OCI. But obviously that's not a typical situation.

[Anonymous User]

Hi all, 2 questions. One, could anyone who's gone through OCI in years past glance at my bidlist, strictly for likelihood of getting an interview? That is - are there any firms that are very obviously too low (or too high) if, hypothetically, my only concern was getting a screener?

Second, am I understanding the "no multiple interviews" correctly? Each of the firms with asterisks are my second bid, so you can find a bid for another office above them in the list. (There are six.) Am I correct in understanding that I am guaranteed to have my final six bids processed, even if for some of these firms I miss my first bid but get my second? So If I missed Ropes and Gray DC (#2), but got Ropes and Gray NYC (#5), I would still definitely have my second Regional Firm (#36) processed? Or is it the other way around - that if I don't get my first bid, my second gets used up, and #36 would not even be processed?

Thank you!

1 - Jones Day (NYC)
2 - Ropes and Gray (DC)
3 - Hogan Lovells (NYC)
4 - Crowell & Moring (DC)
*5 - Ropes and Gray (NYC)
6 - Akin Gump (NYC)
*7 - Hogan Lovells (DC)
*8 - Akin Gump (DC)
9 - Arnold and Porter (DC)
10 - Gibson Dunn (NYC)
11 - Paul Hastings (NYC)
12 - Steptoe and Johnson (DC)
*13 - Jones Day (DC)
14 - Wilmerhale (DC)
*15 - Gibson Dunn (DC)
16 - Paul Weiss (NYC)
17 - Sidley Austin (DC)
18 - Venable (DC)
19 - Cravath (NYC)
*20 -Paul Hastings (DC)
21 - Latham and Watkins (DC)
22 - Debevoise & Plimpton (NYC)
23 - Skadden (DC)
24 - Weil Gotshal (NYC)
25 - Skadden (NYC)
26 - Cadwalader (NYC)
27 - Covington & Burling (DC)
28 - Simpson Thacher (NYC)
29 - Sullivan & Cromwell (NYC)
30 - Cleary Gottlieb (DC)
31 - Cleary Gottlieb (NYC)
32 - Williams and Connolly (DC)
33 - O'Melveny (DC)
34 - Davis Polk (NYC)
35 - REGIONAL FIRM
36 - REGIONAL FIRM

[scaliaantics]

I think the point was that there may not be more CBs, but if they are earlier, then the chances of an offer might be better. Much the same way that your chances are better if you apply to law school early in the cycle, firms probably fill their SA positions with students they like, and it becomes tougher to get a spot as time progresses. I agree that we've got a lot going for us this year. 25 percent smaller class size three years ago, better market, higher GPAs, better location for OCI, smarter class (ok, no we're probably dumber), but still. I am anticipating a ton of CBs.

I just think you're running yourself in circles. I agree that earlier in the cycle means there may be more offers. I think that point is pretty well established. But you said in your first sentence that there may not be more CB's and then your last sentence says you're anticipating tons of them.

I think the real takeaway is to not try and read tea leaves. Just mass mail, go in not expecting anything, and hope you get lucky. Do your best but have no expectations.

As a personal matter, as I already have an offer, expectations are driving me to do OCI. If I thought odds were I wasn't going to get offers from V10 firms, I wouldn't bother with the expense of OCI. But obviously that's not a typical situation.

... Would you like a fucking cookie?

[Anonymous User]

Of course people have expectations. That's how you creat a bid list. It's all about expectations. What's reasonable for one person might not be for another. Everyone is reading the tea leaves, because that's all we've got now.

[scaliaantics]

Of course people have expectations. That's how you creat a bid list. It's all about expectations. What's reasonable for one person might not be for another. Everyone is reading the tea leaves, because that's all we've got now.

Yeah I know you have expectations. I'm telling you to stop having them. Your reading of tea leaves, because thats all you've got, has literally zero impact on anything, so stop reading them. Otherwise you'll worry incessantly about something that may or may not matter and end up doing something to compensate that may or may not make a difference and in the process you'll convince yourself that the thing you did about the issue you faced worked or didn't work without really having any understanding as to the reality of the situation. Much of this situation is out of your control. Be conservative and relax.

[Anonymous User]

Of course people have expectations. That's how you creat a bid list. It's all about expectations. What's reasonable for one person might not be for another. Everyone is reading the tea leaves, because that's all we've got now.

