NY GOES TO 180k! IT HAPPENED!!!! (CovingTTTon does a 180! Holder wept.) Forum

[TLSModBot]

http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2016/06/07/mil ... es-raises/

Milbank chairman Scott Edelman put it simply: “We want them to be paid consistent with what the top firms pay.” Mr. Edelman said the firm’s 450 associates weren’t agitating for a pay raise. Pressed on whether Milbank had considered making its own pay bump before Cravath’s move, Mr. Edelman said, “At the end of the day, it always seems like some competitor is more eager to increase pay than us.”

Man, this sounds quite resentful

Tone-deaf partner sulking is one of the best parts of associate raises. This is nothing compared to what we'll see soon.

[terpie]

I thought someone would post that. They did that after they axed their summer class to save money... They needed a way to build classes after that. They're still saving money. They also require billing 10 hrs to take a taxi home. Doesn't matter if you did pro bono from 8 til noon and then got slammed at 1 and worked non-stop until 10:30pm. You're SOL.

Wouldn't axing their summer program--and the need to build classes--provide some motivation for them to beat Cravath? I'm not saying it will happen, but unless they are content to hire almost exclusively clerks, a slightly higher salary could be a way to build classes. Comparing forms of comp is more relevant than comparing seamless or taxis.

This assumes Cravath and the market would not match. In which case, QE just increased their costs for nothing. I may be wrong, but outside of clerk signing comp, which is explained away by the axing of their summer program as an overall cost cut, everything seems to indicate QE is not interested in being a market leader and prefers to cut costs whenever possible. Although they easily could be a comp leader if they chose to.

[lonerider]

I thought someone would post that. They did that after they axed their summer class to save money... They needed a way to build classes after that. They're still saving money. They also require billing 10 hrs to take a taxi home. Doesn't matter if you did pro bono from 8 til noon and then got slammed at 1 and worked non-stop until 10:30pm. You're SOL.

Wouldn't axing their summer program--and the need to build classes--provide some motivation for them to beat Cravath? I'm not saying it will happen, but unless they are content to hire almost exclusively clerks, a slightly higher salary could be a way to build classes. Comparing forms of comp is more relevant than comparing seamless or taxis.

2 points:1. Quinn's PPP is down 10% from last year. 2. Paying higher than market is a great recruiting tool, except that the only way to do that is if you're a boutique. Because once a big firm pays above market then that becomes market. So no recruiting advantage.

[lonerider]

http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2016/06/07/mil ... es-raises/

Milbank chairman Scott Edelman put it simply: “We want them to be paid consistent with what the top firms pay.” Mr. Edelman said the firm’s 450 associates weren’t agitating for a pay raise. Pressed on whether Milbank had considered making its own pay bump before Cravath’s move, Mr. Edelman said, “At the end of the day, it always seems like some competitor is more eager to increase pay than us.”

Man, this sounds quite resentful

Tone-deaf partner sulking is one of the best parts of associate raises. This is nothing compared to what we'll see soon.

That quote was meant for clients to hear.

[Tiago Splitter]

How dumb do partners think clients are? The idea that high billing rates are a product of high associate salaries is as dumb as thinking that baseball tickets would be cheaper if only the players made less.

[TLSModBot]

How dumb do partners think clients are? The idea that high billing rates are a product of high associate salaries is as dumb as thinking that baseball tickets would be cheaper if only the players made less.

Eh, salaries are the major expense for law firms, and partner profit literally = (all income) - (all expenses), so they're not exactly unrelated.

But yeah firms aren't just going to be able to raise rates and peg it to increased associate salaries. I mean, they'll try, but there will be pushback on realization that will mostly or completely negate the rate changes.

[TheoO]

But what if the raises are universal? It would seem more reasonable to expect at least a slight raise in rates in that scenario.

[Johann]

How dumb do partners think clients are? The idea that high billing rates are a product of high associate salaries is as dumb as thinking that baseball tickets would be cheaper if only the players made less.

clients were pissed about the 2014 bonuses. its an expense they dont want to pay especially re the 1st and 2nd years.

[Johann]

But what if the raises are universal? It would seem more reasonable to expect at least a slight raise in rates in that scenario.

rates have been going up the last 10 years. they will keep going up.

[patentlitigatrix]

But what if the raises are universal? It would seem more reasonable to expect at least a slight raise in rates in that scenario.

Or raise rates and then offer "special" discount bringing the rates back to what they were before. Clients love discounts more than lower rates. It's dumb, but I think having lower base rates makes you look like you are providing a lesser service. This reminds me I need to do pre-bills. The worst.

