Milbank/Davis Polk/Cravath Scale: NYC to 215-415k Forum

[Anonymous User]

DPW would never do this because there's really no incentive... but how much higher would they have to raise salaries for the lock-step system to start falling apart, do you think?

250 base would easily do the trick. Some law firms with PPPs of like 1m have matched the 205 scale (although not for more senior associates and often not paying out special bonuses). Moving to 250 would mean non-equity partners at some of these firms would be making roughly the same as first/second years which would inspire too many defections. I think if DPW moved to 250 base for first years a lot of firms with PPP below 2m wouldn't match. As discussed in another thread, law firm with PPPs of 3m + could very easily afford to pay first years 300k (with corresponding bumps for other class years) but they enjoy the status quo of underpaying associates.

[Anonymous User]

DPW would never do this because there's really no incentive... but how much higher would they have to raise salaries for the lock-step system to start falling apart, do you think?

250 base would easily do the trick. Some law firms with PPPs of like 1m have matched the 205 scale (although not for more senior associates and often not paying out special bonuses). Moving to 250 would mean non-equity partners at some of these firms would be making roughly the same as first/second years which would inspire too many defections. I think if DPW moved to 250 base for first years a lot of firms with PPP below 2m wouldn't match. As discussed in another thread, law firm with PPPs of 3m + could very easily afford to pay first years 300k (with corresponding bumps for other class years) but they enjoy the status quo of underpaying associates.

Do it DPW. Break the wheel.

[Anonymous User]

DPW would never do this because there's really no incentive... but how much higher would they have to raise salaries for the lock-step system to start falling apart, do you think?

250 base would easily do the trick. Some law firms with PPPs of like 1m have matched the 205 scale (although not for more senior associates and often not paying out special bonuses). Moving to 250 would mean non-equity partners at some of these firms would be making roughly the same as first/second years which would inspire too many defections. I think if DPW moved to 250 base for first years a lot of firms with PPP below 2m wouldn't match. As discussed in another thread, law firm with PPPs of 3m + could very easily afford to pay first years 300k (with corresponding bumps for other class years) but they enjoy the status quo of underpaying associates.

Do it DPW. Break the wheel.

It’s an interesting thought experiment. Ostensibly this has been the dream of every firm that ever initiated a salary scale increase i.e., finally create some more differentiation within the V100/V50. The long period of scale stagnation until the last few years made that look pretty unlikely but with the way the scale’s moved lately? Maybe we’re getting closer.

[Anonymous User]

DPW would never do this because there's really no incentive... but how much higher would they have to raise salaries for the lock-step system to start falling apart, do you think?

250 base would easily do the trick. Some law firms with PPPs of like 1m have matched the 205 scale (although not for more senior associates and often not paying out special bonuses). Moving to 250 would mean non-equity partners at some of these firms would be making roughly the same as first/second years which would inspire too many defections. I think if DPW moved to 250 base for first years a lot of firms with PPP below 2m wouldn't match. As discussed in another thread, law firm with PPPs of 3m + could very easily afford to pay first years 300k (with corresponding bumps for other class years) but they enjoy the status quo of underpaying associates.

Do it DPW. Break the wheel.

It’s an interesting thought experiment. Ostensibly this has been the dream of every firm that ever initiated a salary scale increase i.e., finally create some more differentiation within the V100/V50. The long period of scale stagnation until the last few years made that look pretty unlikely but with the way the scale’s moved lately? Maybe we’re getting closer.

I think the problem is that DPW doesn't gain much by differentiating themselves from the low end of the lock-step salary scale. To see real benefits, they'd need to get some distance from firms that they compete with for talent, which would be *much* more expensive.

[Anonymous User]

250 is still only about 180 in 2006 dollars. https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/

[Anonymous User]

DPW would never do this because there's really no incentive... but how much higher would they have to raise salaries for the lock-step system to start falling apart, do you think?

250 base would easily do the trick. Some law firms with PPPs of like 1m have matched the 205 scale (although not for more senior associates and often not paying out special bonuses). Moving to 250 would mean non-equity partners at some of these firms would be making roughly the same as first/second years which would inspire too many defections. I think if DPW moved to 250 base for first years a lot of firms with PPP below 2m wouldn't match. As discussed in another thread, law firm with PPPs of 3m + could very easily afford to pay first years 300k (with corresponding bumps for other class years) but they enjoy the status quo of underpaying associates.

Do it DPW. Break the wheel.

It’s an interesting thought experiment. Ostensibly this has been the dream of every firm that ever initiated a salary scale increase i.e., finally create some more differentiation within the V100/V50. The long period of scale stagnation until the last few years made that look pretty unlikely but with the way the scale’s moved lately? Maybe we’re getting closer.

