2021 End of Year Bonuses Forum

[Anonymous User]

I think everyone here is too focused on retention. Of course retention is extremely important and may be half (or more) of the reason for EOY bonuses or any special bonuses, but let's not forget that even for associates who aren't actively looking to leave, larger EOY bonuses serve as a morale boost that makes them feel appreciated and part of the "team" as partner comp skyrockets year after year, and likely increases work quality/attitudes. I have no plans to leave my V10 as a senior corp associate but I sure as hell will work a little harder and a little better throughout the year if EOY bonuses are huge given the resentment and burnout I'm feeling now.

Just my 2 cents.

That is quite literally what retention is... retention is more effective IMO when it is proactive, not reactive.

I'm not sure exactly what you mean (or that I agree), but I don't think a higher EOY bonus scale in 2021 is in any way a proactive retention move. Firms are already struggling to staff up effectively and everyone knows that there is a real chance the associate floodgates will be opening in a big way once the checks clear. A "proactive" move would have been for firms to hand out cash as soon as they realized that they wouldn't be able to staff their groups enough for associates to work a reasonable amount during a pandemic. But none of them did so universally, and only a very small number of them did so at all for only the true 3,000-hour life-ruined group.

It's a business and an incredibly sophisticated one at that; the partnership will always, always, always, always make the decision that is in its interest. They are not looking out for us - if they give us more money, it's because they think they need to in order to keep us around. Nothing more.

[Anonymous User]

BloombergLaw’s insta account (cross posted by nonequitypartner) just predicted same annual bonuses as last year. Story is full of boomer nonsense about how compensation isn’t enough to hang on to attorneys.

I am fucking done with this.

[Anonymous User]

I blame you all for fighting over the definition of retention.

[Anonymous User]

BloombergLaw’s insta account (cross posted by nonequitypartner) just predicted same annual bonuses as last year. Story is full of boomer nonsense about how compensation isn’t enough to hang on to attorneys.

I am fucking done with this.

This Bloomberg piece? https://news.bloomberglaw.com/business- ... ch-100-000

It seems like they pulled this prediction out of their ass

[legalpotato]

I think everyone here is too focused on retention. Of course retention is extremely important and may be half (or more) of the reason for EOY bonuses or any special bonuses, but let's not forget that even for associates who aren't actively looking to leave, larger EOY bonuses serve as a morale boost that makes them feel appreciated and part of the "team" as partner comp skyrockets year after year, and likely increases work quality/attitudes. I have no plans to leave my V10 as a senior corp associate but I sure as hell will work a little harder and a little better throughout the year if EOY bonuses are huge given the resentment and burnout I'm feeling now.

Just my 2 cents.

That is quite literally what retention is... retention is more effective IMO when it is proactive, not reactive.

I'm not sure exactly what you mean (or that I agree), but I don't think a higher EOY bonus scale in 2021 is in any way a proactive retention move. Firms are already struggling to staff up effectively and everyone knows that there is a real chance the associate floodgates will be opening in a big way once the checks clear. A "proactive" move would have been for firms to hand out cash as soon as they realized that they wouldn't be able to staff their groups enough for associates to work a reasonable amount during a pandemic. But none of them did so universally, and only a very small number of them did so at all for only the true 3,000-hour life-ruined group.

It's a business and an incredibly sophisticated one at that; the partnership will always, always, always, always make the decision that is in its interest. They are not looking out for us - if they give us more money, it's because they think they need to in order to keep us around. Nothing more.

Its true, but if they don't offer a true year end bonus, floodgates of associates quitting will be opening up immediately, and no associates for the hellish end of year push this year.

[Joachim2017]

I don't know if it's going to be floodgates of associates. These people are young and in their prime; they're not old people who were thinking about retiring soon anyway (a real problem in the U.S. economy as a whole right now). There's only so many other type-A jobs these type-A junior associates can get. There will be some lateral movement and some attrition, sure, but I think the sentiment on TLS about its degree and scope is exaggerated (partly due to self-selection effects on online poster boards like this).

[Anonymous User]

I blame you all for fighting over the definition of retention.

We just can't stay on topic in this thread.

[Anonymous User]

I don't know if it's going to be floodgates of associates. These people are young and in their prime; they're not old people who were thinking about retiring soon anyway (a real problem in the U.S. economy as a whole right now). There's only so many other type-A jobs these type-A junior associates can get. There will be some lateral movement and some attrition, sure, but I think the sentiment on TLS about its degree and scope is exaggerated (partly due to self-selection effects on online poster boards like this).

