Michigan 2014 OCI Thread!!!!!!! Forum

[Anonymous User]

When using resume collect, should we keep our GPA off our resume? Or is the no-GPA deal only for bidding so firms are going in blind?

The no-GPA policy is just an OCI thing. The idea, I think, is to try to take some of the focus off of GPAs. When I had my call with OCP, they told me that in communicating with firms outside OCI, my GPA should be the first detail on my resume.

But if your GPA is middling and your work experience is outstanding, then leaving it off might be a good call. If your GPA is over, say 3.6, slap it on there, no question.

[Tubrid]

When using resume collect, should we keep our GPA off our resume? Or is the no-GPA deal only for bidding so firms are going in blind?

The no-GPA policy is just an OCI thing. The idea, I think, is to try to take some of the focus off of GPAs. When I had my call with OCP, they told me that in communicating with firms outside OCI, my GPA should be the first detail on my resume.

But if your GPA is middling and your work experience is outstanding, then leaving it off might be a good call. If your GPA is over, say 3.6, slap it on there, no question.

Exactly the kind of answer I was looking for. Thanks!

[scaliaantics]

When using resume collect, should we keep our GPA off our resume? Or is the no-GPA deal only for bidding so firms are going in blind?

In my opinion, if you have a high GPA, put it on. If you don't, leave it off.

[Anonymous User]

So I wanted to let everyone know that I think career services has been tweaking the 2l GPA Employer Qualification Charts. I know this because I copied the whole chart to excel 1 month ago and now the numbers are different. I don't think it shouldn't matter much but thought it could be relevant to someone...

[Anonymous User]

1. For mass mailing and resume drop firms, where are people indicating their GPA on their resume? Given the advice to only include if a GPA is "high" is 3.5 high enough to put on my resume? If so, where should I put it (i.e. separate bullet under school name or what?)

2. How are people listing journal affiliations on their resume? "Chosen/Selected for XX position on XX journal"?

Thanks

[Anonymous User]

1. For mass mailing and resume drop firms, where are people indicating their GPA on their resume? Given the advice to only include if a GPA is "high" is 3.5 high enough to put on my resume? If so, where should I put it (i.e. separate bullet under school name or what?)

2. How are people listing journal affiliations on their resume? "Chosen/Selected for XX position on XX journal"?

Thanks

On a related note, if you have a low GPA (~3.2), should you leave it off your resume when mass mailing and applying to resume drops and just wait for the employer to ask for it?

[potted plant]

1. For mass mailing and resume drop firms, where are people indicating their GPA on their resume? Given the advice to only include if a GPA is "high" is 3.5 high enough to put on my resume? If so, where should I put it (i.e. separate bullet under school name or what?)

2. How are people listing journal affiliations on their resume? "Chosen/Selected for XX position on XX journal"?

Thanks

I'm going to push back on the idea that your GPA should only be included if it's high. Employers don't want to search around for your GPA and if you leave it off your resume, they're not going to assume its high or even average, they're going to assume it's really low. I think most people should be putting their GPAs on their resume with the exception of those with pretty low GPAs. My opinion is anything around median or higher should definitely be on your resume.

So, yes, definitely put that 3.5 on your resume. My resume was formatted as:

UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN LAW SCHOOL
Juris Doctor
GPA: 3.XX/4.3
Journal - Associate Editor
Other Law School Activities

[Anonymous User]

I agree with the above. I would say the line is probably 3.2 or so. If you went to Stanford and then spent a couple of years at Google and GS, then made the stupid choice to come to Michigan and ended up with a 3.3, I might leave it off (but I don't think anyone in our class fits that description). Non-OCI firms are probably going to be less plugged in with the curve bump and more accustomed to regional schools, which tend to have tougher curves.

[scaliaantics]

Yeah I disagree. If its above a 3.0, put it on your resume. Anything else makes you look worse than you are.

