Penn Law PEP Forum

[Anonymous User]

from the thread linked above (viewtopic.php?f=23&t=314360):

"I would also note that if you are nondiverse, targeting litigation, and don't have out of this world grades (top 10% or better), weird things can happen. I feel like my T14's career services office wasn't really upfront about how tough being a nondiverse litigation candidate can be, and it nearly led to me striking out. I got lucky and landed something I was really happy with, but got nothing throughout all of pre-OCI and did quite poorly at OCI itself as well."

True IMO

Lit is significantly harder to get but this is way over the top. Come on, you don’t need to be anywhere near top 10% at Penn to get a decent biglaw lit job. If you are around top 1/3 and you can interview reasonably well, you will be fine. I got multiple V10 lit offers from Penn and I was probably a touch below top 1/3 and not on LR. But I did have good work experience. Awkward non-diverse KJDs are the people I personally think struggle the most.

What is the GPA for top 1/3 after 1L

I had around a 3.5. I think just below.

[Anonymous User]

First off most V10 firms are NOT attainable from Penn at median. That’s just not true. Maybe Kirkland transactional and maybe Skadden but not GDC, PW, DPW, S&C, etc.

Also OCS literally doesn’t care about students and is useless. Do your own thing and don’t worry about their rules. Iirc, last year, they brought the whole 1L class in during the beginning of the spring semester and said no pre OCI etc … look how that turned out.

[Anonymous User]

Seconding the point about ignoring the career counselors. OCS is perhaps the weakest aspect of Penn compared to peer schools. I’ve heard so many stories about egregiously unprofessional behavior as well as terrible advice. Wonder if any of this year’s rising 2Ls have had the pleasure of scheduling a Zoom call with a career counselor only for her to take the call from bed.

[Anonymous User]

OCI strike-outs that I know of for class of 2024:

1. KJD, straight B+'s, focused on Philly without having joined Penn Law for Philly, didn't participate in pre-OCI.
2. Work experience, mostly A-'s, only bid DC, didn't participate in pre-OCI.
3. Work experience, mostly B+'s, some A-'s, bid Philly and NYC, didn't participate in pre-OCI.
4. KJD, broad mix of grades, bid NYC and Cali, didn't participate in pre-OCI.

Last year's class was large, competing against large classes, without institutional knowledge about the importance of pre-OCI. While PEP gets more people to participate in early recruiting, it also limits those who could have otherwise applied more broadly.

The advice to completely disregard the career services office or whatever that place is called is solid but most people will still be fine in OCI as long as they bid respectively. If you are medianish or below, focus on the large less selective New York firms. Do not bid DC at all or any V10 firm besides Kirkland. Do not waste any bids on Philly firms unless you really want to stay in Philly and can explain why. Dechert and Morgan Lewis are both surprisingly selective for their Philly offices. Lol at “Penn Law for Philly” though. No one cares about that and I have not even heard of that before this post. The Philly firms will want you to articulate why you want to be in Philadelphia or just see that you are from the general area. It’s pretty hard to entirely strike out at OCI if you just bid appropriately.

Don't agree with the V10/median comment. Especially if NY transactional. SImpson is perfectly attainable from median, for example.

I agree. You can get a transactional gig from any V10 firm besides Wachtell at median from Penn. But in this market I wouldn’t waste multiple bids on firms in that range if you are sitting around median. The people who strike out at median are people who use 9 bids on the V10 and a few on DC.

Agree with all of that minus Cravath ofc

[Anonymous User]

OCI strike-outs that I know of for class of 2024:

1. KJD, straight B+'s, focused on Philly without having joined Penn Law for Philly, didn't participate in pre-OCI.
2. Work experience, mostly A-'s, only bid DC, didn't participate in pre-OCI.
3. Work experience, mostly B+'s, some A-'s, bid Philly and NYC, didn't participate in pre-OCI.
4. KJD, broad mix of grades, bid NYC and Cali, didn't participate in pre-OCI.

