What do T6 grads with bad grades end up doing? Forum

[Anonymous User]

Penn with not great grades, Ended up at a V100 then lateraled to a V50, in-house now.

[crazywafflez]

Many folks who do poorly at a T13 tend to end up in the V100, sometimes they'll grab onto just an AM law firm like Baker Donelson, Bryan Cave, Vedder Price, or Littler (125k-205k depending on the market) if they did really poorly or want to go to a secondary market that doesn't have true BL etc.-i.e. non market paying firms.
Those types of firms, I believe, tend to be where a lot of the T20 send their median students. Things might shake up more now, but that was my general understanding.

As a brief aside though, I never worked at a V100 firm and was in a secondary market at a firm like Bryan Cave from a UNC/Bama/Wake/Tulane/Emory/UGA type school. So take my advice with a grain of salt. We did have a number of Vandy/WashU grads with median(ish) grades at my firm, and a few T14 folks as well.

[Anonymous User]

uchi grad (corporate): V5 offer (ok yes kirkland) and others in the V30; ended up at a V30... networked very hard and had prior relevant WE but i have to think i was in at most the bottom 25% maybe even like bottom 10-15%? no rankings so can only guess but i had firms be like we would love to hire you but what happened with your grades?

tl;dr we turned out fine

edited for clarity bc im a bad student

[Anonymous User]

digging holes on construction sites with empty coffee cans.

[Anonymous User]

digging holes on construction sites with empty coffee cans.

Is this supposed to be funny?

[Anonymous User]

digging holes on construction sites with empty coffee cans.

Is this supposed to be funny?

At Yale, the worst students ended up at SullCrom or DPW

Edit: Sorry, didn't mean to respond to you

[Anonymous User]

I had a Penn Law grad as my uber driver once in Philly.

[Anonymous User]

I had a Penn Law grad as my uber driver once in Philly.

one of the most awkward experiences of my life was when I was a 1L and a 2L classmate was my Uber driver to the airport

he was so coy about it? didn't seem like he was ashamed, but he was asking like "what do you do" "oh cool do you go to school here" "oh cool what program" "oh you're at X Law? me too!" my dude, you picked me up in front of the library!

[Liti-Gator]

The same things the top grads at t30s end up doing.

[Anonymous User]

digging holes on construction sites with empty coffee cans.

Is this supposed to be funny?

At Yale, the worst students ended up at SullCrom or DPW

Edit: Sorry, didn't mean to respond to you

Maybe we just run in different circles, but I think very few people I know in my year who went to S&C or DPW were anywhere close to the worst. In fact, several of them had perfect or near-perfect transcripts at the end of 2L, the backing of heavy-hitting recommenders for clerkship apps, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if there were a few people with poor grades mixed in there, though.

Still, I think it's more accurate to say that the worst students at Yale mostly end up doing whatever it is they wanted to do. It's true that certain outcomes (e.g., feeder clerkships, circuit clerkships in geographically popular places) are foreclosed to them unless they have other big advantages (like nepotism lol). But pretty much everything else is fair game and more subject to random chance, personality fit, geographic preferences, career interests, etc.

I know people in my year with very poor grades who ended up doing public interest (few places will turn down a YLS grad's free labor funded by the school's public interest fellowship); local, state, and federal government; non-feeder district court clerkships; and big law (including DPW and S&C, surely, but also Skadden, Paul Weiss, Cleary, Kirkland, Kaplan, Covington, Simpson, Selendy, Latham, etc.). But I also know people in my year with great grades who ended up doing those exact same things.

[Anonymous User]

That's me. Not a T6 but T10. At the risk of being identified, I want to share my story in case it might help you or make you feel better about where you are. (please excuse typos/grammar, typing with a keyboard I'm about to replace)

I'm fairly confident that I graduated bottom #1 of my class. I completely screwed up my life, for which I take full responsibility. To give you an idea of how much of a screwup I was back then, I alternated between sleeping 24+ hours straight and not sleeping at all. I could go 1-2 months without showering, brushing teeth or washing face. I once spent one semester without doing any laundry or talking to anyone. I was in and out of mental institutions. One time my professor had to knock on my door to make sure I was still breathing. By the end of 3L my ex broke up with me because I smelled too bad. I barely managed to reach graduation, and then I failed the bar multiple times because I couldn't show up on time, couldn't stay awake, or I simply threw up and shivered non-stop. I stayed out of workforce for three years because I wasn't in a position to work. Thanks to COVID relief I could keep a roof over my head, but that was about it.

Thankfully I'm no longer like that. I sat for the bar in July 2023, four years after I graduated. For the first time everything went smoothly. I haven't got my results yet but I'm optimistic.

