Milbank/Davis Polk/Cravath Scale: NYC to 215-415k Forum

[Anonymous User]

Why are some firms still not announcing anything? S&C? W&C? MoFo? Shearman?

Do they still think the salary war hasn't ended and there could be further raises? The longer they wait, the worse they look.

S&C is a joke. They didn't pay summers in 2020. Program was cancelled and they got paid $19K.

If they don't match by the end of this week, they are struggling. They must know that the longer they drag on, the stronger the impression they give off to others that they aren't doing well.

Some firms boast their strong performance in deal rankings. But who cares about how they do in the league tables if their associates aren't compensated well and their morale at its nadir. I honestly don't give a fuck how my firm does unless they pay me market salary

Is S&C really "not doing well"? Aren't they top-10 in PPP?

S&C is not struggling. They probably just don't feel the need to pile on immediately. Why? Who knows. Might be snobbiness and being "above the fray." They're kind of stuffy and old-school and bureaucratic, but lol at the idea that S&C is "struggling" just because they're a bit late to the game. PPP were $5.2 million in 2020 (6th highest) and apparently grew by double digits in 2021 (so at least $5.7 million). https://www.wsj.com/articles/law-firm-s ... 1641214872

[Anonymous User]

Foley Hoag full match of Cravath, retroactive to Jan. 1. Boston is moving.

Ropes already announced yesterday.

Kind of shocked to see Foley Hoag with a full match, though. This means that Mintz will probably need to do the full match.

[Anonymous User]

Foley Hoag full match of Cravath, retroactive to Jan. 1. Boston is moving.

Ropes already announced yesterday.

Kind of shocked to see Foley Hoag with a full match, though. This means that Mintz will probably need to do the full match.

Foaly Hoag >>>>>> Arnold & POORTTTer

[Anonymous User]

Foley Hoag full match of Cravath, retroactive to Jan. 1. Boston is moving.

Ropes already announced yesterday.

Kind of shocked to see Foley Hoag with a full match, though. This means that Mintz will probably need to do the full match.

Foaly Hoag >>>>>> Arnold & POORTTTer

Tough but fair

[Anonymous User]

S&C waived last year's summer advance, effectively giving out 29k for doing no work to 2020 summer associates. Though I was pretty upset at S&C at first, I can't complain about this outcome. S&C has not matched anybody to this date, which is super weird, but to say the firm is struggling is a bit of a stretch.

[Anonymous User]

Confirmed DPW just matched CSM's new scale.

Guess this means we now have the Cravath scale and the Arnold & POORter scale.

What is up with the text alignment in the bottom row of A&P’s comp memo table? Truly a TTT move.

[Anonymous User]

I think we would all agree that S&C is struggling to open its pocketbook

[Anonymous User]

Edit: Matches ranked by firms' vault ranks.

Cravath (v1) 2/28 -- Current Market Leader
Skadden (v3) 2/23, 3/2
Latham (v5) 3/1
Kirkland (v6) 2/23, 3/1
Davis Polk (v7) 2/22, 3/3 -- First Raiser
Simpson Thacher (v8) 2/23, 3/2
Paul, Weiss (v9) 2/22, 2/28
Gibson Dunn (v10) 2/27
Sidley (v11) 2/24, 3/2
Weil (v12) 2/25
Quinn (v13) 2/28
Cleary (v14) 2/23, 3/2
Debevoise (v17) 2/23, 3/1
Ropes (v18) 2/23, 3/2
WilmerHale (v19) 1/24
Paul Hastings (v20) 2/28, 3/3
Milbank (v23) 1/20 -- First Mover
Cooley (v24) 2/7
O’Melveny (v26) 2/23
Proskauer (v28) 2/23
Goodwin (v29) 1/21
Akin Gump (v30) 2/28
Arnold & Porter (v31) 3/2
DLA Piper (v34) 1/25
Morgan Lewis (v35) 2/4
Willkie Farr (v36) 2/23
Baker McKenzie (v37) 1/24
Wilson Sonsini (v38) 2/18 -- retroactive to 2/1
Winston & Strawn (v41) 1/26 -- retroactive to 2/1
Boies (v43) 1/24
Clifford Chance (v44) 2/25
Fried Frank (v46) 1/21, 2/25
Allen & Overy (v49) 2/28
Dechert (v51) 2/23
Linklaters (v52) 2/24
McDermott (v54) 1/20, 2/22, 3/1
Cadwalader (v56) 1/20, 2/24
Jenner & Block (v59) 2/28
Vinson & Elkins (v62) 2/24, 3/3
Freshfields (v63) 2/24
Norton Rose Fulbright (v64) 2/4, 2/28
Cahill (v65) 2/14
Fenwick (v70) 2/18
Irell (v73) 1/21
Steptoe (v75) 1/21
Schulte Roth & Zabel (v79) 2/24
Gunderson (v88) 2/16
Foley Hoag (v96) 3/3

