Partner Track on Netflix- Thoughts? Forum

[Anonymous User]

Hey can we keep this thread for the show? Understand the frustration expressed here but there is another lively thread devoted to the ethnic issues.

...Is the show not 50% sex/drama, 30% ethnic issues, and 20% law? So, what, you want us to talk about the 20%? Doomed culture

I mean you're free to talk about whatever you want I can't stop you. To the extent the show is about race, that's relevant. But if this thread turns into another "Asian men are discriminated against" thread with a bonus of "Jews control everything", well that's just a shame because it won't be much use for discussion about the show.

Nobody would tell black or women lawyers and law students to shut up about the discrimination they believe that they face. I’m glad Asians are speaking up and I’m all ears.

This is a ridiculous comment. I said please don't ruin this thread about x (too late for that I guess) not don't ever talk about y.

[Res Ipsa Loquitter]

Hey can we keep this thread for the show? Understand the frustration expressed here but there is another lively thread devoted to the ethnic issues.

...Is the show not 50% sex/drama, 30% ethnic issues, and 20% law? So, what, you want us to talk about the 20%? Doomed culture

I mean you're free to talk about whatever you want I can't stop you. To the extent the show is about race, that's relevant. But if this thread turns into another "Asian men are discriminated against" thread with a bonus of "Jews control everything", well that's just a shame because it won't be much use for discussion about the show.

Nobody would tell black or women lawyers and law students to shut up about the discrimination they believe that they face. I’m glad Asians are speaking up and I’m all ears.

This is a ridiculous comment. I said please don't ruin this thread about x (too late for that I guess) not don't ever talk about y.

My comment was much less ridiculous than the trailer for this show. Stop anonymously policing the forum, and thanks in advance.

[Anonymous User]

Hey can we keep this thread for the show? Understand the frustration expressed here but there is another lively thread devoted to the ethnic issues.

...Is the show not 50% sex/drama, 30% ethnic issues, and 20% law? So, what, you want us to talk about the 20%? Doomed culture

I mean you're free to talk about whatever you want I can't stop you. To the extent the show is about race, that's relevant. But if this thread turns into another "Asian men are discriminated against" thread with a bonus of "Jews control everything", well that's just a shame because it won't be much use for discussion about the show.

Nobody would tell black or women lawyers and law students to shut up about the discrimination they believe that they face. I’m glad Asians are speaking up and I’m all ears.

This is a ridiculous comment. I said please don't ruin this thread about x (too late for that I guess) not don't ever talk about y.

It's pretty telling when you complain about people talking about race in a TV show that's meant to spark discussions on said race. Sincerely hope you're not in any leadership position. It's polluted enough.

But please, continue to try to redirect the conversation to MACs or whatever you gleam is more important from this obviously silly interpretation of the work lawyers do.

[Anonymous User]

Show is so cringe if you're a practicing lawyer. Is Marty Adler a nod to Lipton?

Author was at Paul Weiss in the pre-Barshay era. I don’t know if the character has much in common with Bob Schumer, but there are similarities (like the more accomplished brother). The cafe in the show is called the Jury Box/Room; I understand there’s something similar at PW. Plus all the stuff about diversity being a front was on the nose.

Out of curiosity, what's the significant distinction between PW pre- and post-Barshay? Is it a cultural "vibe", types of work/clients, or some combination of everything?

Anon to whom you're replying. (Anon for what should be obvious reasons.) I can't speak to culture or vibe - from the perspective of working at other firms, PW corporate has always seemed a pretty brutal place - but if the author had been there post-Barshay, it would be a lot easier to say that he was the archetype of the hard-charging rainmaker portrayed in the show. Given she was at PW from 1998-2000, Schumer seems a better fit.

[Anonymous User]

Maybe straight white men from certain religious/ethnic backgrounds can lay claim to having similar standards foisted upon them, but at least they have a huge presence in the field already, with parents, grandparents, etc. in the legal industry who provide inside
connections.

Huh? Are you seriously claiming that all straight white men have inside connections in the legal industry? I’d sure like to know where mine are, that would have been extremely useful when I was trying to start my career. I’m sure I must have rich parents I don’t know about too. What an incredibly fucking stupid comment.

