How to be a Prosecution/PD Gunner? Forum

[Anonymous User]

BrooklynDS accepted an EJW interview request this morning. Anyone else see any movement?

were you able to accept under the task list and schedule a time slot?

No. I was just checking that and apparently that option doesn't start until tomorrow.

[Anonymous User]

To the anon worried about grades, JUST APPLY ANYWAY. It doesn't matter and you lose nothing by trying.

By way of anecdote, I did pretty okay my 1L year and got absolutely hulk-smashed beyond-median-pwned my 2L fall. I interviewed with the USAO during my 2L spring and got a spot as a law clerk anyway. In that office, I think maybe all but one of the attorneys were in the top ten of their respective classes, but they took a chance on me anyway. In my experience, the commitment is what matters, so really sell that.

As for writing sample, I always use a brief (or at least one argument from it). It's by far my most polished piece from school and I couldn't use most of what I wrote at the USAO because I would have had to redact everything. Brief/motion is preferable to virtually everything else.

Lol, medianpwned looks pretty good from the position i'm in.

i know i should apply anyway. but does anyone have an answer to my question? i was just wondering which offices ask so I could sort offices between "> snowball's chance in hell" and "< snowball's chance in hell.

[BlueLotus]

How important are "ties" for NYC PD offices? I know that the TLS conventional wisdom says that NYC BigLaw doesn't care at all, but I'm wondering if the same holds true for public interest. My ties to NYC are rather tenuous (lived there when I was reallllly little + have extended family there).

[Tanicius]

To the anon worried about grades, JUST APPLY ANYWAY. It doesn't matter and you lose nothing by trying.

By way of anecdote, I did pretty okay my 1L year and got absolutely hulk-smashed beyond-median-pwned my 2L fall. I interviewed with the USAO during my 2L spring and got a spot as a law clerk anyway. In that office, I think maybe all but one of the attorneys were in the top ten of their respective classes, but they took a chance on me anyway. In my experience, the commitment is what matters, so really sell that.

As for writing sample, I always use a brief (or at least one argument from it). It's by far my most polished piece from school and I couldn't use most of what I wrote at the USAO because I would have had to redact everything. Brief/motion is preferable to virtually everything else.

Lol, medianpwned looks pretty good from the position i'm in.

i know i should apply anyway. but does anyone have an answer to my question? i was just wondering which offices ask so I could sort offices between "> snowball's chance in hell" and "< snowball's chance in hell.

Brooklyn Defender Services and NYC Legal Aid Society ask for a transcript, but I have heard no word about how much they value the transcript against other factors. You are definitely selling yourself short if you do not apply to both of those offices.

[spleenworship]

Just curious, anyone have any idea how important school ranking is to some of these more elite PD offices? I'm at a T2 in flyover country as far as the East Coast is concerned.

[Anonymous User]

To the anon worried about grades, JUST APPLY ANYWAY. It doesn't matter and you lose nothing by trying.

By way of anecdote, I did pretty okay my 1L year and got absolutely hulk-smashed beyond-median-pwned my 2L fall. I interviewed with the USAO during my 2L spring and got a spot as a law clerk anyway. In that office, I think maybe all but one of the attorneys were in the top ten of their respective classes, but they took a chance on me anyway. In my experience, the commitment is what matters, so really sell that.

As for writing sample, I always use a brief (or at least one argument from it). It's by far my most polished piece from school and I couldn't use most of what I wrote at the USAO because I would have had to redact everything. Brief/motion is preferable to virtually everything else.

Lol, medianpwned looks pretty good from the position i'm in.

i know i should apply anyway. but does anyone have an answer to my question? i was just wondering which offices ask so I could sort offices between "> snowball's chance in hell" and "< snowball's chance in hell.

Brooklyn Defender Services and NYC Legal Aid Society ask for a transcript, but I have heard no word about how much they value the transcript against other factors. You are definitely selling yourself short if you do not apply to both of those offices.

well, they wouldn't ask if they didn't care a great deal, right?

[Tanicius]

Brooklyn Defender Services and NYC Legal Aid Society ask for a transcript, but I have heard no word about how much they value the transcript against other factors. You are definitely selling yourself short if you do not apply to both of those offices.

well, they wouldn't ask if they didn't care a great deal, right?

Not necessarily. They may take them as a formality and not really look at them at all, or if they do it might be only certain hiring committee members who care about them while others do not care about them whatsoever. It's a lot like law school admissions at a holistic school -- you may have some people really fighting for you based off your resume or cover letter.

