Biglaw Salaries going up? Forum

[twenty 8]

Aside from some firm in Houston paying $180k, I read where Dechert raised Philly to $160k. If they do this in their other markets (Boston, SF, LA, Charlotte, etc.) then NYC will become a high COL market that just pays scale.

[UnicornHunter]

Seems like firms budget for attrition in their current base salaries though. Firms were paying 160k for a few years before the crash and that seemed fine to keep associates long enough back then.

There has been 8 years of inflation eatting away at that.

I think one big problem firms will face is that they stopped factoring in attrition during the recession and the years after. They spent many years under-hiring. That is why bonuses went up.

Also since doc review work dried up, they aren't hiring as many Juniors. In the boom times, you'd have juniors do 3 years of doc review who then left. Since there isn't doc review (at least enough to keep people busy for year), the litigation organization chart is looks like a house instead of a pyramid. In some practice it is like a silo.

So far they get away with that because lit has shit exit options. People just stay. If that changes, they'll have to pony up.

lol

[Desert Fox]

Seems like firms budget for attrition in their current base salaries though. Firms were paying 160k for a few years before the crash and that seemed fine to keep associates long enough back then.

There has been 8 years of inflation eatting away at that.

I think one big problem firms will face is that they stopped factoring in attrition during the recession and the years after. They spent many years under-hiring. That is why bonuses went up.

Also since doc review work dried up, they aren't hiring as many Juniors. In the boom times, you'd have juniors do 3 years of doc review who then left. Since there isn't doc review (at least enough to keep people busy for year), the litigation organization chart is looks like a house instead of a pyramid. In some practice it is like a silo.

So far they get away with that because lit has shit exit options. People just stay. If that changes, they'll have to pony up.

lol

DF praying for another massive oil spill.

[Johann]

Aside from some firm in Houston paying $180k, I read where Dechert raised Philly to $160k. If they do this in their other markets (Boston, SF, LA, Charlotte, etc.) then NYC will become a high COL market that just pays scale.

People also choose NYC over other cities for law prestige of the biggest deals and city prestige of NYC. So NYC vs other cities isn't really a concern at this point either.

If law students stopped choosing prestige, tuition would go down by 20%+ and salaries up by 10%.

[sublime]

..

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

Just to summarize for everyone following along not participating:

The actual lawyers agree no big raise is coming. Maybe 170k for first years.
The law students who will put their money where their mouth is believe a pay raise is def in order but only 170k is in the cards for 5 or major NYC firms and only NYC.
The law students making bulldog talk with a puppydog ass think 175k+ is in the cards for lots of firms in NYC and other primary markets.

Precisely nobody ITT predicted the magnitude of the DPW bonuses last year, so I'm not trusting anyone who claims to be highly confident one way or the other.

Should an increase occur, I think there would be further segmentation, but well more than 5 would match. I would be very surprised if at least 90% of the firms that paid market bonuses last year didn't match a modest increase in NYC. As for outside NYC, I'd be more skeptical, since not that many firms matched DPW and IIRC it took some time for LA/DC to go to 160.

Like I said, I'd take a 50/50 bet that any firm paying $160k or more to first-years in any market raises the base salary of any class sometime in the next year.

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

Aside from some firm in Houston paying $180k, I read where Dechert raised Philly to $160k. If they do this in their other markets (Boston, SF, LA, Charlotte, etc.) then NYC will become a high COL market that just pays scale.

People also choose NYC over other cities for law prestige of the biggest deals and city prestige of NYC. So NYC vs other cities isn't really a concern at this point either.

If law students stopped choosing prestige, tuition would go down by 20%+ and salaries up by 10%.

Things might've changed years ago if people stopped picking Cleary over Boies, S&C over Kirkland, or NYC over Texas (or really any other market besides SF), or if they ever gave a shit about Cahill or Duval. Next to Wachtell, V&E has a colorable claim to being the highest-paying large firm in the country. Law students should be banging down their door.

[Desert Fox]

Aside from some firm in Houston paying $180k, I read where Dechert raised Philly to $160k. If they do this in their other markets (Boston, SF, LA, Charlotte, etc.) then NYC will become a high COL market that just pays scale.

People also choose NYC over other cities for law prestige of the biggest deals and city prestige of NYC. So NYC vs other cities isn't really a concern at this point either.

If law students stopped choosing prestige, tuition would go down by 20%+ and salaries up by 10%.

Things might've changed years ago if people stopped picking Cleary over Boies, S&C over Kirkland, or NYC over Texas (or really any other market besides SF), or if they ever gave a shit about Cahill or Duval. Next to Wachtell, V&E has a colorable claim to being the highest-paying large firm in the country. Law students should be banging down their door.

V&E pays above market?

[Lawyerrr]

Aside from some firm in Houston paying $180k, I read where Dechert raised Philly to $160k. If they do this in their other markets (Boston, SF, LA, Charlotte, etc.) then NYC will become a high COL market that just pays scale.

People also choose NYC over other cities for law prestige of the biggest deals and city prestige of NYC. So NYC vs other cities isn't really a concern at this point either.

If law students stopped choosing prestige, tuition would go down by 20%+ and salaries up by 10%.

Things might've changed years ago if people stopped picking Cleary over Boies, S&C over Kirkland, or NYC over Texas (or really any other market besides SF), or if they ever gave a shit about Cahill or Duval. Next to Wachtell, V&E has a colorable claim to being the highest-paying large firm in the country. Law students should be banging down their door.

I think most people would pick Boies over Cleary. Also, tons of people lateral from places like S&C/Skadden to Kirkland for higher pay. Maybe 2Ls will pick S&C cuz it's ranked higher, but mid-levels care more about money.