Also, i know that OCP tells you to put your GPA out of 4.3 but you're an idiot if you do that. Just list your GPA. It just makes you look way worse than you are, and the people that are above a 4.0 that this practice apparently hurts 1) aren't going to be affected and 2) if it affects them, it makes them look even better. Don't put the /4.3. Don't do it.

Also list journal as: Associate Editor, Michigan Journal of Waste of Time.

[Anonymous User]

Yeah I disagree. If its above a 3.0, put it on your resume. Anything else makes you look worse than you are.

Also, i know that OCP tells you to put your GPA out of 4.3 but you're an idiot if you do that. Just list your GPA. It just makes you look way worse than you are, and the people that are above a 4.0 that this practice apparently hurts 1) aren't going to be affected and 2) if it affects them, it makes them look even better. Don't put the /4.3. Don't do it.

Also list journal as: Associate Editor, Michigan Journal of Waste of Time.

can someone comment on this? I've seen a couple pf people trying to throw off half of the class with stupid suggestions..

[Anonymous User]

I'm the poster from above who thought the line should be around 3.2. I don't think 3.0 is wrong. I think it probably varies from person to person and from firm to firm, but generally, in thinking about a non-OCI firm, especially one in a smaller market where 3.1 or 3.2 is safely in the range of acceptable GPAs for a Michigan student, I agree with putting it on. They're going to see your grades one way or another.

I also agree with not doing the /4.3 thing. I think it looks stupid.

[scaliaantics]

Yeah I disagree. If its above a 3.0, put it on your resume. Anything else makes you look worse than you are.

Also, i know that OCP tells you to put your GPA out of 4.3 but you're an idiot if you do that. Just list your GPA. It just makes you look way worse than you are, and the people that are above a 4.0 that this practice apparently hurts 1) aren't going to be affected and 2) if it affects them, it makes them look even better. Don't put the /4.3. Don't do it.

Also list journal as: Associate Editor, Michigan Journal of Waste of Time.

can someone comment on this? I've seen a couple pf people trying to throw off half of the class with stupid suggestions..

I'm a 3l who has no stake in hurting you guys. I just want michigan to do well.

[potted plant]

Yeah I disagree. If its above a 3.0, put it on your resume. Anything else makes you look worse than you are.

Also, i know that OCP tells you to put your GPA out of 4.3 but you're an idiot if you do that. Just list your GPA. It just makes you look way worse than you are, and the people that are above a 4.0 that this practice apparently hurts 1) aren't going to be affected and 2) if it affects them, it makes them look even better. Don't put the /4.3. Don't do it.

Also list journal as: Associate Editor, Michigan Journal of Waste of Time.

can someone comment on this? I've seen a couple pf people trying to throw off half of the class with stupid suggestions..

I'm a 3l who has no stake in hurting you guys. I just want michigan to do well.

As the person who originally put forward the /4.3 format, I think it's fine if you just list your GPA by itself.

[GMVarun]

Yeah I disagree. If its above a 3.0, put it on your resume. Anything else makes you look worse than you are.

Also, i know that OCP tells you to put your GPA out of 4.3 but you're an idiot if you do that. Just list your GPA. It just makes you look way worse than you are, and the people that are above a 4.0 that this practice apparently hurts 1) aren't going to be affected and 2) if it affects them, it makes them look even better. Don't put the /4.3. Don't do it.

Also list journal as: Associate Editor, Michigan Journal of Waste of Time.

I think you should put GPA on your resume as long as it is above a 3.0 for all non-OCI material. I also agree that putting it out of 4.3 probably hurts a little. But if OCP requires this (at least my year I think they did), I would follow it. If OCP does not require you to do it out 4.3, then yes do not put this. The last thing you want to do is not follow one of OCP's requirements and have OCP find out.

I also list journal the way scaliaantics does: Position, Journal Name (in italics).

[Druid]

Yeah I disagree. If its above a 3.0, put it on your resume. Anything else makes you look worse than you are.