[Res Ipsa Loquitter]

Maybe straight white men from certain religious/ethnic backgrounds can lay claim to having similar standards foisted upon them, but at least they have a huge presence in the field already, with parents, grandparents, etc. in the legal industry who provide inside
connections.

Huh? Are you seriously claiming that all straight white men have inside connections in the legal industry? I’d sure like to know where mine are, that would have been extremely useful when I was trying to start my career. I’m sure I must have rich parents I don’t know about too. What an incredibly fucking stupid comment.

When the princesses like the main character of this show refer to “white men” they are literally only thinking of upper class, tall, conventionally attractive white men. The rest are invisible and should probably become janitors or just commit suicide.

[Anonymous User]

Maybe straight white men from certain religious/ethnic backgrounds can lay claim to having similar standards foisted upon them, but at least they have a huge presence in the field already, with parents, grandparents, etc. in the legal industry who provide inside
connections.

Huh? Are you seriously claiming that all straight white men have inside connections in the legal industry? I’d sure like to know where mine are, that would have been extremely useful when I was trying to start my career. I’m sure I must have rich parents I don’t know about too. What an incredibly fucking stupid comment.

Another poster alluded to already, but I think s/he meant Jewish (maybe also WASP?) men.

[Anonymous User]

Maybe straight white men from certain religious/ethnic backgrounds can lay claim to having similar standards foisted upon them, but at least they have a huge presence in the field already, with parents, grandparents, etc. in the legal industry who provide inside
connections.

Huh? Are you seriously claiming that all straight white men have inside connections in the legal industry? I’d sure like to know where mine are, that would have been extremely useful when I was trying to start my career. I’m sure I must have rich parents I don’t know about too. What an incredibly fucking stupid comment.

Another poster alluded to already, but I think s/he meant Jewish (maybe also WASP?) men.

This. The whole point was to say that maybe Jewish or, more generally, white preppy male students are also expected to have excellent stats, similar to Asian male students - but that AT LEAST they have an established presence in BigLaw to offset that extra hurdle.

And it's honestly very telling that you immediately jumped to "oh I don't have rich parents" as a retort. I never said you need to have rich parents. Just having parents/relatives/family friends working in the legal industry, e.g. in MidLaw, gives you earlier access to and more knowledge of how everything works AND EVEN IF YOU HAVE NO CONNECTIONS, you're a lot more likely to benefit from an older [likely white male] hiring partner looking at you and either "clicking" with you more during interviews because you share similar interests or "seeing himself in you" or whatever intangible ways we all know unconscious biases kick into effect.

[Anonymous User]

Maybe straight white men from certain religious/ethnic backgrounds can lay claim to having similar standards foisted upon them, but at least they have a huge presence in the field already, with parents, grandparents, etc. in the legal industry who provide inside
connections.

Huh? Are you seriously claiming that all straight white men have inside connections in the legal industry? I’d sure like to know where mine are, that would have been extremely useful when I was trying to start my career. I’m sure I must have rich parents I don’t know about too. What an incredibly fucking stupid comment.

Another poster alluded to already, but I think s/he meant Jewish (maybe also WASP?) men.

This. The whole point was to say that maybe Jewish or, more generally, white preppy male students are also expected to have excellent stats, similar to Asian male students - but that AT LEAST they have an established presence in BigLaw to offset that extra hurdle.

And it's honestly very telling that you immediately jumped to "oh I don't have rich parents" as a retort. I never said you need to have rich parents. Just having parents/relatives/family friends working in the legal industry, e.g. in MidLaw, gives you earlier access to and more knowledge of how everything works AND EVEN IF YOU HAVE NO CONNECTIONS, you're a lot more likely to benefit from an older [likely white male] hiring partner looking at you and either "clicking" with you more during interviews because you share similar interests or "seeing himself in you" or whatever intangible ways we all know unconscious biases kick into effect.

Same anon. Your last bit about unconscious biases - sure that’s a thing that exists. Not sure how material it is in career differences, but it’s a valid point to raise.

