Prediction: When will NYC lawyers return to the office? Forum

[Anonymous User]

If firms permanently downsize offices over the next couple of years, reduce travel expenses and so on, does a Cravath/Milbank scale bump become more likely, to share some of the cost savings with associates?

$180k was in 2016; $190k was 2018. Not outrageous to think that it could bump to $200k in the next year or two. Especially if firms continue to do well with keeping costs down and after a surprisingly strong 2020.

On the other hand, there could be a psychological hurdle to get over in order to break through to $200k, especially with the last raise being fairly recent. It would be equally unsurprising to see it stay at $190k for the next 5-7 years, more in line with the 9-years it took to go from $160k to $180k.

It is more likely that we will see the same sort of three-tranche compensation that we saw in 2020: salary (stagnant), usual bonus (stagnant), special bonus (likely not as large as 2020 but still existing). For the same reason that firms hesitate to raise salary: because they don't want to have to cut it later. Adding a new special bucket of money makes it easier to take it away without acting like compensation has been reduced: the salary and usual bonuses are still the same!

[Anonymous User]

Any updates on mandatory return dates?

[Anonymous User]

Ropes announced a post-Labor day mandatory return date (with the caveat that it change as the coronavirus situation changes).

[jotarokujo]

Ropes announced a post-Labor day mandatory return date (with the caveat that it change as the coronavirus situation changes).

how relaxed is the # of days you have to go in, if at all

[Anonymous User]

Ropes lost-Labor Day makes sense. Bet that will be the norm unless something pushes it back. What’s the word on ability to WFH after that (eg, 2-3 days a week)?

[BankruptcyJesus]

Ropes lost-Labor Day makes sense. Bet that will be the norm unless something pushes it back. What’s the word on ability to WFH after that (eg, 2-3 days a week)?

You think there will be herd immunity to the point that everyone can ride public transportation without face masks by Labor Day!? I don’t. And I don’t think law firms will force anyone into the office until we can all ride the trains without any PPE. I’d be surprised if we were required back into the office this year at all.

[nealric]

Ropes lost-Labor Day makes sense. Bet that will be the norm unless something pushes it back. What’s the word on ability to WFH after that (eg, 2-3 days a week)?

You think there will be herd immunity to the point that everyone can ride public transportation without face masks by Labor Day!? I don’t. And I don’t think law firms will force anyone into the office until we can all ride the trains without any PPE. I’d be surprised if we were required back into the office this year at all.

I don't think face masks would be the tipping point. If people can ride public transit (masked or not), they will likely be comfortable in the office. Labor day seems to be a timeline by which most people who want a vaccine will be able to have gotten one.

Anyhow, my non-NYC F500 company is starting a phased return to office next week. It will be 2 day a week in the office next week, and permanent 3 days a week thereafter.

[Anonymous User]

Ropes announced a post-Labor day mandatory return date (with the caveat that it change as the coronavirus situation changes).

What does mandatory mean? Do seniors have the ability to negotiate something more flexible?

[Anonymous User]

Ropes announced a post-Labor day mandatory return date (with the caveat that it change as the coronavirus situation changes).

What does mandatory mean? Do seniors have the ability to negotiate something more flexible?

Does anyone at any level? I cannot go back to 5 days a week in the office. I'm a junior.

[BankruptcyJesus]

Ropes lost-Labor Day makes sense. Bet that will be the norm unless something pushes it back. What’s the word on ability to WFH after that (eg, 2-3 days a week)?

You think there will be herd immunity to the point that everyone can ride public transportation without face masks by Labor Day!? I don’t. And I don’t think law firms will force anyone into the office until we can all ride the trains without any PPE. I’d be surprised if we were required back into the office this year at all.

I don't think face masks would be the tipping point. If people can ride public transit (masked or not), they will likely be comfortable in the office. Labor day seems to be a timeline by which most people who want a vaccine will be able to have gotten one.

Anyhow, my non-NYC F500 company is starting a phased return to office next week. It will be 2 day a week in the office next week, and permanent 3 days a week thereafter.

If there’s a worry that people can still get it, hence my point about having to wear a mask, firms will not force people back. The most that will happen is a voluntary return phased in over several weeks. I would bet my ass we are not going to have a mandatory return around Labor Day.

[Chrstgtr]

Ropes announced a post-Labor day mandatory return date (with the caveat that it change as the coronavirus situation changes).

What does mandatory mean? Do seniors have the ability to negotiate something more flexible?

Does anyone at any level? I cannot go back to 5 days a week in the office. I'm a junior.

Has Ropes done the thing where they give a return date and continually pushed the date back? Or is this the first time they have actually provided a return date?

[nealric]

Ropes lost-Labor Day makes sense. Bet that will be the norm unless something pushes it back. What’s the word on ability to WFH after that (eg, 2-3 days a week)?

You think there will be herd immunity to the point that everyone can ride public transportation without face masks by Labor Day!? I don’t. And I don’t think law firms will force anyone into the office until we can all ride the trains without any PPE. I’d be surprised if we were required back into the office this year at all.

