ITE, Size Matters Forum

[im_blue]

Let's do this data in a better way.

The top 10 markets:

Code: Select all

City	Attorneys	Change	Change (%)
NYC    27374     -2037      -7
CHI    18433     -873       -5
DC     12108     -162       -1
PHIL   7000      -413       -6
BST    4826      -104       -2
LA     4432      -106       -2
ATL    4150      -234       -6
SF     3747      -22        -1
HST    3080      -176       -6
DAL    2551      -161       -6

I'm surprised to see 1-2% decreases in CA. I thought their economy dropped off a cliff, and so did OCI at Berkeley/UCLA. CA firms also tend to look for local ties, so it would seem at first glance that hiring for those grads wouldn't be in as bad shape as the rest of the country. Am I missing something here?

[underdawg]

Let's do this data in a better way.

The top 10 markets:

Code: Select all

City	Attorneys	Change	Change (%)
NYC    27374     -2037      -7
CHI    18433     -873       -5
DC     12108     -162       -1
PHIL   7000      -413       -6
BST    4826      -104       -2
LA     4432      -106       -2
ATL    4150      -234       -6
SF     3747      -22        -1
HST    3080      -176       -6
DAL    2551      -161       -6

I'm surprised to see 1-2% decreases in CA. I thought their economy dropped off a cliff, and so did OCI at Berkeley/UCLA. CA firms also tend to look for local ties, so it would seem at first glance that hiring for those grads wouldn't be in as bad shape as the rest of the country. Am I missing something here?

well i'm sure firms would rather cut summer class hiring than lay people off maybe? so there could be a 1% layoff but a 60% decrease in hiring...

[RVP11]

Let's do this data in a better way.

The top 10 markets:

Code: Select all

City	Attorneys	Change	Change (%)
NYC    27374     -2037      -7
CHI    18433     -873       -5
DC     12108     -162       -1
PHIL   7000      -413       -6
BST    4826      -104       -2
LA     4432      -106       -2
ATL    4150      -234       -6
SF     3747      -22        -1
HST    3080      -176       -6
DAL    2551      -161       -6

I'm surprised to see 1-2% decreases in CA. I thought their economy dropped off a cliff, and so did OCI at Berkeley/UCLA. CA firms also tend to look for local ties, so it would seem at first glance that hiring for those grads wouldn't be in as bad shape as the rest of the country. Am I missing something here?

FWIW, the two people I know at UVA who placed a lot of their OGI bids on CA firms were very happy with their decision. Those who bid on DC weren't as thrilled, apparently, to put it mildly. And the DC people had equal or better grades, to my knowledge.

[underdawg]

i hear different about ca but with anecdotal evidence, i'm sure we could find the answer

also i'm sure the chart doesn't account for deferrals and what not too. between deferrals, no-offering, reducing summer classes, cold-offering, laying off is really the last resort!!

[rayiner]

Remember, this is just NLJ250 data, and organized by where the firm is *headquartered*. So layoffs at a CA office in an NY firm are counted against NY's column. This is important because a lot of the biglaw firms in CA are not NLJ250, and the ones that are often are not headquartered there.

[dresden doll]

Remember, this is just NLJ250 data, and organized by where the firm is *headquartered*. So layoffs at a CA office in an NY firm are counted against NY's column. This is important because a lot of the biglaw firms in CA are not NLJ250, and the ones that are often are not headquartered there.

^This.

[CE2JD]

i hear different about ca but with anecdotal evidence, i'm sure we could find the answer

also i'm sure the chart doesn't account for deferrals and what not too. between deferrals, no-offering, reducing summer classes, cold-offering, laying off is really the last resort!!

or maybe people in california just think that all new yorkers are fucking douche bags (assuming most of your evidence comes from NYU-related experiences)

[dresden doll]

You know, I clicked on this thread expecting a nice penis joke. OP depressed me a little.

[rayiner]

You know, I clicked on this thread expecting a nice penis.

[rondemarino]

Remember, this is just NLJ250 data, and organized by where the firm is *headquartered*. So layoffs at a CA office in an NY firm are counted against NY's column. This is important because a lot of the biglaw firms in CA are not NLJ250, and the ones that are often are not headquartered there.

+1.

