Milbank/Davis Polk/Cravath Scale: NYC to 215-415k Forum

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Re: Milbank/Davis Polk/Cravath Scale: NYC to 215-415k

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Mar 24, 2022 3:14 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Mar 22, 2022 2:24 pm
Sackboy wrote:
Tue Mar 22, 2022 2:07 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Mar 22, 2022 11:34 am
Skadden isn't on the same "trajectory" as KE/Latham because it tried but failed to do what both those firms have done. To give Skadden its credit, it was KE/Latham before those firms were those firms, if that makes sense--meaning in many ways it pioneered the model that KE and Latham took and ran with to an extreme. But where Skadden petered out those firms took the torch and have run with it. I think one of the more telling statistics evincing this point is that Skadden's headcount has never returned to its 2008 peak, even 14 years after the fact. Nothing wrong with any of that--Skadden is still a great firm, highly profitable, and has billions in revenue; but I think it's fair to say it didn't achieve what it thought it would achieve if you talked to firm leadership circa 2005 and asked them to predict the next 15 years.
Kind of silly to say that Skadden pioneered the KE/Latham model when it only has equity partners that are promoted after 8-12 years and they have a very securities/pubco oriented practice. Skadden is much closer to the white shoe firms than it is to Latham/KE, imo.
Yea, Skadden's def considered more in line with the typical white shoe firms than KE/Latham are. All great firms to be sure, but just saying. They're also a lot more grade/fit selective at my T-14 than KE/Latham
lol at the idea of Skadden being selective.

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Re: Milbank/Davis Polk/Cravath Scale: NYC to 215-415k

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Mar 24, 2022 3:56 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Mar 24, 2022 3:14 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Mar 22, 2022 2:24 pm
Sackboy wrote:
Tue Mar 22, 2022 2:07 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Mar 22, 2022 11:34 am
Skadden isn't on the same "trajectory" as KE/Latham because it tried but failed to do what both those firms have done. To give Skadden its credit, it was KE/Latham before those firms were those firms, if that makes sense--meaning in many ways it pioneered the model that KE and Latham took and ran with to an extreme. But where Skadden petered out those firms took the torch and have run with it. I think one of the more telling statistics evincing this point is that Skadden's headcount has never returned to its 2008 peak, even 14 years after the fact. Nothing wrong with any of that--Skadden is still a great firm, highly profitable, and has billions in revenue; but I think it's fair to say it didn't achieve what it thought it would achieve if you talked to firm leadership circa 2005 and asked them to predict the next 15 years.
Kind of silly to say that Skadden pioneered the KE/Latham model when it only has equity partners that are promoted after 8-12 years and they have a very securities/pubco oriented practice. Skadden is much closer to the white shoe firms than it is to Latham/KE, imo.
Yea, Skadden's def considered more in line with the typical white shoe firms than KE/Latham are. All great firms to be sure, but just saying. They're also a lot more grade/fit selective at my T-14 than KE/Latham
lol at the idea of Skadden being selective.
Presumably you mean NYC, but you would need to clarify which region for this to be remotely helpful bc this is not the case at my t14 (and know it’s not true in the south and west)

Anonymous User
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Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Milbank/Davis Polk/Cravath Scale: NYC to 215-415k

