NEW final 2010 OCI results thread that are ACTUALLY FINAL Forum

[Lawl Shcool]

To counter this, there are some incredibly smart people on this forum who know each other pretty well, and saying what school you're from might make it really easy for someone to figure out who you are. I'm all for people giving a small range of schools instead of the school itself, if it's the difference between them sharing anonymously and not wanting to share at all.

These are merely my personal observations on the matter.

+1 and especially true for transfers who have posted in the transfer forum.

[Kohinoor]

Something that I still don't understand: If you're posting anonymously, why give a school range instead of the ACTUAL SCHOOL you attend. This would seriously help people like me who are trying to figure out which school to attend *within* a particular range (e.g. people are calling Chi a "bloodbath," so when people say "above median CCN with 0 offers," it'd be nice to know whether it's C, C, or N). You're not outing yourself unless you're uniquely situated; 98% of the posters in this thread are not.

To counter this, there are some incredibly smart people on this forum who know each other pretty well, and saying what school you're from might make it really easy for someone to figure out who you are. I'm all for people giving a small range of schools instead of the school itself, if it's the difference between them sharing anonymously and not wanting to share at all.

These are merely my personal observations on the matter.

"I'm a T14 bl-"
"Sup Kohinoor"

[rayiner]

I don't really understand why everyone's whining about overhyped interviewing abilities in this thread, other than the fact that whining seems to be the pastime of the majority of this site's users.

Does it not make sense after awhile that top students at top law schools might *gasp* be closer to a 10 on a sliding scale of interviewing ability than my buddy from middle school that salvages sheet metal now out in the country?

I mean, if we're supposed to be rating ourselves 1-10 compared to other law students, fine. But A) that's pretty hard to do since you rarely if ever see other students interview, and B) is about as arbitrary as, well, anything else in law school.

Also not surprising that there's significant overlap in the "interviewgate" and "anon abuse!!!!!!" crowds. Mind. your. own. business.

Your average law student does not interview as well as your average person. And yes, I think everyone was operating under the assumption that "5 = average relative to your peers."

[Futuretense]

Of course the inteview rating is all subjective, and yes, it should be how you think you rate against other law students, not your yard man. I'm the one who proposed it in the first place, and I think it's a helpful part of the overall picture. I wasn't happy with how I did particularly in my interviews, and I didn't do well with callbacks or offers. Focusing on DC didn't help, either, but obviously a few people did fine there, and on the surface, the main thing that seems to separate them from me is their self-assessed interviewing ability.

[KMaine]

I don't really understand why everyone's whining about overhyped interviewing abilities in this thread, other than the fact that whining seems to be the pastime of the majority of this site's users.

Does it not make sense after awhile that top students at top law schools might *gasp* be closer to a 10 on a sliding scale of interviewing ability than my buddy from middle school that salvages sheet metal now out in the country?

I mean, if we're supposed to be rating ourselves 1-10 compared to other law students, fine. But A) that's pretty hard to do since you rarely if ever see other students interview, and B) is about as arbitrary as, well, anything else in law school.

Also not surprising that there's significant overlap in the "interviewgate" and "anon abuse!!!!!!" crowds. Mind. your. own. business.

Your average law student does not interview as well as your average person. And yes, I think everyone was operating under the assumption that "5 = average relative to your peers."

This points out how utterly subjective (and perhaps meaningless) it may be to rate yourself "relative to your peers." I would have thought the students at my law school were MUCH BETTER interviewers than the average person.

That said, I think this whole thread is realtively pointless. Mostly people who post have great opportunities, and almost all posters are high ranking students at high ranking schools. That said, I just can't stop reading the thread every day.

[20160810]

I don't really understand why everyone's whining about overhyped interviewing abilities in this thread, other than the fact that whining seems to be the pastime of the majority of this site's users.

Does it not make sense after awhile that top students at top law schools might *gasp* be closer to a 10 on a sliding scale of interviewing ability than my buddy from middle school that salvages sheet metal now out in the country?

