UChicago OCI 2013 Forum

[Anonymous User]

One CB from mass-mailing a V50 NYC firm that doesn't come to OCI. 178-179, secondary journal.

-WW

[Anonymous User]

One CB from mass-mailing a V50 NYC firm that doesn't come to OCI. 178-179, secondary journal.

-WW

Ditto! Similar grades.


- Marshall Eriksen

[Anonymous User]

How low can you bid TX firms and still expect to get an interview (e.g. V&E, Fulbright, Baker Botts)?

[Anonymous User]

How low can you bid TX firms and still expect to get an interview (e.g. V&E, Fulbright, Baker Botts)?

Depends on your class's interest in Texas and whether the firms are also interviewing for their other offices. Last year Fulbright was only interviewing for Texas and didn't fill all their spots. V&E by contrast was interviewing for Texas, NY and DC so filled up (I think I had no problem getting it around 15 or 18)

[Anonymous User]

179, 1 year WE, no journal, non-URM. My preferred markets are Bay > Chicago > DC. Interested in litigation generally; gov enforcement, appellate lit, or securities lit all seem interesting too. I have ties to the Bay and Chicago, and career reasons for interest in DC. Thoughts on this list? I tried to rank these by number of interview slots and selectivity, but I don't have much of an idea for how popular the various firms are.

1. WilmerHale LLP (Washington, DC)
2. Ropes & Gray LLP (San Francisco, CA)
3. paul hastings llp (San Francisco, CA)
4. Morrison & Foerster LLP (San Francisco, CA)
5. Williams & Connolly (Washington, DC)
6. Pillsbury Winthrop Shaw Pittman LLP (San Francisco, CA)
7. Latham & Watkins (San Francisco, CA)
8. DLA Piper US LLP (East Palo Alto, CA)
9. Fenwick & West LLP (Mountain View, CA)
10. Reed Smith LLP (Chicago, IL)
11. Gibson Dunn & Crutcher LLP (San Francisco, CA)
12. Holland & Knight LLP (San Francisco, CA)
13. Wilson Sonsini Goodrich & Rosati (San Francisco, CA)
14. cooley llp (San Francisco, CA)
15. Dechert LLP (Silicon Valley, CA)
16. Bryan Cave LLP (San Francisco, CA)
17. polsinelli pc (Chicago, IL)
18. Dentons US LLP (Chicago, IL)
19. Foley & Lardner LLP (San Francisco, CA)
20. Covington & Burling LLP (Washington, DC)
21. Quarles & Brady LLP (Chicago, IL)
22. Jenner & Block LLP (Washington, DC)
23. goodwin procter llp (San Francisco, CA)
24. Locke Lord Bissell & Liddell LLP (Chicago, IL)
25. Perkins Coie LLP (Palo Alto, CA)
26. O'Melveny & Myers LLP (San Francisco, CA)
27. chapman and cutler llp (Chicago, IL)
28. mayer brown llp (Palo Alto, CA)
29. schiff hardin llp (San Francisco, CA)
30. Jenner & Block LLP (Chicago, IL)
31. Morgan Lewis & Bockius (San Francisco, CA)
32. Dykema Gossett (Chicago, IL)
33. Edwards Wildman Palmer LLP (Chicago, IL)
34. K&L Gates (Chicago, IL)
35. mcguirewoods LLP (Chicago, IL)
36. Vedder Price P.C. (Chicago, IL)
37. Skadden Arps Slate Meagher & Flom LLP (Palo Alto, CA)
38. Simpson Thacher & Bartlett (Palo Alto, CA)
39. Jones Day (Chicago, IL)
40. Steptoe & Johnson LLP (Washington, DC)
41. Arnold & Porter LLP (Washington, DC)
42. Crowell & Moring L.L.P. (Washington, DC)
43. Vinson & Elkins LLP (Washington, DC)
44. freshfields bruckhaus deringer LLP (Washington, DC)
45. Baker & Hostetler (Washington, DC)
46. Proskauer Rose (Chicago, IL)
47. Perkins Coie LLP (Chicago, IL)
48. Baker & McKenzie (Chicago, IL)
49. O'Melveny & Myers LLP (Menlo Park, CA)

[Anonymous User]

Covington and W&C essentially require 180 + Law Review. Worth bids, perhaps, but you can likely bid W&C near the bottom of your top 20 and still get a screener. If you don't land a screener at either of these two, the upshot is that you probably had a slim chance anyway.

Perkins Coie and Baker & McKenzie are wasted bids at 47 and 48. Probably true for Steptoe and Crowell as well. These firms, because they offer few screening interviews, need to be bid higher. Steptoe and Crowell seem more like matches for you, so it's better to try for these two (i.e., bid them high) than for W&C and Covington, IMO.

Jenner Chi needs to be in your top 10 or 12 to have any shot at getting a screener. Below 20 or 25, Vedder Price is a wasted bid as well.

