Milbank/Davis Polk/Cravath Scale: NYC to 215-415k Forum

[Anonymous User]

Have any K&E NSPs actually received updated compensation memos? They announced a "match" Tuesday afternoon but I still haven't gotten my memo and I've talked to a few friends who also haven't received anything. Sort of cutting it close if the idea is the new raise will be reflected in the draw going out in 11 days.

[Anonymous User]

Have any K&E NSPs actually received updated compensation memos? They announced a "match" Tuesday afternoon but I still haven't gotten my memo and I've talked to a few friends who also haven't received anything.

There is a kirkland megathread. Please pose this question there.

[Anonymous User]

Have any K&E NSPs actually received updated compensation memos? They announced a "match" Tuesday afternoon but I still haven't gotten my memo and I've talked to a few friends who also haven't received anything.

There is a kirkland megathread. Please pose this question there.

I feel like there's more (normal) activity here; the KE megathread (predictably) devolved into an insane debate. One of the reasons megathreads aren't great.

[Anonymous User]

White & Case continuing to cheap out is very par for the course.

Given their awkward position in the market, if they don't pay market comp, their associates will keep moving to dpw, stb, skadden, etc.

Just curious, why is their position awkward?

Maybe because they are situated somewhere between the DPW/CSM types and the Fried Frank/Schulte Roth types? Not sure what that has to do with anything tho.

OP might be referring to W&C's high Vault ranking that may not be backed up by PPP. Not sure if that's true, just speculating.

[Anonymous User]

White & Case continuing to cheap out is very par for the course.

Given their awkward position in the market, if they don't pay market comp, their associates will keep moving to dpw, stb, skadden, etc.

Just curious, why is their position awkward?

Maybe because they are situated somewhere between the DPW/CSM types and the Fried Frank/Schulte Roth types? Not sure what that has to do with anything tho.

OP might be referring to W&C's high Vault ranking that may not be backed up by PPP. Not sure if that's true, just speculating.

did u know they are an International Law Firm

[Anonymous User]

Have any K&E NSPs actually received updated compensation memos? They announced a "match" Tuesday afternoon but I still haven't gotten my memo and I've talked to a few friends who also haven't received anything.

There is a kirkland megathread. Please pose this question there.

I feel like there's more (normal) activity here; the KE megathread (predictably) devolved into an insane debate. One of the reasons megathreads aren't great.

TL;DR from that thread is K&E rocks cuz it's above market but then it's not and that's fine so stop penny pinching you selfish NSP. You know, standard K&E shit.

[Anonymous User]

Have any K&E NSPs actually received updated compensation memos? They announced a "match" Tuesday afternoon but I still haven't gotten my memo and I've talked to a few friends who also haven't received anything.

There is a kirkland megathread. Please pose this question there.

I feel like there's more (normal) activity here; the KE megathread (predictably) devolved into an insane debate. One of the reasons megathreads aren't great.

TL;DR from that thread is K&E rocks cuz it's above market but then it's not and that's fine so stop penny pinching you selfish NSP. You know, standard K&E shit.

That’s one psycho getting called out by multiple K&E associates.

[Anonymous User]

White & Case continuing to cheap out is very par for the course.

Given their awkward position in the market, if they don't pay market comp, their associates will keep moving to dpw, stb, skadden, etc.

Just curious, why is their position awkward?

Maybe because they are situated somewhere between the DPW/CSM types and the Fried Frank/Schulte Roth types? Not sure what that has to do with anything tho.

OP might be referring to W&C's high Vault ranking that may not be backed up by PPP. Not sure if that's true, just speculating.

did u know they are an International Law Firm

I thought they matched the latest re-aise and backdated it to January 1st, or did Abovethelaw flub that info?

[Anonymous User]

What are the odds any of this movement has a real effect on markets like BOS, STL, MIN, KC, ATL, etc?

So apparently I messed up by grouping BOS, and maybe ATL, too, with the midwest cities. But still curious if anyone thinks non-market cities will move because of this.

[EliteFlyer]

White & Case continuing to cheap out is very par for the course.

Given their awkward position in the market, if they don't pay market comp, their associates will keep moving to dpw, stb, skadden, etc.

Just curious, why is their position awkward?

Maybe because they are situated somewhere between the DPW/CSM types and the Fried Frank/Schulte Roth types? Not sure what that has to do with anything tho.

OP might be referring to W&C's high Vault ranking that may not be backed up by PPP. Not sure if that's true, just speculating.

What did W&C do that was cheap? Not payout until March 28? End of year bonuses there are paid out in mid-February, so this gives them the best shot of avoiding having to true up all the folks that give notice/leave after bonus hits. Otherwise, haven't they matched the scale?