I mean, if we're supposed to be rating ourselves 1-10 compared to other law students, fine. But A) that's pretty hard to do since you rarely if ever see other students interview, and B) is about as arbitrary as, well, anything else in law school.

Also not surprising that there's significant overlap in the "interviewgate" and "anon abuse!!!!!!" crowds. Mind. your. own. business.

Agreed.

Additionally, the results themselves serve as an outside check on the veracity of one's self-reported interview prowess. Someone who is top-20% at a T14 and has no offers probably isn't actually a 9.5. On the other hand, I gave myself a high rating, which I think is borne out by the fact that I got firm offers despite having just-OK grades from a relatively mediocre law school. For people in between where the results do not necessarily speak for themselves, I just err on the side of (1.) believing them and (2.) not really caring.

[Anonymous User]

School range: DNCG
Market(s): DC, NY, hometown secondary
Approx. class rank: #1 (transfer from T50)
Law review: primary journal
Work experience: No
IP background: No
Anything else that might have an impact?: probably not
Self-assessed interview ability (1-10): 5
Screening Interviews: 12
Mass mails: ~20
Callbacks received: 7 (3 from mass mailing, 4 from OCI)
Callbacks accepted: 6
Offers w/vault ranges: 1 V100 (via mass mailing), 1 V75 (via OCI), 1 non-vault (via mass mailing)
--> Note that I had 0 offers until the past week, and all came from interviews I had in the past 2 weeks.

[sperry]

[For median people targeting NYC at Penn this year, I'd say the average # of callbacks was probably around 7-9. I know below median kids with more than that for NYC too.

I don't think that's even remotely close to true. Some median folks might have gotten 7-9 callbacks but average would have been significantly lower.

[Veyron]

[For median people targeting NYC at Penn this year, I'd say the average # of callbacks was probably around 7-9. I know below median kids with more than that for NYC too.

I don't think that's even remotely close to true. Some median folks might have gotten 7-9 callbacks but average would have been significantly lower.

Do you go to Penn? If so what would you say the average was?

[Anonymous User]

School range: Tier 2
Market(s): WI; MN
Approx. class rank: Top 20%
Law review: No
Work experience: Yes
IP background: No
Anything else that might have an impact?: RA position; 1L clerkship (at small, >25 lawyer firm)
Self-assessed interview ability (1-10): 8
Screening Interviews: 24
Mass mails: 0
Callbacks received: 2
Callbacks accepted: 2
Offers w/vault ranges: 0
Market-Paying Offers: 1

[sperry]

[For median people targeting NYC at Penn this year, I'd say the average # of callbacks was probably around 7-9. I know below median kids with more than that for NYC too.

I don't think that's even remotely close to true. Some median folks might have gotten 7-9 callbacks but average would have been significantly lower.

Do you go to Penn? If so what would you say the average was?

Yes I go to Penn. I couldn't say for certain what the average would be, but I know way too many medianish with 0-3 callbacks for the average to be anywhere close to 7-9. If you were median with some relevant work experience, you probably did fine at OCI, but still not 8 callbacks on average.

[Veyron]

[For median people targeting NYC at Penn this year, I'd say the average # of callbacks was probably around 7-9. I know below median kids with more than that for NYC too.

I don't think that's even remotely close to true. Some median folks might have gotten 7-9 callbacks but average would have been significantly lower.

Do you go to Penn? If so what would you say the average was?

Yes I go to Penn. I couldn't say for certain what the average would be, but I know way too many medianish with 0-3 callbacks for the average to be anywhere close to 7-9. If you were median with some relevant work experience, you probably did fine at OCI, but still not 8 callbacks on average.

What is considered relevant work experience?

