NY GOES TO 180k! IT HAPPENED!!!! (CovingTTTon does a 180! Holder wept.) Forum

[El Pollito]

why should texas match? their economy is donezo and no state income tax.

[wiz]

Hey fuck you buddy.

I thought we were all on the same team here.

[PMan99]

why should texas match? their economy is donezo and no state income tax.

Yeah I imagine Texas will be a laggard in terms of going to 180, just like it was in terms of coming to 160. The real question marks are the LA/DC/SF/Boston offices (and maybe Chicago) that have usually followed NY more closely than the Philly/Miami/Etc. types but aren't as profitable as NY.

[Johann]

why should texas match? their economy is donezo and no state income tax.

they probably shouldnt. but maybe STB and Latham want to keep consistent pay across offices. wouldnt be the first time a NYC associate subsidized another associate at one of these firms.

the quickest and most matchers will come within NYC and SV.despite V30 and below, firms like willkie farr, cooley, schulte roth, weil, goodwin proctor, fried frank, milbank, proskauer, fenwick etc are all no brainers to match.

[wiz]

Houston/Dallas/Austin followed to 160k last time, although there were a lot of firms doing a compressed Texas scale following the 1st year before V&E/BB ended up going full NY to match Latham Houston and Gibson Dallas. This time around, Latham, Kirkland, STB, and GDC all have pretty substantial presences in TX (in addition to Sidley but they're cheap), and I'm not sure if they would bifurcate salary scales by NY/CA vs. TX offices. Kirkland, in particular, has been poaching like crazy, but idk if (or how long it would take for) the big TX firms to follow them if they moved to 180k.

Houston is also oil and gas fucked atm, which makes things more complicated.

[PennBull]

Really need a NY firm to announce that its matching for its other major city offices (DC, SF, LA) and secondary markets bumping to next step (ie 130k --> 160k) and a confirmation of proportional SA pay

That would be cool. Great idea

Who gives a fuck about summer associate pay?

[abitaman6363]

Texas will come around. Took them only 6 months to match in 2007 and that was largely b/c ST announced in January. With OCI coming up and increased competition with national firms in town (e.g. Latham, Kirkland etc.) the Texas firms will match. Plus they're all hedged with bankruptcy and M&A deals have been heavy. They're not in the dire straights their small/mid-size oil clients are.

[Anonymous User]

Thoughts on Jones Day? (I'm anon cuz I work there obvi)

My guess is no, given that 1. implementing uniform raises would mess up their blackbox 2. if you look at the schools they recruit from, they aren't really that status driven and 3. their PPP is a measly 900k

[Anonymous User]

Houston/Dallas/Austin followed to 160k last time, although there were a lot of firms doing a compressed Texas scale following the 1st year before V&E/BB ended up going full NY to match Latham Houston and Gibson Dallas. This time around, Latham, Kirkland, STB, and GDC all have pretty substantial presences in TX (in addition to Sidley but they're cheap), and I'm not sure if they would bifurcate salary scales by NY/CA vs. TX offices. Kirkland, in particular, has been poaching like crazy, but idk if (or how long it would take for) the big TX firms to follow them if they moved to 180k.

Houston is also oil and gas fucked atm, which makes things more complicated.

.

[Anonymous User]

Thoughts on Jones Day? (I'm anon cuz I work there obvi)

My guess is no, given that 1. implementing uniform raises would mess up their blackbox 2. if you look at the schools they recruit from, they aren't really that status driven and 3. their PPP is a measly 900k

PPP doesn't drive them so much and they are lightly levered compares to others so not as big of an issue. I would guess they will only increase the start salary in their current 160 mkts to the new Cravath scale. After year 1, their salary in most places is under market (salary plus bonus of peers) so I wouldn't expect a 4th year in JD NY to be expecting a black box salary bump from say on July 1 from what normally would be 220k to 250k (all in) instead, based solely on this news.

[Actus Reus]

Really need a NY firm to announce that its matching for its other major city offices (DC, SF, LA) and secondary markets bumping to next step (ie 130k --> 160k) and a confirmation of proportional SA pay

That would be cool. Great idea

Who gives a fuck about summer associate pay?

This dude changed my quote. I only care about other major cities. Not summers. Summers just cost money

[Anonymous User]

said this in july of last year. now the fun part begins. obviously all major NY and SV players match (PPP>2M). obviously kirkland chicago matches. the tricky spots come in with Texas and Chicago in the 1.5M PPP arena. we will see.

I've seen multiple people say Kirkland Chicago will match without mentioning Kirkland DC. Is this just because people assume Kirkland DC will match? With how Kirkland loves to pitch itself as above-market comp., it's hard for me to imagine it not matching in DC. People would be pissed, right? Or am I being too optimistic?