[Anonymous User]

Wait so…. Will competing law firms probably re-raise to the new Kaplan Hecker scale? Thoughts?

[Anonymous User]

Wait so…. Will competing law firms probably re-raise to the new Kaplan Hecker scale? Thoughts?

Above market firms will continue to pay above market until something changes, and then they won't. See, e.g., Dovel bumping to $225.

[Anonymous User]

White & Case continuing to cheap out is very par for the course.

Given their awkward position in the market, if they don't pay market comp, their associates will keep moving to dpw, stb, skadden, etc.

Just curious, why is their position awkward?

Maybe because they are situated somewhere between the DPW/CSM types and the Fried Frank/Schulte Roth types? Not sure what that has to do with anything tho.

OP might be referring to W&C's high Vault ranking that may not be backed up by PPP. Not sure if that's true, just speculating.

did u know they are an International Law Firm

I thought they matched the latest re-aise and backdated it to January 1st, or did Abovethelaw flub that info?

Just a lil teasing about their branding stuff

[Anonymous User]

This is going to sound ?insane? but at this point I'm good, i.e., I don't want a fourth round of re-raises. At some point we have to let the scale settle and things shake out for a little. If there's that much latent energy still in biglaw to fight attrition through increased pay, it'd be awesome to see special bonuses announced instead, e.g., over the summer. I'm probably in a minority on this though.

[Anonymous User]

What are the odds any of this movement has a real effect on markets like BOS, STL, MIN, KC, ATL, etc?

So apparently I messed up by grouping BOS, and maybe ATL, too, with the midwest cities. But still curious if anyone thinks non-market cities will move because of this.

Are there many market paying firms in the midwest (outside of Chicago) to begin with? There are a lot of non-market paying firms (Bryan Cave, Polsinelli, etc.), but I don't think there are many paying market. Unless there's pressure to raise, firms won't raise.

[Anonymous User]

Can't believe (or, perhaps more appropriately, I can) Gibson hasn't announced anything this week after Cravath given the partners are literally together for a conference...

[Anonymous User]

White & Case continuing to cheap out is very par for the course.

Given their awkward position in the market, if they don't pay market comp, their associates will keep moving to dpw, stb, skadden, etc.

Just curious, why is their position awkward?

Maybe because they are situated somewhere between the DPW/CSM types and the Fried Frank/Schulte Roth types? Not sure what that has to do with anything tho.

OP might be referring to W&C's high Vault ranking that may not be backed up by PPP. Not sure if that's true, just speculating.

What did W&C do that was cheap? Not payout until March 28? End of year bonuses there are paid out in mid-February, so this gives them the best shot of avoiding having to true up all the folks that give notice/leave after bonus hits. Otherwise, haven't they matched the scale?

They pay bonuses in February (late February in their foreign offices), when most other firms, including my previous firm, pay out in December. January is acceptable but February is too much.

Lol at their salary announcement today. They say it applies to "US associates" making it sound ambigous as to whether it applies associates in their foreign offices, when all other firms explicitly list out the foreign offices that they will apply the raise to or mention that the raise will apply to those currently on the US compensation scale. As someone currently in one of their foreign offices getting paid on the US scale, I didn't receive that email and have no idea whether that raise will apply to me.

[Anonymous User]

Given their awkward position in the market, if they don't pay market comp, their associates will keep moving to dpw, stb, skadden, etc.

Just curious, why is their position awkward?

Maybe because they are situated somewhere between the DPW/CSM types and the Fried Frank/Schulte Roth types? Not sure what that has to do with anything tho.

OP might be referring to W&C's high Vault ranking that may not be backed up by PPP. Not sure if that's true, just speculating.

did u know they are an International Law Firm

I thought they matched the latest re-aise and backdated it to January 1st, or did Abovethelaw flub that info?

Just a lil teasing about their branding stuff

We all know they are situated in between the STB/DPW/CSM/etc band and the Fried Frank/Dechert/etc band in terms of their corporate/M&A work. In fact, W&C is doing well financially. They have been getting closer to the former grouping in terms of deals and financials, but act like the latter grouping (sometimes worse than that grouping) in terms of compensation & benefits.

[Anonymous User]

Wait so…. Will competing law firms probably re-raise to the new Kaplan Hecker scale? Thoughts?

Above market firms will continue to pay above market until something changes, and then they won't. See, e.g., Dovel bumping to $225.

So is there a chance that KE will bump to the Kaplan Hecker scale?

[Anonymous User]

Wait so…. Will competing law firms probably re-raise to the new Kaplan Hecker scale? Thoughts?

Above market firms will continue to pay above market until something changes, and then they won't. See, e.g., Dovel bumping to $225.

So is there a chance that KE will bump to the Kaplan Hecker scale?