I think the problem is that DPW doesn't gain much by differentiating themselves from the low end of the lock-step salary scale. To see real benefits, they'd need to get some distance from firms that they compete with for talent, which would be *much* more expensive.

I think the fantasy outcome for a V10 would be forcing one or more of the V25s to "blink." You're right, setting aside some particular practice area exceptions, is a firm like Cravath or DPW typically competing with a firm in the bottom half of the V100? No. But are they competing against Ropes or Jones Day or Wilmer? Sure. To your point, maybe the amount of money it would take to force that moment vs. the business gain from pushing a rival or two in the V25 into a lower tier would never make economic sense. I do think, all else being equal, as we see this supercharging in profitability that's happening especially in the V10, you're at least increasing the odds of something like that happening some day--DPW hitting $10m PPP and saying the equivalent of "fuck it" and putting out a scale that actually differentiates them and a few super elite peers vs. your Ropes & Grays of the world.

[Anonymous User]

Maybe DPW, Cravath, et al have realized that they can in fact pay in preftige. Like, how many V10ers on this board are actually going to lateral from, say, S&C down to, say, NRF? Maybe what the market will dictate is actually that the preftigious firms pay slightly less -- a like, preftige anti-premium.

DPW to 200.

[Anonymous User]

Maybe DPW, Cravath, et al have realized that they can in fact pay in preftige. Like, how many V10ers on this board are actually going to lateral from, say, S&C down to, say, NRF? Maybe what the market will dictate is actually that the preftigious firms pay slightly less -- a like, preftige anti-premium.

DPW to 200.

So...federal judges and prosecutors?

[Anonymous User]

Maybe DPW, Cravath, et al have realized that they can in fact pay in preftige. Like, how many V10ers on this board are actually going to lateral from, say, S&C down to, say, NRF? Maybe what the market will dictate is actually that the preftigious firms pay slightly less -- a like, preftige anti-premium.

DPW to 200.

So...federal judges and prosecutors?

Precisely. Like I might be completely out of the loop (I am ignorant of the IB side of things), but some MBAs once told me in law school that Goldman analysts actually made less than some of their peers because everyone out of college wanted that GS stamp on their resume more than they wanted a JPM stamp. Is that true? I'm sure a bunch of people reading this know.

[ExpOriental]

Maybe DPW, Cravath, et al have realized that they can in fact pay in preftige. Like, how many V10ers on this board are actually going to lateral from, say, S&C down to, say, NRF? Maybe what the market will dictate is actually that the preftigious firms pay slightly less -- a like, preftige anti-premium.

DPW to 200.

So...federal judges and prosecutors?

Precisely. Like I might be completely out of the loop (I am ignorant of the IB side of things), but some MBAs once told me in law school that Goldman analysts actually made less than some of their peers because everyone out of college wanted that GS stamp on their resume more than they wanted a JPM stamp. Is that true? I'm sure a bunch of people reading this know.

We already have an example of this in Williams & Connolly (and maybe a handful of other selective boutiques and regional firms like Patterson Belknap, etc).

I don't really have a coherent thesis for why these differences crop up, though the most obvious explanation is partnership odds. I don't think the exits from Williams & Connolly (taken as a loose approximation of bankable "prestige") are appreciably better than those from the DC offices of Cov/Wilmer/GDC, but partnership prospects are.

[Anonymous User]

Maybe DPW, Cravath, et al have realized that they can in fact pay in preftige. Like, how many V10ers on this board are actually going to lateral from, say, S&C down to, say, NRF? Maybe what the market will dictate is actually that the preftigious firms pay slightly less -- a like, preftige anti-premium.

DPW to 200.

So...federal judges and prosecutors?

Precisely. Like I might be completely out of the loop (I am ignorant of the IB side of things), but some MBAs once told me in law school that Goldman analysts actually made less than some of their peers because everyone out of college wanted that GS stamp on their resume more than they wanted a JPM stamp. Is that true? I'm sure a bunch of people reading this know.

We already have an example of this in Williams & Connolly (and maybe a handful of other selective boutiques and regional firms like Patterson Belknap, etc).

I don't really have a coherent thesis for why these differences crop up, though the most obvious explanation is partnership odds. I don't think the exits from Williams & Connolly (taken as a loose approximation of bankable "prestige") are appreciably better than those from the DC offices of Cov/Wilmer/GDC, but partnership prospects are.

PBWT pays market... At least it did until this most recent bump by v3 Milbank, and hopefully it will again soon...