You might be right (I think there will be more losses than usual, but not necessarily a deluge) but the difference now is that firms are in a worse position to absorb losses than a typical year. Every year, some midlevels and seniors lateral around biglaw and some exit biglaw entirely. There are firms that need to either (1) capture a bigger chunk of the laterals than usual, which will take $$$, or (2) retain a bigger chunk of the exiters than usual, which will also take $$$. Otherwise they will just continue to burst at the seams given the current market. So it’s going to cost them money and I expect we will see that in the form of at least one of larger EOY bonus scale or special bonus announcement, and maybe both.

[Anonymous User]

I don't know if it's going to be floodgates of associates. These people are young and in their prime; they're not old people who were thinking about retiring soon anyway (a real problem in the U.S. economy as a whole right now). There's only so many other type-A jobs these type-A junior associates can get. There will be some lateral movement and some attrition, sure, but I think the sentiment on TLS about its degree and scope is exaggerated (partly due to self-selection effects on online poster boards like this).

I don't think so -- there's a reason firms are guaranteeing full end of year ($~80k) + second covid bonuses (~$30k) + offering $100k signing bonuses to mid-levels starting in October/November. You don't just throw $210k around to bring someone in 3 months earlier just because.

[Anonymous User]

Guys I'm at a V10 and I can testify based on seeing hard stats that our attrition numbers are very bad. This isn't a hypothetical debate it's definitely happening.

[Lesion of Doom]

Yeah, I would say the floodgates already have opened. The question is whether and to what extent it gets worse early next year. As mentioned previously, I think the 2020s -- who to this point may have felt it was too early to leave -- will be packing bags in large numbers early in their 2nd year.

[TigerIsBack]

I think everyone here is too focused on retention. Of course retention is extremely important and may be half (or more) of the reason for EOY bonuses or any special bonuses, but let's not forget that even for associates who aren't actively looking to leave, larger EOY bonuses serve as a morale boost that makes them feel appreciated and part of the "team" as partner comp skyrockets year after year, and likely increases work quality/attitudes. I have no plans to leave my V10 as a senior corp associate but I sure as hell will work a little harder and a little better throughout the year if EOY bonuses are huge given the resentment and burnout I'm feeling now.

Just my 2 cents.

That is quite literally what retention is... retention is more effective IMO when it is proactive, not reactive.

It's quite literally not what retention means. Retention is about retaining people (i.e., not having them leave the firm), whereas the previous post is about making those who will stay regardless work harder/be happier.

I, for one, am sticking around for my paychecks until the partners tell me to leave (or promote me), but raising comp/bonuses still has an impact on me by encouraging me to work harder/more. That's not retention, bruh.

Edit: grammar.

Smells like and sounds like retention...so must be ??

You may not be leaving, but if the effect is to make you more motivated/harder working, if it has the same effect on other people (motivation), that probably retains a few people that were on the fray.

[Anonymous User]

At a V5 that is quite literally hemorrhaging associates. Corporate and lit. Everyone is just completely underwater and there is no sign that the work will slow down anytime soon. I think if bonuses don’t increase or a special bonus isn’t announced, even more will flee.

[Anonymous User]

Guys I'm at a V10 and I can testify based on seeing hard stats that our attrition numbers are very bad. This isn't a hypothetical debate it's definitely happening.

And I think the efforts to plug the leaks by hiring more randos from lower v100s aren't helping at all. I think all of us who have stuck around see deals going like this right now:

- get brought in one week before signing because the team comprised of laterals and a stub year has no idea what the fuck they are doing
- spend that week sprinting, getting up to speed, redoing all the work that should have been done during the prior 2 weeks
- deal signs
- repeat cycle

It is full on triage right now. The laterals have the best jobs in the world right now. Pretty soon there will be no homegrown associates left.

[Anonymous User]

Guys I'm at a V10 and I can testify based on seeing hard stats that our attrition numbers are very bad. This isn't a hypothetical debate it's definitely happening.

And I think the efforts to plug the leaks by hiring more randos from lower v100s aren't helping at all. I think all of us who have stuck around see deals going like this right now:

- get brought in one week before signing because the team comprised of laterals and a stub year has no idea what the fuck they are doing
- spend that week sprinting, getting up to speed, redoing all the work that should have been done during the prior 2 weeks
- deal signs
- repeat cycle

It is full on triage right now. The laterals have the best jobs in the world right now. Pretty soon there will be no homegrown associates left.

Look at it this way: when the market inevitably screeches to a halt sometime in the next 2 years, some of these crappy laterals will be among the first on the chopping block.

