Milbank/Davis Polk/Cravath Scale: NYC to 215-415k Forum

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Re: Milbank/Davis Polk/Cravath Scale: NYC to 215-415k

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Mar 14, 2022 9:58 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Mar 14, 2022 6:56 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Mar 14, 2022 2:25 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Mar 14, 2022 1:33 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Mar 13, 2022 11:12 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Mar 13, 2022 12:46 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Mar 12, 2022 11:16 pm
Are lit boutiques really more profitable than corporate practices? Seems doubtful, considering that lit is the weakest practice in biglaw, and biglaw litigators are no slouches. Or are above market boutiques just more comfortable with sharing the wealth with associates in the name of prestige?
The latter. Biglaw corporate is certainly more profitable, but associates are viewed mostly as replaceable chattel with mediocre credentials, so no real reason to start overpaying them. Lit boutiques actually care about IQ and credentials, so need to pay a premium to get that.
But associates generally have the same credentials (unless you don't mean school/grades/clerkships) as the partners they're working for.
Yes, but in corporate biglaw the partners control the client relationships, and it doesn't really matter how stupid or uncharismatic they are, as long as they can get the work done and make the client happy. All they need from associates is warm bodies to grind out basic work, and IQ is hardly that important. Litigation boutiques operate in a very different market, where clients care a lot about how smart and well credentialed the associates are (and the same for the partners), and masses of mediocre warm bodies don't have much value. The nature of grindy M&A and high-end litigation is just vastly different - litigators need to be able to write sharp and coherent briefs, M&A associates need to be able to stay up all night over and over again to put together mind-numbing diligence memos that a trained monkey could do.
Have you ever read a merger agreement? Your characterization that all M&A work is simple is totally off--sure some of it is at the junior levels, but at the mid and senior associate and partner levels it is absolutely intellectually challenging and super complicated.
As a V20 5th year M&A associate, I confirm drafting work is intellectually challenging and complicated, but not so much as you described. A lot of it still copying and pasting. So not so simple as that other poster described, but not so challenging as you described either. I still think a high school graduate with good IQ and work ethic can be trained to be a good corporate associate.

I think the poster that talked about the "grindy M&A" is either a litigation associate or M&A junior associate that has no idea what he or she's talking about.
There is nothing remotely comparable in the M&A field to the depth and complexity of drafting a USSC brief or arguing a complex case at the circuit court level. M&A could basically be done by a well trained monkey, and I am including even the partner level work. And don't get me wrong, I hate litigation and would never do it, and am not a junior, but being a corporate lawyer is an intellectual joke and is easier than graduating from high school.

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Re: Milbank/Davis Polk/Cravath Scale: NYC to 215-415k

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Mar 14, 2022 11:06 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Mar 14, 2022 9:58 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Mar 14, 2022 6:56 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Mar 14, 2022 2:25 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Mar 14, 2022 1:33 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Mar 13, 2022 11:12 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Mar 13, 2022 12:46 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Mar 12, 2022 11:16 pm
Are lit boutiques really more profitable than corporate practices? Seems doubtful, considering that lit is the weakest practice in biglaw, and biglaw litigators are no slouches. Or are above market boutiques just more comfortable with sharing the wealth with associates in the name of prestige?
The latter. Biglaw corporate is certainly more profitable, but associates are viewed mostly as replaceable chattel with mediocre credentials, so no real reason to start overpaying them. Lit boutiques actually care about IQ and credentials, so need to pay a premium to get that.
But associates generally have the same credentials (unless you don't mean school/grades/clerkships) as the partners they're working for.
Yes, but in corporate biglaw the partners control the client relationships, and it doesn't really matter how stupid or uncharismatic they are, as long as they can get the work done and make the client happy. All they need from associates is warm bodies to grind out basic work, and IQ is hardly that important. Litigation boutiques operate in a very different market, where clients care a lot about how smart and well credentialed the associates are (and the same for the partners), and masses of mediocre warm bodies don't have much value. The nature of grindy M&A and high-end litigation is just vastly different - litigators need to be able to write sharp and coherent briefs, M&A associates need to be able to stay up all night over and over again to put together mind-numbing diligence memos that a trained monkey could do.
Have you ever read a merger agreement? Your characterization that all M&A work is simple is totally off--sure some of it is at the junior levels, but at the mid and senior associate and partner levels it is absolutely intellectually challenging and super complicated.
As a V20 5th year M&A associate, I confirm drafting work is intellectually challenging and complicated, but not so much as you described. A lot of it still copying and pasting. So not so simple as that other poster described, but not so challenging as you described either. I still think a high school graduate with good IQ and work ethic can be trained to be a good corporate associate.

