Help Me Understand Cost of Living Forum

[Anonymous User]

OP here. So is the consensus then that if all I care about is money, NYC is just as good as any other market with mid/biglaw?

NYC is better for making money because it has the most firms and most turnover. Other markets are harder to crack into and have lesser lateral prospects, although last time I said this somebody chimed in that Texas hires just as aggressively now (not sure if that's true but YMMV)

Sounds like OP isn't planning on sticking around in BL long enough for this to matter.

[Anonymous User]

I would explore (1) the top-of-the-market firms in the market you actually want to live in (which may or may not be Vault firms), (2) firms in other biglaw markets, and (3) remote jobs at Quinn etc. you could work from your desired market at least for a bit. NYC biglaw is nothing special, especially for lit, and has higher cost of living and often inferior work compared with other options. Depending on your stage of life--i.e., whether you are interested in starting a family in the foreseeable future--being confined to a small apartment or long commute may also be a major quality-of-life downside that it's hard to put a dollar sign on.

[thisismytlsuername]

Hell yeah, baby! We haven't had a "is living in NYC worth it" thread in months.

You can build wealth just fine living in NYC. When you're a junior associate you can't buy a table at Marquee (I'm too old to know what clubs are hip nowadays -- I still miss Riff Raff) every weekend, and you can't live in a 3BR in a doorman building in Tribeca or a floor-through loft in SoHo, but you can live a really fun life and still save a shitload of money.

lol at the guy from Cleveland saying that there's no "tangible benefit" to living in NYC though. Compare Cleveland Hinge to Manhattan Hinge and get back to me my dude.

[Antetrust]

OP here. So is the consensus then that if all I care about is money, NYC is just as good as any other market with mid/biglaw?

Making money and building wealth are not the same thing. If your goal is to build wealth, there’s no way NYC is your best option. That’s just nonsense.

Can you elaborate?

You can make a lot of money without building wealth if you are spending most of what you make. You can build a lot of wealth without making a lot of money if you save and invest most of what you make.

EX:
1) You live in NYC, make $200k/year, and spend $120k on living expenses: you have $80k to invest and build wealth.
2) You live in (secondary market), make $160k/year, and spend $50k on living expenses: you have $110k to invest and build wealth.

In this example, you make more money in NYC, but you build more wealth in (secondary market).

[Chubbyleaous]

If you're spending that much to live in NYC there's a real problem

I will elaborate if you have an interest

[Anonymous User]

Hell yeah, baby! We haven't had a "is living in NYC worth it" thread in months.

You can build wealth just fine living in NYC. When you're a junior associate you can't buy a table at Marquee (I'm too old to know what clubs are hip nowadays -- I still miss Riff Raff) every weekend, and you can't live in a 3BR in a doorman building in Tribeca or a floor-through loft in SoHo, but you can live a really fun life and still save a shitload of money.

lol at the guy from Cleveland saying that there's no "tangible benefit" to living in NYC though. Compare Cleveland Hinge to Manhattan Hinge and get back to me my dude.

Out of curiosity, cost aside are Tribeca/SoHo actually good places to live? I've always felt that the West Village/Chelsea/UWS/UES are just slightly more liveable and less... idk manufactured feeling?

Also yeah re: secondary markets. Most secondary markets aren't that much cheaper either except for Houston/Dallas.

[thisismytlsuername]

Hell yeah, baby! We haven't had a "is living in NYC worth it" thread in months.

You can build wealth just fine living in NYC. When you're a junior associate you can't buy a table at Marquee (I'm too old to know what clubs are hip nowadays -- I still miss Riff Raff) every weekend, and you can't live in a 3BR in a doorman building in Tribeca or a floor-through loft in SoHo, but you can live a really fun life and still save a shitload of money.

lol at the guy from Cleveland saying that there's no "tangible benefit" to living in NYC though. Compare Cleveland Hinge to Manhattan Hinge and get back to me my dude.

Out of curiosity, cost aside are Tribeca/SoHo actually good places to live? I've always felt that the West Village/Chelsea/UWS/UES are just slightly more liveable and less... idk manufactured feeling?

Also yeah re: secondary markets. Most secondary markets aren't that much cheaper either except for Houston/Dallas.

I personally wouldn't be interested in Tribeca or Soho. Tribeca is pretty boring (but families seem to love it) and Soho is packed with tourists every weekend.