Yeah I know you have expectations. I'm telling you to stop having them. Your reading of tea leaves, because thats all you've got, has literally zero impact on anything, so stop reading them. Otherwise you'll worry incessantly about something that may or may not matter and end up doing something to compensate that may or may not make a difference and in the process you'll convince yourself that the thing you did about the issue you faced worked or didn't work without really having any understanding as to the reality of the situation. Much of this situation is out of your control. Be conservative and relax.

I should have taken the blue pill...

[Anonymous User]

Just got an email from OCP regarding the special resume necessary for Wilson Sonsini (i.e. putting corporate or litigation in the top right-hand corner). Do any other firms have similarly odd requests? Just want to make sure both OCP and I collectively haven't missed any on my bid list....

[Anonymous User]

Can people pretty please critique my bidlist for placement?

Gibson NY
Kirkland NY
Weil NY
Hogan NY
Cravath
Sidley NY
Davis Polk NY
Simpson NY
Paul Weiss NY
Cadwalader
Wilmer NY
Debevoise
Cleary NY
Latham NY
Wilmer DC
Paul Weiss DC
Skadden CHI
A&P DC
Kirkland CHI
PAul Hastings NY
Hogan DC
Sidley DC
W&C DC
O'Melveny DC
Covington DC
Shearman NYC
Gibson Dunn DC
Milbank NYC
Sullivan NYC
Jones Day DC
MAyer Brown CHI

[Anonymous User]

Can people pretty please critique my bidlist for placement?

Gibson NY
Kirkland NY
Weil NY
Hogan NY
Cravath
Sidley NY
Davis Polk NY
Simpson NY
Paul Weiss NY
Cadwalader
Wilmer NY
Debevoise
Cleary NY
Latham NY
Wilmer DC
Paul Weiss DC
Skadden CHI
A&P DC
Kirkland CHI
PAul Hastings NY
Hogan DC
Sidley DC
W&C DC
O'Melveny DC
Covington DC
Shearman NYC
Gibson Dunn DC
Milbank NYC
Sullivan NYC
Jones Day DC
MAyer Brown CHI

I don't think you're going to get Gibson DC or Jones Day DC that low, but that's just me.

[Anonymous User]

Isn't Weil's Bid to Int. ratio super high? Interested in why you have them ranked so high.

[Anonymous User]

OP for the most recent list here.

Yeah but re Gibson, since they don't allow multiple interviews (from my understanding) since I'll (presumably) get them at #1, I will have my one interview with them. The OCI materials then say that Gibson will see that I bid their DC office (they won't know where I bid DC). Also, based on the example they gave in the OCI materials, Gibson DC will drop from my list once I get Gibson NYC... so basically I'm just sticking Gibson DC on there so they see that I bid them.

Am I missing anything?

[Anonymous User]

Do we need to upload any other documents besides our resume prior to Thursday? (e.g. writing sample, transcript)

[Anonymous User]

Just got an email from OCP regarding the special resume necessary for Wilson Sonsini (i.e. putting corporate or litigation in the top right-hand corner). Do any other firms have similarly odd requests? Just want to make sure both OCP and I collectively haven't missed any on my bid list....

Any firms that require something like that would say so on Symplicity. Just click the "review" button for each of your bids and see if it says anything there.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone want to critique/dismantle/make fun of my bidlist? Sitting around a 3.2 (gag), strong connections to Chicago, good interviewer w/ decent WE. All firms are Chicago office unless otherwise indicated.

1. Chapman
2. Drinker Biddle
3. K&L Gates
4. Greenberg Taurig
5. Katten Muchin
6. Baker McKenzie
7. Holland Knight
8. Faegre Baker Daniels
9. Perkins Coie
10. Bryan Cave
11. Foley Lardner
12. Jenner
13. Clark Hill
14. Schiff Hardin
15. Sheppard Mullin
16. Thompson Coburn
17. Quarles Brady (Milwaukee)
18. Vedder Price
19. Locke Lord
20. Godfrey Kahn (Milwaukee)
21. Hall Render Killian (Milwaukee)
22. McDermott Will Emery
23. Polsinelli
24. Whyte Hirschboech (Milwaukee)
25. Proskauer
27. Reinhart (Milwaukee
28-30. ??