But I was responding to your assertion that straight white men have legal industry connections and therefore that balances out difficulty in other areas. Which is asinine. From my anecdotal sample, the vast majority of straight white men I know from law school and my firm do not have friends and family in law (and if they do, it’s often people outside BigLaw who have no power and no grand advice to give).

I brought up rich parents because that’s another extremely common stereotype that gets tossed around, and I wanted to raise it before you did. There is this attitude that all straight white men come from money and privilege, and you’re now going a step further and claiming that we all also have legal industry connections that provide career assistance and valuable advice. Ludicrous.

If that’s not what you meant, and you were really just referring to the usual implicit bias stuff, then great. But that is very clearly not what you said originally, so that would mean you’re just spouting nonsense.

As a straight white man who came from no money and had zero friends, family, or acquaintances in law, (first gen) I resent you and your insinuation that my success is based on my race/gender/sexuality. The implication is that it is unearned because it must be that my family helped me or the partners like me because of my inherent characteristics. That’s just as offensive as assuming that a black lawyer only succeeds because of affirmative action.

[Anonymous User]

Maybe straight white men from certain religious/ethnic backgrounds can lay claim to having similar standards foisted upon them, but at least they have a huge presence in the field already, with parents, grandparents, etc. in the legal industry who provide inside
connections.

Huh? Are you seriously claiming that all straight white men have inside connections in the legal industry? I’d sure like to know where mine are, that would have been extremely useful when I was trying to start my career. I’m sure I must have rich parents I don’t know about too. What an incredibly fucking stupid comment.

Another poster alluded to already, but I think s/he meant Jewish (maybe also WASP?) men.

This. The whole point was to say that maybe Jewish or, more generally, white preppy male students are also expected to have excellent stats, similar to Asian male students - but that AT LEAST they have an established presence in BigLaw to offset that extra hurdle.

And it's honestly very telling that you immediately jumped to "oh I don't have rich parents" as a retort. I never said you need to have rich parents. Just having parents/relatives/family friends working in the legal industry, e.g. in MidLaw, gives you earlier access to and more knowledge of how everything works AND EVEN IF YOU HAVE NO CONNECTIONS, you're a lot more likely to benefit from an older [likely white male] hiring partner looking at you and either "clicking" with you more during interviews because you share similar interests or "seeing himself in you" or whatever intangible ways we all know unconscious biases kick into effect.

Same anon. Your last bit about unconscious biases - sure that’s a thing that exists. Not sure how material it is in career differences, but it’s a valid point to raise.

But I was responding to your assertion that straight white men have legal industry connections and therefore that balances out difficulty in other areas. Which is asinine. From my anecdotal sample, the vast majority of straight white men I know from law school and my firm do not have friends and family in law (and if they do, it’s often people outside BigLaw who have no power and no grand advice to give).

I brought up rich parents because that’s another extremely common stereotype that gets tossed around, and I wanted to raise it before you did. There is this attitude that all straight white men come from money and privilege, and you’re now going a step further and claiming that we all also have legal industry connections that provide career assistance and valuable advice. Ludicrous.

If that’s not what you meant, and you were really just referring to the usual implicit bias stuff, then great. But that is very clearly not what you said originally, so that would mean you’re just spouting nonsense.

As a straight white man who came from no money and had zero friends, family, or acquaintances in law, (first gen) I resent you and your insinuation that my success is based on my race/gender/sexuality. The implication is that it is unearned because it must be that my family helped me or the partners like me because of my inherent characteristics. That’s just as offensive as assuming that a black lawyer only succeeds because of affirmative action.

OK, appreciate the clarification. I agree with you, and apologies for the miscommunication. I was talking about a more specific group of people then - those with connections, if not through direct family, then maybe family friends and the like. Forgive me, but these white men seem to be quite overrepresented at the school I graduated from and from similar schools. I of course agree with you that there are people like you who started off with little or nothing - often from an even worse position, at least financially, than the children of many Asian immigrant families - and who got to where you are today through hard work.

[Anonymous User]

Maybe straight white men from certain religious/ethnic backgrounds can lay claim to having similar standards foisted upon them, but at least they have a huge presence in the field already, with parents, grandparents, etc. in the legal industry who provide inside
connections.