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Mar 24, 2022 4:20 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Mar 24, 2022 3:56 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Mar 24, 2022 3:14 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Mar 22, 2022 2:24 pm
Sackboy wrote:
Tue Mar 22, 2022 2:07 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Mar 22, 2022 11:34 am
Skadden isn't on the same "trajectory" as KE/Latham because it tried but failed to do what both those firms have done. To give Skadden its credit, it was KE/Latham before those firms were those firms, if that makes sense--meaning in many ways it pioneered the model that KE and Latham took and ran with to an extreme. But where Skadden petered out those firms took the torch and have run with it. I think one of the more telling statistics evincing this point is that Skadden's headcount has never returned to its 2008 peak, even 14 years after the fact. Nothing wrong with any of that--Skadden is still a great firm, highly profitable, and has billions in revenue; but I think it's fair to say it didn't achieve what it thought it would achieve if you talked to firm leadership circa 2005 and asked them to predict the next 15 years.
Kind of silly to say that Skadden pioneered the KE/Latham model when it only has equity partners that are promoted after 8-12 years and they have a very securities/pubco oriented practice. Skadden is much closer to the white shoe firms than it is to Latham/KE, imo.
Yea, Skadden's def considered more in line with the typical white shoe firms than KE/Latham are. All great firms to be sure, but just saying. They're also a lot more grade/fit selective at my T-14 than KE/Latham
lol at the idea of Skadden being selective.
Presumably you mean NYC, but you would need to clarify which region for this to be remotely helpful bc this is not the case at my t14 (and know it’s not true in the south and west)
Everybody who posts a sweeping statement is referring to M&A practice in NYC and/or their experience at either Harvard or Columbia. The rest of the world does not exist to them.

2013

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Posts: 931
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:29 am

Re: Milbank/Davis Polk/Cravath Scale: NYC to 215-415k

Post by 2013 » Thu Mar 24, 2022 4:36 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Mar 24, 2022 4:20 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Mar 24, 2022 3:56 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Mar 24, 2022 3:14 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Mar 22, 2022 2:24 pm
Sackboy wrote:
Tue Mar 22, 2022 2:07 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Mar 22, 2022 11:34 am
Skadden isn't on the same "trajectory" as KE/Latham because it tried but failed to do what both those firms have done. To give Skadden its credit, it was KE/Latham before those firms were those firms, if that makes sense--meaning in many ways it pioneered the model that KE and Latham took and ran with to an extreme. But where Skadden petered out those firms took the torch and have run with it. I think one of the more telling statistics evincing this point is that Skadden's headcount has never returned to its 2008 peak, even 14 years after the fact. Nothing wrong with any of that--Skadden is still a great firm, highly profitable, and has billions in revenue; but I think it's fair to say it didn't achieve what it thought it would achieve if you talked to firm leadership circa 2005 and asked them to predict the next 15 years.
Kind of silly to say that Skadden pioneered the KE/Latham model when it only has equity partners that are promoted after 8-12 years and they have a very securities/pubco oriented practice. Skadden is much closer to the white shoe firms than it is to Latham/KE, imo.
Yea, Skadden's def considered more in line with the typical white shoe firms than KE/Latham are. All great firms to be sure, but just saying. They're also a lot more grade/fit selective at my T-14 than KE/Latham
lol at the idea of Skadden being selective.
Presumably you mean NYC, but you would need to clarify which region for this to be remotely helpful bc this is not the case at my t14 (and know it’s not true in the south and west)
Everybody who posts a sweeping statement is referring to M&A practice in NYC and/or their experience at either Harvard or Columbia. The rest of the world does not exist to them.
HYS has been replaced with HC

Anonymous User
Posts: 432497
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Milbank/Davis Polk/Cravath Scale: NYC to 215-415k

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Mar 24, 2022 4:47 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Mar 24, 2022 3:14 am

lol at the idea of Skadden being selective.
People just say things huh

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Anonymous User
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Re: Milbank/Davis Polk/Cravath Scale: NYC to 215-415k

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Mar 24, 2022 5:07 pm

Hunton Andrews Kurth matched Cravath and added special bonuses

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Re: Milbank/Davis Polk/Cravath Scale: NYC to 215-415k

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Mar 24, 2022 6:35 pm

The Hunton Andrews Kurth match feels pretty significant for what might happen in smaller markets since they are based in Richmond, Virginia.

2013

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Re: Milbank/Davis Polk/Cravath Scale: NYC to 215-415k

Post by 2013 » Thu Mar 24, 2022 6:42 pm

HAK didn’t do anything. Those are bonuses that the rest of us got 4 months ago.

