Cravath's Spawn - the Wave of Copycats - RUNNING TALLY Forum

[barkschool]

Yeah, this is what I'm wondering for DC firms as well.

Like half of the Vault top 25 list for DC has already matched. They're firms that are headquartered elsewhere, but where a firm is headquartered isn't really important anymore. The phenomenon of DC-headquartered firms trying to resist the market is really just a leftover attitude from an era when the vast majority of biglaw jobs in DC were with a handful of firms that were headquartered there. That isn't the case anymore, so they won't be able to resist the market.

I suspect that a lot of the firms that haven't announced anything yet aren't actually deciding whether to match in major markets, but whether they need to match in minor markets too. A lot of the firms that have announced thus far only have offices in major markets, so it was an easier call for them. For firms with offices in Denver and Philly and whatnot, they have more to figure out before they can announce I think.

On one hand I don't think it's awful to pay attorneys in vastly different COL areas different salaries. But the reality is that these attorneys work across offices so seamlessly now, doing much the same work, that paying them differently makes little sense.

[Anonymous User]

OP, can you update the opening post with the firms that announced last Friday? I remember White & Case (the offices already on the 160k scale) and Shearman (all US associates) did.
White & Case: http://abovethelaw.com/2016/06/another- ... ssociates/
Shearman & Sterling: http://abovethelaw.com/2016/06/biglaw-f ... ay-raises/

[UnicornHunter]

Yeah, this is what I'm wondering for DC firms as well.

Like half of the Vault top 25 list for DC has already matched. They're firms that are headquartered elsewhere, but where a firm is headquartered isn't really important anymore. The phenomenon of DC-headquartered firms trying to resist the market is really just a leftover attitude from an era when the vast majority of biglaw jobs in DC were with a handful of firms that were headquartered there. That isn't the case anymore, so they won't be able to resist the market.

I suspect that a lot of the firms that haven't announced anything yet aren't actually deciding whether to match in major markets, but whether they need to match in minor markets too. A lot of the firms that have announced thus far only have offices in major markets, so it was an easier call for them. For firms with offices in Denver and Philly and whatnot, they have more to figure out before they can announce I think.

On one hand I don't think it's awful to pay attorneys in vastly different COL areas different salaries. But the reality is that these attorneys work across offices so seamlessly now, doing much the same work, that paying them differently makes little sense.

Pay isn't about fairness though, it's about what the market will bear. A lot of people would take $20,000 less/year to work in Denver or Philly, so there's really no reason to match unless you're worried about signaling or morale or something.

[Anonymous User]

Yeah, this is what I'm wondering for DC firms as well.

Like half of the Vault top 25 list for DC has already matched. They're firms that are headquartered elsewhere, but where a firm is headquartered isn't really important anymore. The phenomenon of DC-headquartered firms trying to resist the market is really just a leftover attitude from an era when the vast majority of biglaw jobs in DC were with a handful of firms that were headquartered there. That isn't the case anymore, so they won't be able to resist the market.

I suspect that a lot of the firms that haven't announced anything yet aren't actually deciding whether to match in major markets, but whether they need to match in minor markets too. A lot of the firms that have announced thus far only have offices in major markets, so it was an easier call for them. For firms with offices in Denver and Philly and whatnot, they have more to figure out before they can announce I think.

Yeah, I agree with this 100%. DC's gonna match eventually, and Covington's gesture is going to be meaningless a few months from now. Agree that the firms that haven't matched yet are just trying to figure out what to do with the secondary markets. FTR, I'm an associate at one of the big Philly-based firms, and word is that we're going to make a decision in a couple weeks.

[Anonymous User]

Yeah, this is what I'm wondering for DC firms as well.

Like half of the Vault top 25 list for DC has already matched. They're firms that are headquartered elsewhere, but where a firm is headquartered isn't really important anymore. The phenomenon of DC-headquartered firms trying to resist the market is really just a leftover attitude from an era when the vast majority of biglaw jobs in DC were with a handful of firms that were headquartered there. That isn't the case anymore, so they won't be able to resist the market.

