UChicago OCI 2015 Forum

[beepboopbeep]

I mean pretty much everyone posts bidlists anon, right

I'll have to disagree with Emma on the Bay/NYC bidlist. I'd feel really unsafe w/ SF/SV as one of two markets I'm bidding. It's pretty small and insular. Maybe with more NYC in the middle.

I'm not trying to be difficult, but can you explain this? Wouldn't replacing the Chicago spots with more NYC spots make this list safer?

If it's just adding NYC, then yea I'm with you. I read it as filling the rest w/ bay area or a mix, which IMO would add risk. I mean I think a lot of those Chicago bids will be misses anyway, so in some senses anything else will help. I'm just really hesitant to recommend that any bidlists get more SF/SV-heavy given some of the outcomes in my class last year.

[Emma.]

I mean pretty much everyone posts bidlists anon, right

I'll have to disagree with Emma on the Bay/NYC bidlist. I'd feel really unsafe w/ SF/SV as one of two markets I'm bidding. It's pretty small and insular. Maybe with more NYC in the middle.

I'm not trying to be difficult, but can you explain this? Wouldn't replacing the Chicago spots with more NYC spots make this list safer?

If it's just adding NYC, then yea I'm with you. I read it as filling the rest w/ bay area or a mix, which IMO would add risk. I mean I think a lot of those Chicago bids will be misses anyway, so in some senses anything else will help. I'm just really hesitant to recommend that any bidlists get more SF/SV-heavy given some of the outcomes in my class last year.

Ah yeah. We're on the same page then. I probably should have made clearer that I was suggesting dropping Chi to add more NYC.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks in advance for everyone's help.

Grades: 178.0.
URM: Hispanic.
Work Experience: K-JD.
Preferred Market: 1. Silicon Valley. 2. CHI. 3. NY.
Practice Area: 1. Emerging Companies. 2. Venture Capital. 3. Anything “transactional.”
Misc: 1. Some firms are noticeably missing. I was lucky to get those through diversity career fairs. 2. I have a believable story as to my preferred market and practice area. 3. I have no ties to SV. 4. The motivation for CHI is to pay off loans quicker.

Bid list: [Firm name] / [Market] / [Interview Slots]

1. Fenwick / SV / 21
2. Sidley / CHI / 84
3. Gibson Dunn / SV / 10
4. Cooley / SV / 42
5. Winston / CHI / 42
6. Katten / CHI / 42
7. Gunderson / SV / 21
8. Simpson / NY / 63
9. Davis Polk / NY / 21
10. S&C / NY / 42
11. Debevoise / NY / 63
12. Fried Frank / NY / 42
13. Shearman / NY / 21
14. Proskauer / NY / 21
15. Cravath / NY / 38
16. Schiff / CHI / 84
17. Paul Weiss / NY / 42
18. Baker / CHI / 21
19. Perkins / CHI / 32
20. K&L / CHI / 21
---
21-32. Random NY.

[Anonymous User]

Anon that Emma responded to How is this modified first? Thank you for your help! I am missing few key firms because of diversity fairs.

1. Goodwin – SV – 6
2. K&E – NYC – 21
3. Latham & Watkins – SV – 22
4. Fenwick – SV (Mountain View) – 21
5. Davis Polk – NYC – 21
6. Winston & Strawn – Chicago – 42
7. Gunderson – SV – 21
8. Paul Weiss – NYC – 42
9. Shearman & Sterling – NYC – 21
10. Mayer Brown – Chicago – 73
11. WSGR – SV – 40
12. White & Case – NYC - 21
13. Simpson Thacher – NYC – 63
14. Debevoise – NYC – 63
15. Cravath – NYC- 38
16. S&C – NYC - 42
17. Fried Frank – NYC – 42
18. Ropes & Gray – NYC – 42
19. Cadwalader – NYC – 21
20. Jones Day – Chicago – 42
21. Proskauer – NYC – 21
22. Derchert – NYC – 21
23. Schiff & Hardin – Chicago – 84
24. Katten – Chicago – 42
25. Perkins – Chicago – 32
26-40: Random NYC/Chicago firms I am hoping no one would bid

[Crowing]

This has been said in this thread, but I think it is really important to really understand so I'm going to repeat it--there is no such thing as a Chicago "safety."

The safety for Chicago is NYC.

