Do lawyers have vacations? Forum

[Anonymous User]

are lawyers allowed to have families?

[Philo38]

So in fact,you have only 1 week of vacation?I guess teaching the law is better than practicing if I can make 100k a year.

Do you go to YHS? If not, I'm afraid to say your chances of academia are slim to none.

EDIT: that was harsh, sorry.

I doubt legal teaching is for you if the sole determining factor is the amount of vacation. I mean, if you want vacation time be a sales person at REI or something. If you want a career that doesn't take that much of a time commitment than you probably shouldn't go to law school . . .

Hell, teach 8th graders history. Than you get tones of vacations.

You're right.I am interested in law,but if I have to almost kill myself to satisfy the billable hours,I'd rather live a meaningful life with less money.And by the way,law school professors make a good fortune,right?

A small fortune? No. Some of them make a good deal and most make more than the average professor but your missing the point. They don't want you. No offense, but they dont want professors who are there because they want to avoid work. If you want to become a law professor you will still hate your job if it isn't motivated by love of legal academia.

Legal teaching jobs are VERY hard to get. The majority of law professors come from top 5 law schools. It isn't exactly an easy career.

I agree you are better off living a life that is meaningful to you rather than just following the one that pays the best; but, when you approach a life changing career decision your first criteria shouldn't be vacation time. Especially not if you want to have a sucessful legal career. In fact, from what I've seen so far most of the people who look at the law the way you seem to are the ones who do end up in the crappy firm jobs.

A law degree is a good degree but the way I see it it isn't really worth it if your looking for the job that pays well, and requires less effort. Go be a doctor.

[Merrill]

No firm outside the V20 is worth that... delaying a wedding can involve huge sunk costs and loss of good will not to mention the message it sends to your significant other.

On the bright side, early marriages are most susceptible to divorce, so maybe that year and a half delay prevented a marriage that would have been a messy divorce soon after.

[Drake014]

So in fact,you have only 1 week of vacation?I guess teaching the law is better than practicing if I can make 100k a year.

Do you go to YHS? If not, I'm afraid to say your chances of academia are slim to none.

EDIT: that was harsh, sorry.

I doubt legal teaching is for you if the sole determining factor is the amount of vacation. I mean, if you want vacation time be a sales person at REI or something. If you want a career that doesn't take that much of a time commitment than you probably shouldn't go to law school . . .

Hell, teach 8th graders history. Than you get tones of vacations.

You're right.I am interested in law,but if I have to almost kill myself to satisfy the billable hours,I'd rather live a meaningful life with less money.And by the way,law school professors make a good fortune,right?

Or you could just work at a small to mid size firm like most lawyers.

[Drake014]

Do you go to YHS? If not, I'm afraid to say your chances of academia are slim to none.

EDIT: that was harsh, sorry.

I doubt legal teaching is for you if the sole determining factor is the amount of vacation. I mean, if you want vacation time be a sales person at REI or something. If you want a career that doesn't take that much of a time commitment than you probably shouldn't go to law school . . .

Hell, teach 8th graders history. Than you get tones of vacations.

You're right.I am interested in law,but if I have to almost kill myself to satisfy the billable hours,I'd rather live a meaningful life with less money.And by the way,law school professors make a good fortune,right?

A small fortune? No. Some of them make a good deal and most make more than the average professor but your missing the point. They don't want you. No offense, but they dont want professors who are there because they want to avoid work. If you want to become a law professor you will still hate your job if it isn't motivated by love of legal academia.

Legal teaching jobs are VERY hard to get. The majority of law professors come from top 5 law schools. It isn't exactly an easy career.

I agree you are better off living a life that is meaningful to you rather than just following the one that pays the best; but, when you approach a life changing career decision your first criteria shouldn't be vacation time. Especially not if you want to have a sucessful legal career. In fact, from what I've seen so far most of the people who look at the law the way you seem to are the ones who do end up in the crappy firm jobs.

A law degree is a good degree but the way I see it it isn't really worth it if your looking for the job that pays well, and requires less effort. Go be a doctor.

What you've seen so far as someone who hasn't even entered into law school?