Nevermind I just realized that is a boutique firm

[Anonymous User]

White & Case continuing to cheap out is very par for the course.

Given their awkward position in the market, if they don't pay market comp, their associates will keep moving to dpw, stb, skadden, etc.

Just curious, why is their position awkward?

Maybe because they are situated somewhere between the DPW/CSM types and the Fried Frank/Schulte Roth types? Not sure what that has to do with anything tho.

OP might be referring to W&C's high Vault ranking that may not be backed up by PPP. Not sure if that's true, just speculating.

What did W&C do that was cheap? Not payout until March 28? End of year bonuses there are paid out in mid-February, so this gives them the best shot of avoiding having to true up all the folks that give notice/leave after bonus hits. Otherwise, haven't they matched the scale?

They pay bonuses in February (late February in their foreign offices), when most other firms, including my previous firm, pay out in December. January is acceptable but February is too much.

Lol at their salary announcement today. They say it applies to "US associates" making it sound ambigous as to whether it applies associates in their foreign offices, when all other firms explicitly list out the foreign offices that they will apply the raise to or mention that the raise will apply to those currently on the US compensation scale. As someone currently in one of their foreign offices getting paid on the US scale, I didn't receive that email and have no idea whether that raise will apply to me.

Doesn't being called a "US Associate" depend on your jurisdiction of qualification, NOT geographic location? Pretty sure the raise applies to you also...

[Anonymous User]

Given their awkward position in the market, if they don't pay market comp, their associates will keep moving to dpw, stb, skadden, etc.

Just curious, why is their position awkward?

Maybe because they are situated somewhere between the DPW/CSM types and the Fried Frank/Schulte Roth types? Not sure what that has to do with anything tho.

OP might be referring to W&C's high Vault ranking that may not be backed up by PPP. Not sure if that's true, just speculating.

did u know they are an International Law Firm

I thought they matched the latest re-aise and backdated it to January 1st, or did Abovethelaw flub that info?

Just a lil teasing about their branding stuff

Both Cleary and Milbank would actually be better if you were interested in "iNTerNAtioNAl wOrK" though, right? What is the appeal of W&C?

[Anonymous User]

Just curious, why is their position awkward?

Maybe because they are situated somewhere between the DPW/CSM types and the Fried Frank/Schulte Roth types? Not sure what that has to do with anything tho.

OP might be referring to W&C's high Vault ranking that may not be backed up by PPP. Not sure if that's true, just speculating.

did u know they are an International Law Firm

I thought they matched the latest re-aise and backdated it to January 1st, or did Abovethelaw flub that info?

Just a lil teasing about their branding stuff

Both Cleary and Milbank would actually be better if you were interested in "iNTerNAtioNAl wOrK" though, right? What is the appeal of W&C?

In terms of deals, W&C is clearly better than Milbank for cross-border M&A. They just do more and better deals. Milbank is well know for project finance.

[Anonymous User]

Given their awkward position in the market, if they don't pay market comp, their associates will keep moving to dpw, stb, skadden, etc.

Just curious, why is their position awkward?

Maybe because they are situated somewhere between the DPW/CSM types and the Fried Frank/Schulte Roth types? Not sure what that has to do with anything tho.

OP might be referring to W&C's high Vault ranking that may not be backed up by PPP. Not sure if that's true, just speculating.

What did W&C do that was cheap? Not payout until March 28? End of year bonuses there are paid out in mid-February, so this gives them the best shot of avoiding having to true up all the folks that give notice/leave after bonus hits. Otherwise, haven't they matched the scale?

They pay bonuses in February (late February in their foreign offices), when most other firms, including my previous firm, pay out in December. January is acceptable but February is too much.

Lol at their salary announcement today. They say it applies to "US associates" making it sound ambigous as to whether it applies associates in their foreign offices, when all other firms explicitly list out the foreign offices that they will apply the raise to or mention that the raise will apply to those currently on the US compensation scale. As someone currently in one of their foreign offices getting paid on the US scale, I didn't receive that email and have no idea whether that raise will apply to me.

Doesn't being called a "US Associate" depend on your jurisdiction of qualification, NOT geographic location? Pretty sure the raise applies to you also...

Not really. At most other internationally oriented US firms (e.g., Cleary, Shearman, etc), that's how they use that term. But at W&C where US qualified associates in their Singapore and Tokyo offices haven't been on the US scale, that's not the case. All associates in their HK and Seoul offices, however, are on the US scale regardless of their jurisdiction of qualification. So at W&C, they could mean geographic location when they say "US Associates." It's ambiguous and quite stupid really. They say they are changing this bizarre system but we will see.

[Anonymous User]

Aren't most, if not all, biglaw firms international law firms? I'm not understanding the distinction here...or is that the joke people are making?