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Re: Milbank/Davis Polk/Cravath Scale: NYC to 215-415k

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Mar 24, 2022 6:52 pm

2013 wrote:
Thu Mar 24, 2022 6:42 pm
HAK didn’t do anything. Those are bonuses that the rest of us got 4 months ago.
What bonuses are you talking about? The bonuses they just announced are on top of the bonuses from last year (I think DPW started) that are getting paid out in April, as opposed to late 2021 for most firms.

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2013

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Re: Milbank/Davis Polk/Cravath Scale: NYC to 215-415k

Post by 2013 » Thu Mar 24, 2022 6:54 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Mar 24, 2022 6:52 pm
2013 wrote:
Thu Mar 24, 2022 6:42 pm
HAK didn’t do anything. Those are bonuses that the rest of us got 4 months ago.
What bonuses are you talking about? The bonuses they just announced are on top of the bonuses from last year (I think DPW started) that are getting paid out in April, as opposed to late 2021 for most firms.
… our “special” year end bonuses from DPW on top of Cravath.

Anonymous User
Posts: 432497
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Milbank/Davis Polk/Cravath Scale: NYC to 215-415k

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Mar 24, 2022 7:16 pm

2013 wrote:
Thu Mar 24, 2022 6:54 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Mar 24, 2022 6:52 pm
2013 wrote:
Thu Mar 24, 2022 6:42 pm
HAK didn’t do anything. Those are bonuses that the rest of us got 4 months ago.
What bonuses are you talking about? The bonuses they just announced are on top of the bonuses from last year (I think DPW started) that are getting paid out in April, as opposed to late 2021 for most firms.
… our “special” year end bonuses from DPW on top of Cravath.
You're right. They're just behind because their FY starts April 1. My bad for listening to ATL's reporting.

Anonymous User
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Re: Milbank/Davis Polk/Cravath Scale: NYC to 215-415k

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Mar 24, 2022 7:18 pm

Alston & Bird matched today for all US offices, retroactive to January 1.

Anonymous User
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Re: Milbank/Davis Polk/Cravath Scale: NYC to 215-415k

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Mar 25, 2022 12:58 pm

Baker Botts matched for US offices, but only retroactive to March 1.

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Anonymous User
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Re: Milbank/Davis Polk/Cravath Scale: NYC to 215-415k

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Mar 25, 2022 2:26 pm

Fish & Richardson match

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Re: Milbank/Davis Polk/Cravath Scale: NYC to 215-415k

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Mar 25, 2022 4:51 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Mar 24, 2022 7:18 pm
Alston & Bird matched today for all US offices, retroactive to January 1.
With K&S and A&B matching, what's going on with Eversheds in Atlanta?

Anonymous User
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Re: Milbank/Davis Polk/Cravath Scale: NYC to 215-415k

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Mar 26, 2022 2:53 am

2013 wrote:
Thu Mar 24, 2022 4:36 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Mar 24, 2022 4:20 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Mar 24, 2022 3:56 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Mar 24, 2022 3:14 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Mar 22, 2022 2:24 pm
Sackboy wrote:
Tue Mar 22, 2022 2:07 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Mar 22, 2022 11:34 am
Skadden isn't on the same "trajectory" as KE/Latham because it tried but failed to do what both those firms have done. To give Skadden its credit, it was KE/Latham before those firms were those firms, if that makes sense--meaning in many ways it pioneered the model that KE and Latham took and ran with to an extreme. But where Skadden petered out those firms took the torch and have run with it. I think one of the more telling statistics evincing this point is that Skadden's headcount has never returned to its 2008 peak, even 14 years after the fact. Nothing wrong with any of that--Skadden is still a great firm, highly profitable, and has billions in revenue; but I think it's fair to say it didn't achieve what it thought it would achieve if you talked to firm leadership circa 2005 and asked them to predict the next 15 years.
Kind of silly to say that Skadden pioneered the KE/Latham model when it only has equity partners that are promoted after 8-12 years and they have a very securities/pubco oriented practice. Skadden is much closer to the white shoe firms than it is to Latham/KE, imo.
Yea, Skadden's def considered more in line with the typical white shoe firms than KE/Latham are. All great firms to be sure, but just saying. They're also a lot more grade/fit selective at my T-14 than KE/Latham
lol at the idea of Skadden being selective.
Presumably you mean NYC, but you would need to clarify which region for this to be remotely helpful bc this is not the case at my t14 (and know it’s not true in the south and west)
Everybody who posts a sweeping statement is referring to M&A practice in NYC and/or their experience at either Harvard or Columbia. The rest of the world does not exist to them.
HYS has been replaced with HC
Because these are the most common kind. More like CCN has been replaced by HCN. with YS are in a different tier. Harvard is far closer to Columbia in every aspect than Yale Stanford or even Chicago.