Huh? Are you seriously claiming that all straight white men have inside connections in the legal industry? I’d sure like to know where mine are, that would have been extremely useful when I was trying to start my career. I’m sure I must have rich parents I don’t know about too. What an incredibly fucking stupid comment.

Another poster alluded to already, but I think s/he meant Jewish (maybe also WASP?) men.

Yeah the "from certain religious/ethnic backgrounds can lay claim to having similar standards foisted upon them" was obviously just a long way of saying Jewish and the "all your family already has connections to biglaw" was stereotypical antisemitism, textbook almost.

For the record I am Jewish and nobody in my family are attorneys let alone biglaw. My grandfather's generation could not have been in biglaw because white shoe firms at the time refused to hire Jews. Whatever the stats are for Jews in biglaw currently (are you going through and making lists with star of David like a 4chan person?? Creepy) it doesn't help me and in fact hurts me because people say there's enough of us. I am just one person who got good grades in ug, good LSAT score, good grades in law school, do not qualify for any diversity and faced discrimination at every step of the way. There's no secret cabal that controls the world, sorry to disappoint.

[Anonymous User]

This is more a commentary on our failing education system in America but at Stanford, where I go to school, you get the sense that the % of rich and connected students is roughly equivalent across demographics. Of course, privilege rears its head in all sorts of different ways so this is not a commentary on that.

I'm a POC and it is shocking to me that the two most vocal anti big law voices, who both happen to be PoC, are exorbitantly, to the full effect of the word, wealthy.

[Anonymous User]

Maybe straight white men from certain religious/ethnic backgrounds can lay claim to having similar standards foisted upon them, but at least they have a huge presence in the field already, with parents, grandparents, etc. in the legal industry who provide inside
connections.

Huh? Are you seriously claiming that all straight white men have inside connections in the legal industry? I’d sure like to know where mine are, that would have been extremely useful when I was trying to start my career. I’m sure I must have rich parents I don’t know about too. What an incredibly fucking stupid comment.

Another poster alluded to already, but I think s/he meant Jewish (maybe also WASP?) men.

This. The whole point was to say that maybe Jewish or, more generally, white preppy male students are also expected to have excellent stats, similar to Asian male students - but that AT LEAST they have an established presence in BigLaw to offset that extra hurdle.

And it's honestly very telling that you immediately jumped to "oh I don't have rich parents" as a retort. I never said you need to have rich parents. Just having parents/relatives/family friends working in the legal industry, e.g. in MidLaw, gives you earlier access to and more knowledge of how everything works AND EVEN IF YOU HAVE NO CONNECTIONS, you're a lot more likely to benefit from an older [likely white male] hiring partner looking at you and either "clicking" with you more during interviews because you share similar interests or "seeing himself in you" or whatever intangible ways we all know unconscious biases kick into effect.

Same anon. Your last bit about unconscious biases - sure that’s a thing that exists. Not sure how material it is in career differences, but it’s a valid point to raise.

But I was responding to your assertion that straight white men have legal industry connections and therefore that balances out difficulty in other areas. Which is asinine. From my anecdotal sample, the vast majority of straight white men I know from law school and my firm do not have friends and family in law (and if they do, it’s often people outside BigLaw who have no power and no grand advice to give).

I brought up rich parents because that’s another extremely common stereotype that gets tossed around, and I wanted to raise it before you did. There is this attitude that all straight white men come from money and privilege, and you’re now going a step further and claiming that we all also have legal industry connections that provide career assistance and valuable advice. Ludicrous.

If that’s not what you meant, and you were really just referring to the usual implicit bias stuff, then great. But that is very clearly not what you said originally, so that would mean you’re just spouting nonsense.

As a straight white man who came from no money and had zero friends, family, or acquaintances in law, (first gen) I resent you and your insinuation that my success is based on my race/gender/sexuality. The implication is that it is unearned because it must be that my family helped me or the partners like me because of my inherent characteristics. That’s just as offensive as assuming that a black lawyer only succeeds because of affirmative action.

