Columbia EIP 2016 Forum

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone been to any practice interview events and gotten negative feedback?

I've been to a couple, didn't think I did that great, but got some positive feedback. It wasn't like they were frothing at the mouth in love with me, but they said I did well. I'm just wondering if they tell everyone that.

Like, should I assume they were just being nice and didn't have the heart to tell me it didn't go great, or am I actually not a horrible interviewer?

[Anonymous User]

Apologies if this has been asked before--on mass mailing, is there any point to rush to get resumes/cover letters out early or is it better to hold off until we can update our resumes with journal acceptances and/or TA positions?

[iamgeorgebush]

Has anyone been to any practice interview events and gotten negative feedback?

I've been to a couple, didn't think I did that great, but got some positive feedback. It wasn't like they were frothing at the mouth in love with me, but they said I did well. I'm just wondering if they tell everyone that.

Like, should I assume they were just being nice and didn't have the heart to tell me it didn't go great, or am I actually not a horrible interviewer?

Try to worry less about whether you did great in some sort of objective sense, and focus more on doing the best that you can do. It is vital that you seek constructive criticism at these practice interviews so that you can improve. Most interviewers can say something about what you can do better, although they might do so only if prompted.

[iamgeorgebush]

Apologies if this has been asked before--on mass mailing, is there any point to rush to get resumes/cover letters out early or is it better to hold off until we can update our resumes with journal acceptances and/or TA positions?

I'd say start now, or it could be too late. My firm, at least, has already been interviewing people, and I feel like if you wait any longer, they'll just tell you to wait till EIP. At any rate, the only reason to wait would for LR, but you can always send an updated resume if you get on.

But you should definitely not stress if you haven't already been mass mailing. Most people don't do it, and most people do just fine.

[Anonymous User]

Looking for some thoughts on my bid list and help filling out the bottom. Interested in litigation, want to make sure I get interviews with the top LA firms since all things equal I'd rather be there.

3.82 GPA

Rank Firm 2015 FFB
1 Boies (NY) 1
2 Skadden (NY) 3
3 Debevoise (NY) 4
4 Weil (NY) 6
5 Arnold & Porter (NY) 8
6 WilmerHale (NY) 9
7 Paul Weiss (NY) 11
8 Sullivan & Cromwell (NY) 12
9 Cleary (NY) 14
10 Davis Polk (NY) 15
11 Skadden (LA) 16
12 Fried Frank (NY) 16
13 CovingTTTon (NY) 18
14 O'Melveny (LA) 19
15 Proskauer (LA) 17
16 O'Melveny (NY) 19
17 Williams & Connolly (DC) 20
18 Cravath 23
19 Wachtell 24
20 Shearman (NY) *
21 Simpson Thacher (NY) 27
22 Latham (LA) 26
23 Sidley (LA)
24 Munger (LA) *
25 Gibson (LA) *
26 Kirkland (LA) 29
27 Irell (LA) *
28
29
30

[Anonymous User]

Looking for some thoughts on my bid list and help filling out the bottom. Interested in litigation, want to make sure I get interviews with the top LA firms since all things equal I'd rather be there.

3.82 GPA

Rank Firm 2015 FFB
1 Boies (NY) 1
2 Skadden (NY) 3
3 Debevoise (NY) 4
4 Weil (NY) 6
5 Arnold & Porter (NY) 8
6 WilmerHale (NY) 9
7 Paul Weiss (NY) 11
8 Sullivan & Cromwell (NY) 12
9 Cleary (NY) 14
10 Davis Polk (NY) 15
11 Skadden (LA) 16
12 Fried Frank (NY) 16
13 CovingTTTon (NY) 18
14 O'Melveny (LA) 19
15 Proskauer (LA) 17
16 O'Melveny (NY) 19
17 Williams & Connolly (DC) 20
18 Cravath 23
19 Wachtell 24
20 Shearman (NY) *
21 Simpson Thacher (NY) 27
22 Latham (LA) 26
23 Sidley (LA)
24 Munger (LA) *
25 Gibson (LA) *
26 Kirkland (LA) 29
27 Irell (LA) *
28
29
30

What's the thinking on including A&P and Wilmer NY instead of DC/at all? Not sure I see the point to including them if your interest is really in LA. Also don't see a point to including Shearman in there ahead of your LA firms when it has no FFB, and it seems likely you won't need it at all with your grades. Congrats on Kent btw

[Anonymous User]

Looking for some thoughts on my bid list and help filling out the bottom. Interested in litigation, want to make sure I get interviews with the top LA firms since all things equal I'd rather be there.