The smaller Chicago firms may be looking to take only 1 or 2 people, so they are looking very carefully and specifically for what they want. If you have a 180 and you're interviewing with Katten, unless you can give a very compelling reason why you want to go there specifically, you're not getting a callback. They'll know you're just trying to use them as a backup plan.

Giant NYC firms just need bodies and they don't get a lot of UChicago interest (e.g. DPW only has 2 summers there from c/o 2016) so your odds there are much better.

Don't assume that lower Vault ranking means lower selectivity. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

[Anonymous User]

How down do you people think I can go to get Skadden NY, Cleary NY, Cravath NY?

I am considering 13,14,15ish atm.

[Anonymous User]

Ok here we go. Still trying to figure this out

Grades: Transfer - #3 in class from a (40-60) school; lots of 1L accolades (PM me for details if needed)
URM: No
Work Experience: K-JD (but have consistently worked while in school since 16)
Preferred Market: 1. Chicago. 2. NY.
Practice Area: Transactional
Misc. No significant ties to either market, but I can manufacture a decent story for Chi.

1. Sidley Austin - Chicago - 84
2. Kirkland Ellis - Chicago - 84
3. Jenner & Block - Chicago - 63 (tiny SA class, could be lower?)
4. Katten - Chicago - 42
5. Gibson Dunn - NYC - 21
6. Mayer Brown - Chicago - 73
7. Skadden - Chicago - 84
8. Cleary - NYC - 42
9. Paul Weiss - NYC - 42
10. McDermott - Chicago - 63
11. Debevoise - NYC - 63
12. Davis Polk - NYC - 42
13. Simpson - NYC - 63
14. Sullivan Cromwell - NYC - 42
15. Jones Day - NYC - 21
16. Milbank - NYC - 21
17. Proskauer - NYC - 21
18. MoFo - NYC - 21
19. King Spalding - NYC - 10
20. Allen Overy - NYC - 15
21. Dechert - Chicago - 42
22. Dentons - Chicago - 21
23. DLA Piper - Chicago - 21
24. Drinker Biddle - Chicago - 32
25. Edelson - Chicago - 21
26. Elmer Stahl - Chicago - 21
27. Holland Knight - Chicago - 10
28. Paul Hastings - Chicago - 21
29. Proskauer - Chicago - 21
30. Reed Smith - Chicago - 21
31. Foley - Chicago - 21
32. Paul Hastings - NYC - 7
33. Ropes Gray - NYC - 42
34. Sheppard Mullin - NYC - 21
35. Skadden - NYC - 42 (lol?)
36. Wilmer Hale - NYC - 21
37. Wilson Sonsini - NYC - 12
38. Winston Strawn - NYC - 21
39. Baker Hostetler - NYC - 18
40. Boies Schiller - NYC - 21

I wanted more Chicago firms higher but the SA class size just drops off so significantly, and a few firms that were at OCI last year won't be there this year. I also know the NY firms probably still need work.

Thanks in advance.

[N.P.H.]

How down do you people think I can go to get Skadden NY, Cleary NY, Cravath NY?

I am considering 13,14,15ish atm.

10, 14, 16 respectively.

[N.P.H.]

Ok here we go. Still trying to figure this out

Grades: Transfer - #3 in class from an average school; lots of 1L accolades (PM me for details if needed)

Hits until 14 and then basically nothing. 21 slot NY firms need to be bid higher.

What range is your old school in? "Average" is kind of opaque.

[Anonymous User]

(I'm the second poster you responded to)

Thanks, and the school is 40-60.

Also, whats the optimal number of hits? Is the goal to get close to 20? I don't see how you can get more than that without bidding really undesirable firms :/

[beepboopbeep]

(I'm the second poster you responded to)

Thanks, and the school is 40-60.

Also, whats the optimal number of hits? Is the goal to get close to 20? I don't see how you can get more than that without bidding really undesirable firms :/

1 - Don't be too above anything before you know what you get for CBs

2 - # of screeners probably depends on market, but I hit 30+ last year and only had a couple that I wasn't particularly interested in. That's probably on the high end relative to most, but especially if you're bidding two markets - there are more than 20 good firms across the two. Chi/NY is kind of hard since they tend to fill fast, but definitely possible with smart bidding. Also remember that if you don't hit particular firms through bidding you can grab them in add/drop or by showing up early to ask.