Anonymous User
Posts: 432497
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Milbank/Davis Polk/Cravath Scale: NYC to 215-415k

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Mar 26, 2022 3:57 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Mar 25, 2022 2:26 pm
Fish & Richardson match
That took way too long. At a competitor that should hopefully raise soon..

Have to laugh at Fish raising the billable requirement too.

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Anonymous User
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Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Milbank/Davis Polk/Cravath Scale: NYC to 215-415k

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Mar 26, 2022 4:58 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Mar 26, 2022 3:57 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Mar 25, 2022 2:26 pm
Fish & Richardson match
That took way too long. At a competitor that should hopefully raise soon..

Have to laugh at Fish raising the billable requirement too.
I didn’t realize some firms have hours requirements for salary. I saw Holland & Knight’s announcement, and it looks like it has a 1900 hour requirement for the salary. What happens if you bill below that? Do you not move up in class?

Anonymous User
Posts: 432497
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Milbank/Davis Polk/Cravath Scale: NYC to 215-415k

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Mar 26, 2022 5:51 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Mar 26, 2022 4:58 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Mar 26, 2022 3:57 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Mar 25, 2022 2:26 pm
Fish & Richardson match
That took way too long. At a competitor that should hopefully raise soon..

Have to laugh at Fish raising the billable requirement too.
I didn’t realize some firms have hours requirements for salary. I saw Holland & Knight’s announcement, and it looks like it has a 1900 hour requirement for the salary. What happens if you bill below that? Do you not move up in class?
I took the announcement to mean that year 3+ associates wouldn’t get an increase to the new Cravath scale (i.e., they’d stay on the old DPW scale) if they didn’t hit 1900 hours. H&K is keeping several of its offices on the old DPW scale, so this makes sense.

It comes off as very cheap for H&K to not match for all offices and to tie the match to hours. H&K isn’t even going to pay the new market scale in Tampa, where it’s HQ’d, and which had higher increases in rent in 2021 than any other US city. And this isn’t just their bonus structure that they’re tying to hours—they’re tying their base salary scale to hours now.

Link to the firm’s memo on ATL:
https://abovethelaw.com/2022/03/hk-raises-22/2/

ETA: when H&K matched the old DPW scale, it did so in all offices, so they’re breaking away from their previous moves.

Anonymous User
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Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Milbank/Davis Polk/Cravath Scale: NYC to 215-415k

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Mar 27, 2022 4:43 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Mar 26, 2022 2:53 am
2013 wrote:
Thu Mar 24, 2022 4:36 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Mar 24, 2022 4:20 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Mar 24, 2022 3:56 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Mar 24, 2022 3:14 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Mar 22, 2022 2:24 pm
Sackboy wrote:
Tue Mar 22, 2022 2:07 pm


Kind of silly to say that Skadden pioneered the KE/Latham model when it only has equity partners that are promoted after 8-12 years and they have a very securities/pubco oriented practice. Skadden is much closer to the white shoe firms than it is to Latham/KE, imo.
Yea, Skadden's def considered more in line with the typical white shoe firms than KE/Latham are. All great firms to be sure, but just saying. They're also a lot more grade/fit selective at my T-14 than KE/Latham
lol at the idea of Skadden being selective.
Presumably you mean NYC, but you would need to clarify which region for this to be remotely helpful bc this is not the case at my t14 (and know it’s not true in the south and west)
Everybody who posts a sweeping statement is referring to M&A practice in NYC and/or their experience at either Harvard or Columbia. The rest of the world does not exist to them.
HYS has been replaced with HC
Because these are the most common (and the loudest) kind. More like CCN has been replaced by HCN. YS are in a different tier of their own. Harvard is far closer to Columbia and NYU in every aspect (selectivity, class size, outcome etc.) than Yale Stanford or even Chicago.