Hueston Hennigan (NR) 1/20, 2/23, 3/1
McKool Smith (NR) 1/21
Dovel & Luner (NR) 1/27 -- 225k
Axinn Veltrop (NR) 2/1
Groom (NR) 2/9
Choate, Hall & Stewart (NR) 2/10
Brewer (NR) 2/15 -- 235k
Lynn Pinker (NR) 2/16
Desmarais (NR) 2/23 -- plus spring bonus (7.5-20k)
Selendy Gay (NR) 2/24

Source: https://abovethelaw.com/2022/01/biglaw- ... cker-2022/

Dude - Arnold & POORter didn't match. Stop pretending like those cheap TTT posers are members of this elite group of law firm$.

[Anonymous User]

Yeah OP you should list which scale each firm is at -- actually even list the ones that haven't matches yet, the cheapskates.

Something like: CSM scale / DPW / Milbank / old market / below market AKA Jones Day

[Anonymous User]

Edit: Matches ranked by firms' vault ranks.

Cravath (v1) 2/28 -- Current Market Leader
Skadden (v3) 2/23, 3/2
Latham (v5) 3/1
Kirkland (v6) 2/23, 3/1
Davis Polk (v7) 2/22, 3/3 -- First Raiser
Simpson Thacher (v8) 2/23, 3/2
Paul, Weiss (v9) 2/22, 2/28
Gibson Dunn (v10) 2/27
Sidley (v11) 2/24, 3/2
Weil (v12) 2/25
Quinn (v13) 2/28
Cleary (v14) 2/23, 3/2
Debevoise (v17) 2/23, 3/1
Ropes (v18) 2/23, 3/2
WilmerHale (v19) 1/24
Paul Hastings (v20) 2/28, 3/3
Milbank (v23) 1/20 -- First Mover
Cooley (v24) 2/7
O’Melveny (v26) 2/23
Proskauer (v28) 2/23
Goodwin (v29) 1/21
Akin Gump (v30) 2/28
Arnold & Porter (v31) 3/2
DLA Piper (v34) 1/25
Morgan Lewis (v35) 2/4
Willkie Farr (v36) 2/23
Baker McKenzie (v37) 1/24
Wilson Sonsini (v38) 2/18 -- retroactive to 2/1
Winston & Strawn (v41) 1/26 -- retroactive to 2/1
Boies (v43) 1/24
Clifford Chance (v44) 2/25
Fried Frank (v46) 1/21, 2/25
Allen & Overy (v49) 2/28
Dechert (v51) 2/23
Linklaters (v52) 2/24
McDermott (v54) 1/20, 2/22, 3/1
Cadwalader (v56) 1/20, 2/24
Jenner & Block (v59) 2/28
Vinson & Elkins (v62) 2/24, 3/3
Freshfields (v63) 2/24
Norton Rose Fulbright (v64) 2/4, 2/28
Cahill (v65) 2/14
Fenwick (v70) 2/18
Irell (v73) 1/21
Steptoe (v75) 1/21
Schulte Roth & Zabel (v79) 2/24
Gunderson (v88) 2/16
Foley Hoag (v96) 3/3

Hueston Hennigan (NR) 1/20, 2/23, 3/1
McKool Smith (NR) 1/21
Dovel & Luner (NR) 1/27 -- 225k
Axinn Veltrop (NR) 2/1
Groom (NR) 2/9
Choate, Hall & Stewart (NR) 2/10
Brewer (NR) 2/15 -- 235k
Lynn Pinker (NR) 2/16
Desmarais (NR) 2/23 -- plus spring bonus (7.5-20k)
Selendy Gay (NR) 2/24

Source: https://abovethelaw.com/2022/01/biglaw- ... cker-2022/

Dude - Arnold & POORter didn't match. Stop pretending like those cheap TTT posers are members of this elite group of law firm$.

Also worth noting in the master list that Kirkland’s match is retroactive only to Feb. 1 for 7th years and up (Jan. 1 for years 1-6).

[Anonymous User]

Should also be noted that Paul Hastings is only retroactive to January 31 for everyone (sorry, just a bitter PH associate over here)

[Anonymous User]

S&C will match lol, the partners legit just think we're lucky to work here so there's no rush.

[Anonymous User]

Edit: Matches ranked by firms' vault ranks.

