UVA 2014 OGI CBs, Dings, & Offers Forum

[Anonymous User]

I haven't heard anything.

ATL firms are moving slowly this year.

[Wahoos]

So a partner chairing the diversity committee and also sitting on the hiring committee and another partner who was head of his practice group wouldn't count as a strong pull? This whole process is really just a sham. Firms should all just move to the Quinn model with a GPA cutoff because that's essentially what they are doing here. Once you're passed a threshold you're in consideration and other things come into play, but if you aren't it's a ding no matter what.

It's not quite the way that you are painting it to be.

You may not want to hear this, but maybe you are not as good of an interviewer as you thought, maybe you did not interview as well with this firm as you thought you did, maybe your classmates were more qualified/ better interviewers than you, etc.

These firms are not giving out offers solely on GPA, though that obviously is one of the factors. Yes, some firms have cutoffs, but unless they straight up told you it's the reason you got dinged, it is a bit presumptuous for you to assume that. The best thing you can do is improve your attitude and interviewing and keep hustling to get a job

[First Offense]

You may not want to hear this, but maybe you are not as good of an interviewer as you thought

This. Everyone thinks they're a "strong interviewer". Not everyone is.

[Anonymous User]

You may not want to hear this, but maybe you are not as good of an interviewer as you thought

This. Everyone thinks they're a "strong interviewer". Not everyone is.

I've been told by numerous employers and KD himself that I am a very strong interviewer (KD rated me 5/5 which he himself has stated he rarely does). I actually didn't think I was a good interviewer before recruiting started since I had never done it before to this extent. I am hustling and I have plenty of CBs and a few offers, but it just stings that doing everything else right with a top choice firm (networking, having important people vouch for you, etc.) isn't enough to make up for being 0.10 away from their normal minimum GPA. Of course I realize that there are other people who may have interviewed better for the firm, but I know from when I looked at the list that NO ONE else who interviewed with the firm had as strong ties to the market in question as I did and this market values ties. In fact, most had no ties at all and the people I know who got interviews with these firms aren't even targeting this market as their primary or secondary choice.

/conversation on this topic

[Wahoos]

You may not want to hear this, but maybe you are not as good of an interviewer as you thought

This. Everyone thinks they're a "strong interviewer". Not everyone is.

I've been told by numerous employers and KD himself that I am a very strong interviewer (KD rated me 5/5 which he himself has stated he rarely does). I actually didn't think I was a good interviewer before recruiting started since I had never done it before to this extent. I am hustling and I have plenty of CBs and a few offers, but it just stings that doing everything else right with a top choice firm (networking, having important people vouch for you, etc.) isn't enough to make up for being 0.10 away from their normal minimum GPA. Of course I realize that there are other people who may have interviewed better for the firm, but I know from when I looked at the list that NO ONE else who interviewed with the firm had as strong ties to the market in question as I did and this market values ties. In fact, most had no ties at all and the people I know who got interviews with these firms aren't even targeting this market as their primary or secondary choice.

/conversation on this topic

You are really digging yourself a deeper hole with this attitude, especially doing things like looking at the list of interviewees and proclaiming your ties to be stronger than theirs (another factor which is not 100% determinative, so I'm not sure how this is relevant to what you are saying here)

I'm sure you are a good interviewer, and I'm sure KD said you are. He is probably in the top tier of people who can assess such qualities. But he's not superhuman and capable of giving you an objective rating as to how you would do/ actually did in these interviews.

It's just silly to blame it on purely a grade cutoff unless you have specifically been told that. Keep optimistic about upcoming interviews, keep working on improving in interviewing, and you will increase your chances of things working out. Good luck

[Anonymous User]

It's just silly to blame it on purely a grade cutoff unless you have specifically been told that.

I'm not sure why you find it so hard to believe that there are firms who have a grade cutoff. There completely are-- that's why there are GPA bands listed, that's why career services doesn't want ppl to bid on certain firms, that's why some firms even ask what your GPA is in lottery screener interviews, etc. I think OP has a point. It's a pretty crappy thing to deal with, especially when you feel like there's nothing you can do to overcome it.

OP, I know it seems like a sham but it's probably for the better. I try to frame it as I wouldn't want to work at a place that is so rigid about grades when no one really cares about the nuances of your law school grades after your first job. Most places, especially in DC, pay all about the same. Sounds like you have good options regardless. Good luck!

[5ky]

Grade cut-offs are real. If you knew they had one and you knew you were below it by 0.1 (which is a pretty big margin, all things considered), then it shouldn't be surprising to you.

Maybe the partners dropped your name to get you a preselect (since you wouldn't have gotten one if you were below the cut-off) and then let it go on its own from there. If it were impossible to get a cb/offer with your grades, you wouldn't have gotten a preselect. If you didn't get a preselect, that should have been a signal to you that your networking didn't pay off at all already.