I suspect that a lot of the firms that haven't announced anything yet aren't actually deciding whether to match in major markets, but whether they need to match in minor markets too. A lot of the firms that have announced thus far only have offices in major markets, so it was an easier call for them. For firms with offices in Denver and Philly and whatnot, they have more to figure out before they can announce I think.

Yeah, I agree with this 100%. DC's gonna match eventually, and Covington's gesture is going to be meaningless a few months from now. Agree that the firms that haven't matched yet are just trying to figure out what to do with the secondary markets. FTR, I'm an associate at one of the big Philly-based firms, and word is that we're going to make a decision in a couple weeks.

Care to share which firm? Presumably Dechert/MLB...

[Nachoo2019]

Posted this in the other thread as well. Here is ATL's copy of this thread they released this morning:

http://abovethelaw.com/2016/06/salary-w ... ed-raises/

[Anonymous User]

Yeah, this is what I'm wondering for DC firms as well.

Like half of the Vault top 25 list for DC has already matched. They're firms that are headquartered elsewhere, but where a firm is headquartered isn't really important anymore. The phenomenon of DC-headquartered firms trying to resist the market is really just a leftover attitude from an era when the vast majority of biglaw jobs in DC were with a handful of firms that were headquartered there. That isn't the case anymore, so they won't be able to resist the market.

I suspect that a lot of the firms that haven't announced anything yet aren't actually deciding whether to match in major markets, but whether they need to match in minor markets too. A lot of the firms that have announced thus far only have offices in major markets, so it was an easier call for them. For firms with offices in Denver and Philly and whatnot, they have more to figure out before they can announce I think.

Yeah, I agree with this 100%. DC's gonna match eventually, and Covington's gesture is going to be meaningless a few months from now. Agree that the firms that haven't matched yet are just trying to figure out what to do with the secondary markets. FTR, I'm an associate at one of the big Philly-based firms, and word is that we're going to make a decision in a couple weeks.

This is what I'm thinking is going at the Philly firms. I'm guessing Dechert is waiting to see if Boston goes up and if Cadwalader matches in Charlotte before making any decisions. Philly itself is the big question mark. They only moved to 160 last year so I can't imagine they'd be thrilled to up it again. MLB already doesn't pay market in all of its offices, so I can't imagine it will move those offices and it probably won't move Philly unless Dechert does. I'm betting the Philly firms will match in NYC/DC/Chi/LA/Texas.

[Anonymous User]

Posted this in the other thread as well. Here is ATL's copy of this thread they released this morning:

http://abovethelaw.com/2016/06/salary-w ... ed-raises/

Full time jack move of this thread.

[Anonymous User]

Hogan confirmed. All offices except Miami and Colorado Springs, which get commensurate percentage raises above what they're paid now.

[Anonymous User]

Hogan confirmed. All offices except Miami and Colorado Springs, which get commensurate percentage raises above what they're paid now.

Then does that include Hogan Philly? What about a lot of their other smaller market offices? They'll really pay 180k in Minneapolis, Louisville, etc?

[Anonymous User]

Hogan confirmed. All offices except Miami and Colorado Springs, which get commensurate percentage raises above what they're paid now.

Then does that include Hogan Philly? What about a lot of their other smaller market offices? They'll really pay 180k in Minneapolis, Louisville, etc?

It seems they are bumping up by the same amounts as Cravath, so if the cities aren't already at $160, it won't go to $180.

http://abovethelaw.com/2016/06/peer-pre ... nsation/2/

[Anonymous User]

Matches today:

Akin Gump http://abovethelaw.com/2016/06/back-of- ... -salaries/
Locke Lord (http://abovethelaw.com/2016/06/biglaw-f ... ch-market/)
MoFo (http://abovethelaw.com/2016/06/biglaw-f ... -salaries/)
Paul Hastings (http://abovethelaw.com/2016/06/top-cali ... ry-raises/)
Hogan Lovells (http://abovethelaw.com/2016/06/peer-pre ... pensation/)
Wilson Sonsini (http://abovethelaw.com/2016/06/silicon- ... ciate-pay/)
Gibson Dunn (http://abovethelaw.com/2016/06/leading- ... the-money/)
Ropes & Gray (http://abovethelaw.com/2016/06/how-you- ... -salaries/)

[Anonymous User]

Has OP updated the list recently?