[Anonymous User]

I don't know if it's going to be floodgates of associates. These people are young and in their prime; they're not old people who were thinking about retiring soon anyway (a real problem in the U.S. economy as a whole right now). There's only so many other type-A jobs these type-A junior associates can get. There will be some lateral movement and some attrition, sure, but I think the sentiment on TLS about its degree and scope is exaggerated (partly due to self-selection effects on online poster boards like this).

v10 funds associate here. We've had teams lose over half of their associates and barely see any replacement staffing (if any at all). Attrition is extremely dire and in the view of anyone I've talked to unprecedented. In-house hiring in some groups is hot right now (funds) and there is no clear end to the slew of departures as many of the people I know are interviewing. A majority of associates I've worked with have quit (sans super juniors) and a majority left are interviewing or talking about leaving at end year; something has to change or its unclear how work even gets done. Also, fwiw, some people are just retiring young or exiting the industry and a lot more than i've seen in the past personally.

[Anonymous User]

Given the crazy profits, retention motive, and 7+ years of stagnant EOY bonuses, I think we're going to see a big jump in the scale. Something like:

25k (from 15k)
45k (from 25k)
80k (from 50k)
100k (from 65k)
115k (from 80k)
130k (from 90k)
130k (from 100k)

[screwtapeletters]

Given the crazy profits, retention motive, and 7+ years of stagnant EOY bonuses, I think we're going to see a big jump in the scale. Something like:

25k (from 15k)
45k (from 25k)
80k (from 50k)
100k (from 65k)
115k (from 80k)
130k (from 90k)
130k (from 100k)

Inflation is nuts too.

[The Lsat Airbender]

I think everyone here is too focused on retention. Of course retention is extremely important and may be half (or more) of the reason for EOY bonuses or any special bonuses, but let's not forget that even for associates who aren't actively looking to leave, larger EOY bonuses serve as a morale boost that makes them feel appreciated and part of the "team" as partner comp skyrockets year after year, and likely increases work quality/attitudes. I have no plans to leave my V10 as a senior corp associate but I sure as hell will work a little harder and a little better throughout the year if EOY bonuses are huge given the resentment and burnout I'm feeling now.

Just my 2 cents.

That is quite literally what retention is... retention is more effective IMO when it is proactive, not reactive.

It's quite literally not what retention means. Retention is about retaining people (i.e., not having them leave the firm), whereas the previous post is about making those who will stay regardless work harder/be happier.

I, for one, am sticking around for my paychecks until the partners tell me to leave (or promote me), but raising comp/bonuses still has an impact on me by encouraging me to work harder/more. That's not retention, bruh.

Edit: grammar.

All economic decisions matter on the margins. If you're not a marginal case, you won't experience the effect in the same way, but the effect still happens somewhere along the supply curve. Paying your associates more, ceteris paribus, will help with retention. Paying only the marginal associates for whom the extra pay is dispositive would be neat (economists call this "price discrimination") but is very tricky for practical as well as political reasons. So you pay all of them more.

[Anonymous User]

Given the crazy profits, retention motive, and 7+ years of stagnant EOY bonuses, I think we're going to see a big jump in the scale. Something like:

25k (from 15k)
45k (from 25k)
80k (from 50k)
100k (from 65k)
115k (from 80k)
130k (from 90k)
130k (from 100k)

Would this be on top of a baked in "special bonus?" Because otherwise some of those figures are less than what people were getting EoY 2020 and there's no way that's going to fly with people quitting in droves. E.g., Cravath c/o 2013 last year was getting 140k EoY (100k base + 40k special). Going to be hard to look some burnt out senior associate in the eye this year and say "thanks for the record profits and sorry about your mental health, but here's a little less than what you got last Christmas." Sauce: https://abovethelaw.com/2020/11/cravath-bonuses/

[Wanderingdrock]

Given the crazy profits, retention motive, and 7+ years of stagnant EOY bonuses, I think we're going to see a big jump in the scale. Something like:

25k (from 15k)
45k (from 25k)
80k (from 50k)
100k (from 65k)
115k (from 80k)
130k (from 90k)
130k (from 100k)

Would this be on top of a baked in "special bonus?" Because otherwise some of those figures are less than what people were getting EoY 2020 and there's no way that's going to fly with people quitting in droves. E.g., Cravath c/o 2013 last year was getting 140k EoY (100k base + 40k special). Going to be hard to look some burnt out senior associate in the eye this year and say "thanks for the record profits and sorry about your mental health, but here's a little less than what you got last Christmas." Sauce: https://abovethelaw.com/2020/11/cravath-bonuses/

Not the anon poster you're quoting, but yes, I would assume the poster meant these numbers to be separate from special bonuses, because they referred to EOY. You seem to be confused about some terms - "base," from "base compensation," refers to salary. EOY = "end of year," referring to the bonus Biglaw associates traditionally collect at the end of the year. And "special" refers to those other, mid-year bonuses. You seem to be using "EOY" to mean some agglomeration of all the bonuses received throughout the year, and that isn't what it means.