Cravath (v1) 2/28 -- Current Market Leader
Skadden (v3) 2/23, 3/2
Latham (v5) 3/1
Kirkland (v6) 2/23, 3/1
Davis Polk (v7) 2/22, 3/3 -- First Raiser
Simpson Thacher (v8) 2/23, 3/2
Paul, Weiss (v9) 2/22, 2/28
Gibson Dunn (v10) 2/27
Sidley (v11) 2/24, 3/2
Weil (v12) 2/25
Quinn (v13) 2/28
Cleary (v14) 2/23, 3/2
Debevoise (v17) 2/23, 3/1
Ropes (v18) 2/23, 3/2
WilmerHale (v19) 1/24
Paul Hastings (v20) 2/28, 3/3
Milbank (v23) 1/20 -- First Mover
Cooley (v24) 2/7
O’Melveny (v26) 2/23
Proskauer (v28) 2/23
Goodwin (v29) 1/21
Akin Gump (v30) 2/28
Arnold & Porter (v31) 3/2
DLA Piper (v34) 1/25
Morgan Lewis (v35) 2/4
Willkie Farr (v36) 2/23
Baker McKenzie (v37) 1/24
Wilson Sonsini (v38) 2/18 -- retroactive to 2/1
Winston & Strawn (v41) 1/26 -- retroactive to 2/1
Boies (v43) 1/24
Clifford Chance (v44) 2/25
Fried Frank (v46) 1/21, 2/25
Allen & Overy (v49) 2/28
Dechert (v51) 2/23
Linklaters (v52) 2/24
McDermott (v54) 1/20, 2/22, 3/1
Cadwalader (v56) 1/20, 2/24
Jenner & Block (v59) 2/28
Vinson & Elkins (v62) 2/24, 3/3
Freshfields (v63) 2/24
Norton Rose Fulbright (v64) 2/4, 2/28
Cahill (v65) 2/14
Fenwick (v70) 2/18
Irell (v73) 1/21
Steptoe (v75) 1/21
Schulte Roth & Zabel (v79) 2/24
Gunderson (v88) 2/16
Foley Hoag (v96) 3/3

Hueston Hennigan (NR) 1/20, 2/23, 3/1
McKool Smith (NR) 1/21
Dovel & Luner (NR) 1/27 -- 225k
Axinn Veltrop (NR) 2/1
Groom (NR) 2/9
Choate, Hall & Stewart (NR) 2/10
Brewer (NR) 2/15 -- 235k
Lynn Pinker (NR) 2/16
Desmarais (NR) 2/23 -- plus spring bonus (7.5-20k)
Selendy Gay (NR) 2/24

Source: https://abovethelaw.com/2022/01/biglaw- ... cker-2022/

Dude - Arnold & POORter didn't match. Stop pretending like those cheap TTT posers are members of this elite group of law firm$.

Also worth noting in the master list that Kirkland’s match is retroactive only to Feb. 1 for 7th years and up (Jan. 1 for years 1-6).

The Feb. 1 date has always been when NSP compensation changes.

[Anonymous User]

Yeah OP you should list which scale each firm is at -- actually even list the ones that haven't matches yet, the cheapskates.

Something like: CSM scale / DPW / Milbank / old market / below market AKA Jones Day

No one has that kind of time, unless I can send my bill somewhere. Tracking was for fun, until Cravath matched. Now it's just a matter of time before everyone else matches.

[BrowsingTLS]

S&C will match lol, the partners legit just think we're lucky to work here so there's no rush.

They're not wrong.

And that's true of all of us in biglaw, paralegals, associates, and partners (Idk enough about non-legal roles, but probably same for them). I would probably use fortunate instead of lucky, though. Lucky suggests our efforts played no role whatsoever in our getting to biglaw. Fortunate recognizes how good we have it. Even a biglaw paralegal can make almost double what their counter-parts in the non-profit sector make.

[Anonymous User]

S&C will match lol, the partners legit just think we're lucky to work here so there's no rush.

They're not wrong.

And that's true of all of us in biglaw, paralegals, associates, and partners (Idk enough about non-legal roles, but probably same for them). I would probably use fortunate instead of lucky, though. Lucky suggests our efforts played no role whatsoever in our getting to biglaw. Fortunate recognizes how good we have it. Even a biglaw paralegal can make almost double what their counter-parts in the non-profit sector make.

Same logic applies to partners. They're lucky to be there. Share.

[Anonymous User]

S&C waived last year's summer advance, effectively giving out 29k for doing no work to 2020 summer associates. Though I was pretty upset at S&C at first, I can't complain about this outcome. S&C has not matched anybody to this date, which is super weird, but to say the firm is struggling is a bit of a stretch.

