NY GOES TO 180k! IT HAPPENED!!!! (CovingTTTon does a 180! Holder wept.) Forum

[TLSModBot]

I don't think it's all that significant to look at 1 years growth or 1 years ppp growth. This is a raise almost 10 years in the making. They basically got 5-7 years of frozen wages for free. Now they'll have to pay for it all at once.

I'd look at how much PPP it would actually cost them.

This is a good point re: the PPP - I'll run these numbers next. I don't think partners see it as "10 years in the making" / overdue raises but I think the Altman Weil survey might prove me wrong on that front (I'll have to check).

Here's the PPP breakdown

Drops PPP by more than 100K+ (Doomsday scenario) - 9 firms
Drops PPP by 60K-100K (Time to start looking to lateral!) - 36 firms
Drops PPP by 40K-60K - (ugh my vacation home veranda will NEVER get built at this rate) - 55 firms
25-40K - (no one can tell my maserati only has imitation leather seats, right?) - 56 firms
<25K - (OK associates that's like the loose change in my couch) - 36 firms

[BizBro]

I don't think it's all that significant to look at 1 years growth or 1 years ppp growth. This is a raise almost 10 years in the making. They basically got 5-7 years of frozen wages for free. Now they'll have to pay for it all at once.

I'd look at how much PPP it would actually cost them.

This is a good point re: the PPP - I'll run these numbers next. I don't think partners see it as "10 years in the making" / overdue raises but I think the Altman Weil survey might prove me wrong on that front (I'll have to check).

Here's the PPP breakdown

Drops PPP by more than 100K+ (Doomsday scenario) - 9 firms
Drops PPP by 60K-100K (Time to start looking to lateral!) - 36 firms
Drops PPP by 40K-60K - (ugh my vacation home veranda will NEVER get built at this rate) - 55 firms
25-40K - (no one can tell my maserati only has imitation leather seats, right?) - 56 firms
<25K - (OK associates that's like the loose change in my couch) - 36 firms

What are the 36 firms?

[Mr. Peanutbutter]

COME ON CAPITOL GIVE US THE 36

[TLSModBot]

I don't think it's all that significant to look at 1 years growth or 1 years ppp growth. This is a raise almost 10 years in the making. They basically got 5-7 years of frozen wages for free. Now they'll have to pay for it all at once.

I'd look at how much PPP it would actually cost them.

This is a good point re: the PPP - I'll run these numbers next. I don't think partners see it as "10 years in the making" / overdue raises but I think the Altman Weil survey might prove me wrong on that front (I'll have to check).

Here's the PPP breakdown

Drops PPP by more than 100K+ (Doomsday scenario) - 9 firms
Drops PPP by 60K-100K (Time to start looking to lateral!) - 36 firms
Drops PPP by 40K-60K - (ugh my vacation home veranda will NEVER get built at this rate) - 55 firms
25-40K - (no one can tell my maserati only has imitation leather seats, right?) - 56 firms
<25K - (OK associates that's like the loose change in my couch) - 36 firms

What are the 36 firms?

Literally all of them are lower-ranked Amlaw 200 firms that probably aren't paying NY market rates uniformly anyway and wouldn't have to bother to match.

The top 30 or so largest firms are, with a few exceptions, in the first two categories.

[TLSModBot]

But here you go anyway:

adams and reese llp
Allen Matkins Leck Gamble Mallory & Natsis LLP
armstrong teasdale llp
ballard spahr llp
Barnes & Thornburg LLP
bradley arant boult cummings llp
Burr & Forman LLP
chapman and cutler llp
davis wright tremaine llp
dickinson wright pllc
Fisher & Phillips LLP
frost brown todd llc
Goulston & Storrs, A Professional Corporation
GrayRobinson, P.A.
Greenspoon Marder
Hinckley, Allen & Snyder LLP
Holland & Hart LLP
Honigman
ice miller llp
Jackson Walker L.L.P.
Knobbe, Martens, Olson & Bear, LLP
kutak rock llp
Lane Powell
LeClairRyan
Lewis Roca Rothgerber
Michael Best & Friedrich LLP
Miller, Canfield, Paddock and Stone
Quarles & Brady LLP
Shumaker, Loop & Kendrick, LLP
Shutts & Bowen LLP
Stinson Leonard Street LLP
stoel rives llp
Strasburger & Price, LLP
thompson coburn llp
Vedder Price, P.C.
Womble Carlyle Sandridge & Rice