Also, i know that OCP tells you to put your GPA out of 4.3 but you're an idiot if you do that. Just list your GPA. It just makes you look way worse than you are, and the people that are above a 4.0 that this practice apparently hurts 1) aren't going to be affected and 2) if it affects them, it makes them look even better. Don't put the /4.3. Don't do it.

Also list journal as: Associate Editor, Michigan Journal of Waste of Time.

can someone comment on this? I've seen a couple pf people trying to throw off half of the class with stupid suggestions..

In this thread? Like what? Also the above advice was spot on.

[Anonymous User]

If 3 digit GPA rounds up, is it ok to round up and only state two digits, e.g. if 3.566, is it ok to call that a 3.57? Because, you know, somehow .01 can seem important.

[Druid]

If 3 digit GPA rounds up, is it ok to round up and only state two digits, e.g. if 3.566, is it ok to call that a 3.57? Because, you know, somehow .01 can seem important.

Yes.

[FlightoftheEarls]

If 3 digit GPA rounds up, is it ok to round up and only state two digits, e.g. if 3.566, is it ok to call that a 3.57? Because, you know, somehow .01 can seem important.

Yes.

Assuming I'm reading the question correctly, I'm going to respectfully disagree here. I'm normally one who thinks people on TLS are far too neurotic about stupid shit (e.g., one PDF or three PDFs for mass-mail attachments - nobody gives a damn how you do your attachments so long as it's not something absurd like providing separate PDFs for each page of a writing sample), but if your transcript lists 3.566, your GPA is a 3.566 and should be listed as such. If I'm looking at your GPA as a 3.57 and notice that your transcript says 3.566, I'm immediately going to wonder what else you're "rounding up" on.

[Anonymous User]

NoCI trollz checking in! I can't wait to enjoy my extra month of summer.

[Druid]

If 3 digit GPA rounds up, is it ok to round up and only state two digits, e.g. if 3.566, is it ok to call that a 3.57? Because, you know, somehow .01 can seem important.

Yes.

Assuming I'm reading the question correctly, I'm going to respectfully disagree here. I'm normally one who thinks people on TLS are far too neurotic about stupid shit (e.g., one PDF or three PDFs for mass-mail attachments - nobody gives a damn how you do your attachments so long as it's not something absurd like providing separate PDFs for each page of a writing sample), but if your transcript lists 3.566, your GPA is a 3.566 and should be listed as such. If I'm looking at your GPA as a 3.57 and notice that your transcript says 3.566, I'm immediately going to wonder what else you're "rounding up" on.

I would agree if I thought standard GPA practice was to use three numbers after the decimal. But IME people rarely say, "I have a 3.566." But if the name of the game is "conservative: don't take any risks of pissing someone off" - and, as we've repeated here, it is - then it's probably best not to round up. I round up though.

[Anonymous User]

Informal poll: is Law Reform as terrible as everyone a few pages ago made it out to be, or was that just that just the internet being angry? My choice is between Law Reform and no journal, so I'm guessing it's better than nothing. Or is it?

[Druid]

Well what's your GPA and do you ever want to clerk?

[Anonymous User]

Well what's your GPA and do you ever want to clerk?

3.566 (which is evidently a popular GPA around here) and... maybe? I'm really enjoying working for a judge this summer, but I have some geographic/family constraints that pretty much bar going to, say, South Dakota just to do a federal clerkship.

[Anonymous User]

3.566 plus a solid start to your second year would actually be competitive for a lot of clerkships, not just random ones. Look at the distribution on those, keeping in mind that the curve has changed. You're probably not getting a circuit court (though someone with a 2.75 did), but SDNY, E.D. PA, N.D. IL, E.D. MI, those could all be real possibilities. Apparently more than a quarter of district court clerks don't do a journal, so it doesn't look disqualifying, although maybe that quarter were the folks who went to South Dakota.

[scaliaantics]

From what I understand, Clerkships were brutal this year. I think a 3.56 would have been competitive a couple of years ago. I'm not entirely sure that'll stay true next year. Id email OCP and ask (and take everything they say with a grain of salt).