School OCI Data Forum

[Xnegd]

Still no hard data on Davis? Crazy. I've e-mailed a few students I know to ask, and a couple awesome posters on here have been super awesome and pmed me, but still I'd like some hard data.

Anyone know any info on how OCI works for transferring students? e.g. (in a perfect world) if someone were to transfer to UCLA or Berkeley? The advanced forum search isn't working right now, so I can't check to see previous answers to this question.

p.s. Thanks for that list, that is awesome!

[Anonymous User]

Still no hard data on Davis? Crazy. I've e-maield a few students I kow to ask, and a couple posters on here have been super awesome and pmed me, but still I'd like some hard data.

Anyone know any info on how OCI works for transferring students? e.g. (in a perfect world) if someone were to transfer to UCLA or Berkeley? The advanced forum search isn't working right now, so I can't check to see previous answers to this question.

+1 Interested as well!

[Anonymous User]

UVA has 169 unique employers and 563 offices coming to campus.

[Anonymous User]

Catholic U:

22 OCI; 21 Resume Collect; 11 New Hampshire Interview Program; 6 Boston Interview Program

Down significantly.

[myrockyourrock911]

Can any Berkeley or UPenn students share info? I'm WLed a tboth but want to be informed just in case

[General Tso]

Still no hard data on Davis? Crazy. I've e-maield a few students I kow to ask, and a couple posters on here have been super awesome and pmed me, but still I'd like some hard data.

Anyone know any info on how OCI works for transferring students? e.g. (in a perfect world) if someone were to transfer to UCLA or Berkeley? The advanced forum search isn't working right now, so I can't check to see previous answers to this question.

+1 Interested as well!

+1000

none of the Davis regulars are talking...shame too, since many prospects are making decisions

[Mickey Quicknumbers]

ATL ran a timely article on Emory this past week; it's caught a lot of attention:

http://abovethelaw.com/2010/07/emory-la ... need-jobs/

[Anonymous User]

For those of us who don't want to look through this thread and like to compare/contrast, keeping in mind class sizes vary, some #s may include multiple rounds of OCI, etc etc, thus far:

GW - The number of entries lies at 174, but there are several entries I've seen that have 8-9 offices listed for a single entry. 20-30 interview slots say "patent only" or "must be patent bar eligible"

Edit: GW has ~121 unique employers at OCI (some do have the multiple bid options, but theres only like to firms with more than 5 or so--if you add the regional programs, its closer to 130-40 unique employers). Many bid options include a footnote with something like "no multiple interviews" which means that the OCI interviewer represents multiple offices. Oh, and yes, theres over 30 interview slots that are for "science/technical degrees" only.

[Anonymous User]

More concrete NU information:

155 employers.
-4 government employers.
- 33 multi-office listings.
= 118 unique law firm employers.

I don't believe these numbers include resume collects. Still, not great numbers but it could be WAY worse given ITE.

[doomed123]

Georgetown - 467 offices at Georgetown.

So does no one have data for individual employers at Georgetown?

[Anonymous User]

Can any Berkeley or UPenn students share info? I'm WLed a tboth but want to be informed just in case

UCB has ~140 distinct employers and 233 line-items on the OCI spreadsheet. Some of the employers with single entries are interviewing for "firm-wide" or "nation-wide" positions so who knows how many offices we're talking about. (Giving a conservative "5" offices to those, it somes to 523 offices, with some duplication on IP or Tax only listings that I'm not interested in breaking out). Probably a more important metric is 4941 2L interview slots (>16 slots per 2L if our class size goes up by 10 counting transfers and 100% participate).

These numbers do not include quite a few resume-collection listings.

[Anonymous User]

More concrete NU information:

155 employers.
-4 government employers.
- 33 multi-office listings.
= 118 unique law firm employers.

I don't believe these numbers include resume collects. Still, not great numbers but it could be WAY worse given ITE.

No resume collects. We allegedly had 800 offices in 2008 OCI (probs including resume collect, multi offices, PI/etc) but no way we have even half that many this year.

[on_ne_sait_jamais]

More concrete NU information:

155 employers.
-4 government employers.
- 33 multi-office listings.
= 118 unique law firm employers.

I don't believe these numbers include resume collects. Still, not great numbers but it could be WAY worse given ITE.

No resume collects. We allegedly had 800 offices in 2008 OCI (probs including resume collect, multi offices, PI/etc) but no way we have even half that many this year.

Numbers not totally correct b/c the 155 doesn't include the unique firms at the regional recruitment also. Nonetheless, there are a few firms which have traditionally recruited from NU which aren't bothering to make the trip.

[miamiman]

More concrete NU information:

155 employers.
-4 government employers.
- 33 multi-office listings.
= 118 unique law firm employers.

I don't believe these numbers include resume collects. Still, not great numbers but it could be WAY worse given ITE.