[TLSModBot]

"Goulston & Storrs to maybe $100K idk I've never heard of them" just isn't as catchy

[Mr. Peanutbutter]

Who are the doomsday firms

[terpie]

I don't think it's all that significant to look at 1 years growth or 1 years ppp growth. This is a raise almost 10 years in the making. They basically got 5-7 years of frozen wages for free. Now they'll have to pay for it all at once.

I'd look at how much PPP it would actually cost them.

This is a good point re: the PPP - I'll run these numbers next. I don't think partners see it as "10 years in the making" / overdue raises but I think the Altman Weil survey might prove me wrong on that front (I'll have to check).

Here's the PPP breakdown

Drops PPP by more than 100K+ (Doomsday scenario) - 9 firms
Drops PPP by 60K-100K (Time to start looking to lateral!) - 36 firms
Drops PPP by 40K-60K - (ugh my vacation home veranda will NEVER get built at this rate) - 55 firms
25-40K - (no one can tell my maserati only has imitation leather seats, right?) - 56 firms
<25K - (OK associates that's like the loose change in my couch) - 36 firms

What are the 36 firms?

Literally all of them are lower-ranked Amlaw 200 firms that probably aren't paying NY market rates uniformly anyway and wouldn't have to bother to match.

The top 30 or so largest firms are, with a few exceptions, in the first two categories.

I don't understand. This salary increase is a pure hit to PPP. Unless a firm has a 1:1 partner to associate ratio, there's no way any firm has a <25k hit to PPP.

[jbagelboy]

can we add the 9 doomsday firms?

also awesome, thank you!

[Rlabo]

Queue the mergers

[TLSModBot]

I don't think it's all that significant to look at 1 years growth or 1 years ppp growth. This is a raise almost 10 years in the making. They basically got 5-7 years of frozen wages for free. Now they'll have to pay for it all at once.

I'd look at how much PPP it would actually cost them.

This is a good point re: the PPP - I'll run these numbers next. I don't think partners see it as "10 years in the making" / overdue raises but I think the Altman Weil survey might prove me wrong on that front (I'll have to check).

Here's the PPP breakdown

Drops PPP by more than 100K+ (Doomsday scenario) - 9 firms
Drops PPP by 60K-100K (Time to start looking to lateral!) - 36 firms
Drops PPP by 40K-60K - (ugh my vacation home veranda will NEVER get built at this rate) - 55 firms
25-40K - (no one can tell my maserati only has imitation leather seats, right?) - 56 firms
<25K - (OK associates that's like the loose change in my couch) - 36 firms

What are the 36 firms?

Literally all of them are lower-ranked Amlaw 200 firms that probably aren't paying NY market rates uniformly anyway and wouldn't have to bother to match.

The top 30 or so largest firms are, with a few exceptions, in the first two categories.

I don't understand. This salary increase is a pure hit to PPP. Unless a firm has a 1:1 partner to associate ratio, there's no way any firm has a <25k hit to PPP.

Yes all these firms have a relatively small number of attorneys and leverage at or under 1.6 (many hovering close to 1 though just like you said above).

[WeeBey]

Aren't firms just gonna increase their billing rate? For the sake of round numbers, $10 more per hour x 2k hours a year makes up for the 20k bonus.

But also, what a time to be a law student. Apply while app numbers are at their lowest, do OCI in a booming economy. Graduate with a pay raise.