[Anonymous User]

If you're spending that much to live in NYC there's a real problem

I will elaborate if you have an interest

Please do, if you have the time. These threads are always entertaining and draw the most intense reactions. See viewtopic.php?f=23&t=311366 and viewtopic.php?f=23&t=312727

[Anonymous User]

Hell yeah, baby! We haven't had a "is living in NYC worth it" thread in months.

You can build wealth just fine living in NYC. When you're a junior associate you can't buy a table at Marquee (I'm too old to know what clubs are hip nowadays -- I still miss Riff Raff) every weekend, and you can't live in a 3BR in a doorman building in Tribeca or a floor-through loft in SoHo, but you can live a really fun life and still save a shitload of money.

lol at the guy from Cleveland saying that there's no "tangible benefit" to living in NYC though. Compare Cleveland Hinge to Manhattan Hinge and get back to me my dude.

Out of curiosity, cost aside are Tribeca/SoHo actually good places to live? I've always felt that the West Village/Chelsea/UWS/UES are just slightly more liveable and less... idk manufactured feeling?

Also yeah re: secondary markets. Most secondary markets aren't that much cheaper either except for Houston/Dallas.

They are all excellent areas to live, but it's entirely dependent on your lifestyle and personal preferences. If I had kids, I'd prefer to live in Upper West or Upper East Side.

I don't have kids and my ideal neighborhood right now is Gramercy (although I don't live there now).

Some people really really like Brooklyn - others really like Harlem or Astoria. It's not really an easy question to answer because when we're discussing the prime neighborhoods in NYC, there's not one that is "objectively better".

Like for me, West Village is objectively better than Upper West Side. However, a family that values having Central Park access and a quieter place for sleeping babies is going to argue that Upper West Side is objectively better, and they're right for their lifestyle.

[Res Ipsa Loquitter]

Hell yeah, baby! We haven't had a "is living in NYC worth it" thread in months.

You can build wealth just fine living in NYC. When you're a junior associate you can't buy a table at Marquee (I'm too old to know what clubs are hip nowadays -- I still miss Riff Raff) every weekend, and you can't live in a 3BR in a doorman building in Tribeca or a floor-through loft in SoHo, but you can live a really fun life and still save a shitload of money.

lol at the guy from Cleveland saying that there's no "tangible benefit" to living in NYC though. Compare Cleveland Hinge to Manhattan Hinge and get back to me my dude.

Out of curiosity, cost aside are Tribeca/SoHo actually good places to live? I've always felt that the West Village/Chelsea/UWS/UES are just slightly more liveable and less... idk manufactured feeling?

Also yeah re: secondary markets. Most secondary markets aren't that much cheaper either except for Houston/Dallas.

They are all excellent areas to live, but it's entirely dependent on your lifestyle and personal preferences. If I had kids, I'd prefer to live in Upper West or Upper East Side.

I don't have kids and my ideal neighborhood right now is Gramercy (although I don't live there now).

Some people really really like Brooklyn - others really like Harlem or Astoria. It's not really an easy question to answer because when we're discussing the prime neighborhoods in NYC, there's not one that is "objectively better".

Like for me, West Village is objectively better than Upper West Side. However, a family that values having Central Park access and a quieter place for sleeping babies is going to argue that Upper West Side is objectively better, and they're right for their lifestyle.

Can a first year afford either of UWS or West Village at this point? You’re looking at beaucoup bucks for either. In Harlem or Astoria they could get a 2 bed or fancy one bed, but neither neighborhood is where most folks dream of living.

[thisismytlsuername]

Hell yeah, baby! We haven't had a "is living in NYC worth it" thread in months.

You can build wealth just fine living in NYC. When you're a junior associate you can't buy a table at Marquee (I'm too old to know what clubs are hip nowadays -- I still miss Riff Raff) every weekend, and you can't live in a 3BR in a doorman building in Tribeca or a floor-through loft in SoHo, but you can live a really fun life and still save a shitload of money.

lol at the guy from Cleveland saying that there's no "tangible benefit" to living in NYC though. Compare Cleveland Hinge to Manhattan Hinge and get back to me my dude.

Out of curiosity, cost aside are Tribeca/SoHo actually good places to live? I've always felt that the West Village/Chelsea/UWS/UES are just slightly more liveable and less... idk manufactured feeling?

Also yeah re: secondary markets. Most secondary markets aren't that much cheaper either except for Houston/Dallas.

They are all excellent areas to live, but it's entirely dependent on your lifestyle and personal preferences. If I had kids, I'd prefer to live in Upper West or Upper East Side.