I think the poster that talked about the "grindy M&A" is either a litigation associate or M&A junior associate that has no idea what he or she's talking about.
There is nothing remotely comparable in the M&A field to the depth and complexity of drafting a USSC brief or arguing a complex case at the circuit court level. M&A could basically be done by a well trained monkey, and I am including even the partner level work. And don't get me wrong, I hate litigation and would never do it, and am not a junior, but being a corporate lawyer is an intellectual joke and is easier than graduating from high school.
My life would be so much easier if M&A were as easy and simple as you described. As a matter of fact, it's mind numbingly boring (but much less so than other corporate practice areas) and at the same time, quite intellectually challenging at times. You just haven't drafted and negotiated any merger agreement, SPA, asset purchase agreement, or shareholders' agreement. I felt like M&A was a donkey job until I became a fourth year myself.

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Re: Milbank/Davis Polk/Cravath Scale: NYC to 215-415k

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Mar 14, 2022 11:13 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Mar 14, 2022 9:15 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Mar 14, 2022 9:13 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Mar 14, 2022 9:11 am
Has Milbank still not yet re-matched the Cravath scale?
I don’t think so. S&C has not matched yet, either.
If Milbank doesn't match by the end of this week, I suspect they could be planning to re-raise or match with a special bonus. S&C and a few other firms, knowing that could happen, are remaining silent I think.
I agree. I think several firms, even several that previously matched this cycle, are waiting for Milbank to signal this has settled. What would really be disruptive is if Milbank matches and announces spring bonuses, and then we start all over again as everyone awaits DPW and Cravath to match or raise the bonuses.

objctnyrhnr

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Re: Milbank/Davis Polk/Cravath Scale: NYC to 215-415k

Post by objctnyrhnr » Mon Mar 14, 2022 11:17 am

So what are the v50s (or so), from which we have great evidence-based reason to expect a full match, but which have not yet announced one?

S&C
DLA

I know there are more

And will you all PLEASE stop vault-ranking Jones day so high every. Single. Year. My god. Send them below the v50 with the non-matchers where they belong.

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Re: Milbank/Davis Polk/Cravath Scale: NYC to 215-415k

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Mar 14, 2022 11:26 am

objctnyrhnr wrote:
Mon Mar 14, 2022 11:17 am
So what are the v50s (or so), from which we have great evidence-based reason to expect a full match, but which have not yet announced one?

S&C
DLA

I know there are more

And will you all PLEASE stop vault-ranking Jones day so high every. Single. Year. My god. Send them below the v50 with the non-matchers where they belong.
DLA at least matched Milbank in late January. Firms like S&C, Jones Day, and MoFo haven't yet announced anything.

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Re: Milbank/Davis Polk/Cravath Scale: NYC to 215-415k

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Mar 14, 2022 11:42 am

Willkie match. Previously matched DPW.

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Re: Milbank/Davis Polk/Cravath Scale: NYC to 215-415k

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Mar 14, 2022 11:50 am

objctnyrhnr wrote:
Mon Mar 14, 2022 11:17 am
So what are the v50s (or so), from which we have great evidence-based reason to expect a full match, but which have not yet announced one?

S&C
DLA

I know there are more

And will you all PLEASE stop vault-ranking Jones day so high every. Single. Year. My god. Send them below the v50 with the non-matchers where they belong.
K&S has not yet matched.

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Re: Milbank/Davis Polk/Cravath Scale: NYC to 215-415k

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Mar 14, 2022 2:19 pm

K&S match cravath for all partner track associates, all offices. Year 7+ just listed as 400+ with no year 8.

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Re: Milbank/Davis Polk/Cravath Scale: NYC to 215-415k

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Mar 14, 2022 3:01 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Mar 14, 2022 2:19 pm
K&S match cravath for all partner track associates, all offices. Year 7+ just listed as 400+ with no year 8.
Confirmed.

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Re: Milbank/Davis Polk/Cravath Scale: NYC to 215-415k

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Mar 14, 2022 3:11 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Mar 14, 2022 2:19 pm
K&S match cravath for all partner track associates, all offices. Year 7+ just listed as 400+ with no year 8.
wtf is a "partner track" associate? LOL

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Re: Milbank/Davis Polk/Cravath Scale: NYC to 215-415k

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Mar 14, 2022 3:14 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Mar 14, 2022 3:11 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Mar 14, 2022 2:19 pm
K&S match cravath for all partner track associates, all offices. Year 7+ just listed as 400+ with no year 8.
wtf is a "partner track" associate? LOL
Not sure. Think it's just the formal internal designation. We do have staff attorneys but they are called staff attorneys not associates.

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Re: Milbank/Davis Polk/Cravath Scale: NYC to 215-415k

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Mar 14, 2022 4:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Mar 14, 2022 2:19 pm
K&S match cravath for all partner track associates, all offices. Year 7+ just listed as 400+ with no year 8.
Let's keep this rolling, Atlanta firms!

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Re: Milbank/Davis Polk/Cravath Scale: NYC to 215-415k

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Mar 14, 2022 4:33 pm

Milbank Match.