3.82 GPA

Rank Firm 2015 FFB
1 Boies (NY) 1
2 Skadden (NY) 3
3 Debevoise (NY) 4
4 Weil (NY) 6
5 Arnold & Porter (NY) 8
6 WilmerHale (NY) 9
7 Paul Weiss (NY) 11
8 Sullivan & Cromwell (NY) 12
9 Cleary (NY) 14
10 Davis Polk (NY) 15
11 Skadden (LA) 16
12 Fried Frank (NY) 16
13 CovingTTTon (NY) 18
14 O'Melveny (LA) 19
15 Proskauer (LA) 17
16 O'Melveny (NY) 19
17 Williams & Connolly (DC) 20
18 Cravath 23
19 Wachtell 24
20 Shearman (NY) *
21 Simpson Thacher (NY) 27
22 Latham (LA) 26
23 Sidley (LA)
24 Munger (LA) *
25 Gibson (LA) *
26 Kirkland (LA) 29
27 Irell (LA) *
28
29
30

What's the thinking on including A&P and Wilmer NY instead of DC/at all? Not sure I see the point to including them if your interest is really in LA. Also don't see a point to including Shearman in there ahead of your LA firms when it has no FFB, and it seems likely you won't need it at all with your grades. Congrats on Kent btw

I didn't put any DC on there except W&C because I'd rather be in New York if I'm going to be East Coast. Although I'm really interested in appellate so maybe I should have more DC there.

[Anonymous User]

Why on earth would Weil be on this list, when some of your target firms are less than 5 from FFB?

[jbagelboy]

Looking for some thoughts on my bid list and help filling out the bottom. Interested in litigation, want to make sure I get interviews with the top LA firms since all things equal I'd rather be there.

3.82 GPA

Rank Firm 2015 FFB
1 Boies (NY) 1
2 Skadden (NY) 3
3 Debevoise (NY) 4
4 Weil (NY) 6
5 Arnold & Porter (NY) 8
6 WilmerHale (NY) 9
7 Paul Weiss (NY) 11
8 Sullivan & Cromwell (NY) 12
9 Cleary (NY) 14
10 Davis Polk (NY) 15
11 Skadden (LA) 16
12 Fried Frank (NY) 16
13 CovingTTTon (NY) 18
14 O'Melveny (LA) 19
15 Proskauer (LA) 17
16 O'Melveny (NY) 19
17 Williams & Connolly (DC) 20
18 Cravath 23
19 Wachtell 24
20 Shearman (NY) *
21 Simpson Thacher (NY) 27
22 Latham (LA) 26
23 Sidley (LA)
24 Munger (LA) *
25 Gibson (LA) *
26 Kirkland (LA) 29
27 Irell (LA) *
28
29
30

You want to be in the room with Munger, Gibson, Latham, and Irell. That's your priority. I would toss a handful of the firms you just won't end up going to--Shearman, FF, O'Melveny NY--and reposition that core group. I'd also change Wilmer and A&P NY to their DC or LA office.