I don't have kids and my ideal neighborhood right now is Gramercy (although I don't live there now).

Some people really really like Brooklyn - others really like Harlem or Astoria. It's not really an easy question to answer because when we're discussing the prime neighborhoods in NYC, there's not one that is "objectively better".

Like for me, West Village is objectively better than Upper West Side. However, a family that values having Central Park access and a quieter place for sleeping babies is going to argue that Upper West Side is objectively better, and they're right for their lifestyle.

Can a first year afford either of UWS or West Village at this point? You’re looking at beaucoup bucks for either. In Harlem or Astoria they could get a 2 bed or fancy one bed, but neither neighborhood is where most folks dream of living.

UWS easily -- 125 apts on the UWS for under $3200: https://streeteasy.com/for-rent/uws/price:-3200

Tougher in the West Village, but first years haven't been able really afford a decent West Village apartment for a long time.

[Anonymous User]

OP here. So is the consensus then that if all I care about is money, NYC is just as good as any other market with mid/biglaw?

Making money and building wealth are not the same thing. If your goal is to build wealth, there’s no way NYC is your best option. That’s just nonsense.

Can you elaborate?

I think it's been pretty clearly described in the thread already.

Most of the discussion here is really answering the question “can I save money in NYC with a reasonable lifestyle” but OP’s question is actually “if I live in NYC will I save more, less, or the same as compared to other markets?” and doesn’t seem to realize that the answers to one don’t necessarily tie to the other.

Yes, you can enjoy a fairly good lifestyle in NYC while saving/investing money, and there’s nothing wrong with that if you value the benefits of living there. But, it is absolutely unquestionably obvious that you would save wayyyy more money, and enjoy a higher quality of living for less expense (NOT counting the intangible benefits of living in NYC of course, just things like housing etc) in other markets.

Every BigLaw market except SF/SV will be cheaper than NYC. In some cases moderately cheaper (DC, LA) and in other cases drastically cheaper (Texas). Also, tax differences can be significant: at a first year $215k salary, associates in DC and Boston make about $1k/month more than NYC, while Texans make about $2k/month more (not counting cost of living). Of course, there are also plenty of small markets where you can live cheap and build more wealth even on a below-market salary, but there are numerous options outside NYC that pay Cravath AND are cheaper.

Again, there are plenty of good reasons to be in NYC for certain people. But if OP really only cares about money, the most optimal scenario would be to move to Houston and work at Susman (with their crazily above-market bonuses). Next best would be also Houston, but working at one of the many Cravath-scale BigLaw shops (Latham, Kirkland, Gibson, V&E, Sidley, Simpson, etc etc). As far as I know, Houston is the absolute cheapest of the major BigLaw markets with Cravath-scale options, and also comes with zero state income tax. As an ex-New Yorker who now practices in Houston, the savings are extraordinary. And you can live in a brand new 3000 sqft house with a 20 minute commute for less than the cost of an average NYC apartment (or a luxury apartment next to your office for 1/3-1/2 the price of a normal NYC apartment).

[nealric]

OP here. So is the consensus then that if all I care about is money, NYC is just as good as any other market with mid/biglaw?

Making money and building wealth are not the same thing. If your goal is to build wealth, there’s no way NYC is your best option. That’s just nonsense.

Can you elaborate?

I think it's been pretty clearly described in the thread already.

Most of the discussion here is really answering the question “can I save money in NYC with a reasonable lifestyle” but OP’s question is actually “if I live in NYC will I save more, less, or the same as compared to other markets?” and doesn’t seem to realize that the answers to one don’t necessarily tie to the other.

Yes, you can enjoy a fairly good lifestyle in NYC while saving/investing money, and there’s nothing wrong with that if you value the benefits of living there. But, it is absolutely unquestionably obvious that you would save wayyyy more money, and enjoy a higher quality of living for less expense (NOT counting the intangible benefits of living in NYC of course, just things like housing etc) in other markets.

Every BigLaw market except SF/SV will be cheaper than NYC. In some cases moderately cheaper (DC, LA) and in other cases drastically cheaper (Texas). Also, tax differences can be significant: at a first year $215k salary, associates in DC and Boston make about $1k/month more than NYC, while Texans make about $2k/month more (not counting cost of living). Of course, there are also plenty of small markets where you can live cheap and build more wealth even on a below-market salary, but there are numerous options outside NYC that pay Cravath AND are cheaper.

