NY GOES TO 180k! IT HAPPENED!!!! (CovingTTTon does a 180! Holder wept.) Forum

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

I don't get why a firm would bill higher in NY? This is 2016, we have the internet. There is nothing physically in NY that would require lawyers to be there.

I suppose firms feel the need to be located in Manhattan proper because of prestige or maybe very close proximity to clients, but it has long made me doubly MAF that they don't move far out in Queens or whatever. Not only would their rent be a third of what it is now (more $$$ to go around) but associates could actually live somewhere affordable without being an hour away from the office.

[PennBull]

Really need a NY firm to announce that its matching for its other major city offices (DC, SF, LA) and secondary markets bumping to next step (ie 130k --> 160k) and a confirmation of proportional SA pay

That would be cool. Great idea

Who gives a fuck about summer associate pay?

This dude changed my quote. I only care about other major cities. Not summers. Summers just cost money

I know, sorry my ire wasn't clear haha

[pancakes3]

it's also a client service and business support industry so no, setting up shop in wyoming isn't some great arbitrage opportunity that only you have just discovered.

It might make sense from that perspective to keep partners, and maybe even senior associates in NY, but what's the point of having junior associates there? They don't interact with clients anyway.

People who think of themselves as professionals generally don't want to be outsourced to call centers, for one.

V10 firms pool their money and build an apple-like campus out in the Adirondacks?

[Big Shrimpin]

I don't get why a firm would bill higher in NY? This is 2016, we have the internet. There is nothing physically in NY that would require lawyers to be there.

I suppose firms feel the need to be located in Manhattan proper because of prestige or maybe very close proximity to clients, but it has long made me doubly MAF that they don't move far out in Queens or whatever. Not only would their rent be a third of what it is now (more $$$ to go around) but associates could actually live somewhere affordable without being an hour away from the office.

yurp

not to mention how miz it is to have to elbow through tourists during the summer

after having worked in 3 diff offices around the city over the last 4 years, i can say with conviction that midtown east is one of the least worst places to work

(hoaping my firm matchez)

[Anonymous User]

Do people think lower-tiered big law firms will follow suit in giving a raise in secondary markets? For instance, if my firm pays 130k to new associates, would it have any incentive to raise to 135 or 140 based on what happens with top tier firms?

[Tiago Splitter]

I don't get why a firm would bill higher in NY? This is 2016, we have the internet. There is nothing physically in NY that would require lawyers to be there.

I suppose firms feel the need to be located in Manhattan proper because of prestige or maybe very close proximity to clients, but it has long made me doubly MAF that they don't move far out in Queens or whatever. Not only would their rent be a third of what it is now (more $$$ to go around) but associates could actually live somewhere affordable without being an hour away from the office.

Yeah it sucks but firms are selling prestige.

[smaug]

I don't get why a firm would bill higher in NY? This is 2016, we have the internet. There is nothing physically in NY that would require lawyers to be there.

I suppose firms feel the need to be located in Manhattan proper because of prestige or maybe very close proximity to clients, but it has long made me doubly MAF that they don't move far out in Queens or whatever. Not only would their rent be a third of what it is now (more $$$ to go around) but associates could actually live somewhere affordable without being an hour away from the office.

Yeah it sucks but firms are selling prestige.

And access. There's a reason that firms are located in Midtown and FiDi and pretty much nowhere else in Manhattan.

[Anonymous User]

Any opinion on lower ranked firms matching? I'm talking Am Law 100-200 that currently pay 160K in major markets. I'm not sure how long it took them to match in 2007.

[abitaman6363]

PW confirmed. ATL

[dixiecupdrinking]

it's also a client service and business support industry so no, setting up shop in wyoming isn't some great arbitrage opportunity that only you have just discovered.

It might make sense from that perspective to keep partners, and maybe even senior associates in NY, but what's the point of having junior associates there? They don't interact with clients anyway.

People who think of themselves as professionals generally don't want to be outsourced to call centers, for one.

V10 firms pool their money and build an apple-like campus out in the Adirondacks?

I would be 100% on board with this

[Desert Fox]

Unless the firm doesn't care which office you work, they absolutely should cover the COL difference.

But that means NYC should get more than 180k, not everyone else less.

But living in Manhattan is a priceless life experience. If anything, that should be factored into the compensation and NYC associates should be getting paid less than associates forced to work in non-NYC offices.

I wouldn't base the COL off MfuckingH. I'd base it off Brooklyn maybe, but probably Jersey.

Idk do you base DC COL off DC proper or Silver Spring/Alexandria/Rockville?

Yea I save over 1k a month by being in Crystal City.

[lymenheimer]

That would be cool. Great idea

Who gives a fuck about summer associate pay?

poor 0Ls

[Desert Fox]

LOT of DC associates with top grades from top schools watching closely.

On the one hand, DC-centric biglaw and its associates practice areas are generally not as heavily leveraged as their NYC counterparts. On the other hand, these DC firms don't have such a wide profit margin to absorb a sudden rise in expense.