[reasonable_man]

This entire post is ridiculous. Lawyers can take vacations and do take vacations. If a lawyer reschedules her wedding (or even a big vacation), then that reflects poorly on the individuals involved: either the lawyer who can't schedule appropriately re: taking a vacation during a non-super busy time in their caseload, plan ahead and find another lawyer to cover, etc or the firm/department head/partner being an asshole. Biglaw rarely involves the type of "chain yourself to your desk for 24 hours a day, day-in, day-out" type mentality that naive law students perpetuate on these boards.

And I think the OP is a flame.

OKKKK lol.

[helfer snooterbagon]

This entire post is ridiculous. Lawyers can take vacations and do take vacations. If a lawyer reschedules her wedding (or even a big vacation), then that reflects poorly on the individuals involved: either the lawyer who can't schedule appropriately re: taking a vacation during a non-super busy time in their caseload, plan ahead and find another lawyer to cover, etc or the firm/department head/partner being an asshole. Biglaw rarely involves the type of "chain yourself to your desk for 24 hours a day, day-in, day-out" type mentality that naive law students perpetuate on these boards.

And I think the OP is a flame.

So what does Big-Law involve then? Why the hell would they pay you so well if they did not expect super long hours? Every dollar that the partners pay the associates is less money that is available at the end of the year to split between the partners. The partners are not paying you the big bucks because of your brilliant legal insight. Clients who are paying a firm upwards of $500 an hour expect that the firm will always be available. If the partner is always available, then you will always be available.

[Pearalegal]

This entire post is ridiculous. Lawyers can take vacations and do take vacations. If a lawyer reschedules her wedding (or even a big vacation), then that reflects poorly on the individuals involved: either the lawyer who can't schedule appropriately re: taking a vacation during a non-super busy time in their caseload, plan ahead and find another lawyer to cover, etc or the firm/department head/partner being an asshole. Biglaw rarely involves the type of "chain yourself to your desk for 24 hours a day, day-in, day-out" type mentality that naive law students perpetuate on these boards.

And I think the OP is a flame.

So what does Big-Law involve then? Why the hell would they pay you so well if they did not expect super long hours? Every dollar that the partners pay the associates is less money that is available at the end of the year to split between the partners. The partners are not paying you the big bucks because of your brilliant legal insight. Clients who are paying a firm upwards of $500 an hour expect that the firm will always be available. If the partner is always available, then you will always be available.

Lol. Who are you? First of all, you're low balling how much a client pays by an insane amount. Second of all, though big law does pay well, its hardly some outrageous salary that makes people into zombies.

My attorneys, even the young associates, are almost always out of the office by 7. V20 firm.

The person you were quoting has it much closer than you.

[helfer snooterbagon]

Thanks for helping me unfuck myself.

[ScaredWorkedBored]

There's no need to argue over the math or what billable hours targets involve re: vacation because Yale Career Services already did that:

http://www.law.yale.edu/documents/pdf/C ... e_hour.pdf

You can hit a 2000 hours target working 47 weeks a year if you work 60 hour weeks and the hours are even and you make 70% of your "work" time billable. So if you do that and are allowed/able to take holidays and vacation, you can get your vacation and your target.

The catch is that those assumptions on efficiency are unrealistic for office work, particularly for new lawyers. Which the Yale piece acknowledges by saying these are mathematical minimums. They don't account for office chat, "development" hours, training, or the inevitable non-billable 40 hour "assignment."

Any "goal" of 2200+ for bonus or being a "superstar" associate reasons pretty much eliminates your vacation prospects entirely. That's adding at least another month of full work hours. And you were at 47 weeks worked already, sooo...

[Philo38]

"What you've seen so far as someone who hasn't even entered into law school?"

What I've seen so far as someone who has worked in three law firms over the last four years, yes. I realize I'm not a 60 year old lawyer that is why I added the "from what I've seen so far" part. Clearly.

[ziggysmarley]

There's no need to argue over the math or what billable hours targets involve re: vacation because Yale Career Services already did that:

http://www.law.yale.edu/documents/pdf/C ... e_hour.pdf

You can hit a 2000 hours target working 47 weeks a year if you work 60 hour weeks and the hours are even and you make 70% of your "work" time billable. So if you do that and are allowed/able to take holidays and vacation, you can get your vacation and your target.