Just curious: you're bidding on a lot of Chicago firms that don't pay anywhere near market (Polsinelli, Quarles, Dykema), and you're bidding them fairly high. Any reason why? Interested in labor law?

-WW

[Anonymous User]

.

[Anonymous User]

So, I think my bid list needs some serious help. Any advice? 175.5. Secondary Journal. Looking at NY and Chicago and would prefer transactional. Thoughts on the last 7?

Milbank, Mofo, S&C, Debevoise are likely out for you (grades). I'd replace them with market-paying non-selective NYC firms. (Sheppard Mullin NY would be a good addition).

Considering there are others with below-median grades, they will likely be putting the non-selective small Chicago firms much higher (polsinelli, for example). This is with the exception of 38 & 39 (just because I've never heard of them).

-Marshall Eriksen

[Anonymous User]

179, 1 year WE, no journal, non-URM. My preferred markets are Bay > Chicago > DC. Interested in litigation generally; gov enforcement, appellate lit, or securities lit all seem interesting too. I have ties to the Bay and Chicago, and career reasons for interest in DC. Thoughts on this list? I tried to rank these by number of interview slots and selectivity, but I don't have much of an idea for how popular the various firms are.

Lots of your Chi firms are too low, but I'm guessing you know that and Chicago is clearly a backup for you (Considering you bid firms like Polsinelli so high).
Be aware that the non-selective firms can be just as competitive when it comes to bidding because everyone with below median grades will be throwing higher bids at them.
K&L, McGuireWroods, Jones Day chicago are all probably too low (I'm only listing firms the previous anon didn't point out). Maybe even Chapman.

[Anonymous User]

.

[Anonymous User]

Thoughts on my list? Want Chicago. Leaning transactional. 179-179.5. Interesting WE.

This looks like a bidlist for someone who wants Chi/NY, rather than just Chi. Lots of your NY firms aren't backups. If you're truly more interested in getting into a prestigious firm, then your bidlist is fairly solid.

You probably have the grades to bid Chi only, and I'd recommend that. This will let the Chicago safeties go up (many of them have no shot where they're listed--Schiff, McGuire, Goldberg, Dentons, Barack).

tl;dr bidding selective firms in NY isn't increasing your chances at getting an offer. Think Shearman, Milbank, Sullcrom, Strook, Cadwalader and less DPW/Cleary/GDC.

Finally, I think Ropes might be too low considering they're sharing bids with other offices. Make sure you take that into account.

[Anonymous User]

Bidding Chicago only, how likely am I to get 13/13 interviews with this order:

1. Jenner
2. Sidley
3. Kirkland
4. Skadden
5. Latham
6. Mayer
7. Baker
8. Katten
9. Winston
10. Schiff
11. McDermott
12. DLA Piper
13. Greenberg

Are there any switches I should make to ensure I get all 13?

[Anonymous User]

Bidding Chicago only, how likely am I to get 13/13 interviews with this order:

1. Jenner
2. Sidley
3. Kirkland
4. Skadden
5. Latham
6. Mayer
7. Baker
8. Katten
9. Winston
10. Schiff
11. McDermott
12. DLA Piper
13. Greenberg

Are there any switches I should make to ensure I get all 13?

median, above-median, or below?

[Anonymous User]

bidding selective firms in NY isn't increasing your chances at getting an offer. Think Shearman, Milbank, Sullcrom, Strook, Cadwalader and less DPW/Cleary/GDC.

You're right to say bidding selective firms doesn't increase your chances of getting an offer, but SullCrom is not like Shearman, Milbank, Strook, and Cadwalader. It's arguably more selective than DPW (NY) and GDC (NY). Cleary is less grade-conscious than all three of these (albeit more popular, perhaps).

In any event, the poster's GPA is 179, so s/he has little to worry about in terms of grade selectivity outside WLRK, W&C, Covington, Munger, Susman, etc. Your advice would be more credited for someone around median.


-WW

[Anonymous User]

bidding selective firms in NY isn't increasing your chances at getting an offer. Think Shearman, Milbank, Sullcrom, Strook, Cadwalader and less DPW/Cleary/GDC.

You're right to say bidding selective firms doesn't increase your chances of getting an offer, but SullCrom is not like Shearman, Milbank, Strook, and Cadwalader. It's arguably more selective than DPW (NY) and GDC (NY). Cleary is less grade-conscious than all three of these (albeit more popular, perhaps).

In any event, the poster's GPA is 179, so s/he has little to worry about in terms of grade selectivity outside WLRK, W&C, Covington, Munger, Susman, etc. Your advice would be more credited for someone around median.


