2011 Top 50 Go-To Law Schools Forum

[FlightoftheEarls]

Class of 2010 was not the new normal, it was the just the old almost-normal, post-no-offer extravaganza.

Class of 2011 was probably as close as we'll find to the rock bottom, as the various markets were still adjusting and in various stages of decline/recovery, and many schools had no idea which markets to be bidding on (target/avoid NYC? Neglect primaries for secondaries? Chicago didn't crash as hard? ZOMG what to do!?!). If this data is scary, just wait for what you see next year.

Class of 2012 (my class) is probably the first time a class was able to approach OCI with a mild idea of what ITE hiring was looking like, both in terms of markets and estimated class sizes. After watching C/O 2011 get blindsided at OCI, C/O 2012 at least had a chance to prepare for the worst and should be a very slight improvement over C/O 2011. While class sizes at most firms stayed the same as 2011, a fair number increased slightly to what many of them are describing as their "new SA size."

I think most of us who have been through this process would consider C/O 2012 data to actually be the new normal, so you all will have to wait a solid 2 years for that data. That's the reason the C/O 2010 data does not mean all that much.

[FlightoftheEarls]

My opinion is that while the bottom out year(s) will be the worst, we'll only see slight improvement. I don't think we're going back to pre-ITE hiring anytime soon. Class of 2010/11 may end up being the worst in absolute terms, but I think that hiring for the next few classes will look more like 2010/11 than 2006/07.

Also, this is what I meant by the "new SA size." This is a pretty widespread view among hiring partners at a lot of these firms, and I am equally interested in seeing if they hold to this. On the one hand, no firm wants to get back to what has been characterized as "reckless" hiring. Many people are suggesting that the model is shifting to a smaller core of "more qualified" attorneys and the use of contract attorneys to fill in the gaps. On the other hand, a few firms last OCI were already taking 3Ls because they had under hired after the economy had sprung back in certain sectors. Firms are notorious for being overeager in good times and overcautious in bad times, and it's possible that firms will have a need for 80+ person classes in the next 5 years. Like I said, it'll be very interesting to see how it changes things.

[keg411]

I don't think anyone expects it to look like 2006/2007; especially in secondary markets where the cuts may be more permanent (this is probably every non-NYC/DC market and DC is already insanely competitive). I do think things for this year's OCI will be a hair better than last years, especially since most of the deferrals have been cleared out (which was, IMO, the biggest reason for the drastic C/O 2011 cuts). Like last year, striking out vs. getting a SA for borderline people is going to depend a LOT on target markets and bidding strategy.

[beach_terror]

Oh hey, my shitty school is still a T40 when it comes to biglawl placement.

[clone22]

On slightly more positive news:
http://www.lawjobs.com/newsandviews/Law ... hbxlogin=1

Biglaw seems to be picking up hiring again. Although summer 2011 hiring won't be anywhere near pre-recession levels, it's off the recent (abysmal) lows.
Also: --LinkRemoved--
Seems to indicate that on net, 30% of the firms are seeking to hire more attorneys. Slowly but surely this market should turn around. (then again, this is 0L's wishful thinking)

[stratocophic]

Dear LULSTL,

ND: 20% NLJ SECURE
WUSTL: T19 (LOL) SECURE

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 3&t=123174



Numbers in that thread are meaningless till we get the data in 2 years, but my inclination is that you should enjoy it while you can.

[Kswizzie]

Guess its bye bye to all that T-12 nonsense

[Trequartista]

Guess its bye bye to all that T-12 nonsense

T-13?

[rundoxierun]

Maybe. A lot of people are convinced the Class of 2010 numbers are the "new normal." Plenty of informed posters on this board are convinced this is what legal hiring is going to look like for the foreseeable future.

My opinion is that while the bottom out year(s) will be the worst, we'll only see slight improvement. I don't think we're going back to pre-ITE hiring anytime soon. Class of 2010/11 may end up being the worst in absolute terms, but I think that hiring for the next few classes will look more like 2010/11 than 2006/07.

There are also signs that *could* be interpreted as long term corrections in the marketplace. It is generally accepted that more and more clients are pushing back against 1st year associates, applications for law schools are down, a couple of schools are holding the line on tuition, and it seems like some law schools are shrinking the size of their classes (with one openly admitting it). At my school, the most recent entering class is about 40 students smaller than normal.

It doesnt matter how "informed" these posters are. They have absolutely no clue. Biglaw partners barely have a clue for godsake. All you can say is that you have seen certain things that could possibly point to a certain conclusion. At the end of day, none of us have the info to be anything more than clueless.

[FiveSermon]

Cornell ftw.

[dr123]

Yale = T15?

[Ikki]

Cornell ftw.

+100000000

[SupraVln180]

This is scary. Would the consensus be, considerable scholly at a school ranked 20-30, over Lower T14 at sticker?

[FiveSermon]

This is scary. Would the consensus be, considerable scholly at a school ranked 20-30, over Lower T14 at sticker?

Unless that lower t14 is Cornell?

[theturkeyisfat]

what's the deal with UT? everyone says it places really well in texas and that it is therefore a solid option if you want to settle in texas. according to this list, though, they didn't place too well into "big law." are there a lot of other options (besides biglaw) that would help a ut law graduate pay off a big debt load? and would it be crazy to turn down a similar offer at vandy to go to ut?

[lawfreak]

When is the next time usnews will come out with rankings?

[dakatz]

This is scary. Would the consensus be, considerable scholly at a school ranked 20-30, over Lower T14 at sticker?

Depends on the T20-30 school that you are talking about, but this path is becoming more and more credited as these new figures come out.

[Helmholtz]

Guess its bye bye to all that T-12 nonsense

I don't understand....

T14 minus Duke & GULC seems reasonable enough to me.

[FiveSermon]

Guess its bye bye to all that T-12 nonsense

I don't understand....

T14 minus Duke & GULC seems reasonable enough to me.

Oh no you didn't. Bottom T14 status has been traditionally reserved for Cornell+Gtown. Cornell will be mad.

[BCLS]

So besides the T14 and UCLA, BC has the best NJL250 placement. Cool

[beachbum]

Guess its bye bye to all that T-12 nonsense

I don't understand....

T14 minus Duke & GULC seems reasonable enough to me.

T11. Yale has no business being lumped in with the elite schools.

[dakatz]

Then we might as well call it the T0. No one deserves to be in the top echelon. Thats an exclusive club with a membership of zero.

[PomasThynchon]

Then we might as well call it the T0. No one deserves to be in the top echelon. Thats an exclusive club with a membership of zero.

LMFAO!

[whitman]

Sadly, yes: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=148172

Everyone tried to slap some sense into the kid, but it didn't work.

That is one of the most depressing things I've read in a while.

There are ways to respectively give advice, and these are not them.

[PomasThynchon]

Sadly, yes: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=148172

Everyone tried to slap some sense into the kid, but it didn't work.

That is one of the most depressing things I've read in a while.

There are ways to respectively give advice, and these are not them.

How does one not give respective advice? Did rad law and FiveSermon et al give other people's advice?