Even if Covington/A&P/WH/etc. match quickly in their DC offices (which they will be heavily pressured to do by firms like Sidley etc.), many DC biglaw (defined as $160k starting salary as of this post) may not, at least at first. The elite DC firms don't compete for the same pool of associates as the Crowells/AF/etc, so the latter may prefer to ride this out at least one oci cycle while they figure out how to adapt to this change. The DC elites are generally competing for associates from the top schools nationwide whereas the rest of DC biglaw tends to hire more regionally.

I think Wiley Rein is probably the best test case. If Wiley goes to 180, that will put a lot of pressure on DC biglaw.

For patent associates out there, it will be very interesting to see how long it takes Fish/Finnegan to match.

Going to NYC over DC for 25k a year is pretty stupid. After taxes and COL 180k NYC is probably about equal to 160k DC.

Does Wiley Rein even pay 160k? I thought they were stuck on that 120k a year until you bill your 2000th hour plan. No way are they jumping to 180k.

The reason Cov/A&P/WH will move to 160k is because Latham, Kirkland, Skadden, Clearly, etc. will almost certainly pay their DC associates the 180k scale. So they'll have to match or lose people to other DC firms.

[Desert Fox]

it's also a client service and business support industry so no, setting up shop in wyoming isn't some great arbitrage opportunity that only you have just discovered.

It might make sense from that perspective to keep partners, and maybe even senior associates in NY, but what's the point of having junior associates there? They don't interact with clients anyway.

People who think of themselves as professionals generally don't want to be outsourced to call centers, for one.

DC/Chi/Houston/LA/Etc are call centers?

There's equally no reason to have lawyers in any of those cities. Why not put them in WV, if you're confident it doesn't matter where they're physically located.

TBF, I'd bet in 50 years it'll all be virtual offices anyway. I already work 1 day a week remotely.

[Br3v]

TBF, I'd bet in 50 years it'll all be virtual offices anyway. I already work 1 day a week remotely.

You still work 7 in the office though right?

[dailygrind]

This is the best week ever. The only better week will be the week when my firm announces that it's matching.

[sublime]

..

[Desert Fox]

TBF, I'd bet in 50 years it'll all be virtual offices anyway. I already work 1 day a week remotely.

You still work 7 in the office though right?

DF: On balance, I'm in balance! I can work from home on Sundays! As long as I'm up before 8am! I can put away my work before Game of Thrones . . and then continue after it ends!

[Single-Malt-Liquor]

Getting nervous about firms I turned down matching. Why didnt I go for the presteiiiiigggggeeeee?

[Johann]

it's going to be hilarious when this just causes people to pay off their debts sooner and leave biglaw even sooner and firms have to reraise.

[Anonymous User]

Any opinion on lower ranked firms matching? I'm talking Am Law 100-200 that currently pay 160K in major markets. I'm not sure how long it took them to match in 2007.

This is relevant to my interests. As someone deciding whether to go to one of PW/QE/K&E/GDC or PBWT after my clerkship, I'd be interested in people's thoughts on whether PBWT might also move?

[Anonymous User]

it's also a client service and business support industry so no, setting up shop in wyoming isn't some great arbitrage opportunity that only you have just discovered.

It might make sense from that perspective to keep partners, and maybe even senior associates in NY, but what's the point of having junior associates there? They don't interact with clients anyway.

People who think of themselves as professionals generally don't want to be outsourced to call centers, for one.

DC/Chi/Houston/LA/Etc are call centers?

There's equally no reason to have lawyers in any of those cities. Why not put them in WV, if you're confident it doesn't matter where they're physically located.

TBF, I'd bet in 50 years it'll all be virtual offices anyway. I already work 1 day a week remotely.

Speaking from personal knowledge, there is at least one V10 firm that allows some associates and partners to permanently work remotely. Not a specific example, but think living in Philly while technically working out of the NYC/DC office. If they need to be in the office for meetings every now and then, they're a train ride away.

[smaug]

Any opinion on lower ranked firms matching? I'm talking Am Law 100-200 that currently pay 160K in major markets. I'm not sure how long it took them to match in 2007.

This is relevant to my interests. As someone deciding whether to go to one of PW/QE/K&E/GDC or PBWT after my clerkship, I'd be interested in people's thoughts on whether PBWT might also move?

Totally confident that they would match and have heard nothing but positive things about them.

[jbagelboy]

This is the best week ever. The only better week will be the week when my firm announces that it's matching.

I can't focus on bar prep--or really anything at all--until my firm announces.

[Anonymous User]

Any opinion on lower ranked firms matching? I'm talking Am Law 100-200 that currently pay 160K in major markets. I'm not sure how long it took them to match in 2007.

This is relevant to my interests. As someone deciding whether to go to one of PW/QE/K&E/GDC or PBWT after my clerkship, I'd be interested in people's thoughts on whether PBWT might also move?

Outside of the matching issue, why would you go to PBWT over the others?