NYC DPW v. S&C Forum

[Anonymous User]

Troll accuser anon here. I agree that S&C is more grade selective than DPW, at least at my T6.

I was primarily taking issue with the statement that, in terms of prestige, it goes WLRK > S&C >>>>>> DPW. S&C and DPW are very much peers (and both less prestigious than WLRK, obvs). FWIW I work at S&C.

Just to piggyback on this - I'm a third year in lit at S&C with friends at DPW. They may as well work with me bc we have identical experiences

[Anonymous User]

Deciding between the two, mainly for FIG (maybe also interested in M&A, but it's a distant second). Does anyone have insight into the relative strengths of/differences between S&C and DPW FIG? I know both have been handling the recent bank crises, maybe with DPW slightly more in the news? TIA!

Both are elite groups, make your decision based on whether you preferences between FiDi/Midtown or rotational/generalist

Also, disagree with above - DPW and S&C are completely peer firms in NYC, generally and in FIG. They are both in that "firms that are incredible but not Wachtell" level

SullCrom is much more selective and has better associate talent. It's probably WLKR>SullCrom>>>>DPW

This is an obvious troll.

Not anon, but I would actually agree. DPW digs deeper into the T6 than SullCrom does. SullCrom is also much more established V5 than DPW

And quite a bit leaner, no?

S&C does probably staff leaner just based on size of the firms and my experiences compared to anecdotes of friends at the other firm. The type of work/exits is identical tho IMO.

Would say DPW capM probably has an edge

[Anonymous User]

Deciding between the two, mainly for FIG (maybe also interested in M&A, but it's a distant second). Does anyone have insight into the relative strengths of/differences between S&C and DPW FIG? I know both have been handling the recent bank crises, maybe with DPW slightly more in the news? TIA!

Both are elite groups, make your decision based on whether you preferences between FiDi/Midtown or rotational/generalist

Also, disagree with above - DPW and S&C are completely peer firms in NYC, generally and in FIG. They are both in that "firms that are incredible but not Wachtell" level

SullCrom is much more selective and has better associate talent. It's probably WLKR>SullCrom>>>>DPW

This is an obvious troll.

Not anon, but I would actually agree. DPW digs deeper into the T6 than SullCrom does. SullCrom is also much more established V5 than DPW

And quite a bit leaner, no?

S&C does probably staff leaner just based on size of the firms and my experiences compared to anecdotes of friends at the other firm. The type of work/exits is identical tho IMO.

Would say DPW capM probably has an edge

The only major practice area that S&C probably has an edge is M&A. DPW CapM and Restructuring / Finance are arguably better.

[Anonymous User]

Agree with previous posters. Both firms are identical and a few notches below the top NY firms

[lawschoollurker123]

Agree with previous posters. Both firms are identical and a few notches below the top NY firms

Anon, why are they both a few notches below the top NY firms? Other than WLRK, what other NY firms are significantly better than these two firms? It was always my understanding that when it came to NYC it was WLRK >>>CSM/S&C/DPW>the rest. Unless you are talking about some small elite lit boutiques (e.g., Molo) which aren't traditionally considered top NY firms otherwise I'm not quite sure what firms you are referring to.

[Anonymous User]

Agree with previous posters. Both firms are identical and a few notches below the top NY firms

Yeah, I agree - Wachtell is a notch above with regard to pubco M&A and then the boutiques prob edge them out in litigation. They are both in the grouping of elite big law that is stellar but not wachtell/lit boutiques

[Anonymous User]

Agree with previous posters. Both firms are identical and a few notches below the top NY firms

Anon, why are they both a few notches below the top NY firms? Other than WLRK, what other NY firms are significantly better than these two firms? It was always my understanding that when it came to NYC it was WLRK >>>CSM/S&C/DPW>the rest. Unless you are talking about some small elite lit boutiques (e.g., Molo) which aren't traditionally considered top NY firms otherwise I'm not quite sure what firms you are referring to.

No, that's not my understanding. I would say it's Cravath/WLRK>>S&C, DPW, Kirkland, Skadden>>>>the rest. I've worked in biglaw and have friends who do recruiting and this is generally the understanding in NYC.

[Anonymous User]

Agree with previous posters. Both firms are identical and a few notches below the top NY firms

Anon, why are they both a few notches below the top NY firms? Other than WLRK, what other NY firms are significantly better than these two firms? It was always my understanding that when it came to NYC it was WLRK >>>CSM/S&C/DPW>the rest. Unless you are talking about some small elite lit boutiques (e.g., Molo) which aren't traditionally considered top NY firms otherwise I'm not quite sure what firms you are referring to.

No, that's not my understanding. I would say it's Cravath/WLRK>>S&C, DPW, Kirkland, Skadden>>>>the rest. I've worked in biglaw and have friends who do recruiting and this is generally the understanding in NYC.

lol

[Anonymous User]

Agree with previous posters. Both firms are identical and a few notches below the top NY firms

Anon, why are they both a few notches below the top NY firms? Other than WLRK, what other NY firms are significantly better than these two firms? It was always my understanding that when it came to NYC it was WLRK >>>CSM/S&C/DPW>the rest. Unless you are talking about some small elite lit boutiques (e.g., Molo) which aren't traditionally considered top NY firms otherwise I'm not quite sure what firms you are referring to.