[Anonymous User]

How dumb do partners think clients are? The idea that high billing rates are a product of high associate salaries is as dumb as thinking that baseball tickets would be cheaper if only the players made less.

Eh, salaries are the major expense for law firms, and partner profit literally = (all income) - (all expenses), so they're not exactly unrelated.

But yeah firms aren't just going to be able to raise rates and peg it to increased associate salaries. I mean, they'll try, but there will be pushback on realization that will mostly or completely negate the rate changes.

They've been raising rates for a while. I'm C/O 2013 and I'm billing out at around $700/hr. A decade ago, it would have been sub-$500.

[blahblewblah]

I thought someone would post that. They did that after they axed their summer class to save money... They needed a way to build classes after that. They're still saving money. They also require billing 10 hrs to take a taxi home. Doesn't matter if you did pro bono from 8 til noon and then got slammed at 1 and worked non-stop until 10:30pm. You're SOL.

Wouldn't axing their summer program--and the need to build classes--provide some motivation for them to beat Cravath? I'm not saying it will happen, but unless they are content to hire almost exclusively clerks, a slightly higher salary could be a way to build classes. Comparing forms of comp is more relevant than comparing seamless or taxis.

2 points:1. Quinn's PPP is down 10% from last year. 2. Paying higher than market is a great recruiting tool, except that the only way to do that is if you're a boutique. Because once a big firm pays above market then that becomes market. So no recruiting advantage.

1. Quinn's PPP are sufficiently high to beat market, regardless of recent performance.
2. Setting higher than market comp does not necessarily mean that will become the market. Quinn's clerkship bonus has been matched by some firms but does not appear to be "market" yet. Also, Quinn certainly has the PPP to beat market if they want. Moreover, after getting rid of their summer program, they have however much (~$30k at least) saved by not having the candidate summer with the firm. So all else equal, they have at least some more flexibility to spend a little more money. Simply, at some point, not every firm is going to be able to match.

Again, not saying it will happen, but certainly not out of the realm of possibility.

[TLSModBot]

How dumb do partners think clients are? The idea that high billing rates are a product of high associate salaries is as dumb as thinking that baseball tickets would be cheaper if only the players made less.

Eh, salaries are the major expense for law firms, and partner profit literally = (all income) - (all expenses), so they're not exactly unrelated.

But yeah firms aren't just going to be able to raise rates and peg it to increased associate salaries. I mean, they'll try, but there will be pushback on realization that will mostly or completely negate the rate changes.

They've been raising rates for a while. I'm C/O 2013 and I'm billing out at around $700/hr. A decade ago, it would have been sub-$500.

"Standard Rates" have been raising but actually billed rates have risen WAY lower and collection rates have dropped. See this report on the Legal Market for more info (pgs. 5-6)

All things taken together, actual rate growth is somewhere around 1.5%

[Anonymous User]

if our firms don't match as incoming first years, is it possible to lateral?

[Anonymous User]

if our firms don't match as incoming first years, is it possible to lateral?

[TLSModBot]

if our firms don't match as incoming first years, is it possible to lateral?

Sure but you'll fighting every single peer at your firm plus all the other associates at non-matching firms. Best to play it safe and wait the rest of the week for the first movers to all come out, then start preparing to move firms ASAP before you even start at your current firm.

eta: Make sure to notify your firm that you're looking elsewhere (to give them the hint to move to 180!)

[BigZuck]

if our firms don't match as incoming first years, is it possible to lateral?

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but that is literally impossible, unfortunately.

[Anonymous User]

Expect one of the Texas big 3 to match by the end of next week.

[Anonymous User]

Expect one of the Texas big 3 to match by the end of next week.

Source??

[Br3v]

if our firms don't match as incoming first years, is it possible to lateral?

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but that is literally impossible, unfortunately.

This is a joke, OP

[yogotti]

Expect one of the Texas big 3 to match by the end of next week.

From your lips to God's ears!

[abitaman6363]

Expect one of the Texas big 3 to match by the end of next week.

One would hope.

[Anonymous User]

Weil matched

[Anonymous User]

Expect one of the Texas big 3 to match by the end of next week.

No way. They are hurting pretty bad right now. If any matches come in TX it will be from Latham/K&E/STB and the like. Maybe the TX firms will match then, but I can't imagine them offering up a match without any pressure from their direct competition.

[BigZuck]

if our firms don't match as incoming first years, is it possible to lateral?

Sure but you'll fighting every single peer at your firm plus all the other associates at non-matching firms. Best to play it safe and wait the rest of the week for the first movers to all come out, then start preparing to move firms ASAP before you even start at your current firm.

eta: Make sure to notify your firm that you're looking elsewhere (to give them the hint to move to 180!)

This is a joke, Br3v