[Aqualibrium]

School range: Tier 2
Market(s): WI; MN
Approx. class rank: Top 20%
Law review: No
Work experience: Yes
IP background: No
Anything else that might have an impact?: RA position; 1L clerkship (at small, >25 lawyer firm)
Self-assessed interview ability (1-10): 8
Screening Interviews: 24
Mass mails: 0
Callbacks received: 2
Callbacks accepted: 2
Offers w/vault ranges: 0
Market-Paying Offers: 1

So a 98% failure rate = 8/10 interview ability?

[RVP11]

School range: Tier 2
Market(s): WI; MN
Approx. class rank: Top 20%
Law review: No
Work experience: Yes
IP background: No
Anything else that might have an impact?: RA position; 1L clerkship (at small, >25 lawyer firm)
Self-assessed interview ability (1-10): 8
Screening Interviews: 24
Mass mails: 0
Callbacks received: 2
Callbacks accepted: 2
Offers w/vault ranges: 0
Market-Paying Offers: 1

So a 98% failure rate = 8/10 interview ability?

With only top 20% at a tier 2, getting ANY market-paying callbacks = good interviewing.

[Aqualibrium]

School range: Tier 2
Market(s): WI; MN
Approx. class rank: Top 20%
Law review: No
Work experience: Yes
IP background: No
Anything else that might have an impact?: RA position; 1L clerkship (at small, >25 lawyer firm)
Self-assessed interview ability (1-10): 8
Screening Interviews: 24
Mass mails: 0
Callbacks received: 2
Callbacks accepted: 2
Offers w/vault ranges: 0
Market-Paying Offers: 1

So a 98% failure rate = 8/10 interview ability?

With only top 20% at a tier 2, getting ANY market-paying callbacks = good interviewing.

I was going to say perhaps I was overvaluing his/her stats...Is it really that bad that a person who legitimately interviews well can't get a job with those stats in the immediate vicinity of their school?

[Veyron]

School range: Tier 2
Market(s): WI; MN
Approx. class rank: Top 20%
Law review: No
Work experience: Yes
IP background: No
Anything else that might have an impact?: RA position; 1L clerkship (at small, >25 lawyer firm)
Self-assessed interview ability (1-10): 8
Screening Interviews: 24
Mass mails: 0
Callbacks received: 2
Callbacks accepted: 2
Offers w/vault ranges: 0
Market-Paying Offers: 1

So a 98% failure rate = 8/10 interview ability?

With only top 20% at a tier 2, getting ANY market-paying callbacks = good interviewing.

TITCR - DAMN good interviewing.

[Lawl Shcool]

I was going to say perhaps I was overvaluing his/her stats...Is it really that bad that a person who legitimately interviews well can't get a job with those stats in the immediate vicinity of their school?

Yes. I don't know what it was like pre-ITE but I would guess that top 20% at a t2 was never in a good position for market paying gigs. If anything he is probably under-valuing his interviewing ability.

[Anonymous User]

School range: Berkeley Transfer
Market(s): SF, PDX, LA
Approx. class rank: T2, Top 3%
Law review: Secondary Journal
Work experience: Peace Corps type experience for a few years
IP background: No
Anything else that might have an impact?: N/A
Self-assessed interview ability (1-10): 6 (I thought I was an 8-9, but after all the dings, I'm doubting this. But hey, I received 6 callbacks...)
Screening Interviews: 36 (6 were from mass mailings at firms' offices)
Mass mails: 150 (targeted letters for practice area and region)
Callbacks received: 6
Callbacks accepted: 6
Offers w/vault ranges: 0
Market-Paying Offers: 0

Still heavily applying to federal govt. jobs and small firms. Never give up! This 200K degree has to be worth something!

[lovelaw27]

School range: Berkeley Transfer
Market(s): SF, PDX, LA
Approx. class rank: T2, Top 3%
Law review: Secondary Journal
Work experience: Peace Corps type experience for a few years
IP background: No
Anything else that might have an impact?: N/A
Self-assessed interview ability (1-10): 6 (I thought I was an 8-9, but after all the dings, I'm doubting this. But hey, I received 6 callbacks...)
Screening Interviews: 36 (6 were from mass mailings at firms' offices)
Mass mails: 150 (targeted letters for practice area and region)
Callbacks received: 6
Callbacks accepted: 6
Offers w/vault ranges: 0
Market-Paying Offers: 0

Still heavily applying to federal govt. jobs and small firms. Never give up! This 200K degree has to be worth something!