Last year's class was large, competing against large classes, without institutional knowledge about the importance of pre-OCI. While PEP gets more people to participate in early recruiting, it also limits those who could have otherwise applied more broadly.

Do these students do 3L OCI?

[Anonymous User]

Just as a datapoint, Covington DC sent out screener invites today (6/15)

[Anonymous User]

.

[Anonymous User]

Jones Day DC & Covington DC screeners

What’s your GPA

[Anonymous User]

Jones Day DC & Covington DC screeners

What’s your GPA

Different user than the original commenter but also got a Covington screener, GPA is above a 3.7

[Anonymous User]

I know two other people who struck out. And I know many others -- including some on Law Review who were obviously above median -- who got just one or two offer/s for a lower-ranked firm they didn't like.

PLEASE be vigilant and watch out for yourself. OCS is looking out for their financial interest (as firms pay to participate in these programs). You need to look out for yours.

If I were a rising 2L, I'd just mass apply. OCI in August will be useless and it would be a tragedy to strike out after the tuition we pay.

[Anonymous User]

.

[Anonymous User]

Any other firms send NYC screener invites out?

[Anonymous User]

Wachtell screener

[Anonymous User]

STB, Sidley, and Quinn CBs went out

[Anonymous User]

Starts today. Figured I would make this thread so people can post any updates

Rising 3L here. I hope all of you are taking advantage of every possible loophole to apply to firms in addition to the few apps you get through this program (diversity, smaller offices, less popular markets). Either that or just disregard the “rules” entirely. OCS does NOT have your best interests at heart, at least if you’re above median. Penn students do strike out and firms will come close to filling up before official OCI.

Can you give some non-identifying info on the people who struck out? Work experience/grades/agreeableness/interview skills/ extracurriculars/where they applied? Would be useful to balance the doomspeak with some context.

This question makes me think you spent way too much time on Reddit law school admissions. Going to Penn is not a golden ticket to big law, you also have to be smart about this process because virtual interviewing makes it easy to hire outside the top schools. And LOL at the idea that anyone cares about your extracurriculars beyond the ones that signal you check off a certain diversity box. Affinity groups, lambda, etc are the only extracurriculars that help you at OCI besides law review.

[Anonymous User]

Starts today. Figured I would make this thread so people can post any updates

Rising 3L here. I hope all of you are taking advantage of every possible loophole to apply to firms in addition to the few apps you get through this program (diversity, smaller offices, less popular markets). Either that or just disregard the “rules” entirely. OCS does NOT have your best interests at heart, at least if you’re above median. Penn students do strike out and firms will come close to filling up before official OCI.

Can you give some non-identifying info on the people who struck out? Work experience/grades/agreeableness/interview skills/ extracurriculars/where they applied? Would be useful to balance the doomspeak with some context.

This question makes me think you spent way too much time on Reddit law school admissions. Going to Penn is not a golden ticket to big law, you also have to be smart about this process because virtual interviewing makes it easy to hire outside the top schools. And LOL at the idea that anyone cares about your extracurriculars beyond the ones that signal you check off a certain diversity box. Affinity groups, lambda, etc are the only extracurriculars that help you at OCI besides law review.

What are you talking about? Going to Penn pretty much guarantees you generic biglaw unless you are non-diverse, towards the bottom of the class, awkward, and managed to bid like an idiot at OCI. Look at the employment data. About 80% of the class ends up in biglaw or Fed clerkships consistently. And 10% of the class is obligated to go into public interest work because of their scholarship. And of the remaining 10%, a good chunk are JD/MBAs who end up bagging the law altogether and go to work for a bank or consulting firm.

I personally did not know a single person who struck out entirely at OCI btw. Penn is bad at putting students in clerkships and elite government jobs, but it’s very good at getting students generic biglaw jobs.

[Anonymous User]

Starts today. Figured I would make this thread so people can post any updates

Rising 3L here. I hope all of you are taking advantage of every possible loophole to apply to firms in addition to the few apps you get through this program (diversity, smaller offices, less popular markets). Either that or just disregard the “rules” entirely. OCS does NOT have your best interests at heart, at least if you’re above median. Penn students do strike out and firms will come close to filling up before official OCI.