It's possible to be a great interviewer and yet the person interviewing you still doesn't like you. Nobody owed you a callback/offer, especially being well below their grade cut-off.

[First Offense]

The OP of this conversation is just coming off as entitled, which makes it really hard to sympathize. Firms have grade cut-offs, and some of them are hard, and some are soft. These are the realities of the profession. There's a reason people say 1L grades are important - jobs don't go to the best interviewer or person with the most convincing ties - it's a more holistic process with a number of factors, and chief among them is probably grades. We all like to think we're special snowflakes, but we're not, and whether wisely or not, firms have decided that 1L grades are the predictor of success as associates that they are going to rely on when making hiring decisions.

Anyway, long story short: OP comes off as a special snowflake, and .1 is actually a not-insignificant difference in GPA.

[pertristis]

Grade cutoffs act as heuristics, especially for firms that interview a lot of potential SAs. A V10 or DC equivalent will interview hundreds of candidates for a limited number of jobs. Even within the group they interviewed at OGI, they have a limited number of CBs to offer. Cutoffs are a quick, easily administrable way to cull down that list to something more manageable.

And regarding being .10 off: If you've a 3.70 instead of a 3.80, I'm sorry you didn't get W&C/Cravath, but you ended up somewhere great, I'm sure. If you've a 3.40 instead of a 3.50, there are forty or fifty people between you and a 3.50. That's not de minimis.

[Anonymous User]

Getting back on topic, has anyone heard from any of Mayer Brown's offices?

[Anonymous User]

no mayer brown (ny) for me, yet

[daleearnhardt123]

.1 is an absolutely enormous difference. 3.95 v. 3.85 is the difference between a strong SCOTUS contender and an average COA clerk. 3.8 v. 3.7 is the difference between having VLR or not. 3.5 v. 3.4 means there's 50 or so people between you. 3.35 v. 3.25 as a 1L means being in the middle of the class v. bottom 30%. .1 is a canyon in this game. You should've known that before you even enrolled.

[Anonymous User]

Heard today from a clerk friend that Butler Snow no-offered half of their class a year or two ago (after the statistic in question). They apparently also chose the half of their class from the local bottom-tier schools and booted the others (like Notre Dame law). Definitely affects my consideration going forward. I have been digging since the interview, so hopefully this will help someone else too.

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone been dinged by Troutman Sanders (Atlanta)?

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone been dinged by Troutman Sanders (Atlanta)?

Troutman is literally the only firm out of 20+ from my OGI that has not gotten back to me with a CB or ding.

[Anonymous User]

I overheard a guy on an airplane who said he got a Wilmerhale NY Post-CB ding.

[North]

I overheard a guy on an airplane who said he got a Wilmerhale NY Post-CB ding.

Now that's some solid information gathering.

ITT we hear all and see all

[Anonymous User]

I overheard a guy on an airplane who said he got a Wilmerhale NY Post-CB ding.

Now that's some solid information gathering.

ITT we hear all and see all

He said it took three days and it happened while he was still in the city, which I took to mean that they sent an email ding. IDK if this means they usually do email but i hear that's how they did CBs, so probably. I don't know what this means for you guys who are waiting on offers. I haven't heard of anyone who got an offer yet.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone still interviewing with W&C? I feel like I've been waiting for ages.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone received offers from Hunton & Williams- Richmond?

[Anonymous User]

Anyone received offers from Hunton & Williams- Richmond?

A friend has one and may have accepted.

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone heard from mcguirewoods (Richmond) post-cb?

[Anonymous User]

Anyone still interviewing with W&C? I feel like I've been waiting for ages.

Same, CB with them two weeks and one day ago. Heard from recruiter Monday, said they are still making a decision, even though originally they said it would be within two weeks. haven't heard of any W&C DC offers yet... or dings from a CB for that matter

[Anonymous User]

Anyone still interviewing with W&C? I feel like I've been waiting for ages.

Same, CB with them two weeks and one day ago. Heard from recruiter Monday, said they are still making a decision, even though originally they said it would be within two weeks. haven't heard of any W&C DC offers yet... or dings from a CB for that matter

Rumor mill had another UVA student interviewing with them on Monday. We'll probably have to wait a bit more.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone still interviewing with W&C? I feel like I've been waiting for ages.

Same, CB with them two weeks and one day ago. Heard from recruiter Monday, said they are still making a decision, even though originally they said it would be within two weeks. haven't heard of any W&C DC offers yet... or dings from a CB for that matter

Rumor mill had another UVA student interviewing with them on Monday. We'll probably have to wait a bit more.

is this white and case or williams connolly? also has anyone heard from baker mckenzie or mayer brown?