Again, there are plenty of good reasons to be in NYC for certain people. But if OP really only cares about money, the most optimal scenario would be to move to Houston and work at Susman (with their crazily above-market bonuses). Next best would be also Houston, but working at one of the many Cravath-scale BigLaw shops (Latham, Kirkland, Gibson, V&E, Sidley, Simpson, etc etc). As far as I know, Houston is the absolute cheapest of the major BigLaw markets with Cravath-scale options, and also comes with zero state income tax. As an ex-New Yorker who now practices in Houston, the savings are extraordinary. And you can live in a brand new 3000 sqft house with a 20 minute commute for less than the cost of an average NYC apartment (or a luxury apartment next to your office for 1/3-1/2 the price of a normal NYC apartment).

Texas is also a very unique market in that it has quite a few full market-paying firms but also has fairly low cost of living. More typical of the "secondary" markets are markets like Seattle or Atlanta, where there are a very limited number of market paying jobs. Seattle is also now pretty high COL. You have Chicago in the middle, which I guess is a bit of a medium cost of living locale. "Market" salary scales are pretty unique to biglaw associates in general. Most jobs in most industries are more individualized, and pay better in HCOL markets (maybe or maybe not enough tom compensate for the COL).

I think the associate compensation scale is a bit unique in this discussion. I'm not sure things hold up as you get past the associate rank (which is likely no more than 1/3 of your legal career). NYC partners and in-house jobs likely pay more on average than their closest secondary market equivalents.

Speaking from personal experience having lived in both NYC and Texas, I actually spent a lot less in NYC because I didn't have kids at the time or any reason to spend a lot of money. I'm not a huge bar/club/restaurant scene person and a fancy apartment made little sense to me when I was working biglaw hours and was rarely home. I could theoretically live cheaper in Texas than I did in Houston, but the fact that I can own a nice house and multiple cars means I do. In other words, there's more incentive for me to spend money here given my personal tastes. That said, I wouldn't move back to NYC if you doubled my salary. Glad I did it once, but have no desire to go back for more than visits.

[thisismytlsuername]

Actually, the best way to build wealth in biglaw is to work for Wachtell remotely from Mississippi.

[Res Ipsa Loquitter]

Hell yeah, baby! We haven't had a "is living in NYC worth it" thread in months.

You can build wealth just fine living in NYC. When you're a junior associate you can't buy a table at Marquee (I'm too old to know what clubs are hip nowadays -- I still miss Riff Raff) every weekend, and you can't live in a 3BR in a doorman building in Tribeca or a floor-through loft in SoHo, but you can live a really fun life and still save a shitload of money.

lol at the guy from Cleveland saying that there's no "tangible benefit" to living in NYC though. Compare Cleveland Hinge to Manhattan Hinge and get back to me my dude.

Out of curiosity, cost aside are Tribeca/SoHo actually good places to live? I've always felt that the West Village/Chelsea/UWS/UES are just slightly more liveable and less... idk manufactured feeling?

Also yeah re: secondary markets. Most secondary markets aren't that much cheaper either except for Houston/Dallas.

They are all excellent areas to live, but it's entirely dependent on your lifestyle and personal preferences. If I had kids, I'd prefer to live in Upper West or Upper East Side.

I don't have kids and my ideal neighborhood right now is Gramercy (although I don't live there now).

Some people really really like Brooklyn - others really like Harlem or Astoria. It's not really an easy question to answer because when we're discussing the prime neighborhoods in NYC, there's not one that is "objectively better".

Like for me, West Village is objectively better than Upper West Side. However, a family that values having Central Park access and a quieter place for sleeping babies is going to argue that Upper West Side is objectively better, and they're right for their lifestyle.

Can a first year afford either of UWS or West Village at this point? You’re looking at beaucoup bucks for either. In Harlem or Astoria they could get a 2 bed or fancy one bed, but neither neighborhood is where most folks dream of living.

UWS easily -- 125 apts on the UWS for under $3200: https://streeteasy.com/for-rent/uws/price:-3200

Tougher in the West Village, but first years haven't been able really afford a decent West Village apartment for a long time.

According to streeteasy the UWS goes all the way to 110th street, which is not where most biglaw associates would be looking to live.

You’re right that $3000 gives you options. For people who aren’t used to NYC, though, they might be shocked how crappy an apartment $3000 rents on the UWS today in fall 2022.

[thisismytlsuername]

Hell yeah, baby! We haven't had a "is living in NYC worth it" thread in months.