[Anonymous User]

Same guy again. And I didn't mean to come off as snobbish, I'm totally on your page about offers first - be picky later. I'll try to rework the lower of my list.

Is there any of my top 15 that can be moved down safely? I'm not sure how to differentiate between many of the 21 slot firms for bid #

[N.P.H.]

Same guy again. And I didn't mean to come off as snobbish, I'm totally on your page about offers first - be picky later. I'll try to rework the lower of my list.

Is there any of my top 15 that can be moved down safely? I'm not sure how to differentiate between many of the 21 slot firms for bid #

Cleary can be 13-14
Deb can be around 14-15 (went in the 20s 2 years ago, around 14 last year if i recall correctly)
DPW can be 13-14
STB had hit at 17 2 years ago (last year was higher because of the callback report, so like 14-15?)
S&C can be like 17 I think -- known as grade selective so they are usually not bid heavily.

Anyone feel free to correct me I'm just shooting these off without checking past threads

[beepboopbeep]

No worries anon.

S&C needed 15/16 last year, I think people starting to catch on that bc NYC isn't as popular at UChi they'll dip a bit deeper here. Sounds right otherwise.

[N.P.H.]

FWIW I had 19 screeners, no misses until #18. This seemed pretty typical in NY/Chi.

I know multiple people with 179s who were near striking out because they got one offer (and they all considered themselves normal), and I know people with median who were swimming in offers. Grades don't guarantee anything so you want to get as many screeners as possible, mass mail, and pick up as many firms as you can from add/drop.

I encouraged a friend to pick up a firm from add/drop and it was his only offer. It only takes one to avoid striking out.

[Anonymous User]

Ok, I incorporated NPH's suggestions. I THINK I may be good until 16 now, still have to work to get down to 18-19 for sure. And I will definitely utilize add/drop, and have a CB set up tomorrow aquired through mailing.

The problem I'm having is that the business/corporate departments of my firms below 17 are itty-bitty, and if not then the SA class sizes are tiny. Are there any NY firms I should consider moving higher? (i.e. Skadden? Is that too far of a reach for me?) Also, I know Skadden allows multiple interviews, but is it looked down upon? Sorry for all the questions guys. I know this is important, so I want to get it right.

Only changed 10-20
1. Sidley Austin - Chicago - 84
2. Kirkland Ellis - Chicago - 84
3. Jenner & Block - Chicago - 63 (tiny SA class, could be lower?)
4. Katten - Chicago - 42
5. Gibson Dunn - NYC - 21
6. Mayer Brown - Chicago - 73
7. Skadden - Chicago - 84
8. Paul Weiss - NYC - 42
9 . McDermott - Chicago - 63
10. Jones Day - NYC - 21
11. Milbank - NYC - 21
12. Cleary - NYC - 42
13. Davis Polk - NYC - 42
14. Debevoise - NYC - 63
15. Sullivan Cromwell - NYC - 42
16. Simpson - NYC - 63
17. Proskauer - NYC - 21
18. MoFo - NYC - 21
19. Allen Overy - NYC - 10
20. King Spaulding - NYC - 15

[N.P.H.]

Ok, I incorporated NPH's suggestions. I THINK I may be good until 16 now, still have to work to get down to 18-19 for sure. And I will definitely utilize add/drop, and have a CB set up tomorrow aquired through mailing.

The problem I'm having is that the business/corporate departments of my firms below 17 are itty-bitty, and if not then the SA class sizes are tiny. Are there any NY firms I should consider moving higher? (i.e. Skadden? Is that too far of a reach for me?) Also, I know Skadden allows multiple interviews, but is it looked down upon? Sorry for all the questions guys. I know this is important, so I want to get it right.