I don't think face masks would be the tipping point. If people can ride public transit (masked or not), they will likely be comfortable in the office. Labor day seems to be a timeline by which most people who want a vaccine will be able to have gotten one.

Anyhow, my non-NYC F500 company is starting a phased return to office next week. It will be 2 day a week in the office next week, and permanent 3 days a week thereafter.

If there’s a worry that people can still get it, hence my point about having to wear a mask, firms will not force people back. The most that will happen is a voluntary return phased in over several weeks. I would bet my ass we are not going to have a mandatory return around Labor Day.

I suppose predictions are hard, especially about the future. But my take is that if everyone has the opportunity to be vaccinated by labor day(ish), some firms will start expecting people to come in.

Masking is likely to continue in crowded public spaces for quite some time- possibly years (and well after the risk of personally getting COVID is pretty low). I don't think most firms will allow WFH for years.

[Anonymous User]

I’ve spoken to numerous equity partners at the top firms, and they told me they do not think there will be any mandatory return to the office around Labor Day. Not just equity partners, but big whigs.

[nealric]

I’ve spoken to numerous equity partners at the top firms, and they told me they do not think there will be any mandatory return to the office around Labor Day. Not just equity partners, but big whigs.

I think there's a difference between MANDATORY and effectively mandatory. If you are the only one not coming in and you don't have a specific health condition, there's going to be a lot of implicit pressure to come in. I do not think there's going to be an announced mandatory return to the office around Labor Day, but I do think a lot more people will be coming in then.

[Anonymous User]

Has there been any news about firms considering allowing WFH permanently with visits to the office only when needed? I would LOVE to do that but I don’t want to start putting out feelers until other firms have allowed it

[Anonymous User]

Ropes announced a post-Labor day mandatory return date (with the caveat that it change as the coronavirus situation changes).

What does mandatory mean? Do seniors have the ability to negotiate something more flexible?

Does anyone at any level? I cannot go back to 5 days a week in the office. I'm a junior.

Has Ropes done the thing where they give a return date and continually pushed the date back? Or is this the first time they have actually provided a return date?

At Ropes. Yes, Ropes has done this multiple times. The email just says there will be no mandatory return until after Labor Day (which they'll probably push out like they have before). I read it as meant to give certainty to people working in different states that they won't need to move, e.g., tomorrow if the pandemic magically disappears.

[Anonymous User]

Has there been any news about firms considering allowing WFH permanently with visits to the office only when needed? I would LOVE to do that but I don’t want to start putting out feelers until other firms have allowed it

Yes, at my firm more senior associates are already arranging this (have left commuting distance and will leave the firm if WFH is taken away). Don't listen to nealric, he's not in biglaw and doesn't know what's going on

[Anonymous User]

Any updates on expected return dates or ability to WFH (some or all the time) after return dates?

[Lesion of Doom]

I wonder if firms realize the volume of their associates who will quit if required to report M-F. It's unthinkable for many now that they've experienced more family time, better relationships with their spouses, overall ability to reclaim a touch more of your day, etc. Other than the top shops, firms requiring M-F will be at a massive disadvantage in hiring compared to those offering something more flexible.

[showusyourtorts]

I’ve spoken to numerous equity partners at the top firms, and they told me they do not think there will be any mandatory return to the office around Labor Day. Not just equity partners, but big whigs.

I think there's a difference between MANDATORY and effectively mandatory. If you are the only one not coming in and you don't have a specific health condition, there's going to be a lot of implicit pressure to come in. I do not think there's going to be an announced mandatory return to the office around Labor Day, but I do think a lot more people will be coming in then.

I'm not sure why someone said to not listen to this advice? I feel like this is spot on. If you're a junior or perhaps even mid-level associate that doesn't already have a very strong flow of work, you're going to be at a huge disadvantage against associates that are in the office every day... even if a sizeable minority of partners don't return to the office full-time.

[POPTOP]

No mandatory return in 2022. Book it.

[Anonymous User]

I wonder if firms realize the volume of their associates who will quit if required to report M-F. It's unthinkable for many now that they've experienced more family time, better relationships with their spouses, overall ability to reclaim a touch more of your day, etc. Other than the top shops, firms requiring M-F will be at a massive disadvantage in hiring compared to those offering something more flexible.

+1. WFH is the difference between me leaving or not at this point.

[Anonymous User]

I wonder if firms realize the volume of their associates who will quit if required to report M-F. It's unthinkable for many now that they've experienced more family time, better relationships with their spouses, overall ability to reclaim a touch more of your day, etc. Other than the top shops, firms requiring M-F will be at a massive disadvantage in hiring compared to those offering something more flexible.

+1. WFH is the difference between me leaving or not at this point.

+1. I'd probably quit without something else lined up if forced to report 5 days a week.

[Anonymous User]

Have any firms suggested it would be 5 days a week? That would be surprising but haven’t heard one way or another.

[Anonymous User]

I assume all it's going to take is one firm to come out and say they are going to use a flexible WFH schedule for the rest of the firms to follow, no?

If not, and there becomes a mix of firms who allow flexible work weeks and those who don't, I predict that rankings and such are going to be shaken up quite a bit since it seems like most associates really value WFH.