You can build wealth just fine living in NYC. When you're a junior associate you can't buy a table at Marquee (I'm too old to know what clubs are hip nowadays -- I still miss Riff Raff) every weekend, and you can't live in a 3BR in a doorman building in Tribeca or a floor-through loft in SoHo, but you can live a really fun life and still save a shitload of money.

lol at the guy from Cleveland saying that there's no "tangible benefit" to living in NYC though. Compare Cleveland Hinge to Manhattan Hinge and get back to me my dude.

Out of curiosity, cost aside are Tribeca/SoHo actually good places to live? I've always felt that the West Village/Chelsea/UWS/UES are just slightly more liveable and less... idk manufactured feeling?

Also yeah re: secondary markets. Most secondary markets aren't that much cheaper either except for Houston/Dallas.

They are all excellent areas to live, but it's entirely dependent on your lifestyle and personal preferences. If I had kids, I'd prefer to live in Upper West or Upper East Side.

I don't have kids and my ideal neighborhood right now is Gramercy (although I don't live there now).

Some people really really like Brooklyn - others really like Harlem or Astoria. It's not really an easy question to answer because when we're discussing the prime neighborhoods in NYC, there's not one that is "objectively better".

Like for me, West Village is objectively better than Upper West Side. However, a family that values having Central Park access and a quieter place for sleeping babies is going to argue that Upper West Side is objectively better, and they're right for their lifestyle.

Can a first year afford either of UWS or West Village at this point? You’re looking at beaucoup bucks for either. In Harlem or Astoria they could get a 2 bed or fancy one bed, but neither neighborhood is where most folks dream of living.

UWS easily -- 125 apts on the UWS for under $3200: https://streeteasy.com/for-rent/uws/price:-3200

Tougher in the West Village, but first years haven't been able really afford a decent West Village apartment for a long time.

According to streeteasy the UWS goes all the way to 110th street, which is not where most biglaw associates would be looking to live.

You’re right that $3000 gives you options. For people who aren’t used to NYC, though, they might be shocked how crappy an apartment $3000 rents on the UWS today in fall 2022.

Everyone's first apartment in NYC is crappy. I had cockroaches falling on my head in the shower and crawling over my legs in bed in my first apartment, and my rent was a similar % of my income that $3000 is to those insane first year salaries nowadays.

Now I'm rich. They'll survive.

[Anonymous User]

OP here. How much does living in NJ change the outcome? Especially with 3 days in the office, I’m ok with a one-hour commute.

[thisismytlsuername]

OP here. How much does living in NJ change the outcome? Especially with 3 days in the office, I’m ok with a one-hour commute.

Here's some good info: https://www.google.com/search?q=how+to+make+a+budget

[Anonymous User]

Here’s some really helpful guidance to help understand why living in NYC when other markets are an option for you may not make financial sense: https://www.nalp.org/class_of_2020_buying_power_index.

With that being said, obviously theres benefits NYC offers for quality of living that aren’t accounted for.

[Sackboy]

Also yeah re: secondary markets. Most secondary markets aren't that much cheaper either except for Houston/Dallas.

I feel like only NYers or people with very limited experience in the U.S. say this. COL in every U.S. city outside of maybe Seattle, LA, DC, San Diego, Honolulu, San Francisco, Miami, and Boston are significantly cheaper (and half of those aren't secondary markets). Milwaukee, Houston, Dallas, Cleveland, Detroit, Des Moines, Minneapolis, San Antonia, Austin, Charlotte, Atlanta, and many more cities are significantly cheaper. Chicago is also significantly cheaper and not a secondary market. Classic NY brain rot strikes again, but you can feel free to keep trying to convince us from your $3,300/mo. 550sq. ft. Park Slope studio.

[thisismytlsuername]

Also yeah re: secondary markets. Most secondary markets aren't that much cheaper either except for Houston/Dallas.

I feel like only NYers or people with very limited experience in the U.S. say this. COL in every U.S. city outside of maybe Seattle, LA, DC, San Diego, Honolulu, San Francisco, Miami, and Boston are significantly cheaper (and half of those aren't secondary markets). Milwaukee, Houston, Dallas, Cleveland, Detroit, Des Moines, Minneapolis, San Antonia, Austin, Charlotte, Atlanta, and many more cities are significantly cheaper. Chicago is also significantly cheaper and not a secondary market. Classic NY brain rot strikes again, but you can feel free to keep trying to convince us from your $3,300/mo. 550sq. ft. Park Slope studio.