No resume collects. We allegedly had 800 offices in 2008 OCI (probs including resume collect, multi offices, PI/etc) but no way we have even half that many this year.

Numbers not totally correct b/c the 155 doesn't include the unique firms at the regional recruitment also. Nonetheless, there are a few firms which have traditionally recruited from NU which aren't bothering to make the trip.

which firms

[jchoggan]

Georgetown - 467 offices at Georgetown.

So does no one have data for individual employers at Georgetown?

The original listing of non-IP firms had about 110 individual employers on the list. A few firms have been added or removed since then, and some have removed or added just an office or two, but that number is about right. I'm not sure how many IP firms there are, or how these numbers compare to previous years.

Edit: there are 72 lines/offices represented for IP at GULC OCI. I haven't counted the number of individual employers there are, but I'm guessing around 20-25.

[Anonymous User]

I trolled a few law firm sites, and here's where they report they're recruiting. Feel free to update or correct. I tried to put them in rough USNWR ranking but I was too lazy to do it very well outside the top 20. I didn't parse out remote job fairs from on-campus.

CRAVATH: T14, Texas, BC, BU, Fordham, BYU, Howard

http://www.cravath.com/interviewschedule/

SKADDEN: T14, UCLA, Texas, Vanderbilt, USC, GWU, Notre Dame, BU, BC, W&L, Fordham, UConn, Tulane, Loyola Los Angeles, American, Houston, Temple, Villanova, Howard, Widener

http://www.skadden.com/recruiting/recru ... lView=list

DEBEVOISE: T14 (minus Northwestern), Texas, WUSTL, Fordham, Tulane, Cardozo, Brooklyn, NYLS, Rutgers, St. John's, Howard

--LinkRemoved--

WILLIAMS & CONNOLLY: T14 (minus NYU, Cornell, & Berkeley), Texas.

http://www.wc.com/careers-summer-schedule.html

LATHAM: T14, UCLA, Texas, USC, GWU, Notre Dame, Illinois, Fordham, Hastings, USD, Loyola Los Angeles, Houston, Howard, Irvine.

http://www.lw.com/Careers.aspx?page=Car ... Interviews

MAYER BROWN: T14 (minus Cornell), UCLA, Texas, USC, Illinois, Hastings, UNC, Wake, Loyola Los Angeles, Howard, Houston.

--LinkRemoved--

JONES DAY: T14, UCLA, Texas, Vanderbilt, USC, WUSTL, GWU, Notre Dame, Illinois, W&L, Minnesota, Indiana, Fordham, Emory, Hastings, Davis, UNC, Wisconsin, Georgia, Georgia State, Ohio State, Tulane, Loyola Los Angeles, Case Western, Catholic, American, Maryland, Cardozo, Pitt, Santa Clara, SMU, Houston, Cleveland State, Howard, Irvine.

http://www.jonesdaycareers.com/offices/ ... bsection=1

[romothesavior]

Really strange to see some of the schools where these elite firms recruit. Makes you wonder why they go there but not to some of the much higher ranked schools.

[Anonymous User]

Really strange to see some of the schools where these elite firms recruit. Makes you wonder why they go there but not to some of the much higher ranked schools.

...because law firm views of prestige differ from the USNWR calculation of rankings. Big schools fare better than small schools; old schools fare better than new schools; schools in a city with that firm fare better than schools outside that city.

[romothesavior]

Really strange to see some of the schools where these elite firms recruit. Makes you wonder why they go there but not to some of the much higher ranked schools.

...because law firm views of prestige differ from the USNWR calculation of rankings. Big schools fare better than small schools; old schools fare better than new schools; schools in a city with that firm fare better than schools outside that city.

Yeah I get that, but there are still some head-scratchers. Like, Debevoise comes to WUSTL, but not NW? And why would they interview at Tulane? I'm sure there are reasons for it and I'm not saying it is wrong (clearly brekaing from USNWR is a good thing), but I just find it interesting.

[JusticeHarlan]

Really strange to see some of the schools where these elite firms recruit. Makes you wonder why they go there but not to some of the much higher ranked schools.

Without knowing which firms and which schools you are referring to, it's often based on where certain firms have satellite branches. Skadden has a Boston office, for example, hence BC and BU but not higher or comparably ranked midwestern schools, where they have less of a presence. Temple, Nova, and Widener are probably for their Wilmington branch, etc. I'm curious about Cravath at BC, though, as I don't think their website indicates they have a single attorney from there (that is, it's not an option on the drag down menu on their attorney search function).

Oh, and great work in this thread everyone, keep it up.

[HAMBONE]

Really strange to see some of the schools where these elite firms recruit. Makes you wonder why they go there but not to some of the much higher ranked schools.