[Anonymous User]

Hey. I'm looking for comments/advice on my bid-list. Thanks!
GPA = 3.51

1. Paul Hastings (1)
2. Sidley Austin (2)
3. Hogan Lovells (5)
4. Morrison & Foerster (8)
5. Millbank (8)
6. Ropes & Grey (9)
7. Wilmer Hale (9)
8. Paul Weiss (11)
9. Willkie Farr (11)
10. Akin Gump (14)
11. Fried Frank (16)
12. Cooley (16)
13. Freshfields (17)
14. King & Spalding (18)
15. Kramer Levin (18)
16. O’Melveny (19)
17. Pillsbury (21)
18. Jones Day (24)
19. Cravath (23)
20. Vinson Elkins (23)
21. Crowell (23)
22. Baker and Hostetler (26)
23. Simpson Thatcher (27)
24. Hunton & Williams (27)
25. Sheppard Mullin (29)
26. Shearman (*)
27.
28.
29. McDermott (*)
30. Bryan Cave (*)

[Anonymous User]

Hey. I'm looking for comments/advice on my bid-list. Thanks!
GPA = 3.51

1. Paul Hastings (1)
2. Sidley Austin (2)
3. Hogan Lovells (5)
4. Morrison & Foerster (8)
5. Millbank (8)
6. Ropes & Grey (9)
7. Wilmer Hale (9)
8. Paul Weiss (11)
9. Willkie Farr (11)
10. Akin Gump (14)
11. Fried Frank (16)
12. Cooley (16)
13. Freshfields (17)
14. King & Spalding (18)
15. Kramer Levin (18)
16. O’Melveny (19)
17. Pillsbury (21)
18. Jones Day (24)
19. Cravath (23)
20. Vinson Elkins (23)
21. Crowell (23)
22. Baker and Hostetler (26)
23. Simpson Thatcher (27)
24. Hunton & Williams (27)
25. Sheppard Mullin (29)
26. Shearman (*)
27.
28.
29. McDermott (*)
30. Bryan Cave (*)

What are you looking for? Transactional? Lit? What market(s)?

[Anonymous User]

I'm not sure yet but leaning towards transactional, and I'm only bidding on NY offices.

[Anonymous User]

I'm not sure yet but leaning towards transactional, and I'm only bidding on NY offices.

I think your bid list is conservative for your grades. You should consider adding Skadden, Davis Polk and Cleary, especially if you are leaning NY transactional. I'd also try to add Debevoise, Weil, Latham and K&E (take a look at http://www.chambersandpartners.com/1280 ... torial/5/1).

[Anonymous User]

Thanks for the advice. I'm looking for a firm that is more practical as a long-term prospect, which is why I put Paul Hastings and Sidley as 1 & 2 instead of Kirkland and Skadden. Am I not going about this the right way?

[Anonymous User]

Looking at NY lit. GPA's 3.76. Any advice appreciated, especially any thoughts about filling out the bottom.

1 Boies Schiller (1)
2 Gibson Dunn (3)
3 Debevoise (4)
4 Weil (6)
5 Jenner (9)
6 Paul Weiss (11)
7 Sullivan & Cromwell (12)
8 Wilmer (9)
9 Cleary (14)
10 Davis Polk (15)
11 Cadwalader (14)
12 Fried Frank (16)
13 Latham (17)
14 Covington (18)
15 O'Melveny (19)
16 Hughes Hubbard (21)
17 Cravath (23)
18 Shearman (*)
19 Dechert (23)
20 Simpson (27)
21 Wachtell (24)
22 Jones Day (24)
23 Winston & Strawn (27)
24 Mintz Levin (27)
25 Morgan Lewis (30)

[jbagelboy]

Looking at NY lit. GPA's 3.76. Any advice appreciated, especially any thoughts about filling out the bottom.

1 Boies Schiller (1)
2 Gibson Dunn (3)
3 Debevoise (4)
4 Weil (6)
5 Jenner (9)
6 Paul Weiss (11)
7 Sullivan & Cromwell (12)
8 Wilmer (9)
9 Cleary (14)
10 Davis Polk (15)
11 Cadwalader (14)
12 Fried Frank (16)
13 Latham (17)
14 Covington (18)
15 O'Melveny (19)
16 Hughes Hubbard (21)
17 Cravath (23)
18 Shearman (*)
19 Dechert (23)
20 Simpson (27)
21 Wachtell (24)
22 Jones Day (24)
23 Winston & Strawn (27)
24 Mintz Levin (27)
25 Morgan Lewis (30)

I would drop Weil and Cadwalader so everyone else has more breathing room

Also, I know S&C was weirdly high last year, but I don't see that trend continuing.. Its firmly out of reach for 60% of the class.