Can you give some non-identifying info on the people who struck out? Work experience/grades/agreeableness/interview skills/ extracurriculars/where they applied? Would be useful to balance the doomspeak with some context.

This question makes me think you spent way too much time on Reddit law school admissions. Going to Penn is not a golden ticket to big law, you also have to be smart about this process because virtual interviewing makes it easy to hire outside the top schools. And LOL at the idea that anyone cares about your extracurriculars beyond the ones that signal you check off a certain diversity box. Affinity groups, lambda, etc are the only extracurriculars that help you at OCI besides law review.

What are you talking about? Going to Penn pretty much guarantees you generic biglaw unless you are non-diverse, towards the bottom of the class, awkward, and managed to bid like an idiot at OCI. Look at the employment data. About 80% of the class ends up in biglaw or Fed clerkships consistently. And 10% of the class is obligated to go into public interest work because of their scholarship. And of the remaining 10%, a good chunk are JD/MBAs who end up bagging the law altogether and go to work for a bank or consulting firm.

I personally did not know a single person who struck out entirely at OCI btw. Penn is bad at putting students in clerkships and elite government jobs, but it’s very good at getting students generic biglaw jobs.

.

[Anonymous User]

Starts today. Figured I would make this thread so people can post any updates

Rising 3L here. I hope all of you are taking advantage of every possible loophole to apply to firms in addition to the few apps you get through this program (diversity, smaller offices, less popular markets). Either that or just disregard the “rules” entirely. OCS does NOT have your best interests at heart, at least if you’re above median. Penn students do strike out and firms will come close to filling up before official OCI.

Can you give some non-identifying info on the people who struck out? Work experience/grades/agreeableness/interview skills/ extracurriculars/where they applied? Would be useful to balance the doomspeak with some context.

This question makes me think you spent way too much time on Reddit law school admissions. Going to Penn is not a golden ticket to big law, you also have to be smart about this process because virtual interviewing makes it easy to hire outside the top schools. And LOL at the idea that anyone cares about your extracurriculars beyond the ones that signal you check off a certain diversity box. Affinity groups, lambda, etc are the only extracurriculars that help you at OCI besides law review.

What are you talking about? Going to Penn pretty much guarantees you generic biglaw unless you are non-diverse, towards the bottom of the class, awkward, and managed to bid like an idiot at OCI. Look at the employment data. About 80% of the class ends up in biglaw or Fed clerkships consistently. And 10% of the class is obligated to go into public interest work because of their scholarship. And of the remaining 10%, a good chunk are JD/MBAs who end up bagging the law altogether and go to work for a bank or consulting firm.

I personally did not know a single person who struck out entirely at OCI btw. Penn is bad at putting students in clerkships and elite government jobs, but it’s very good at getting students generic biglaw jobs.

I said you have to be smart about the process which is largely bidding (and pre-OCI now). The people who strike out at any top school don’t brag about it and a 2L above was able to find four rising 3Ls to talk about the experience of striking out.

[Anonymous User]

Starts today. Figured I would make this thread so people can post any updates

Rising 3L here. I hope all of you are taking advantage of every possible loophole to apply to firms in addition to the few apps you get through this program (diversity, smaller offices, less popular markets). Either that or just disregard the “rules” entirely. OCS does NOT have your best interests at heart, at least if you’re above median. Penn students do strike out and firms will come close to filling up before official OCI.

Can you give some non-identifying info on the people who struck out? Work experience/grades/agreeableness/interview skills/ extracurriculars/where they applied? Would be useful to balance the doomspeak with some context.

This question makes me think you spent way too much time on Reddit law school admissions. Going to Penn is not a golden ticket to big law, you also have to be smart about this process because virtual interviewing makes it easy to hire outside the top schools. And LOL at the idea that anyone cares about your extracurriculars beyond the ones that signal you check off a certain diversity box. Affinity groups, lambda, etc are the only extracurriculars that help you at OCI besides law review.