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Re: Milbank/Davis Polk/Cravath Scale: NYC to 215-415k

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Mar 14, 2022 4:42 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Mar 14, 2022 4:33 pm
Milbank Match.

/Thread
Now, now, we still have to see if SullCrom will ever match

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Re: Milbank/Davis Polk/Cravath Scale: NYC to 215-415k

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Mar 14, 2022 8:00 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Mar 14, 2022 4:42 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Mar 14, 2022 4:33 pm
Milbank Match.

/Thread
Now, now, we still have to see if SullCrom will ever match
Dla and s and c and mofo still outstanding? (And JD, but eff Jd)

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Re: Milbank/Davis Polk/Cravath Scale: NYC to 215-415k

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Mar 14, 2022 8:08 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Mar 14, 2022 8:00 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Mar 14, 2022 4:42 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Mar 14, 2022 4:33 pm
Milbank Match.

/Thread
Now, now, we still have to see if SullCrom will ever match
Dla and s and c and mofo still outstanding? (And JD, but eff Jd)
And WSGR. What do people think of spring bonuses now????

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Re: Milbank/Davis Polk/Cravath Scale: NYC to 215-415k

Post by BrowsingTLS » Mon Mar 14, 2022 8:23 pm

objctnyrhnr wrote:
Mon Mar 14, 2022 11:17 am
So what are the v50s (or so), from which we have great evidence-based reason to expect a full match, but which have not yet announced one?

S&C
DLA

I know there are more

And will you all PLEASE stop vault-ranking Jones day so high every. Single. Year. My god. Send them below the v50 with the non-matchers where they belong.
Either vault is rigged or many survey participants are incredibly uninformed. Or both. It is astounding that jones day didn't plummet in the rankings years ago given the blackbox comp and many other issues.

Also, good to know Milbank finally matched. S&C will drag its associates as usual, but that's not enough to keep this thread interesting.

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Re: Milbank/Davis Polk/Cravath Scale: NYC to 215-415k

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Mar 14, 2022 8:28 pm

Gibson matched Cravath.

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Re: Milbank/Davis Polk/Cravath Scale: NYC to 215-415k

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Mar 15, 2022 2:16 pm

DLA matched Cravath. Retroactive to January 1. Paid on April 4. All U.S. offices.

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Re: Milbank/Davis Polk/Cravath Scale: NYC to 215-415k

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Mar 15, 2022 2:47 pm

BrowsingTLS wrote:
Mon Mar 14, 2022 8:23 pm
objctnyrhnr wrote:
Mon Mar 14, 2022 11:17 am
So what are the v50s (or so), from which we have great evidence-based reason to expect a full match, but which have not yet announced one?

S&C
DLA

I know there are more

And will you all PLEASE stop vault-ranking Jones day so high every. Single. Year. My god. Send them below the v50 with the non-matchers where they belong.
Either vault is rigged or many survey participants are incredibly uninformed. Or both. It is astounding that jones day didn't plummet in the rankings years ago given the blackbox comp and many other issues.

Also, good to know Milbank finally matched. S&C will drag its associates as usual, but that's not enough to keep this thread interesting.
I'm legit curious to see if this impacts Milbank's vault ranking. Maybe if it goes to v15, milBANK will raise again to crack v10.

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Re: Milbank/Davis Polk/Cravath Scale: NYC to 215-415k

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Mar 15, 2022 3:11 pm

NRF acted like they wanted to be seen as in lockstep with the market leaders but now they're competing with Baker Botts to be the last major Texas firm to match.

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Re: Milbank/Davis Polk/Cravath Scale: NYC to 215-415k

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Mar 15, 2022 3:28 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Mar 15, 2022 3:11 pm
NRF acted like they wanted to be seen as in lockstep with the market leaders but now they're competing with Baker Botts to be the last major Texas firm to match.
NRF matched via firm wide phone call…no email.

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Re: Milbank/Davis Polk/Cravath Scale: NYC to 215-415k

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Mar 15, 2022 3:36 pm

DLA match.

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Re: Milbank/Davis Polk/Cravath Scale: NYC to 215-415k

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Mar 15, 2022 3:38 pm

Just want to call out some of the early Milbank or CSM adopters who still haven't reupped to DPW and/or CSM: Steptoe, McKool, Wilmer, MLB, Choate, Wilson, Jenner, and A&P. Shame.

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Re: Milbank/Davis Polk/Cravath Scale: NYC to 215-415k

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Mar 15, 2022 3:49 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Mar 15, 2022 3:28 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Mar 15, 2022 3:11 pm
NRF acted like they wanted to be seen as in lockstep with the market leaders but now they're competing with Baker Botts to be the last major Texas firm to match.
NRF matched via firm wide phone call…no email.
Ok thanks, no one mentioned that yet here. So, BB is really in a spot.

Seriously? What are you waiting for?

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