[iamgeorgebush]

Thanks for the advice. I'm looking for a firm that is more practical as a long-term prospect, which is why I put Paul Hastings and Sidley as 1 & 2 instead of Kirkland and Skadden. Am I not going about this the right way?

Why you would say that PH and Sidley are "more practical as a long-term prospect" than Kirkland or Skadden? There may be good reasons to omit Kirkland and Skadden (e.g., you think that you would do poorly under Kirkland's "open assignment system" and would not fit in at Skadden), but if by long-term viability you mean something to do with a low chance at partnership, I don't think that those sorts of considerations should inform your bidlist. Not to get too off-topic here, but you probably stand a better chance at making partner at PH or Sidley if you start at Skadden or Kirkland and then lateral over after a few years.

I would add Skadden, DPW, and Cleary if I were you. They have big class sizes, they have pretty good reputations in the main transactional practice areas (M&A, securities/capital markets, and banking/credit), and your GPA is more than adequate for each. Honestly, these firms should be on the bidlist of pretty much anyone who is Stone and is primarily targeting NYC. Also, I don't know where Latham and Weil sit as far as FFB goes, but you might consider adding them as well (for similar reasons).

You can probably nix several of the firms with high FFB to give yourself some comfort that you will get the firms that are more important. For example, you might nix PH, Sidley, and Hogan.

As others have noted elsewhere in this thread, if you are leaning transactional, your first priority should be to make sure that you get interviews at all the top NYC transactional firms with big class sizes for which your GPA qualifies you. Consult Chambers & Partners to figure out what those firms are.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks for the advice. I'm looking for a firm that is more practical as a long-term prospect, which is why I put Paul Hastings and Sidley as 1 & 2 instead of Kirkland and Skadden. Am I not going about this the right way?

You are not going about this the right way. Your long term prospects and short term hours aren't any better at a Sidley than they are at a Cravath. Put differently, the different between the two in terms of profitability and prestige manifests in higher billing rates and steady deal flow - you'll have less dead time, and better job security, if the economy crashes. You will NOT have fewer hours during your busy time. Also, retention at all firms is roughly the same; the top places generally ultimately make more first years into partners, since those firms take fewer lateral over the partner track. We're talking about a small percentage, but you brought up "long term opportunities".

The way that transactional work breaks down is that there's Wachtell, there's ~6 other top transactional firms, then a third tier of another handful, and then like 40 firms that are basically fungible from a 30,000 foot level. Your goal is to get into one of the second tier firms below Wachtell; your safety is ending up at a third tier firm; your failure would be working at a Sidley.

Something to consider is that undershooting - focusing on firms that are worse than your GPA can achieve - is a common symptom of imposter syndrome. You got good grades, you deserve to enjoy the benefits of them. Go big.

[TheoO]

Looking at NY lit. GPA's 3.76. Any advice appreciated, especially any thoughts about filling out the bottom.

1 Boies Schiller (1)
2 Gibson Dunn (3)
3 Debevoise (4)
4 Weil (6)
5 Jenner (9)
6 Paul Weiss (11)
7 Sullivan & Cromwell (12)
8 Wilmer (9)
9 Cleary (14)
10 Davis Polk (15)
11 Cadwalader (14)
12 Fried Frank (16)
13 Latham (17)
14 Covington (18)
15 O'Melveny (19)
16 Hughes Hubbard (21)
17 Cravath (23)
18 Shearman (*)
19 Dechert (23)
20 Simpson (27)
21 Wachtell (24)
22 Jones Day (24)
23 Winston & Strawn (27)
24 Mintz Levin (27)
25 Morgan Lewis (30)

I would drop Weil and Cadwalader so everyone else has more breathing room

Also, I know S&C was weirdly high last year, but I don't see that trend continuing.. Its firmly out of reach for 60% of the class.