Ok - will give them more time. If those remaining firms don't match by the end of next week, they are struggling as I see no reason for them to not match. No rush? Not announcing anything at this point in the game only hurts their image in the eyes of associates and law students.

[Anonymous User]

S&C waived last year's summer advance, effectively giving out 29k for doing no work to 2020 summer associates. Though I was pretty upset at S&C at first, I can't complain about this outcome. S&C has not matched anybody to this date, which is super weird, but to say the firm is struggling is a bit of a stretch.

Ok - will give them more time. If those remaining firms don't match by the end of next week, they are struggling as I see no reason for them to not match. No rush? Not announcing anything at this point in the game only hurts their image in the eyes of associates and law students.

hmm….if this was a v50, yeah. But, it’s kind of obvious to everyone that S&C is going to match, so I am not sure if I agree with this.

[Anonymous User]

I think the issue here is everyone is now waiting for DPW or Milbank to match, or potentially re-raise. A&P move was stupid because DPW will eventually match or re-raise, so then they are just paying sub-par all around.

[Anonymous User]

S&C waived last year's summer advance, effectively giving out 29k for doing no work to 2020 summer associates. Though I was pretty upset at S&C at first, I can't complain about this outcome. S&C has not matched anybody to this date, which is super weird, but to say the firm is struggling is a bit of a stretch.

Ok - will give them more time. If those remaining firms don't match by the end of next week, they are struggling as I see no reason for them to not match. No rush? Not announcing anything at this point in the game only hurts their image in the eyes of associates and law students.

hmm….if this was a v50, yeah. But, it’s kind of obvious to everyone that S&C is going to match, so I am not sure if I agree with this.

Why the delay though? Everyone knows all of them eventually match. There's no benefit of matching so late.

The reference to vault rankings is so funny. I moved from a V50 to a V20 two years ago and I'm a senior associate. This V20 has been much more stingy, cheap in various ways.

[Anonymous User]

I think the issue here is everyone is now waiting for DPW or Milbank to match, or potentially re-raise. A&P move was stupid because DPW will eventually match or re-raise, so then they are just paying sub-par all around.

Dpw already matched Cravath. Unless Milbank re-raises, the salary war is over.

[2013]

Edit: Matches ranked by firms' vault ranks.

Cravath (v1) 2/28 -- Current Market Leader
Skadden (v3) 2/23, 3/2
Latham (v5) 3/1
Kirkland (v6) 2/23, 3/1
Davis Polk (v7) 2/22, 3/3 -- First Raiser
Simpson Thacher (v8) 2/23, 3/2
Paul, Weiss (v9) 2/22, 2/28
Gibson Dunn (v10) 2/27
Sidley (v11) 2/24, 3/2
Weil (v12) 2/25
Quinn (v13) 2/28
Cleary (v14) 2/23, 3/2
Debevoise (v17) 2/23, 3/1
Ropes (v18) 2/23, 3/2
WilmerHale (v19) 1/24
Paul Hastings (v20) 2/28, 3/3
Milbank (v23) 1/20 -- First Mover
Cooley (v24) 2/7
O’Melveny (v26) 2/23
Proskauer (v28) 2/23
Goodwin (v29) 1/21
Akin Gump (v30) 2/28
Arnold & Porter (v31) 3/2
DLA Piper (v34) 1/25
Morgan Lewis (v35) 2/4
Willkie Farr (v36) 2/23
Baker McKenzie (v37) 1/24
Wilson Sonsini (v38) 2/18 -- retroactive to 2/1
Winston & Strawn (v41) 1/26 -- retroactive to 2/1
Boies (v43) 1/24
Clifford Chance (v44) 2/25
Fried Frank (v46) 1/21, 2/25
Allen & Overy (v49) 2/28
Dechert (v51) 2/23
Linklaters (v52) 2/24
McDermott (v54) 1/20, 2/22, 3/1
Cadwalader (v56) 1/20, 2/24
Jenner & Block (v59) 2/28
Vinson & Elkins (v62) 2/24, 3/3
Freshfields (v63) 2/24
Norton Rose Fulbright (v64) 2/4, 2/28
Cahill (v65) 2/14
Fenwick (v70) 2/18
Irell (v73) 1/21
Steptoe (v75) 1/21
Schulte Roth & Zabel (v79) 2/24
Gunderson (v88) 2/16
Foley Hoag (v96) 3/3

Hueston Hennigan (NR) 1/20, 2/23, 3/1
McKool Smith (NR) 1/21
Dovel & Luner (NR) 1/27 -- 225k
Axinn Veltrop (NR) 2/1
Groom (NR) 2/9
Choate, Hall & Stewart (NR) 2/10
Brewer (NR) 2/15 -- 235k
Lynn Pinker (NR) 2/16
Desmarais (NR) 2/23 -- plus spring bonus (7.5-20k)
Selendy Gay (NR) 2/24

Source: https://abovethelaw.com/2022/01/biglaw- ... cker-2022/

Dude - Arnold & POORter didn't match. Stop pretending like those cheap TTT posers are members of this elite group of law firm$.