[Anonymous User]

Brooklyn Defender Services and NYC Legal Aid Society ask for a transcript, but I have heard no word about how much they value the transcript against other factors. You are definitely selling yourself short if you do not apply to both of those offices.

well, they wouldn't ask if they didn't care a great deal, right?

Not necessarily. They may take them as a formality and not really look at them at all, or if they do it might be only certain hiring committee members who care about them while others do not care about them whatsoever. It's a lot like law school admissions at a holistic school -- you may have some people really fighting for you based off your resume or cover letter.

So, PDs offices are basically the Boalts of legal hiring?

[Anonymous User]

How important are "ties" for NYC PD offices? I know that the TLS conventional wisdom says that NYC BigLaw doesn't care at all, but I'm wondering if the same holds true for public interest. My ties to NYC are rather tenuous (lived there when I was reallllly little + have extended family there).

In my experience it is the exact opposite for PDs--only NY offices care about ties.

[Tanicius]

Brooklyn Defender Services and NYC Legal Aid Society ask for a transcript, but I have heard no word about how much they value the transcript against other factors. You are definitely selling yourself short if you do not apply to both of those offices.

well, they wouldn't ask if they didn't care a great deal, right?

Not necessarily. They may take them as a formality and not really look at them at all, or if they do it might be only certain hiring committee members who care about them while others do not care about them whatsoever. It's a lot like law school admissions at a holistic school -- you may have some people really fighting for you based off your resume or cover letter.

So, PDs offices are basically the Boalts of legal hiring?

I prefer to think of Public Defender offices as the Yales of legal hiring. Yale+, even. The closest thing you could come to combining Yale with Jesus, if you will.

[Pretzel_Logic]

To the anon worried about grades, JUST APPLY ANYWAY. It doesn't matter and you lose nothing by trying.

By way of anecdote, I did pretty okay my 1L year and got absolutely hulk-smashed beyond-median-pwned my 2L fall. I interviewed with the USAO during my 2L spring and got a spot as a law clerk anyway. In that office, I think maybe all but one of the attorneys were in the top ten of their respective classes, but they took a chance on me anyway. In my experience, the commitment is what matters, so really sell that.

As for writing sample, I always use a brief (or at least one argument from it). It's by far my most polished piece from school and I couldn't use most of what I wrote at the USAO because I would have had to redact everything. Brief/motion is preferable to virtually everything else.

Lol, medianpwned looks pretty good from the position i'm in.

i know i should apply anyway. but does anyone have an answer to my question? i was just wondering which offices ask so I could sort offices between "> snowball's chance in hell" and "< snowball's chance in hell.

You have < snowball's chance anywhere you don't apply. Just do it, you really have absolutely nothing to lose and everything to gain. Who gives a rat's if they ask for a transcript? A friend of mine was literally bottom of the class at one point and she's employed and I'm not, so seriously, JUST DO IT.

[BlueLotus]

How important are "ties" for NYC PD offices? I know that the TLS conventional wisdom says that NYC BigLaw doesn't care at all, but I'm wondering if the same holds true for public interest. My ties to NYC are rather tenuous (lived there when I was reallllly little + have extended family there).

In my experience it is the exact opposite for PDs--only NY offices care about ties.

interesting. you'd think that PDs in the boonies would care more about ties. would my flimsy ties ding me from Bronx Defenders? i'm from a large city in the northeast (think Boston, Philly) and attend a school that feeds pretty substantially into the NYC market.

[Anonymous User]

So - I was "not accepted" for a Bronx Defenders spot earlier today - and I got an email from EJW saying I wasn't selected. But now the website says that I was "accepted" for an interview...

has this happened to anyone else? (I'm a 3L applying for post-grad positions if that matters...) is this too good to be true?

[Anonymous User]

anyone direct apply to Philly PD?

[golfer89]

I was just able to sign up for a 3L interview with Brooklyn Defenders.

As for the transcript question, I think that for many PD offices, they're looking at it to make sure you've taken certain classes like evidence, crim pro, trial advocacy, etc.

[spleenworship]

So - I was "not accepted" for a Bronx Defenders spot earlier today - and I got an email from EJW saying I wasn't selected. But now the website says that I was "accepted" for an interview...

has this happened to anyone else? (I'm a 3L applying for post-grad positions if that matters...) is this too good to be true?

I got not accepted by Bronx (see above). When I look on EJW website, it still says not accepted.

anyone direct apply to Philly PD?

I did. They sent me an email saying they would let me know if I was selected for an interview.

[spleenworship]

As for the transcript question, I think that for many PD offices, they're looking at it to make sure you've taken certain classes like evidence, crim pro, trial advocacy, etc.