-WW

I think the point was that someone who wants Chicago throws in NY firms that will be backups/options in case he strikes out of Chicago. For a 179 GPA, Sullcrom is definitely a better bet than DPW for that posture -- one of the most grades-only firms in the city (from meetings with multiple alums who were involved in hiring), and a 179 is the kind of GPA that gets you over their threshold. DPW, on the other hand, is very fit-focused, so having a 179 GPA only gets you to the callback stage, and that's not even a sure thing. If the poster is going to displace Chicago firms in his bidlist, I think he's better off focusing on firms like that. I agree obviously that Sullcrom is not the same thing as Cadwalader, but high GPA students wanting to throw in NY firms as backups are better off throwing in Sullcrom than DPW and GDC, just because of how grade-focused the former is than the two latter firms.

[Anonymous User]

bidding selective firms in NY isn't increasing your chances at getting an offer. Think Shearman, Milbank, Sullcrom, Strook, Cadwalader and less DPW/Cleary/GDC.

You're right to say bidding selective firms doesn't increase your chances of getting an offer, but SullCrom is not like Shearman, Milbank, Strook, and Cadwalader. It's arguably more selective than DPW (NY) and GDC (NY). Cleary is less grade-conscious than all three of these (albeit more popular, perhaps).

In any event, the poster's GPA is 179, so s/he has little to worry about in terms of grade selectivity outside WLRK, W&C, Covington, Munger, Susman, etc. Your advice would be more credited for someone around median.


-WW

I think the point was that someone who wants Chicago throws in NY firms that will be backups/options in case he strikes out of Chicago. For a 179 GPA, Sullcrom is definitely a better bet than DPW for that posture -- one of the most grades-only firms in the city (from meetings with multiple alums who were involved in hiring), and a 179 is the kind of GPA that gets you over their threshold. DPW, on the other hand, is very fit-focused, so having a 179 GPA only gets you to the callback stage, and that's not even a sure thing. If the poster is going to displace Chicago firms in his bidlist, I think he's better off focusing on firms like that. I agree obviously that Sullcrom is not the same thing as Cadwalader, but high GPA students wanting to throw in NY firms as backups are better off throwing in Sullcrom than DPW and GDC, just because of how grade-focused the former is than the two latter firms.

Basically this. Cleary is arguably the most culture-focused top-firm in NY (DPW relatively close behind). S&C has almost 30 more SAs in NY and is more grade-focused, and I wanted to include it in the list because I didn't want the poster to think that S&C wasn't a smart choice.

Even with the grades, top rated firms are often harder to get into for a variety of reasons. If the poster had a 182 my advice would be different, but at 179 Cleary/DPW aren't a lock.

[Anonymous User]

Bidding Chicago only, how likely am I to get 13/13 interviews with this order:

1. Jenner
2. Sidley
3. Kirkland
4. Skadden
5. Latham
6. Mayer
7. Baker
8. Katten
9. Winston
10. Schiff
11. McDermott
12. DLA Piper
13. Greenberg

Are there any switches I should make to ensure I get all 13?

DLA with 14 slots is unlikely. Latham, Skadden, Mayer can probably be bid lower.

[Anonymous User]

median, above-median, or below?

178-178.5, and have another offer.

DLA with 14 slots is unlikely. Latham, Skadden, Mayer can probably be bid lower.

How high do you think DLA needs to be? I'm hesitant to move them into top 5-6 because I'd be much more upset losing an interview with the 3 you listed than with DLA.

[Anonymous User]

DLA with 14 slots is unlikely. Latham, Skadden, Mayer can probably be bid lower.

How high do you think DLA needs to be? I'm hesitant to move them into top 5-6 because I'd be much more upset losing an interview with the 3 you listed than with DLA.

I'm not bidding DLA, but I know it's quite popular for those with less-than-stellar grades (I know a few who bid top 5-6).

FWIW, I have Latham and Skadden much lower. I think Mayer would be safe around 8.

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone know what the deal is with some of the interviewing Chicago offices saying they expect zero summer associates on NALP (e.g. Locke Lord, Sheppard Mullin)? Is there another source or something to estimate how large the class size (if it exists, I guess) will be?

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone know what the deal is with some of the interviewing Chicago offices saying they expect zero summer associates on NALP (e.g. Locke Lord, Sheppard Mullin)? Is there another source or something to estimate how large the class size (if it exists, I guess) will be?

most likely, undisclosed or on a case-by-case basis

[The Brainalist]

where do you have ties?

Texas

Consider yourself warned about focusing too much on San Diego, at least where the interviewer is at OCI for multiple offices. If you are willing to take a LA or Orange County office instead, it will be less likely a waste of an interview.

[Anonymous User]

How high should I be bidding NorCal offices with 21 bid slots to have a reasonable shot at them? Median grades

[Emma.]

How high should I be bidding NorCal offices with 21 bid slots to have a reasonable shot at them? Median grades

Really hard to tell b/c it all depends on how many people in your class want the Bay Area. Some years there are less than 20 people for whom the Bay Area is their first choice, some years it is more, and then you have to bid those offices near the top of your list.

FYI, ties are essential for NorCal, especially with median grades.

[Anonymous User]

When you bid multiple offices of a firm and get an interview for one of the offices, can the firm see the other office(s) you bid?