V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions... Forum

[itbdvorm]

How much does writing-on to Law Review help versus just grading on? And will being on Law Review provide a noticable boost? I'm at a T20 right around top 20%; need all the help I can get.

We see grades and "law review." It helps.

[itbdvorm]

Since people have asked - if you want to PM me questions about your specific situations, or have specific questions about firms, I'll do my best to answer. Some "conventional wisdom" out there continues to seem very wrong.

Edit: But please try not to ask relatively general questions that I've already discussed ad nauseum - thanks

[Anonymous User]

Had a callback interview last week with a biglaw firm. My original screener with them went really well, but during callback, most attorneys seemed super-busy and uninterested in talking to me. It was fight against the current on my part. Do you think that means auto-reject? Found someone else? Or just a busy day. I was really disappointed afterwards. It would have been one thing if I made it awkward by doing something stupid, but I would walk in a partner's office and it would feel/look like talking to me was the last thing s/he wanted to do.

Do you also have an advice about dealing in the future with such interviewing situations?

[Anonymous User]

Is it worth it to e mail the hiring attorney with a resume and transcript if you are a desirable candidate (e.g. top 10% at a T14)?

As a 3L who went through OCI last year, doing that netted me OCI interviews that I probably wouldn't have gotten otherwise, including a CB before OCI started.

edit: my grades were below target, but I had relevant work experience. I emailed practice group heads and got a lot of positive feedback, including 3 "guaranteed" interviews during OCI (one of which reneged)

[itbdvorm]

Had a callback interview last week with a biglaw firm. My original screener with them went really well, but during callback, most attorneys seemed super-busy and uninterested in talking to me. It was fight against the current on my part. Do you think that means auto-reject? Found someone else? Or just a busy day. I was really disappointed afterwards. It would have been one thing if I made it awkward by doing something stupid, but I would walk in a partner's office and it would feel/look like talking to me was the last thing s/he wanted to do.

Do you also have an advice about dealing in the future with such interviewing situations?

Well, my guess is that talking to you was the last thing s/he wanted to do.

If people are busy, recruiting's a chore. Might not mean anything - hard to say for sure.

[Anonymous User]

Hi, and thanks for answering questions. Would someone at a T6 school with a relatively low GPA (i.e. low end of the median band) but who wrote onto LR be forgiven for the GPA at your firm, or would he/she still have to be pretty close to the cutoff for the LR membership to factor in at all?

[itbdvorm]

Hi, and thanks for answering questions. Would someone at a T6 school with a relatively low GPA (i.e. low end of the median band) but who wrote onto LR be forgiven for the GPA at your firm, or would he/she still have to be pretty close to the cutoff for the LR membership to factor in at all?

Zero chance for us (sorry). But others could be interested.

[Anonymous User]

Not OCI related, but how would your firm view a lateral associate who has brought in about 500k in business to his/her current firm? Is that a potential hire automatically?

"Favorably."

But is it coming with them? And what rates are they charging? $500K in business at $50/hr isn't desirable.

Yeah, it would be coming with them.

500k at 400/500 or so an hour.

[itbdvorm]

Not OCI related, but how would your firm view a lateral associate who has brought in about 500k in business to his/her current firm? Is that a potential hire automatically?

"Favorably."

But is it coming with them? And what rates are they charging? $500K in business at $50/hr isn't desirable.

Yeah, it would be coming with them.

500k at 400/500 or so an hour.

Really depends on many factors.

[Anonymous User]

Not OCI related, but how would your firm view a lateral associate who has brought in about 500k in business to his/her current firm? Is that a potential hire automatically?

"Favorably."

But is it coming with them? And what rates are they charging? $500K in business at $50/hr isn't desirable.

Yeah, it would be coming with them.

500k at 400/500 or so an hour.

Really depends on many factors.

Always does. Thanks for your thoughts and for answering these questions!

[Anonymous User]

I really hating asking this, but how much might being the son of a significant client (key partner at a private equity fund) lead to you overlooking grades? At a T10, have significant finance work experience, interview well, but grades are probably lacking for where I have connections.

[itbdvorm]

I really hating asking this, but how much might being the son of a significant client (key partner at a private equity fund) lead to you overlooking grades? At a T10, have significant finance work experience, interview well, but grades are probably lacking for where I have connections.

It can help for sure. But places are more cautious about doing that then they used to. If your parent makes a call or two you'll be just fine. But be sure to "prove yourself" once you're there - very easy to get a reputation as "so and so's son" and be quickly put into a useless silo until you leave

[Anonymous User]

I really hating asking this, but how much might being the son of a significant client (key partner at a private equity fund) lead to you overlooking grades? At a T10, have significant finance work experience, interview well, but grades are probably lacking for where I have connections.

The father of a guy at my school (CCN) is on the board of a bulge bracket bank and got him a 1L gig at Wachtell. His grades are below median, so it happens.

[Anonymous User]

I'm a 1L SA at a v30ish doing IP litigation primarily, and while my reviews have been good and I'm generally liked I'm starting to think I'm not on track for an offer. The watercooler talk, lateral hiring and other sources have all been echoing that the IP group really only needs EE right now; I have a technical background but its not electrical or computer engineering. I can already sense that as much as they might like me as a person, the demands just aren't the same as they were when I interviewed after winter break & I don't have the credentials they want around right now. I'm actually fine leaving IP but I'm worried about this for other reasons.

I know that I'll be asked in my interviews about whether I have an offer at my current firm. Just saying "no" will make me seem like a failed SA, lazy, ect. I'm not. How would I communicate this rather specific issue without receiving the negative stigma or seeming like I'm making excuses for myself? My grades and WE are otherwise strong, and I could probably get a reference from people I worked with here even if I didn't get an offer in IP.