Yeah, I have heard that the only grades they care about are your evidence and crim pro grades.

[FlanAl]

How important are "ties" for NYC PD offices? I know that the TLS conventional wisdom says that NYC BigLaw doesn't care at all, but I'm wondering if the same holds true for public interest. My ties to NYC are rather tenuous (lived there when I was reallllly little + have extended family there).

In my experience it is the exact opposite for PDs--only NY offices care about ties.

interesting. you'd think that PDs in the boonies would care more about ties. would my flimsy ties ding me from Bronx Defenders? i'm from a large city in the northeast (think Boston, Philly) and attend a school that feeds pretty substantially into the NYC market.

New York is pretty rough on a PD salary, especially compared to places like Mecklendberg, so I think they want to make sure that there is something that is really motivating you to go NY instead of somewhere where you'll be able to afford a better lifestyle. (not like your crushing it elsewhere, its just that NYC COL is really intense)

[FlanAl]

I also got a ding email from bronx. I intend to apply to them directly now and then probably again for the NYU public interest fair.

[adonai]

As for the transcript question, I think that for many PD offices, they're looking at it to make sure you've taken certain classes like evidence, crim pro, trial advocacy, etc.

Yeah, I have heard that the only grades they care about are your evidence and crim pro grades.

Transcripts are probably for the above reason, but can also be used to verify that you go to your law school and/or are in good standing. Asking for a transcript doesn't necessarily mean they care about what grades you actually got, but they will probably see them.

And right now I'm applying for an honors program that I'm totally not academically qualified to apply to either. My prof. also asked for my transcript for an LOR (I did well in that prof's class) but I otherwise have crap grades. I'm super embarassed/ashamed too. But you know what, like someone said above, you miss 100% of shots you don't take. Other things COULD make up for bad grades. In my experience, if you can snag an interview and rock it, that is the most important thing.

As an example, I did an externship with a Fed CoA. I didn't bother to apply for the clerkship because it was just way too out of my league. But the clerks later told me they were waiting and expecting me to apply and would have put my file at the top of the pile to recommend to the judge. I lost out on this chance because I simply gave in to my inferiority and didn't apply. Would I have gotten a clerkship? Probably not, but then again you never know what could happen in those types of circumstances. You can't control what other people will do or react to you, but you can control how you respond and feel. So get over the grades and APPLY!

[BlueLotus]

I also got a ding email from bronx. I intend to apply to them directly now and then probably again for the NYU public interest fair.

is that fair only open to folks in NYC area law schools?

[BlueLotus]

How important are "ties" for NYC PD offices? I know that the TLS conventional wisdom says that NYC BigLaw doesn't care at all, but I'm wondering if the same holds true for public interest. My ties to NYC are rather tenuous (lived there when I was reallllly little + have extended family there).

In my experience it is the exact opposite for PDs--only NY offices care about ties.

interesting. you'd think that PDs in the boonies would care more about ties. would my flimsy ties ding me from Bronx Defenders? i'm from a large city in the northeast (think Boston, Philly) and attend a school that feeds pretty substantially into the NYC market.

New York is pretty rough on a PD salary, especially compared to places like Mecklendberg, so I think they want to make sure that there is something that is really motivating you to go NY instead of somewhere where you'll be able to afford a better lifestyle. (not like your crushing it elsewhere, its just that NYC COL is really intense)

ahh, that makes sense.

SF PD is where the real money's at: http://sfpublicdefender.org/careers/employment/

[Anonymous User]

Can someone who has figured out this LAS application please tell me how the fuck to convert everything from pdf to word to pdf back again. Well some things are just word documents but how do I convert everything into one PDF document without it looking like shit. I'm using a mac. HALP.

Current 3L here ... no words from EJW apps yet but only applied to PD offices

so if you're using a mac, do everything in preview. then make sure you can view thumbnails. When you do that, you can drag and drop thumbnails from one file to another. very easy, and free!

[Ty Webb]

All the folks who got dinged by the Bronx, was this for the criminal practice or the family defense practice?

I got a ding from the family defense side, and I also applied for the criminal defense side. No ding there (yet). I'm hoping maybe this is good news (I sure as hell could need some).

Update: Also a ding for me from Brooklyn this morning.

Still waiting to hear from everywhere else.

[spleenworship]

All the folks who got dinged by the Bronx, was this for the criminal practice or the family defense practice?

I got a ding from the family defense side, and I also applied for the criminal defense side. No ding there (yet). I'm hoping maybe this is good news (I sure as hell could need some).

Update: Also a ding for me from Brooklyn this morning.

Still waiting to hear from everywhere else.

Crim Def side fer me.