[skers]

A ton of people do those things. Stop talking so much about shit you don't know about dude.

[Mal Reynolds]

People pick S&C because it's a backdoor to Goldman and who doesn't want that.

[Yukos]

My completely baseless prediction: Silicon Valley is going to raise salaries first.

1) Local economy is still doing really well (maybe best in the country)

2) COL is going up insanely fast; SF rent = NY rent

3) SV is the worst of all worlds for an associate--super dull and expensive, and the commute from SF is awful

4) Firms can't rely on prestige to recruit students like V5 firms can

5) In-house competition from the big tech companies and startups is very real

6) It happened before--Gunderson led the charge in 1999

7) Might give them access to people who grew up on the East Coast and had never heard of firms like WSGR/F&W or considered moving to California.

SV to 190.

[Big Shrimpin]

Is it fraud if we come up with an elaborate hoax to trick ATL into thinking a firm went to 190!

let's do it

[Big Shrimpin]

People pick S&C because it's a backdoor to Goldman and who doesn't want that.

our corp dept does tons of secondments and sends ppl to client side all the time, must be legit

if I can't get go BIGPHARMA client side lit dept im just gonna DIAF

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

Aside from some firm in Houston paying $180k, I read where Dechert raised Philly to $160k. If they do this in their other markets (Boston, SF, LA, Charlotte, etc.) then NYC will become a high COL market that just pays scale.

People also choose NYC over other cities for law prestige of the biggest deals and city prestige of NYC. So NYC vs other cities isn't really a concern at this point either.

If law students stopped choosing prestige, tuition would go down by 20%+ and salaries up by 10%.

Things might've changed years ago if people stopped picking Cleary over Boies, S&C over Kirkland, or NYC over Texas (or really any other market besides SF), or if they ever gave a shit about Cahill or Duval. Next to Wachtell, V&E has a colorable claim to being the highest-paying large firm in the country. Law students should be banging down their door.

I think most people would pick Boies over Cleary. Also, tons of people lateral from places like S&C/Skadden to Kirkland for higher pay. Maybe 2Ls will pick S&C cuz it's ranked higher, but mid-levels care more about money.

You're right. Sorry, meant to clarify that it's 2Ls doing those things in large numbers.

Aside from some firm in Houston paying $180k, I read where Dechert raised Philly to $160k. If they do this in their other markets (Boston, SF, LA, Charlotte, etc.) then NYC will become a high COL market that just pays scale.

People also choose NYC over other cities for law prestige of the biggest deals and city prestige of NYC. So NYC vs other cities isn't really a concern at this point either.

If law students stopped choosing prestige, tuition would go down by 20%+ and salaries up by 10%.

Things might've changed years ago if people stopped picking Cleary over Boies, S&C over Kirkland, or NYC over Texas (or really any other market besides SF), or if they ever gave a shit about Cahill or Duval. Next to Wachtell, V&E has a colorable claim to being the highest-paying large firm in the country. Law students should be banging down their door.

V&E pays above market?

At Houston taxes/COL, a V&E Houston first-year is taking home $100k AFTER payment on 2000 sq ft. No large firm except for WLRK could claim anything close (except for W&C at their new scale, but they're below DPW for midlevels). That was the gist (although apparently some people at V&E were in fact getting above market bonuses).

[Desert Fox]

u mean other than every other Texas firm that pays market?

[Big Shrimpin]

u mean other than every other Texas firm that pays market?

if u want 2 get rich in BIGLAW go TX and STACK CASH

plus u get 2 has a 3000 sqft house/wife

[Desert Fox]

Chicago is the perfect mix of low COL and living in a nice city.

[rpupkin]

u mean other than every other Texas firm that pays market?

if u want 2 get rich in BIGLAW go TX and STACK CASH

plus u get 2 has a 3000 sqft house/wife

That's a lot of woman.

[Big Shrimpin]

Chicago is the perfect mix of low COL and living in a nice city.

ya if u r an eskimo or love to be cold 9 months of the year

mfh winter has me wanting 2 move 2 CA, ill bring my own water

[Anonymous User]

u mean other than every other Texas firm that pays market?

Someone posted that Baker Botts paid above market to high-billers as well

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

u mean other than every other Texas firm that pays market?

Did anyone else pay market bonuses in Houston? If Dallas is a little cheaper than I suppose it's Weil, Akin Gump, or whoever else was paying full DPW there.

ETA: If Baker Botts did that any of those would be in roughly the same grouping.

[Anonymous User]

Chicago is the perfect mix of low COL and living in a nice city.

ya if u r an eskimo or love to be cold 9 months of the year

mfh winter has me wanting 2 move 2 CA, ill bring my own water

LA Biglaw is where it's at, man. Perfect weather, lower COL, less stress, less slave-driving, and same pay (if you're at a NYC market-paying firm, which thankfully I am). LA is way better than the high strung, narcissistic, and overly-priced shithole that is MFH. Please bring extra water with you

[Desert Fox]

All the V100 sat. offices did, so I'm guessing the home grown people did too.

Rumor K&E was offering 100k signing bonus last spring to anyone going to Houston for O&G wrk.

[Anonymous User]

u mean other than every other Texas firm that pays market?

Did anyone else pay market bonuses in Houston? If Dallas is a little cheaper than I suppose it's Weil, Akin Gump, or whoever else was paying full DPW there.

ETA: If Baker Botts did that any of those would be in roughly the same grouping.

In terms of Dallas-

Above Market: BB, V&E, I assume Jones Day for some

Market: Weil, Akin

Below Market: Sidley, Hayboo, Locke Lord

Unsure: GDC (I assume Market)