I'm working at a local firm that specializes in debt collection. If I pass the bar I'll be promoted to an associate, making probably around $90k. I'm satisfied with where I am now, except that now I'm no longer in a bad place, I start to crave for intellectual challenges. Sometimes I want to seek opportunities at larger firms, but I'm afraid they would ask for my transcripts, and me being a screwup isn't the type of story a hiring manager wants to hear. I start to miss my classmates, many of whom I did not have a chance to speak to. I deeply regret not taking full advantage of my law school experience. I hate thinking about the past because it makes me super sad.

So OP, if you are in a better position than me, you'll be fine. The most important thing is to always remind yourself of your end goal - what kind of lifestyle do you want? where do you eventually want to end up? For many people, biglaw is simply means to an end. If this path is not for you, start exploring alternatives.

[jotarokujo]

That's me. Not a T6 but T10. At the risk of being identified, I want to share my story in case it might help you or make you feel better about where you are. (please excuse typos/grammar, typing with a keyboard I'm about to replace)

I'm fairly confident that I graduated bottom #1 of my class. I completely screwed up my life, for which I take full responsibility. To give you an idea of how much of a screwup I was back then, I alternated between sleeping 24+ hours straight and not sleeping at all. I could go 1-2 months without showering, brushing teeth or washing face. I once spent one semester without doing any laundry or talking to anyone. I was in and out of mental institutions. One time my professor had to knock on my door to make sure I was still breathing. By the end of 3L my ex broke up with me because I smelled too bad. I barely managed to reach graduation, and then I failed the bar multiple times because I couldn't show up on time, couldn't stay awake, or I simply threw up and shivered non-stop. I stayed out of workforce for three years because I wasn't in a position to work. Thanks to COVID relief I could keep a roof over my head, but that was about it.

Thankfully I'm no longer like that. I sat for the bar in July 2023, four years after I graduated. For the first time everything went smoothly. I haven't got my results yet but I'm optimistic.

I'm working at a local firm that specializes in debt collection. If I pass the bar I'll be promoted to an associate, making probably around $90k. I'm satisfied with where I am now, except that now I'm no longer in a bad place, I start to crave for intellectual challenges. Sometimes I want to seek opportunities at larger firms, but I'm afraid they would ask for my transcripts, and me being a screwup isn't the type of story a hiring manager wants to hear. I start to miss my classmates, many of whom I did not have a chance to speak to. I deeply regret not taking full advantage of my law school experience. I hate thinking about the past because it makes me super sad.

So OP, if you are in a better position than me, you'll be fine. The most important thing is to always remind yourself of your end goal - what kind of lifestyle do you want? where do you eventually want to end up? For many people, biglaw is simply means to an end. If this path is not for you, start exploring alternatives.

inspiring story, amazing that you picked things up.

"I deeply regret not taking full advantage of my law school experience." no need to dwell on this, you can take advantage of your current situation just as much as law school.

[Anonymous User]

That's me. Not a T6 but T10. At the risk of being identified, I want to share my story in case it might help you or make you feel better about where you are. (please excuse typos/grammar, typing with a keyboard I'm about to replace)

I'm fairly confident that I graduated bottom #1 of my class. I completely screwed up my life, for which I take full responsibility. To give you an idea of how much of a screwup I was back then, I alternated between sleeping 24+ hours straight and not sleeping at all. I could go 1-2 months without showering, brushing teeth or washing face. I once spent one semester without doing any laundry or talking to anyone. I was in and out of mental institutions. One time my professor had to knock on my door to make sure I was still breathing. By the end of 3L my ex broke up with me because I smelled too bad. I barely managed to reach graduation, and then I failed the bar multiple times because I couldn't show up on time, couldn't stay awake, or I simply threw up and shivered non-stop. I stayed out of workforce for three years because I wasn't in a position to work. Thanks to COVID relief I could keep a roof over my head, but that was about it.

Thankfully I'm no longer like that. I sat for the bar in July 2023, four years after I graduated. For the first time everything went smoothly. I haven't got my results yet but I'm optimistic.

I'm working at a local firm that specializes in debt collection. If I pass the bar I'll be promoted to an associate, making probably around $90k. I'm satisfied with where I am now, except that now I'm no longer in a bad place, I start to crave for intellectual challenges. Sometimes I want to seek opportunities at larger firms, but I'm afraid they would ask for my transcripts, and me being a screwup isn't the type of story a hiring manager wants to hear. I start to miss my classmates, many of whom I did not have a chance to speak to. I deeply regret not taking full advantage of my law school experience. I hate thinking about the past because it makes me super sad.

So OP, if you are in a better position than me, you'll be fine. The most important thing is to always remind yourself of your end goal - what kind of lifestyle do you want? where do you eventually want to end up? For many people, biglaw is simply means to an end. If this path is not for you, start exploring alternatives.