CA's legal market is a little weird. Few things to consider (and I'm not sure how they fit together)

(1) CA has A LOT of boutique firms that pay at the $160k scale.

(2) Heller and Thelen imploded. Lots of CA attorneys were absorbed into other firms in the last couple of years.

(3) Dotcom bust KILLED the CA legal market. Remember Brobeck? The clowns who mused about going public and bought national airtime on CNN? Its possible CA is still recovering from that mess.

(4) A lot of east coast firms started offices in SoCal over the last 4-5 years, but the increase in work they were expecting from biotech work never materialized.

If anyone knows why (or if) OCI was really bad at Boalt and UCLA, I'd love to know too.

[rondemarino]

You know, I clicked on this thread expecting a nice penis joke. OP depressed me a little.

(link)

Hope that helps.

[dresden doll]

You know, I clicked on this thread expecting a nice penis joke. OP depressed me a little.

(link)

Hope that helps.

<3

[pany1985]

Philly is that high up on the list of legal markets?

[RVP11]

Philly is that high up on the list of legal markets?

As explained above, it's based on the HQ of firms, not the actual # of BigLaw attorneys in each city?

[ziggysmarley]

If anyone knows why (or if) OCI was really bad at Boalt and UCLA, I'd love to know too.

I didn't think OCI was bad at UCLA, at least considering the economy. I got a ton of callbacks and multiple offers, and I know a good amount of students in the same boat. It wasn't as easy as prior years to get a job, but I don't think anyone expected it to be...

[pany1985]

Philly is that high up on the list of legal markets?

As explained above, it's based on the HQ of firms, not the actual # of BigLaw attorneys in each city?

Yeah, I got that, but even with that being the criteria for ranking I'm surprised it's got more than Boston and L.A.

[underdawg]

i hear different about ca but with anecdotal evidence, i'm sure we could find the answer

also i'm sure the chart doesn't account for deferrals and what not too. between deferrals, no-offering, reducing summer classes, cold-offering, laying off is really the last resort!!

or maybe people in california just think that all new yorkers are fucking douche bags (assuming most of your evidence comes from NYU-related experiences)

oh rite, everyone at nyu is from nyc

or is the nyc taint so bad it won't even wash off a CAer??!

[im_blue]

If anyone knows why (or if) OCI was really bad at Boalt and UCLA, I'd love to know too.

I didn't think OCI was bad at UCLA, at least considering the economy. I got a ton of callbacks and multiple offers, and I know a good amount of students in the same boat. It wasn't as easy as prior years to get a job, but I don't think anyone expected it to be...

What's your estimate of the class rank cutoff for offers, both now and in prior years?

[CE2JD]

i hear different about ca but with anecdotal evidence, i'm sure we could find the answer

also i'm sure the chart doesn't account for deferrals and what not too. between deferrals, no-offering, reducing summer classes, cold-offering, laying off is really the last resort!!

or maybe people in california just think that all new yorkers are fucking douche bags (assuming most of your evidence comes from NYU-related experiences)

oh rite, everyone at nyu is from nyc

or is the nyc taint so bad it won't even wash off a CAer??!

The taint of having "New York" in the name of your law school has doomed your hopes forever on the West Coast.

[ziggysmarley]

If anyone knows why (or if) OCI was really bad at Boalt and UCLA, I'd love to know too.

I didn't think OCI was bad at UCLA, at least considering the economy. I got a ton of callbacks and multiple offers, and I know a good amount of students in the same boat. It wasn't as easy as prior years to get a job, but I don't think anyone expected it to be...

What's your estimate of the class rank cutoff for offers, both now and in prior years?

To be honest, I have no idea. UCLA doesn't give out rankings, so everything is a guess... all you really know is the curve (3.2 is supposed to be median) and the GPA suggested cut-offs listed by the firms (most were 3.3). I have to imagine that you had to be above median to get an offer this year at pretty much all schools.

[FrankReynolds]

I have to imagine that you had to be above median to get an offer this year at pretty much all schools.

IMO median didn't have much to do with results
top 1/3 had it pretty well
middle 2/3s were all roughly in the same boat
bottom 1/3 pretty screwed

[James Bond]

My theory about the complete idiocy of accepting a firm job in NYC is confirmed.

TITCR