[BrowsingTLS]

Given the crazy profits, retention motive, and 7+ years of stagnant EOY bonuses, I think we're going to see a big jump in the scale. Something like:

25k (from 15k)
45k (from 25k)
80k (from 50k)
100k (from 65k)
115k (from 80k)
130k (from 90k)
130k (from 100k)

Would this be on top of a baked in "special bonus?" Because otherwise some of those figures are less than what people were getting EoY 2020 and there's no way that's going to fly with people quitting in droves. E.g., Cravath c/o 2013 last year was getting 140k EoY (100k base + 40k special). Going to be hard to look some burnt out senior associate in the eye this year and say "thanks for the record profits and sorry about your mental health, but here's a little less than what you got last Christmas." Sauce: https://abovethelaw.com/2020/11/cravath-bonuses/

Not the anon poster you're quoting, but yes, I would assume the poster meant these numbers to be separate from special bonuses, because they referred to EOY. You seem to be confused about some terms - "base," from "base compensation," refers to salary. EOY = "end of year," referring to the bonus Biglaw associates traditionally collect at the end of the year. And "special" refers to those other, mid-year bonuses. You seem to be using "EOY" to mean some agglomeration of all the bonuses received throughout the year, and that isn't what it means.

Presumptuous to assume someone else is confused about basic terminology, when they have not stated as much. Unless you count Q4 as mid-year, special bonuses do not refer exclusively to mid-year bonuses. Firms have announced special bonuses during Q4.

You seem to be confused about some terms I just used. "Q4" means the last quarter of the year. The "year" means January 1 through December 31, not a subjective fiscal year that uses other dates. So "Q4" means the last three months of a given year: October, November, and December. The Q stands for quarter, but does not mean a United States coin worth twenty-five cents.

[Wanderingdrock]

Given the crazy profits, retention motive, and 7+ years of stagnant EOY bonuses, I think we're going to see a big jump in the scale. Something like:

25k (from 15k)
45k (from 25k)
80k (from 50k)
100k (from 65k)
115k (from 80k)
130k (from 90k)
130k (from 100k)

Would this be on top of a baked in "special bonus?" Because otherwise some of those figures are less than what people were getting EoY 2020 and there's no way that's going to fly with people quitting in droves. E.g., Cravath c/o 2013 last year was getting 140k EoY (100k base + 40k special). Going to be hard to look some burnt out senior associate in the eye this year and say "thanks for the record profits and sorry about your mental health, but here's a little less than what you got last Christmas." Sauce: https://abovethelaw.com/2020/11/cravath-bonuses/

Not the anon poster you're quoting, but yes, I would assume the poster meant these numbers to be separate from special bonuses, because they referred to EOY. You seem to be confused about some terms - "base," from "base compensation," refers to salary. EOY = "end of year," referring to the bonus Biglaw associates traditionally collect at the end of the year. And "special" refers to those other, mid-year bonuses. You seem to be using "EOY" to mean some agglomeration of all the bonuses received throughout the year, and that isn't what it means.

Presumptuous to assume someone else is confused about basic terminology, when they have not stated as much. Unless you count Q4 as mid-year, special bonuses do not refer exclusively to mid-year bonuses. Firms have announced special bonuses during Q4.

You seem to be confused about some terms I just used. "Q4" means the last quarter of the year. The "year" means January 1 through December 31, not a subjective fiscal year that uses other dates. So "Q4" means the last three months of a given year: October, November, and December. The Q stands for quarter, but does not mean a United States coin worth twenty-five cents.

It wasn't an assumption. They used the terms incorrectly. And yes, Q4 bonuses that are not EOY are mid-year, being before the end of the year. But you go off, my friend.

Moar rampant EOY and/or special bonus (but, given the title of the thread, mostly EOY) speculation, please?

[Anonymous User]

Given the crazy profits, retention motive, and 7+ years of stagnant EOY bonuses, I think we're going to see a big jump in the scale. Something like:

25k (from 15k)
45k (from 25k)
80k (from 50k)
100k (from 65k)
115k (from 80k)
130k (from 90k)
130k (from 100k)

This feels like around the minimum amounts where a lot of associates would actually be happy to receive them and there might actually be a morale boost particularly at the 3rd-5th level.

[Anonymous User]

Given the crazy profits, retention motive, and 7+ years of stagnant EOY bonuses, I think we're going to see a big jump in the scale. Something like:

25k (from 15k)
45k (from 25k)
80k (from 50k)
100k (from 65k)
115k (from 80k)
130k (from 90k)
130k (from 100k)

This feels like around the minimum amounts where a lot of associates would actually be happy to receive them and there might actually be a morale boost particularly at the 3rd-5th level.

As a 4th year that’s seen multiple associates depart for six figure signing bonuses, while I know that i can never pull equal with them without also leaving, I have to say that I’ll be pretty sad to receive less than six figures at EOY. Inflation is nuts, partners a rich, everyone is quitting, double the scale.