Only changed 10-20
1. Sidley Austin - Chicago - 84 hit
2. Kirkland Ellis - Chicago - 84 hit
3. Jenner & Block - Chicago - 63 anything this high could be lower. it's okay.
4. Katten - Chicago - 42 good
5. Gibson Dunn - NYC - 21 good
6. Mayer Brown - Chicago - 73 good
7. Skadden - Chicago - 84 good
8. Paul Weiss - NYC - 42 good
9 . McDermott - Chicago - 63 i think good.
10. Jones Day - NYC - 21 good
11. Milbank - NYC - 21 good (might be able to go later with this, check past threads)
12. Cleary - NYC - 42 good
13. Davis Polk - NYC - 42 good
14. Debevoise - NYC - 63 good
15. Sullivan Cromwell - NYC - 42 good
16. Simpson - NYC - 63 pretty good (could maybe use a bump depending on your class)
17. Proskauer - NYC - 21 miss
18. MoFo - NYC - 21 miss
19. Allen Overy - NYC - 10 miss
20. King Spaulding - NYC - 15 miss

Proskauer and MoFo are pretty well known as well. Likely misses. If you want to fill the back-end with safties, do firms you haven't heard of hoping someone misses it.

A&O has no chance of going that late. Well known because of international presence and very few slots.

Otherwise, looks like you're in very good shape. Most firms are in their perfect spot, unless I noted otherwise.

[Anonymous User]

How low can I go on Pircher, Chapman, Greenberg ?

[Anonymous User]

~179 GPA, strong Chicago preference, can make the case for litigation or transactional
K-JD but worked throughout college, not an URM, assume average interviewing skills
I hope this isn't an awful first attempt:

Rank//Firm//Office//Slots//Incoming SAs
1 Sidley Austin Chicago 84 28
2 Schiff Hardin Chicago 84 16
3 Kirkland & Ellis Chicago 84 41
4 Jenner & Block Chicago 63 15
5 Jones Day Chicago 42 17
6 Skadden Chicago 84 28
7 Mayer Brown Chicago 73 23
8 Baker McKenzie Chicago 21 14
9 Latham & Watkins Chicago 61 15
10 DLA Piper Chicago 21 35*
11 Debevoise Plimpton New York 63 66
12 Paul Weiss Rifkind Wharton & Garrison New York 42 128
13 Drinker Biddle & Reath Chicago 32 3
14 Katten Muchin Rosenman Chicago 42 15
15 Dentons Chicago 21 3
16 Dechert Chicago 42 2
17 Ropes & Gray Chicago 21 9
18 Reed Smith Chicago 21 9
19 Chapman and Cutler Chicago 21 6
20 Bryan Cave Chicago 21 2
21 McDermott Will & Emery Chicago 63 27*
22 Barack Ferazzano Kirschbaum & Nagelburg Chicago 42 ?
23 Perkins Coie Chicago 32 2
24 Proskauer Rose Chicago 21 2
25 Faegre Baker Daniels Chicago 16 2
26 Greenberg Traurig Chicago 21 7
27 Elmer Stahl Chicago 21 ?
28 Shook Hardy & Bacon Chicago 21 ?
29 Edelson Chicago 21 ?
30 Pircher Nichols & Meeks Chicago 21 4
31 Paul Hastings Chicago 21 ?
32 Simpson Thacher New York 63 93
33 mcguirewoods Chicago 21 4
34 Locke Lord Bissel & Liddel Chicago 13 ?
35 Polsinelli Chicago 10 3
36 Taft Stettinius & Hollister Chicago 10 1
37 Miller Shackman & Beem Chicago 21 ?
38 Vedder Price Chicago 21 7
39 Sheppard Mullin Richter & Hampton Chicago 21 2
40 K&L Gates Chicago 21 9
41 Holland & Knight Chicago 10 1
42 Foley & Lardner Chicago 21 7
43 Sullivan & Cromwell New York 42 108*
44 Gibson Dunn & Crutcher New York 21 29
45 Fried Frank Harris Shriver & Jacobson New York 42 41
46 Boies Schiller & Flexner New York 21 18*
47 mckool smith New York 21 13*
48 Morrison & Foerster New York 21 11
49 WilmerHale New York 21 19

*Firmwide

[N.P.H.]