Why stop there? He should probably drop hughes, dechert, and fried frank. Not sure there's any point in even wasting that interview time.

[Anonymous User]

Looking at NY lit. GPA's 3.76. Any advice appreciated, especially any thoughts about filling out the bottom.

1 Boies Schiller (1)
2 Gibson Dunn (3)
3 Debevoise (4)
4 Weil (6)
5 Jenner (9)
6 Paul Weiss (11)
7 Sullivan & Cromwell (12)
8 Wilmer (9)
9 Cleary (14)
10 Davis Polk (15)
11 Cadwalader (14)
12 Fried Frank (16)
13 Latham (17)
14 Covington (18)
15 O'Melveny (19)
16 Hughes Hubbard (21)
17 Cravath (23)
18 Shearman (*)
19 Dechert (23)
20 Simpson (27)
21 Wachtell (24)
22 Jones Day (24)
23 Winston & Strawn (27)
24 Mintz Levin (27)
25 Morgan Lewis (30)

I would drop Weil and Cadwalader so everyone else has more breathing room

Also, I know S&C was weirdly high last year, but I don't see that trend continuing.. Its firmly out of reach for 60% of the class.

Why stop there? He should probably drop hughes, dechert, and fried frank. Not sure there's any point in even wasting that interview time.

Not disagreeing, but dropping Weil is more of a priority since its so high on his/her bid list.

[Anonymous User]

3.51 from above. I'm hesitant to remove firms such as Paul Hastings and Sidley bc my understanding is that associates are "happier" at those firms. Any further suggestions?

1. Paul Hastings (1)
2. Sidley Austin (2)
3. Morrison & Foerster (8)
4. Ropes & Grey (9)
5. Paul Weiss (11)
6. Willkie Farr (11)
7. Cleary (14)
8. Akin Gump (14)
9. Davis Polk (15)
10. Cooley (16)
11. Latham (17)
12. Freshfields (17)
13. King & Spalding (18)
14. Kramer Levin (18)
15. O’Melveny (19)
16. Cravath (23)
17. Vinson Elkins (23)
18. Chadbourne (21)
19. Crowell (23)
20. Jones Day (24)
21. Baker and Hostetler (26)
22. Simpson Thatcher (27)
23. Hunton & Williams (27)
24. Sheppard Mullin (29)
25. Haynes and Boone (28)
26. Winston & Strawn (27)
27. Morgan Lewish (30)
28. Shearman (*)
29. McDermott (*)
30. Bryan Cave (*)

[Anonymous User]

3.51 from above. I'm hesitant to remove firms such as Paul Hastings and Sidley bc my understanding is that associates are "happier" at those firms. Any further suggestions?

1. Paul Hastings (1)
2. Sidley Austin (2)
3. Morrison & Foerster (8)
4. Ropes & Grey (9)
5. Paul Weiss (11)
6. Willkie Farr (11)
7. Cleary (14)
8. Akin Gump (14)
9. Davis Polk (15)
10. Cooley (16)
11. Latham (17)
12. Freshfields (17)
13. King & Spalding (18)
14. Kramer Levin (18)
15. O’Melveny (19)
16. Cravath (23)
17. Vinson Elkins (23)
18. Chadbourne (21)
19. Crowell (23)
20. Jones Day (24)
21. Baker and Hostetler (26)
22. Simpson Thatcher (27)
23. Hunton & Williams (27)
24. Sheppard Mullin (29)
25. Haynes and Boone (28)
26. Winston & Strawn (27)
27. Morgan Lewish (30)
28. Shearman (*)
29. McDermott (*)
30. Bryan Cave (*)

Ahahahahha "associates are happier at those firms".

Look man (or woman), I don't want to abuse anon, so I will try to make this constructive. I have a deep knowledge of how NYC transactional law firms work. That's the single most misguided thing I've ever read on this board - to the point that I wonder if this isn't Paul Hastings or Sidley HR flame. No, associates aren't happier at those firms, and I literally can't imagine anyone who has done a modicum of diligence believing that to be the case. It's your bid list and your career, but proceed at your risk - you have a wild misconception of how NYC biglaw works, and you should fix that before you get thrown to the wolves.