No, that's not my understanding. I would say it's Cravath/WLRK>>S&C, DPW, Kirkland, Skadden>>>>the rest. I've worked in biglaw and have friends who do recruiting and this is generally the understanding in NYC.

lol

The person has pivoted from the Quinn thread to this one !!!

But nah, when a firm does the same work for the same clients but pays all its associates 2x as much as any of the other firms, that firm stands alone as the best until someone starts matching their payscale.

Until then, there is a drop off after WLRK.

[DanBoMingLi]

Agree with previous posters. Both firms are identical and a few notches below the top NY firms

Anon, why are they both a few notches below the top NY firms? Other than WLRK, what other NY firms are significantly better than these two firms? It was always my understanding that when it came to NYC it was WLRK >>>CSM/S&C/DPW>the rest. Unless you are talking about some small elite lit boutiques (e.g., Molo) which aren't traditionally considered top NY firms otherwise I'm not quite sure what firms you are referring to.

No, that's not my understanding. I would say it's Cravath/WLRK>>S&C, DPW, Kirkland, Skadden>>>>the rest. I've worked in biglaw and have friends who do recruiting and this is generally the understanding in NYC.

lol

The person has pivoted from the Quinn thread to this one !!!

Beat me to it

[Anonymous User]

Both are elite groups, make your decision based on whether you preferences between FiDi/Midtown or rotational/generalist

Also, disagree with above - DPW and S&C are completely peer firms in NYC, generally and in FIG. They are both in that "firms that are incredible but not Wachtell" level

SullCrom is much more selective and has better associate talent. It's probably WLKR>SullCrom>>>>DPW

This is an obvious troll.

Not anon, but I would actually agree. DPW digs deeper into the T6 than SullCrom does. SullCrom is also much more established V5 than DPW

And quite a bit leaner, no?

S&C does probably staff leaner just based on size of the firms and my experiences compared to anecdotes of friends at the other firm. The type of work/exits is identical tho IMO.

Would say DPW capM probably has an edge

The only major practice area that S&C probably has an edge is M&A. DPW CapM and Restructuring / Finance are arguably better.

DPW Restructuring is not arguably better than S&C. It's definitely and definitively way better, measured by any kind of metric.

[Anonymous User]

How do they fare against each other for litigation? I have an interest in both investigations and civil work.

[Anonymous User]

How do they fare against each other for litigation? I have an interest in both investigations and civil work.

Completely peers

[Anonymous User]

I spent 7 years doing finance at a V5 that wasn't DPW or S&C. If I could do it all over again knowing then what I know now (re general competence, group culture as seen from the outside, general regard within finance specialty), I'd 100% have gone to DPW. Maybe Latham. S&C would have been fine, but it's a clear tier below DPW and Latham in finance in my 14,000+ hrs of billed experience working across from all the major firms in the area.

[Anonymous User]

I spent 7 years doing finance at a V5 that wasn't DPW or S&C. If I could do it all over again knowing then what I know now (re general competence, group culture as seen from the outside, general regard within finance specialty), I'd 100% have gone to DPW. Maybe Latham. S&C would have been fine, but it's a clear tier below DPW and Latham in finance in my 14,000+ hrs of billed experience working across from all the major firms in the area.

Can you expand on what you + others mean when you say finance? Seems like an umbrella term that includes lots of distinct practices.

[Anonymous User]

I spent 7 years doing finance at a V5 that wasn't DPW or S&C. If I could do it all over again knowing then what I know now (re general competence, group culture as seen from the outside, general regard within finance specialty), I'd 100% have gone to DPW. Maybe Latham. S&C would have been fine, but it's a clear tier below DPW and Latham in finance in my 14,000+ hrs of billed experience working across from all the major firms in the area.

Can you expand on what you + others mean when you say finance? Seems like an umbrella term that includes lots of distinct practices.

https://www.davispolk.com/finance/overview

https://www.sullcrom.com/Practices/Gene ... d-Finance/

[Anonymous User]

Generally S&C > DPW for m&a, project finance, white collar defense, and others; DPW > S&C for cap markets, finance, and restructuring.

[Anonymous User]

How do they fare against each other for litigation? I have an interest in both investigations and civil work.

Completely peers

Anything I should think about in terms of choosing beyond rotation/generalist models, and which people I liked more? Are the exit options basically the same?

[Anonymous User]

How do they fare against each other for litigation? I have an interest in both investigations and civil work.

Completely peers

Anything I should think about in terms of choosing beyond rotation/generalist models, and which people I liked more? Are the exit options basically the same?

Probably discount which people you liked more, they are 5 people at a 800+ person firm. It's pretty impossible to diligence culture at this stage.

Exits are going to be identically meh for lit. Seems like a fair number of people from S&C end up going to the SEC or CFTC. I've heard it's fairly common for people to go from DPW to AUSA/USAO SDNY. I'm sure neither firm has a meaningful advantage over the other with respect to either of those options.

I would not fault you if you were making this call based on which firm offered higher seamless credit budgets lol.

[Anonymous User]

DPW and S&C are peer firms for litigation. Pick based on which partners you liked better, what’s a better commute, free lunch, etc.

DPW is extremely strong for white collar but less strong for IP lit. I think DPW does more reps while S&C does more internal investigations.

[Anonymous User]

I think S&C sends more ppl to SDNY than DPW. I’d choose S&C over DPW for white collar and DPW over S&C for antitrust.