Are you from SF, or LA, or at least CA?

[Anonymous User]

Born and raised in SF, Lived in PDX (high school), and Father was attorney in SF for 20 years.

[Anonymous User]

And both parents grew up in LA, and my cousins still live there. I had no problems with connections. I wouldn't try to analyze it too much. I'm a social guy. I played 4 sports and an instrument in high school. I participated in clubs in college. I have lots of service background. I worked at a law firm last summer. My writing sample came from the best brief 1L year. All that I can tell is that I must have done something wrong during the callbacks. However, I don't think that I'm horrible at interviewing - I did receive 6 callbacks. They must have liked something that I did. Who knows.

[Anonymous User]

And both parents grew up in LA, and my cousins still live there. I had no problems with connections. I wouldn't try to analyze it too much. I'm a social guy. I played 4 sports and an instrument in high school. I participated in clubs in college. I have lots of service background. I worked at a law firm last summer. My writing sample came from the best brief 1L year. All that I can tell is that I must have done something wrong during the callbacks. However, I don't think that I'm horrible at interviewing - I did receive 6 callbacks. They must have liked something that I did. Who knows.

You don't need to have done something "wrong" to not get an offer - you just weren't in the top X number of people they interviewed for callbacks. The California summer class sizes are tiny and firms callback far more people than they need. I didn't interview for CA offices, but I found that getting callbacks during OCI was much easier than getting offers. [I think this is probably true for many people unless they have top grades from a T-14 (top 25%+), an IP background, or have a really unique background like military experience or other unusual WE.] Most of the time you are competing against 4+ other people for one position at the callback stage.

[Aqualibrium]

And both parents grew up in LA, and my cousins still live there. I had no problems with connections. I wouldn't try to analyze it too much. I'm a social guy. I played 4 sports and an instrument in high school. I participated in clubs in college. I have lots of service background. I worked at a law firm last summer. My writing sample came from the best brief 1L year. All that I can tell is that I must have done something wrong during the callbacks. However, I don't think that I'm horrible at interviewing - I did receive 6 callbacks. They must have liked something that I did. Who knows.

I really wish you the best of luck. I'm amazed at the way you seem to be handling all this. Do you regret the transfer at all?

[Anonymous User]

What is considered relevant work experience?

I also go to Penn and agree that the OCI was not good for those at or above median, but without work experience or LR. I don't think the type of work experience matters that much - some of the big firms probably like corporate experience since those are their clients.

I was just outside the top 1/3 (no WE or LR) and only got 2 CB's from OCI firms and 2 CB's outside of OCI. I didn't even bid for the most prestigious firms. Of all that, I was able to get 1 offer (smaller firm in a practice area that I like), but not from OCI.

[Anonymous User]

What is considered relevant work experience?

I also go to Penn and agree that the OCI was not good for those at or above median, but without work experience or LR. I don't think the type of work experience matters that much - some of the big firms probably like corporate experience since those are their clients.

I was just outside the top 1/3 (no WE or LR) and only got 2 CB's from OCI firms and 2 CB's outside of OCI. I didn't even bid for the most prestigious firms. Of all that, I was able to get 1 offer (smaller firm in a practice area that I like), but not from OCI.

I have "top half but not top quarter" grades at a T14 and got zip in SF (despite mega-ties). I am having trouble recovering, and I am starting to wonder if the lack of a journal is my issue. It seems stupid to me: if it's not just a coincidental indicator of grades...are they really choosing it for the experience? You just cite-check. I'm using the 10-15 hours a week to do internships that are all research/writing and otherwise piling on the experience. I think it's going to do a lot more for me than law review would. But I could see BigLaw automatically deciding that it's not as "prestigious".