Anonymous User
Posts: 432497
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Milbank/Davis Polk/Cravath Scale: NYC to 215-415k

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Mar 28, 2022 9:23 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Mar 26, 2022 2:53 am
2013 wrote:
Thu Mar 24, 2022 4:36 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Mar 24, 2022 4:20 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Mar 24, 2022 3:56 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Mar 24, 2022 3:14 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Mar 22, 2022 2:24 pm
Sackboy wrote:
Tue Mar 22, 2022 2:07 pm


Kind of silly to say that Skadden pioneered the KE/Latham model when it only has equity partners that are promoted after 8-12 years and they have a very securities/pubco oriented practice. Skadden is much closer to the white shoe firms than it is to Latham/KE, imo.
Yea, Skadden's def considered more in line with the typical white shoe firms than KE/Latham are. All great firms to be sure, but just saying. They're also a lot more grade/fit selective at my T-14 than KE/Latham
lol at the idea of Skadden being selective.
Presumably you mean NYC, but you would need to clarify which region for this to be remotely helpful bc this is not the case at my t14 (and know it’s not true in the south and west)
Everybody who posts a sweeping statement is referring to M&A practice in NYC and/or their experience at either Harvard or Columbia. The rest of the world does not exist to them.
HYS has been replaced with HC
Because these are the most common kind. More like CCN has been replaced by HCN. with YS are in a different tier. Harvard is far closer to Columbia in every aspect than Yale Stanford or even Chicago.
Backed up by new US news rankings.

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Anonymous User
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Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Milbank/Davis Polk/Cravath Scale: NYC to 215-415k

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Mar 29, 2022 2:29 pm

In case anyone is interested, the summer associates at DPW are getting paid the 215k salary, so it appears that they maybe ditched the stub thing.


Anonymous User
Posts: 432497
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Milbank/Davis Polk/Cravath Scale: NYC to 215-415k

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Mar 29, 2022 4:14 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Mar 29, 2022 4:02 pm
Jones Day to 225???
That's flame, they are still below market. With the annual bonus, first years should get $235k all in comp.

Anonymous User
Posts: 432497
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Milbank/Davis Polk/Cravath Scale: NYC to 215-415k

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Mar 29, 2022 8:18 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Mar 28, 2022 9:23 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Mar 26, 2022 2:53 am
2013 wrote:
Thu Mar 24, 2022 4:36 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Mar 24, 2022 4:20 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Mar 24, 2022 3:56 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Mar 24, 2022 3:14 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Mar 22, 2022 2:24 pm


Yea, Skadden's def considered more in line with the typical white shoe firms than KE/Latham are. All great firms to be sure, but just saying. They're also a lot more grade/fit selective at my T-14 than KE/Latham
lol at the idea of Skadden being selective.
Presumably you mean NYC, but you would need to clarify which region for this to be remotely helpful bc this is not the case at my t14 (and know it’s not true in the south and west)
Everybody who posts a sweeping statement is referring to M&A practice in NYC and/or their experience at either Harvard or Columbia. The rest of the world does not exist to them.
HYS has been replaced with HC
Because these are the most common kind. More like CCN has been replaced by HCN. with YS are in a different tier. Harvard is far closer to Columbia in every aspect than Yale Stanford or even Chicago.
Backed up by new US news rankings.
Well Harvard is still more selective than Chicago and Columbia (and in terms of medians still beats Stanford), but who knows how long that will last.

Seriously? What are you waiting for?

Now there's a charge.
Just kidding ... it's still FREE!


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