[Anonymous User]

Looking for comments on my bid list. Is this too tight?
Median-ish, projects and FCPA interest. All NY.

1. Paul Hastings (1)
2. Mayer Brown (3)
3. Debevoise (4)
4. White & Case (5)
5. Milbank (8)
6. Allen & Overy (8)
7. Ropes & Gray (9)
8. Willkie (11)
9. Schulte (12)
10. Cleary (14)
11. Cadwalader (14)
12. Fried Frank (16)
13. Goodwin (17)
14. Covington (18)
15. King & Spalding (18)
16. Kramer Levin (18)
17. OMM (18)
18. Orrick (19)
19. Pillsbury (21)
20. Baker Botts (22)
21. Chadbourne (24)
22. Hughes Hubbard (21)
23. Vinson & Elkins (23)
24. Hunton & Williams (27)
25. Simpson Thacher (27)
26. Winston & Strawn (27)
27. Morgan Lewis (30)
28. Clifford Chance (DC) (N/A)
29. Ashurst (*)
30. Norton Rose (*)

[pinkiepie]

Looking for comments on my bid list. Is this too tight?
Median-ish, projects and FCPA interest. All NY.

1. Paul Hastings (1)
2. Mayer Brown (3)
3. Debevoise (4)
4. White & Case (5)
5. Milbank (8)
6. Allen & Overy (8)
7. Ropes & Gray (9)
8. Willkie (11)
9. Schulte (12)
10. Cleary (14)
11. Cadwalader (14)
12. Fried Frank (16)
13. Goodwin (17)
14. Covington (18)
15. King & Spalding (18)
16. Kramer Levin (18)
17. OMM (18)
18. Orrick (19)
19. Pillsbury (21)
20. Baker Botts (22)
21. Chadbourne (24)
22. Hughes Hubbard (21)
23. Vinson & Elkins (23)
24. Hunton & Williams (27)
25. Simpson Thacher (27)
26. Winston & Strawn (27)
27. Morgan Lewis (30)
28. Clifford Chance (DC) (N/A)
29. Ashurst (*)
30. Norton Rose (*)

Definitely too tight. You'll probably miss several important firms with this list. You want to be 4-5 spots above FFB for your key firms, and that means taking out a few to save the rest.

Take out Covington since you're not Stone, and probably Cleary as well. That will give you breathing room in your bottom half. I also recommend being conservative in your top ten, taking out a couple that are less strong in FCPA/projects or where you see less fit.

[jbagelboy]

Looking at NY lit. GPA's 3.76. Any advice appreciated, especially any thoughts about filling out the bottom.

1 Boies Schiller (1)
2 Gibson Dunn (3)
3 Debevoise (4)
4 Weil (6)
5 Jenner (9)
6 Paul Weiss (11)
7 Sullivan & Cromwell (12)
8 Wilmer (9)
9 Cleary (14)
10 Davis Polk (15)
11 Cadwalader (14)
12 Fried Frank (16)
13 Latham (17)
14 Covington (18)
15 O'Melveny (19)
16 Hughes Hubbard (21)
17 Cravath (23)
18 Shearman (*)
19 Dechert (23)
20 Simpson (27)
21 Wachtell (24)
22 Jones Day (24)
23 Winston & Strawn (27)
24 Mintz Levin (27)
25 Morgan Lewis (30)

I would drop Weil and Cadwalader so everyone else has more breathing room

Also, I know S&C was weirdly high last year, but I don't see that trend continuing.. Its firmly out of reach for 60% of the class.

Why stop there? He should probably drop hughes, dechert, and fried frank. Not sure there's any point in even wasting that interview time.

Not disagreeing, but dropping Weil is more of a priority since its so high on his/her bid list.

^that.

its fine to have firms listed 20+ that you ultimately might not want to interview with, because there's an add drop period after you've been assigned your interviews that one should feel free to use liberally