[Yea All Right]

Akin Gump matched all US offices, including Philadelphia. Could this mean Philadelphia will move?!

Edit: And Hogan has an office in Philadelphia that presumably matched 180k too!

[NJPitcher]

Akin Gump matched all US offices, including Philadelphia. Could this mean Philadelphia will move?!

Edit: And Hogan has an office in Philadelphia that presumably matched 180k too!

As a Penn grad who chose NY over Philly... 180k goes wayyyy further in Philly than NY. I had a nice house with a backyard that was 15 minutes to center city by trolley for the same price I'm currently paying for my one bedroom in Brooklyn 40 minutes from the office. Philly to 180 would be awesome. Can't say I'm not a bit jealous.

[ballouttacontrol]

Akin Gump was 160k in Philly longgggg before Philly paid 160 which didn't happen till this past year. They only have like 17 attorneys there, and they are all life science patent litigators. So not really representative or a competitor to any Philly firms except maybe Baker Hosteller, which never kept up with Akin before

[rpupkin]

Akin Gump was 160k in Philly longgggg before Philly paid 160 which didn't happen till this past year. They only have like 17 attorneys there, and they are all life science patent litigators. So not really representative or a competitor to any Philly firms except maybe Baker Hosteller, which never kept up with Akin before

Yep. I don't expect other Philly firms/offices to go to 180K anytime soon.

[Anonymous User]

Heard from a friend that Mofo matched today with a raise in summer SA pay as well. Not sure if all offices but I think so since said friend is in a secondary market.

[hoos89]

Heard from a friend that Mofo matched today with a raise in summer SA pay as well. Not sure if all offices but I think so since said friend is in a secondary market.

http://abovethelaw.com/2016/06/biglaw-f ... -salaries/

[trbrny]

List updated. Let me know if I missed any.

[wlee1220]

List updated. Let me know if I missed any.

You missed Shearman from Sunday evening.

[Anonymous User]

List updated. Let me know if I missed any.

You missed Shearman from Sunday evening.

No, OP included Shearman correctly. Shearman announced last Friday.

[Anonymous User]

Fried Frank already this morning.

Is anyone left from the V25 that hasn't announced (besides Covington)?

Can anyone list the V50s that haven't announced?

[Anonymous User]

Fried Frank already this morning.

Is anyone left from the V25 that hasn't announced (besides Covington)?

Can anyone list the V50s that haven't announced?

Just look at the OP or ATL table and compare it to Vault

[emkay625]

As I noted in the other thread, because Susman has no first years, it's a match, not above Cravath. A second year at Cravath is paid the same salary as a second year at Susman, etc.

Are you sure? If that's right--if "First Year" in Susman's memo means "first year working at Susman Godfrey," then the firm actually pays below market to someone who did two clerkships. Given that many of their associates did a district court clerkship and a COA clerkship, that doesn't seem right.

Susman literally does not hire first years. You have to do a clerkship. Their "first years" are really second years, and if you do a two year clerkship then you come in as a "second year" aka a third year.

This is OP. This is correct. Again, Susman paid market salaries before and was even behind on matching market increases in their Houston office until earlier this decade.

Susman is a VERY PR-friendly firm. If they were in fact paying above market ($35k above in some isntances), they would have made that clear in their press release. They didn't do so.

Also compare the two scales. If you take Susman's "first year" and compare it to the Cravath "second year," Susman's "second year" and Cravath's "third year," you'll see they match up perfectly. That's not a coincidence.

I think you guys are wrong about Susman. I think the 190K is what you would get for your stub year (end of clerkship - January) and then you get elevated to the second year salary (210) in January. So this would be above market - at any other firm matching Cravath coming off of a clerkship you'd get 180K for your stub year and then get elevated to 190K in January. Am I missing something?