[Anonymous User]

So what's the strategy here?

1. Wait 8+ days to match? Unlikely.
2. Wait 8+ days to marginally increase the scale? Again, seems Unlikely.

[Anonymous User]

So what's the strategy here?

1. Wait 8+ days to match? Unlikely.
2. Wait 8+ days to marginally increase the scale? Again, seems Unlikely.

I think it's probably DPW partners disagreeing on whether to match vs. raise Milbank. They (like all other partners everywhere except Milbank) probably didn't think the raise was warranted, so there's a contingent of DPW partners wanting to just match, and then there's the other contingent that are set on the "any Biglaw comp. scale for the foreseeable future will be called the "DPW Scale" strategy".

Pure speculation, of course, but it seems plausible.

[blair.waldorf]

Maybe DPW, Cravath, et al have realized that they can in fact pay in preftige. Like, how many V10ers on this board are actually going to lateral from, say, S&C down to, say, NRF? Maybe what the market will dictate is actually that the preftigious firms pay slightly less -- a like, preftige anti-premium.

DPW to 200.

This is BANANAS to me. I cannot imagine working worse hours for less pay (assuming a random V50 does not work associates as hard as V10 firms, which I think is generally the case) just to be at a more "prestigious" law firm.

[August Wilson]

Maybe DPW, Cravath, et al have realized that they can in fact pay in preftige. Like, how many V10ers on this board are actually going to lateral from, say, S&C down to, say, NRF? Maybe what the market will dictate is actually that the preftigious firms pay slightly less -- a like, preftige anti-premium.

DPW to 200.

This is BANANAS to me. I cannot imagine working worse hours for less pay (assuming a random V50 does not work associates as hard as V10 firms, which I think is generally the case) just to be at a more "prestigious" law firm.

Cravath associates do it every day.

[Anonymous User]

Don’t think any more matching coming. It’s too soon since the last match.

Stratification of different salary scales is solidifying: those who can afford to pay market and those who pay below market.

Expecting Milbank to be flooded with lateral applicants.

[Anonymous User]

Don’t think any more matching coming. It’s too soon since the last match.

Stratification of different salary scales is solidifying: those who can afford to pay market and those who pay below market.

Expecting Milbank to be flooded with lateral applicants.

You're crazy if you think no one else is matching... firms are literally just waiting on DPW right now. Once they move, the dozens of firms that have been pre-authorized to match DPW will match them.

[Anonymous User]

Don’t think any more matching coming. It’s too soon since the last match.

Stratification of different salary scales is solidifying: those who can afford to pay market and those who pay below market.

Expecting Milbank to be flooded with lateral applicants.

You're crazy if you think no one else is matching... firms are literally just waiting on DPW right now. Once they move, the dozens of firms that have been pre-authorized to match DPW will match them.

Pretty sure that's a shitpost lol

[Anonymous User]

Okay DPW what the fuck.

[Anonymous User]

As an associate at a V20 firm, I am struggling to work today. Why am I working in M&A for below market compensation? I worry that my girlfriend will leave me for a higher-earning Chad at Milbank, Fried Frank, or Winston.

[Anonymous User]

As an associate at a V20 firm, I am struggling to work today. Why am I working in M&A for below market compensation? I worry that my girlfriend will leave me for a higher-earning Chad at Milbank, Fried Frank, or Winston.

and tbh who could blame her

[Anonymous User]

Maybe DPW is waiting our Cravath the way they did for year end bonuses.

[Anonymous User]

DPW: the waiting will continue until morale improves

[Anonymous User]

As an associate at a V20 firm, I am struggling to work today. Why am I working in M&A for below market compensation? I worry that my girlfriend will leave me for a higher-earning Chad at Milbank, Fried Frank, or Winston.

and tbh who could blame her

It just happened. I took a nap and dreamed of making market. When I woke up, she was gone. The only trace she left was a note on my pillow — in her note, she explained how she can’t look at me the same way anymore. She was OK not being with a front-office finance bro, but she can’t be with someone who makes less than a clown who lateraled from shitlaw to Cadwalader in spring 2021.

Thanks, DPW. You’ve literally ruined my life.

[anonbanker]

6th year on current scale lockstep makes $535,000 with special bonuses. Most good firms will add $30,000 on top at least for above market hours of 2300-2400. Generally only top bucket will get VP promotion (25%) and even there you are likely to get between 500 and 600 for the next 2 years.

Honestly anyone with a pulse gets promoted to VP

Usually I make significantly more than my biglaw peers in the same class year

This year I made a bonkers amount more