Thanks!

[Anonymous User]

Is there a response to the "Why law school" question that you've found to be particularly ridiculous and/or insincere? I imagine it might be a know it when you see it sort of thing, but just curious if anything stands out.

[itbdvorm]

I'm a 1L SA at a v30ish doing IP litigation primarily, and while my reviews have been good and I'm generally liked I'm starting to think I'm not on track for an offer. The watercooler talk, lateral hiring and other sources have all been echoing that the IP group really only needs EE right now; I have a technical background but its not electrical or computer engineering. I can already sense that as much as they might like me as a person, the demands just aren't the same as they were when I interviewed after winter break & I don't have the credentials they want around right now. I'm actually fine leaving IP but I'm worried about this for other reasons.

I know that I'll be asked in my interviews about whether I have an offer at my current firm. Just saying "no" will make me seem like a failed SA, lazy, ect. I'm not. How would I communicate this rather specific issue without receiving the negative stigma or seeming like I'm making excuses for myself? My grades and WE are otherwise strong, and I could probably get a reference from people I worked with here even if I didn't get an offer in IP.

Thanks!

Anyone you get along with well you could have an honest conversation with? Your best bet is having some of these folks put in good words for you with other places. Also 1L positions without offers don't have as much of a stigma as 2L positions. Still, would be surprising if someone wasn't given some sort of opportunity 2L year (return for 4 weeks, option to join different group, etc.)

[itbdvorm]

Is there a response to the "Why law school" question that you've found to be particularly ridiculous and/or insincere? I imagine it might be a know it when you see it sort of thing, but just curious if anything stands out.

"I like to argue"

[Anonymous User]

How much does Law Review matter for people chasing transactional work?

I'm top 15-20% at a CCN school. Only want NY big law. I think my GPA at least gave me at least a chance at most of the NY powerhouses, with Wachtell and S&C still out of reach. Will Law Review change my odds there? It definitely doesn't hurt, but does it help my odds if I know I don't want litigation?

[Anonymous User]

Are there any reasons for "why transactional" that are generally safe bets? I have a tiny bit of business background but nothing significant. Would saying things like "I want to collaborate to make a deal," "I want to immerse myself in a deal and learn everything about a company," and such things be good enough? I don't want to come off insincere since I really do think that I want to go the transactional route. Thanks.

[itbdvorm]

How much does Law Review matter for people chasing transactional work?

I'm top 15-20% at a CCN school. Only want NY big law. I think my GPA at least gave me at least a chance at most of the NY powerhouses, with Wachtell and S&C still out of reach. Will Law Review change my odds there? It definitely doesn't hurt, but does it help my odds if I know I don't want litigation?

helps

[itbdvorm]

Are there any reasons for "why transactional" that are generally safe bets? I have a tiny bit of business background but nothing significant. Would saying things like "I want to collaborate to make a deal," "I want to immerse myself in a deal and learn everything about a company," and such things be good enough? I don't want to come off insincere since I really do think that I want to go the transactional route. Thanks.

Sure. Talk about how deals/finance/etc are interesting. Cite deals the firm does, ask questions about background.

[Anonymous User]

Do your HR people or hiring people in general actually read cover letters?

[Danger Zone]

Do your HR people or hiring people in general actually read cover letters?

Only after the résumé warrants it

[Anonymous User]

First off, thanks for doing this. It's nice to hear something that isn't coming from an employment office or other slanted source.

Second, I was wondering about the prospects of a candidate that doesn't work as a summer associate after 2L. For reference, I'm at MVP, grades are about at the median, maybe a tick below or above. Nothing great as far as WE goes. I am working in a US Attorney's office this summer and really enjoy it. I plan to apply to some jobs at DOJ and another USAO for next summer in addition to doing OCI and mass mailing.

The NALP pages I have looked at, however, seem to suggest that it is rare for a firm to hire an entry-level candidate who hadn't been a summer associate. Does working as something other than a summer associate really hamstring a candidate's chances of getting a firm job after graduation? Moreover, how much of an uphill battle is it to get a job at a firm other than one at which you have been a summer associate?

[itbdvorm]

First off, thanks for doing this. It's nice to hear something that isn't coming from an employment office or other slanted source.

Second, I was wondering about the prospects of a candidate that doesn't work as a summer associate after 2L. For reference, I'm at MVP, grades are about at the median, maybe a tick below or above. Nothing great as far as WE goes. I am working in a US Attorney's office this summer and really enjoy it. I plan to apply to some jobs at DOJ and another USAO for next summer in addition to doing OCI and mass mailing.

The NALP pages I have looked at, however, seem to suggest that it is rare for a firm to hire an entry-level candidate who hadn't been a summer associate. Does working as something other than a summer associate really hamstring a candidate's chances of getting a firm job after graduation? Moreover, how much of an uphill battle is it to get a job at a firm other than one at which you have been a summer associate?

Not sure whether this is flame, but it's a HUGE uphill battle. 3L hiring is nearly non-existent these days and there's usually a compelling reason (for example, a candidate who summered at Cravath and received an offer needs to move to LA for personal reasons - that person has a good shot). There are rare exceptions (I guess I'd suggest that 3Ls looking for positions pitch their interest in bank finance - it's incredibly hot right now), but in general you will have a very tough shot.

You should generally assume that you spend your 2L summer doing what you want to do after graduation. There are exceptions (clerking, etc.) and I have no idea if doing 2L summer at a firm precludes trying to get hired at DOJ/USAO after graduation (no idea how that process works), if that's what you really want to do. But if you want to work at a firm immediately after graduation, work at a firm 2L year.