~179 GPA, strong Chicago preference, can make the case for litigation or transactional
K-JD but worked throughout college, not an URM, assume average interviewing skills
I hope this isn't an awful first attempt:

Rank//Firm//Office//Slots//Incoming SAs
1 Sidley Austin Chicago 84 28 hit
2 Schiff Hardin Chicago 84 16 hit
3 Kirkland & Ellis Chicago 84 41 hit
4 Jenner & Block Chicago 63 15 hit
5 Jones Day Chicago 42 17 hit (swap with baker IMO)
6 Skadden Chicago 84 28 hit
7 Mayer Brown Chicago 73 23 hit
8 Baker McKenzie Chicago 21 14 maybe hit
9 Latham & Watkins Chicago 61 15 hit
10 DLA Piper Chicago 21 35* maybe hit (didn't bid myself)
11 Debevoise Plimpton New York 63 66 hit
12 Paul Weiss Rifkind Wharton & Garrison New York 42 128 miss - put around 8
13 Drinker Biddle & Reath Chicago 32 3 idk from here down.. didn't bid these
14 Katten Muchin Rosenman Chicago 42 15
15 Dentons Chicago 21 3
16 Dechert Chicago 42 2
17 Ropes & Gray Chicago 21 9
18 Reed Smith Chicago 21 9
19 Chapman and Cutler Chicago 21 6
20 Bryan Cave Chicago 21 2
*Firmwide

Why those two NY firms in particular?

Bidding straight chicago probably ok with a 179 but if you end up at Dentons instead of DPW in NY, you will probably regret it. I'd take out some of the extremely small class sizes in the low teens and put in NY firms with large class sizes that could facilitate a lateral move to Chicago in two years.

[skers]

I'd probably switch baker and schiff. I would probably go w/ a different firm than Deb, but that's more of a you call. More than "I can make a case for either corporate or lit," if you have a preference it'll make a difference at some these firms, like I wouldn't do corporate at Jenner. If you're on the fence, pretty much cool absent the other changes.

[Anonymous User]

Bid lists are due soon and corporate challenge results haven't posted yet. I was hoping to add "participant" or something to my resume. Does anyone know what the timeline is for those results?

[Anonymous User]

Bid lists are due soon and corporate challenge results haven't posted yet. I was hoping to add "participant" or something to my resume. Does anyone know what the timeline is for those results?

They said by the 23rd, so I'm assuming today or tomorrow. They definitely will post results before bidding ends.

Does anyone know what documents we need to have on our symplicity for bidding? Just transcript and resume correct?

[Anonymous User]

Can I ask why the aversion to Jenner corporate? If I drop them, I could shift everything up a spot or put something in its place. Would I have a shot at Proskauer or MoFo at 16/17 in any order? Also, are there any lower Chicago firms that should be on my more on my radar than those I have?

The Chicago firms i have in my top 20 are only:
Sidley; Kirkland; Jenner (may cut because want corporate); Katten; Mayer Brown; Skadden; and McDermott.

Those are the big players to my knowledge, but I'm just wondering if anybody has any personal or anecdotal experience about other firms that they'd recommend for any reason. I'm really flexible with 18-20, so if any good Chicago firms would go there, I'm open to putting them there. Chicago >>>>>>>>>>>>>> New York for me

Also, is adding the day of for Chicago firms typically pretty easy? I've been told that some firms will send extra attorneys so they can conduct more interviews than they have slots for (but this comes from someone who graduated a few years ago).

[skers]

Can I ask why the aversion to Jenner corporate? If I drop them, I could shift everything up a spot or put something in its place. Would I have a shot at Proskauer or MoFo at 16/17 in any order? Also, are there any lower Chicago firms that should be on my more on my radar than those I have?

The Chicago firms i have in my top 20 are only:
Sidley; Kirkland; Jenner (may cut because want corporate); Katten; Mayer Brown; Skadden; and McDermott.

Those are the big players to my knowledge, but I'm just wondering if anybody has any personal or anecdotal experience about other firms that they'd recommend for any reason. I'm really flexible with 18-20, so if any good Chicago firms would go there, I'm open to putting them there. Chicago >>>>>>>>>>>>>> New York for me

Also, is adding the day of for Chicago firms typically pretty easy? I've been told that some firms will send extra attorneys so they can conduct more interviews than they have slots for (but this comes from someone who graduated a few years ago).

The aversion to Jenner corporate is Jenner has relatively new and extremely small corporate practice and doesn't do a whole lot of corporate work. As an FYI, don't assume that b/c a firm is well known then that will equal a good practice in any particular area. Very few firms are generally top-tier. This is where it comes down to over corporate experience v. location as other knowledgeable people have mentioned here.

Other firms to have in your top 20: Latham for sure as they have a very solid cap market/finance and practice, Jones Day, goldberg kohn may be one to put up there as well for finance.