Fuck man, congrats. Glad to hear there's a happy ending.

[Anonymous User]

That's me. Not a T6 but T10. At the risk of being identified, I want to share my story in case it might help you or make you feel better about where you are. (please excuse typos/grammar, typing with a keyboard I'm about to replace)

I'm fairly confident that I graduated bottom #1 of my class. I completely screwed up my life, for which I take full responsibility. To give you an idea of how much of a screwup I was back then, I alternated between sleeping 24+ hours straight and not sleeping at all. I could go 1-2 months without showering, brushing teeth or washing face. I once spent one semester without doing any laundry or talking to anyone. I was in and out of mental institutions. One time my professor had to knock on my door to make sure I was still breathing. By the end of 3L my ex broke up with me because I smelled too bad. I barely managed to reach graduation, and then I failed the bar multiple times because I couldn't show up on time, couldn't stay awake, or I simply threw up and shivered non-stop. I stayed out of workforce for three years because I wasn't in a position to work. Thanks to COVID relief I could keep a roof over my head, but that was about it.

Thankfully I'm no longer like that. I sat for the bar in July 2023, four years after I graduated. For the first time everything went smoothly. I haven't got my results yet but I'm optimistic.

I'm working at a local firm that specializes in debt collection. If I pass the bar I'll be promoted to an associate, making probably around $90k. I'm satisfied with where I am now, except that now I'm no longer in a bad place, I start to crave for intellectual challenges. Sometimes I want to seek opportunities at larger firms, but I'm afraid they would ask for my transcripts, and me being a screwup isn't the type of story a hiring manager wants to hear. I start to miss my classmates, many of whom I did not have a chance to speak to. I deeply regret not taking full advantage of my law school experience. I hate thinking about the past because it makes me super sad.

So OP, if you are in a better position than me, you'll be fine. The most important thing is to always remind yourself of your end goal - what kind of lifestyle do you want? where do you eventually want to end up? For many people, biglaw is simply means to an end. If this path is not for you, start exploring alternatives.

It sounds like you were suffering from debilitating mental and psychological impairments that prevented you from functioning normally. So, to a large extent, the things you regret about your law school experience were not necessarily your fault. Godspeed.

[Wanderingdrock]

That's me. Not a T6 but T10. At the risk of being identified, I want to share my story in case it might help you or make you feel better about where you are. (please excuse typos/grammar, typing with a keyboard I'm about to replace)

I'm fairly confident that I graduated bottom #1 of my class. I completely screwed up my life, for which I take full responsibility. To give you an idea of how much of a screwup I was back then, I alternated between sleeping 24+ hours straight and not sleeping at all. I could go 1-2 months without showering, brushing teeth or washing face. I once spent one semester without doing any laundry or talking to anyone. I was in and out of mental institutions. One time my professor had to knock on my door to make sure I was still breathing. By the end of 3L my ex broke up with me because I smelled too bad. I barely managed to reach graduation, and then I failed the bar multiple times because I couldn't show up on time, couldn't stay awake, or I simply threw up and shivered non-stop. I stayed out of workforce for three years because I wasn't in a position to work. Thanks to COVID relief I could keep a roof over my head, but that was about it.

Thankfully I'm no longer like that. I sat for the bar in July 2023, four years after I graduated. For the first time everything went smoothly. I haven't got my results yet but I'm optimistic.

I'm working at a local firm that specializes in debt collection. If I pass the bar I'll be promoted to an associate, making probably around $90k. I'm satisfied with where I am now, except that now I'm no longer in a bad place, I start to crave for intellectual challenges. Sometimes I want to seek opportunities at larger firms, but I'm afraid they would ask for my transcripts, and me being a screwup isn't the type of story a hiring manager wants to hear. I start to miss my classmates, many of whom I did not have a chance to speak to. I deeply regret not taking full advantage of my law school experience. I hate thinking about the past because it makes me super sad.

So OP, if you are in a better position than me, you'll be fine. The most important thing is to always remind yourself of your end goal - what kind of lifestyle do you want? where do you eventually want to end up? For many people, biglaw is simply means to an end. If this path is not for you, start exploring alternatives.

It sounds like you were suffering from debilitating mental and psychological impairments that prevented you from functioning normally. So, to a large extent, the things you regret about your law school experience were not necessarily your fault. Godspeed.

^This. Not a doctor, etc. but sounds like textbook anxiety, possibly with depression (often associated). Hopefully you've gotten treatment, or got better through lifestyle changes and are ready to seek treatment if symptoms begin to return. Well done either way - we're all happy for you and appreciate you sharing.