[JenDarby]

Literally all of them are lower-ranked Amlaw 200 firms that probably aren't paying NY market rates uniformly anyway and wouldn't have to bother to match.

The top 30 or so largest firms are, with a few exceptions, in the first two categories.

I don't understand. This salary increase is a pure hit to PPP. Unless a firm has a 1:1 partner to associate ratio, there's no way any firm has a <25k hit to PPP.

I just finished a drawn out negotiation with a named partner of one of these firms. I'm not important and the matter wasn't big. They don't stock tons of associates though.

[UnicornHunter]

It's all leverage, right? So any firm with more than 5.0 associates to partners is in doomsday territory.

[TLSModBot]

can we add the 9 doomsday firms?

also awesome, thank you!

Cadwalader, Wickersham & Taft LLP
Gordon Rees Scully Mansukhani, LLP
DLA Piper
Fragomen, Del Rey, Bernsen & Loewy, LLP
squire patton boggs
Paul, Weiss, Rifkind, Wharton & Garrison LLP
Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton LLP
White & Case LLP
Curtis, Mallet-Prevost, Colt & Mosle LLP

[Foghornleghorn]

And the culling of the non-equity partners begins.

[LazyLASA]

can we add the 9 doomsday firms?

also awesome, thank you!

Cadwalader, Wickersham & Taft LLP
Gordon Rees Scully Mansukhani, LLP
DLA Piper
Fragomen, Del Rey, Bernsen & Loewy, LLP
Squire Patton Boggs
Paul, Weiss, Rifkind, Wharton & Garrison LLP
Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton LLP
White & Case LLP
Curtis, Mallet-Prevost, Colt & Mosle LLP

yeah, I think we can quickly dispense with calling those doomsday firms.

[TLSModBot]

Aren't firms just gonna increase their billing rate? For the sake of round numbers, $10 more per hour x 2k hours a year makes up for the 20k bonus.

But also, what a time to be a law student. Apply while app numbers are at their lowest, do OCI in a booming economy. Graduate with a pay raise.

Sure, you can increase billing rates. But for every $5 extra you bill, the client demands $6 in discounts.

See this report (pages 5-6) for more info on collection rates vs. billing rates.

[jbagelboy]

Cleary and PW will have to match without a doubt.

It will hit PW hard due to their leverage. But they had to expect that would happen.

[Anonymous User]

No Offers to 30 %

[Byakuya769]

Why freak out about an absolute change in PPP? The % change is more important. If your firm is at 550k PPP and you get hit with a 35k hike in overhead, that's going to hurt a lot more than if you're ~2MM and you get hit with 100k in overhead. First by percent, secondly because the diminishing value of each said dollar of profit.

I mean, if Partners want to jump ship to firms that hold the line at 160, by all means. But the firm will end up regretting the recruiting hit eventually.

[soj]

.

[Desert Fox]

Now do it as a percentage of their PPP. Even that is understating it. Someone like Paul Weiss might get hit harder cause of leverage, but they have a high PPP already.

The real doomsday firms are the ones with medium to high leverage, but who also under-perform PPP already. I'd say firms with under 1.5mil PPP are the ones who have to worry.

Paul wiess can give away 100k PPP. Nixon Peabody can't.

[TLSModBot]

can we add the 9 doomsday firms?

also awesome, thank you!

Cadwalader, Wickersham & Taft LLP
Gordon Rees Scully Mansukhani, LLP
DLA Piper
Fragomen, Del Rey, Bernsen & Loewy, LLP
Squire Patton Boggs
Paul, Weiss, Rifkind, Wharton & Garrison LLP
Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton LLP
White & Case LLP
Curtis, Mallet-Prevost, Colt & Mosle LLP

yeah, I think we can quickly dispense with calling those doomsday firms.

A couple would be severely in trouble if they adopted the raised salaries. A couple firms could just laugh it off while masturbating with fistfuls of $100 bills. A couple more kind of walk the middle territory - it's an interesting mix overall.

[sublime]

..