What are you talking about? Going to Penn pretty much guarantees you generic biglaw unless you are non-diverse, towards the bottom of the class, awkward, and managed to bid like an idiot at OCI. Look at the employment data. About 80% of the class ends up in biglaw or Fed clerkships consistently. And 10% of the class is obligated to go into public interest work because of their scholarship. And of the remaining 10%, a good chunk are JD/MBAs who end up bagging the law altogether and go to work for a bank or consulting firm.

I personally did not know a single person who struck out entirely at OCI btw. Penn is bad at putting students in clerkships and elite government jobs, but it’s very good at getting students generic biglaw jobs.

I said you have to be smart about the process which is largely bidding (and pre-OCI now). The people who strike out at any top school don’t brag about it and a 2L above was able to find four rising 3Ls to talk about the experience of striking out.

Penn has to be bad, it's tied with Harvard

[Anonymous User]

OCI strike-outs that I know of for class of 2024:

1. KJD, straight B+'s, focused on Philly without having joined Penn Law for Philly, didn't participate in pre-OCI.
2. Work experience, mostly A-'s, only bid DC, didn't participate in pre-OCI.
3. Work experience, mostly B+'s, some A-'s, bid Philly and NYC, didn't participate in pre-OCI.
4. KJD, broad mix of grades, bid NYC and Cali, didn't participate in pre-OCI.

Last year's class was large, competing against large classes, without institutional knowledge about the importance of pre-OCI. While PEP gets more people to participate in early recruiting, it also limits those who could have otherwise applied more broadly.

Do these students do 3L OCI?

?

[Anonymous User]

OCI strike-outs that I know of for class of 2024:

1. KJD, straight B+'s, focused on Philly without having joined Penn Law for Philly, didn't participate in pre-OCI.
2. Work experience, mostly A-'s, only bid DC, didn't participate in pre-OCI.
3. Work experience, mostly B+'s, some A-'s, bid Philly and NYC, didn't participate in pre-OCI.
4. KJD, broad mix of grades, bid NYC and Cali, didn't participate in pre-OCI.

Last year's class was large, competing against large classes, without institutional knowledge about the importance of pre-OCI. While PEP gets more people to participate in early recruiting, it also limits those who could have otherwise applied more broadly.

Do these students do 3L OCI?

?

Not the OP but I just graduated. I did not know a single person who did 3L OCI because that person needed a job. I knew a couple people who did it to try to get a different firm or a different geographic location but those people already had return offers from other firms.

[Anonymous User]

OCI strike-outs that I know of for class of 2024:

1. KJD, straight B+'s, focused on Philly without having joined Penn Law for Philly, didn't participate in pre-OCI.
2. Work experience, mostly A-'s, only bid DC, didn't participate in pre-OCI.
3. Work experience, mostly B+'s, some A-'s, bid Philly and NYC, didn't participate in pre-OCI.
4. KJD, broad mix of grades, bid NYC and Cali, didn't participate in pre-OCI.

Last year's class was large, competing against large classes, without institutional knowledge about the importance of pre-OCI. While PEP gets more people to participate in early recruiting, it also limits those who could have otherwise applied more broadly.

Do these students do 3L OCI?

?

Not the OP but I just graduated. I did not know a single person who did 3L OCI because that person needed a job. I knew a couple people who did it to try to get a different firm or a different geographic location but those people already had return offers from other firms.

So what happens to the person above who has mostly A-s if they still want to go to a firm but didn’t get anything in 2L…

[Anonymous User]

STB, Sidley, and Quinn CBs went out

Callbacks? Or screeners

[Anonymous User]

The people who are saying no one stikes out from Penn are either (1) class of 2023 or earlier, or (2) haven't actually asked around. Class of '24 strikeouts seemed to be all over the map in terms of GPA, background, other factors. Lots of people made poor choices (bidding, pre-OCI) relying on OCS advice. You should do this PEP program and then mass apply by the beginning of July.

[Anonymous User]

STB, Sidley, and Quinn CBs went out

What city?