[nealric]

Great recession era grad here:

During most recruiting seasons, even the bottom of the class does fine (including down through the bottom of the T14). Your class rank mostly determined what level of firm (or other non-firm opportunity) you had access to, but it was rare to be shut out of the v100 entirely. Some v10s recruited large enough classes that people with mediocre grades nevertheless made it in. During the great recession hiring seasons (class of 2010-2012ish), you saw a lot more OCI strike-outs in the T6, including from people with reasonably good grades. There were even HYS OCI strike-outs from people with perfectly normal personalities (though usually coupled with a bad bid strategy or focus on a difficult market like DC).

What happened to the OCI strikeouts? I think in general they were more likely to land on their feet than those who struck out from lower down the chain, but it wasn't easy. Because hiring was soft for several consecutive class years, there was a big backlog. By the time things started picking up in the legal market, the folks who were no-offered from the class of 2010 or struck out in 2011 were still trying to compete with fresh 2013 grads. The large number of biglaw strike-outs also made clerkships, fedgov positions, and other desirable opportunities extremely difficult to get.

By the same token, there were folks with good personalities/savvy bid strategies who made it from bottom of the class at T14 into the V100 even in 2011/12 and went onto very successful careers. The longer you work, the more grades fade in importance. I think there's some correlation between good grades and the success of people I knew from law school, but it's not particularly strong. Overall, most people have ended up in a pretty good spot career-wise- even those who had difficulty early on.

[Anonymous User]

T6 grad with bad grades. I got an offer at a boutique in a specialized practice area and worked there for 1 year. I lateralled to big law for 3 years. I am in-house now.

[Anonymous User]

I've seen Fed gov to BL or a Good Boutique.

[Anonymous User]

It was really hard to discern what "bottom of the class" grades looked like at my school due to the grading policies but the handful of people I know who LP'd multiple classes still ended up in big law. Places like Paul Hastings, Wilkie, Fried Frank, Goodwin, etc

[Anonymous User]

It was really hard to discern what "bottom of the class" grades looked like at my school due to the grading policies but the handful of people I know who LP'd multiple classes still ended up in big law. Places like Paul Hastings, Wilkie, Fried Frank, Goodwin, etc

A certain school in Boston, right? Well, not in Boston, but just outside. No, not Tufts.

[Anonymous User]

It was really hard to discern what "bottom of the class" grades looked like at my school due to the grading policies but the handful of people I know who LP'd multiple classes still ended up in big law. Places like Paul Hastings, Wilkie, Fried Frank, Goodwin, etc

A certain school in Boston, right? Well, not in Boston, but just outside. No, not Tufts.

I don't really get your point. It's a T6 school and this is a thread about where people from T6 schools ended up lmao

[Anonymous User]

It was really hard to discern what "bottom of the class" grades looked like at my school due to the grading policies but the handful of people I know who LP'd multiple classes still ended up in big law. Places like Paul Hastings, Wilkie, Fried Frank, Goodwin, etc

A certain school in Boston, right? Well, not in Boston, but just outside. No, not Tufts.

I don't really get your point. It's a T6 school and this is a thread about where people from T6 schools ended up lmao

HLS is technically a T6 school. It's also the only one that gives LP as a grade (NYU/Columbia use letters, Chicago has it's fucky numerical system, SLS has RCs, YLS has... unsure actually, do they give anything below a P?)

Edit: or if you were copping to it being HLS, it's because your use of "my school" followed by thing that only applies to Harvard but actively not mentioning Harvard is the most Harvard thing ever

[Anonymous User]

It was really hard to discern what "bottom of the class" grades looked like at my school due to the grading policies but the handful of people I know who LP'd multiple classes still ended up in big law. Places like Paul Hastings, Wilkie, Fried Frank, Goodwin, etc

A certain school in Boston, right? Well, not in Boston, but just outside. No, not Tufts.

I don't really get your point. It's a T6 school and this is a thread about where people from T6 schools ended up lmao

HLS is technically a T6 school. It's also the only one that gives LP as a grade (NYU/Columbia use letters, Chicago has it's fucky numerical system, SLS has RCs, YLS has... unsure actually, do they give anything below a P?)

Edit: or if you were copping to it being HLS, it's because your use of "my school" followed by thing that only applies to Harvard but actively not mentioning Harvard is the most Harvard thing ever

Not the person you are responding to but YLS only does H/P as far as I know. Also, kinda weird to jump on someone for answering the question asked while also providing context for their datapoint

[Anonymous User]

T14 bottom 50%. Ended up in a V40 corporate then lateraled to a V10. Made a lot of networking efforts.

[Anonymous User]

T14 bottom 50%. Ended up in a V40 corporate then lateraled to a V10. Made a lot of networking efforts.

I know so many from my T14 who did just this. Surprising number lateraled into v5s. Corporate is the great equalizer. I had to do really well as a lit associate to get to my old v5 just to watch them lateral in and lol at me lmao