Subtle Des Moines trolling.

[pierredelecto7]

Open Google Maps, Brooklyn.
Montgomery street near Utica is Ultra-Orthodox Jewish area as you proceed toward Kingston Street and keep going toward Western Beef Supermarket area.
Now go the other way back toward Utica into East NY. Where Montgomery blends into e92nd Street. Near Utica and NY Ave. This is a very safe area which I'm familiar with. A 2 bedroom $2200. Electric, gas, heat included. Note the location of the Sutter/Rutland 3 train which takes you right into the Manhattan tentacles of BiggestLaw.

[Anonymous User]

OP here. How much does living in NJ change the outcome? Especially with 3 days in the office, I’m ok with a one-hour commute.

Living in NJ will save you a ton of money if you live in Newark. Hoboken is also pretty expensive these days.

Honestly, are you okay living with a roommate? All of the other posters are looking at/talking about living alone. If you're okay with living with a roommate, you can absolutely live in a great neighborhood in NYC and keep rent low.

If housing is extremely important to you (ie living alone in a nice big apartment) and the neighborhood perks/amenities is not important to you (ie willing to live in Newark, NJ), then you will not enjoy living in NYC and should think of secondary markets.

The first rule about NYC is that your first apartment will suck. Everybody knows and understands that, and it's fine. It's a lot better to have a shitty apartment in west village than in LES.

Also, lol @ transplants saying no one wants to live in Astoria/Harlem/110th. I'm sorry but you guys spending 2-3 years playing NYer and then moving to whatever secondary city that wishes it was NY and totally has that 1 street that reminds you of Williamsburg, doesn't mean no one wants to live in those neighborhoods. Most of us actually leave the 1 square mile of Manhattan that you won't step foot outside.

[Anonymous User]

OP here. How much does living in NJ change the outcome? Especially with 3 days in the office, I’m ok with a one-hour commute.

Living in NJ will save you a ton of money if you live in Newark. Hoboken is also pretty expensive these days.

Honestly, are you okay living with a roommate? All of the other posters are looking at/talking about living alone. If you're okay with living with a roommate, you can absolutely live in a great neighborhood in NYC and keep rent low.

If housing is extremely important to you (ie living alone in a nice big apartment) and the neighborhood perks/amenities is not important to you (ie willing to live in Newark, NJ), then you will not enjoy living in NYC and should think of secondary markets.

The first rule about NYC is that your first apartment will suck. Everybody knows and understands that, and it's fine. It's a lot better to have a shitty apartment in west village than in LES.

Also, lol @ transplants saying no one wants to live in Astoria/Harlem/110th. I'm sorry but you guys spending 2-3 years playing NYer and then moving to whatever secondary city that wishes it was NY and totally has that 1 street that reminds you of Williamsburg, doesn't mean no one wants to live in those neighborhoods. Most of us actually leave the 1 square mile of Manhattan that you won't step foot outside.

I’m married and we’re expecting a child soon, so I can’t really do a roommate. The only thing I want NYC for is the salary and the type of work. But I guess it just sounds like it is not worth it.

[nealric]

OP here. How much does living in NJ change the outcome? Especially with 3 days in the office, I’m ok with a one-hour commute.

Living in NJ will save you a ton of money if you live in Newark. Hoboken is also pretty expensive these days.

Honestly, are you okay living with a roommate? All of the other posters are looking at/talking about living alone. If you're okay with living with a roommate, you can absolutely live in a great neighborhood in NYC and keep rent low.

If housing is extremely important to you (ie living alone in a nice big apartment) and the neighborhood perks/amenities is not important to you (ie willing to live in Newark, NJ), then you will not enjoy living in NYC and should think of secondary markets.

The first rule about NYC is that your first apartment will suck. Everybody knows and understands that, and it's fine. It's a lot better to have a shitty apartment in west village than in LES.

Also, lol @ transplants saying no one wants to live in Astoria/Harlem/110th. I'm sorry but you guys spending 2-3 years playing NYer and then moving to whatever secondary city that wishes it was NY and totally has that 1 street that reminds you of Williamsburg, doesn't mean no one wants to live in those neighborhoods. Most of us actually leave the 1 square mile of Manhattan that you won't step foot outside.

I’m married and we’re expecting a child soon, so I can’t really do a roommate. The only thing I want NYC for is the salary and the type of work. But I guess it just sounds like it is not worth it.

I would absolutely not do NYC if you are expecting a child unless you already have a family support structure there.