Also worth noting in the master list that Kirkland’s match is retroactive only to Feb. 1 for 7th years and up (Jan. 1 for years 1-6).

The Feb. 1 date has always been when NSP compensation changes.

People need to stop defending Kirkland on this point. We get it, NSP compensation changes happen February 1. However, that means that the first year NSP should get a 6th year’s salary proration from January 1 to January 31. That would be “market.”

[Anonymous User]

White & Case continuing to cheap out is very par for the course.

[Anonymous User]

White & Case continuing to cheap out is very par for the course.

Given their awkward position in the market, if they don't pay market comp, their associates will keep moving to dpw, stb, skadden, etc.

[Anonymous User]

Edit: Matches ranked by firms' vault ranks.

Cravath (v1) 2/28 -- Current Market Leader
Skadden (v3) 2/23, 3/2
Latham (v5) 3/1
Kirkland (v6) 2/23, 3/1
Davis Polk (v7) 2/22, 3/3 -- First Raiser
Simpson Thacher (v8) 2/23, 3/2
Paul, Weiss (v9) 2/22, 2/28
Gibson Dunn (v10) 2/27
Sidley (v11) 2/24, 3/2
Weil (v12) 2/25
Quinn (v13) 2/28
Cleary (v14) 2/23, 3/2
Debevoise (v17) 2/23, 3/1
Ropes (v18) 2/23, 3/2
WilmerHale (v19) 1/24
Paul Hastings (v20) 2/28, 3/3
Milbank (v23) 1/20 -- First Mover
Cooley (v24) 2/7
O’Melveny (v26) 2/23
Proskauer (v28) 2/23
Goodwin (v29) 1/21
Akin Gump (v30) 2/28
Arnold & Porter (v31) 3/2
DLA Piper (v34) 1/25
Morgan Lewis (v35) 2/4
Willkie Farr (v36) 2/23
Baker McKenzie (v37) 1/24
Wilson Sonsini (v38) 2/18 -- retroactive to 2/1
Winston & Strawn (v41) 1/26 -- retroactive to 2/1
Boies (v43) 1/24
Clifford Chance (v44) 2/25
Fried Frank (v46) 1/21, 2/25
Allen & Overy (v49) 2/28
Dechert (v51) 2/23
Linklaters (v52) 2/24
McDermott (v54) 1/20, 2/22, 3/1
Cadwalader (v56) 1/20, 2/24
Jenner & Block (v59) 2/28
Vinson & Elkins (v62) 2/24, 3/3
Freshfields (v63) 2/24
Norton Rose Fulbright (v64) 2/4, 2/28
Cahill (v65) 2/14
Fenwick (v70) 2/18
Irell (v73) 1/21
Steptoe (v75) 1/21
Schulte Roth & Zabel (v79) 2/24
Gunderson (v88) 2/16
Foley Hoag (v96) 3/3

Hueston Hennigan (NR) 1/20, 2/23, 3/1
McKool Smith (NR) 1/21
Dovel & Luner (NR) 1/27 -- 225k
Axinn Veltrop (NR) 2/1
Groom (NR) 2/9
Choate, Hall & Stewart (NR) 2/10
Brewer (NR) 2/15 -- 235k
Lynn Pinker (NR) 2/16
Desmarais (NR) 2/23 -- plus spring bonus (7.5-20k)
Selendy Gay (NR) 2/24

Source: https://abovethelaw.com/2022/01/biglaw- ... cker-2022/

Dude - Arnold & POORter didn't match. Stop pretending like those cheap TTT posers are members of this elite group of law firm$.

Also worth noting in the master list that Kirkland’s match is retroactive only to Feb. 1 for 7th years and up (Jan. 1 for years 1-6).

The Feb. 1 date has always been when NSP compensation changes.

People need to stop defending Kirkland on this point. We get it, NSP compensation changes happen February 1. However, that means that the first year NSP should get a 6th year’s salary proration from January 1 to January 31. That would be “market.”

I'm amazed at how many people fall for this logic. I've talked to people about WSGR and Winston & Strawn not matching all the way back to Jan. 1 who say it's consistent with their calendar year and when associates normally get pay changes as if that's some kind of defense and not just pointing out that it effectively means both firms are below market.