...because law firm views of prestige differ from the USNWR calculation of rankings. Big schools fare better than small schools; old schools fare better than new schools; schools in a city with that firm fare better than schools outside that city.

Yeah I get that, but there are still some head-scratchers. Like, Debevoise comes to WUSTL, but not NW? And why would they interview at Tulane? I'm sure there are reasons for it and I'm not saying it is wrong (clearly brekaing from USNWR is a good thing), but I just find it interesting.

Debevoise doesn't come to WUSTL or Tulane. These schools participate in an off-campus interview program in NYC along with Vanderbilt. This allows the firm to maintain a relationship with these schools while not spending their money in sending recruiters to these schools. Once in a while they may hire an exceptional student from these schools. I am sure other elite firms participate in similar off campus programs

[romothesavior]

Really strange to see some of the schools where these elite firms recruit. Makes you wonder why they go there but not to some of the much higher ranked schools.

...because law firm views of prestige differ from the USNWR calculation of rankings. Big schools fare better than small schools; old schools fare better than new schools; schools in a city with that firm fare better than schools outside that city.

Yeah I get that, but there are still some head-scratchers. Like, Debevoise comes to WUSTL, but not NW? And why would they interview at Tulane? I'm sure there are reasons for it and I'm not saying it is wrong (clearly brekaing from USNWR is a good thing), but I just find it interesting.

Debevoise doesn't come to WUSTL or Tulane. These schools participate in an off-campus interview program in NYC along with Vanderbilt. This allows the firm to maintain a relationship with these schools while not spending their money in sending recruiters to these schools. Once in a while they may hire an exceptional student from these schools. I am sure other elite firms participate in similar off campus programs

Are these schools counted in OCI numbers?

[Xnegd]

Does anyone know that OCI numbers for Univ. Washington?

[romothesavior]

Just got a great PM re: OCI data. The person who sent it to me didn't want to post it, but told me I could, so here you go:

It's murky. It's very hard to pin down "how many firms are coming to OCI."

I've trolled around my school's data, and here are all of the variables you have to contend with:

1) Different rounds of OCI have different weight. In boom times but even now, firms get competitive (shock) and want the best students. Schools are also competitive and want their students 'aired' before firms first. That pushed OCI back further and further. It used to be mid to late fall, now it's the end of summer and before classes at almost all top schools. Harvard was one of the last to push their data back and got burned, because firms were 'filling up' on other schools. Anyway, the result is that if a firm is making the trip to a school's first OCI, it is much more meaningful than if it's going to a later OCI. Almost all schools have at least two rounds.

2) Different firms send recruiters with different purposes. Some send a recruiter to, say, 10 schools looking for 4 candidates. Any given school where nobody was hired might spin that as "they only pay us lip services" - but really to a firm, their thinking is going to be much less based on specific schools and more on cost/benefit of how many candidates they get to screen, regardless of their impression of the caliber of student from any given school.

3) It costs literally nothing to appear on symplicity as collecting resumes (ok, firms actually probably do pay a nominal fee...). And it's no better or more likely to result in a job than a mass-mail, so I don't know why people mention that.

4) Firms that have multiple offices often claim to be interviewing for all or most of them, but even if that's not an out and out lie, satellite offices tend to be quite small and have different preferences for students. The Miami office of MLB might be 'interviewing' at 20 schools, but I doubt they hire near 20 associates - and many will be coming from local schools rather tan the T14 circuit. But again, firms have a big incentive to keep their ear on the ground.

5) Firms hire different numbers from different schools. Columbia in boom times sends (no joke) dozens to each of the V10 firms. That's their model: A few very fancy NYC firms hire deeply into their class. Those same firms will absolutely hire Virginia grads, but not in nearly the same number. On the flip side, more firms will be interested in Virginia grads, and the elite DC firms might be more interested in DC grads than Columbia grads. So each school relies on "number of firms" differently. Columbia could have 30 firms at OCI and place half their class. WUSTL could have 200 firms at OCI and place less than half. So looking at just 'unique firms at the earliest possible OCI" still comes up short.

6) Then there are 'off campus' programs. I know Virginia and Duke have one in TX and one in LA. I know GW has one in NYC as do many midwestern schools. These are definitely less 'profitable' than real OCI, but probably better than resume drops. Nobody really knows.

In short, it's hard to marshall all of this data. It's interesting to see it, but I worry that some people are getting the wrong impression about things. I know a year ago this all would have been greek to me - firm hiring is very nuanced. It wasn't until halfway through my first year that I even really appreciated just how bad the Vault rankings were. I knew they were imperfect and imprecise, but it was shocking once I realized just how unimpressive being a V10 firm is unless you are doing corporate transactional work in NYC or how awful the rankings are for other cities (the most selective, desirable, prestigious, etc. DC firms are with one exception scattered haphazardly between V10 and V25)

[miamiman]

^^^ great post.