The catch is that those assumptions on efficiency are unrealistic for office work, particularly for new lawyers. Which the Yale piece acknowledges by saying these are mathematical minimums. They don't account for office chat, "development" hours, training, or the inevitable non-billable 40 hour "assignment."

Any "goal" of 2200+ for bonus or being a "superstar" associate reasons pretty much eliminates your vacation prospects entirely. That's adding at least another month of full work hours. And you were at 47 weeks worked already, sooo...

What you're forgetting is that some weeks you'll work 60 weeks, and then every so often you'll work 80 or 100 hours for a week to get a deadline done. Still able to take a vacation.

[paratactical]

.

[jrwhitedog]

There's no need to argue over the math or what billable hours targets involve re: vacation because Yale Career Services already did that:

http://www.law.yale.edu/documents/pdf/C ... e_hour.pdf

You can hit a 2000 hours target working 47 weeks a year if you work 60 hour weeks and the hours are even and you make 70% of your "work" time billable. So if you do that and are allowed/able to take holidays and vacation, you can get your vacation and your target.

The catch is that those assumptions on efficiency are unrealistic for office work, particularly for new lawyers. Which the Yale piece acknowledges by saying these are mathematical minimums. They don't account for office chat, "development" hours, training, or the inevitable non-billable 40 hour "assignment."

Any "goal" of 2200+ for bonus or being a "superstar" associate reasons pretty much eliminates your vacation prospects entirely. That's adding at least another month of full work hours. And you were at 47 weeks worked already, sooo...

That makes sense.But there seems to be a different way to calculate the billable hours.According to AveryIndex, you can get 39.3 billable hours if you work 50 hours a week.http://www.averyindex.com/shortest_hours.php

[jrwhitedog]

In my experience, 2000 hours is low for a first year. You will not make partner at that level, at least not in the V50.

Is the more billable hours the only factor to make you a partner?

[ziggysmarley]

This entire post is ridiculous. Lawyers can take vacations and do take vacations. If a lawyer reschedules her wedding (or even a big vacation), then that reflects poorly on the individuals involved: either the lawyer who can't schedule appropriately re: taking a vacation during a non-super busy time in their caseload, plan ahead and find another lawyer to cover, etc or the firm/department head/partner being an asshole. Biglaw rarely involves the type of "chain yourself to your desk for 24 hours a day, day-in, day-out" type mentality that naive law students perpetuate on these boards.

And I think the OP is a flame.

So what does Big-Law involve then? Why the hell would they pay you so well if they did not expect super long hours? Every dollar that the partners pay the associates is less money that is available at the end of the year to split between the partners. The partners are not paying you the big bucks because of your brilliant legal insight. Clients who are paying a firm upwards of $500 an hour expect that the firm will always be available. If the partner is always available, then you will always be available.

Remember, 60 hours a week (average) is considered "super long hours" to most people. And clients spend upwards of $1000+/hour, though not for associates (who start around $235/hour in their first year and then range upwards by around $50-80 per hour/per year).

My original post was re: "vacations are possible, because Biglaw isn't as much of a sweat shop as naive law students think." I stick by that. I don't think many partners actually sit in their corner offices, looking into a crystal ball, and cackling as they milk their associates dry... partners want to make money, but they are people and don't want to kill their associates. In my experience, partners expect you to show up to work and do long hours, but they still are happy to see you have a life, get married, take a vacation.

[paratactical]

.

[paratactical]

.

[Pearalegal]

1) As a paralegal, I get billed at $225/hour. Associates bill at more.

We are worth the exact same amount.

[paratactical]

.

[thompson]

OP has to be a flame. I gave him the benefit of the doubt at first, but I just can't do it anymore.

[Pearalegal]

1) As a paralegal, I get billed at $225/hour. Associates bill at more.

We are worth the exact same amount.

Aww. We're twinkies!

Love the new tar, by the way.

[crysmissmichelle]

Hell, teach 8th graders history. Than you get tones of vacations.

His second requirement was money. . .

[Philo38]

Hell, teach 8th graders history. Than you get tones of vacations.

His second requirement was money. . .

That is true . . .

Lots of vacation time . . . lots of money . . . Congressman?

[Pearalegal]

Lots of vacation time . . . lots of money . . . Congressman?

Theres always being a Supreme Court Justice if OP wants to stay in the legal field.