[Byakuya769]

said this in july of last year. now the fun part begins. obviously all major NY and SV players match (PPP>2M). obviously kirkland chicago matches. the tricky spots come in with Texas and Chicago in the 1.5M PPP arena. we will see.

I've seen multiple people say Kirkland Chicago will match without mentioning Kirkland DC. Is this just because people assume Kirkland DC will match? With how Kirkland loves to pitch itself as above-market comp., it's hard for me to imagine it not matching in DC. People would be pissed, right? Or am I being too optimistic?

They'll match without question in DC. And I think the anon was just speaking to where the firms were founded.

[Anonymous User]

What're we thinking generally for DC? Cost of living here really isn't that far from NYC, and there are a lot of profitable groups based here (mostly based on regulatory and lit work). I'm seeing the major guys move to match before OCI, but happy to hear thoughts.

[Anonymous User]

Thoughts on Jones Day? (I'm anon cuz I work there obvi)

My guess is no, given that 1. implementing uniform raises would mess up their blackbox 2. if you look at the schools they recruit from, they aren't really that status driven and 3. their PPP is a measly 900k

PPP doesn't drive them so much and they are lightly levered compares to others so not as big of an issue. I would guess they will only increase the start salary in their current 160 mkts to the new Cravath scale. After year 1, their salary in most places is under market (salary plus bonus of peers) so I wouldn't expect a 4th year in JD NY to be expecting a black box salary bump from say on July 1 from what normally would be 220k to 250k (all in) instead, based solely on this news.

Incoming JD person.

My thoughts are that they definitely will in NY, interested to see what they do elsewhere. I would think they would just go ahead and match across major offices because they can just fuck you with lower "bonuses" anyway because of blackbox. They already pay under market, at least for mid levels and up, they just don't advertise it. Idk why they would change now.

[Johann]

Thoughts on Jones Day? (I'm anon cuz I work there obvi)

My guess is no, given that 1. implementing uniform raises would mess up their blackbox 2. if you look at the schools they recruit from, they aren't really that status driven and 3. their PPP is a measly 900k

Depends on city. My guess is even firms that don't match will at least increase comp in major cities and they'll probably come close to matching but not quite get there. This is good for every lawyer. Italy take a little while for the ripple effects to extend out, but every lawyer should benefit from this eventually.

[DELG]

If Jones Day doesn't pay midlevels market, how do they have any?

[dixiecupdrinking]

What're we thinking generally for DC? Cost of living here really isn't that far from NYC, and there are a lot of profitable groups based here (mostly based on regulatory and lit work). I'm seeing the major guys move to match before OCI, but happy to hear thoughts.

I bet DC mostly matches, mainly because it's hard not to when you have NY offices that will presumably match. You can't have your third years in DC making the same as some guy who just graduated in NY, it's terrible for morale and bad for recruiting. But maybe expect more bonus and/or salary compression shenanigans. DC work isn't as lucrative as major corporate deals and the top DC firms are substantially less profitable than the top NY firms.

[sublime]

..

[Anonymous User]

If Jones Day doesn't pay midlevels market, how do they have any?

Different anon. My impression as an SA was that they have some midlevels working 2400+ for above market and some working <2000 for below market.

[DELG]

If Jones Day doesn't pay midlevels market, how do they have any?

Different anon. My impression as an SA was that they have some midlevels working 2400+ for above market and some working <2000 for below market.

So if last year as second year I billed 1900 I will make less than market this year as a more desirable 3rd year billing 2300? Yikes

[smaug]

I think some of the "other markets will match" thinking is misguided. It's probably right but you've seen people on TLS say "why would anyone choose NYC" forever. Now that there's potentially a reason for that to happen folks (some of the same people, even) say "of course every market will match."

Who knows. We have one real, confirmed match so far, and it's from an above-market boutique. Kinda early to speculate on everyone matching outside of NY. CA seems more obvious to me than DC or Chicago re: matching.

[sublime]

..

[smaug]

A friend who SA'd at a non major city Latham office said last summer that they made a really big deal about how all lawyers get the same comp firm wide because they are a part of Latham, not just that individual office. It's Latham, so they may walk it back, but they had to have some idea this may happen.

Latham and Skadden will probably match firm wide because the have to. Kirkland will because they have too much pride.

I don't know if a few firms doing that will be enough to push everyone else higher though. Kirkland, Skadden, and Latham have the advantage of being Kirkland, Skadden, and Latham.

I have the same thoughts re Texas.

[sublime]

..