OK, appreciate the clarification. I agree with you, and apologies for the miscommunication. I was talking about a more specific group of people then - those with connections, if not through direct family, then maybe family friends and the like. Forgive me, but these white men seem to be quite overrepresented at the school I graduated from and from similar schools. I of course agree with you that there are people like you who started off with little or nothing - often from an even worse position, at least financially, than the children of many Asian immigrant families - and who got to where you are today through hard work.

Thank you for a thoughtful response, it’s nice to have some healthy discussion on here for once, where people come to understand each other and agree on things. I think we’re on the same page now

[Res Ipsa Loquitter]

This is more a commentary on our failing education system in America but at Stanford, where I go to school, you get the sense that the % of rich and connected students is roughly equivalent across demographics. Of course, privilege rears its head in all sorts of different ways so this is not a commentary on that.

I'm a POC and it is shocking to me that the two most vocal anti big law voices, who both happen to be PoC, are exorbitantly, to the full effect of the word, wealthy.

Correct. Affirmative Action is for rich kids. The Hispanic students at my law school were whiter than most white people I know. And the black students mostly found the cash to online shop during class and order Uber Eats every night.

[Anonymous User]

Things have been shifting at YLS. The Dean has mentioned the need to reconsider the school's approach to financial aid because of the number of first gen students.

[glitched]

This show is so bad. The Grey’s Anatomy comparison is apt, though that one was at least good for the first couple seasons.

I wrote an outline for a pilot for a comedy that’s more like Scrubs that tries to accurately show the mundane bullshit that is big law. But I heard Partner Track was announced so I shelved it. Might have to pick it back up again.

[becodalapa]

Things have been shifting at YLS. The Dean has mentioned the need to reconsider the school's approach to financial aid because of the number of first gen students.

I can't tell if you mean the number is too high or too low...

[DildaMan]

My wife loves A1 Steak Sauce so I don't bring her to firm events...

[Lacepiece23]

This is more a commentary on our failing education system in America but at Stanford, where I go to school, you get the sense that the % of rich and connected students is roughly equivalent across demographics. Of course, privilege rears its head in all sorts of different ways so this is not a commentary on that.

I'm a POC and it is shocking to me that the two most vocal anti big law voices, who both happen to be PoC, are exorbitantly, to the full effect of the word, wealthy.

Correct. Affirmative Action is for rich kids. The Hispanic students at my law school were whiter than most white people I know. And the black students mostly found the cash to online shop during class and order Uber Eats every night.

Affirmative action isn't about socio economic status dummy.

[Res Ipsa Loquitter]

This is more a commentary on our failing education system in America but at Stanford, where I go to school, you get the sense that the % of rich and connected students is roughly equivalent across demographics. Of course, privilege rears its head in all sorts of different ways so this is not a commentary on that.

I'm a POC and it is shocking to me that the two most vocal anti big law voices, who both happen to be PoC, are exorbitantly, to the full effect of the word, wealthy.

Correct. Affirmative Action is for rich kids. The Hispanic students at my law school were whiter than most white people I know. And the black students mostly found the cash to online shop during class and order Uber Eats every night.

Affirmative action isn't about socio economic status dummy.

That was the point of my post. Whoosh. However you rig a game, richer people are best positioned to win it.

[Anonymous User]

You know having gone through law review selection and sitting through debates about candidates with our holistic selection process I was a little appalled at the way some of my progressive colleagues framed Asian and Jewish diversity statements. There were comments made that were dismissive of Asians dealing with adversity in comparison to other groups and some weird comments about Jews especially one about wealth distribution and how law is about building generational wealth and Jews already have a lot wealth so they should not be helped. Yes, that comment was quickly shut down by others but in a way that suggested it was the framing that was wrong and not the content. And then on the other side you had some people making insensitive statements about affirmative action and how it dilutes the brand of the law review, which, was harmful (this was more from the fed soc types) as opposed from the Jewish/Asian comments which were not.

Thankfully it was a very small minority of editors who engaged in this behavior, but I must say the whole thing felt like a complete mess and while I still think affirmative action and considerations of race are important for admissions and other criteria I am way more sympathetic now of those who argue that these programs can be hijacked by those who wish to exclude or limit the number of Jews and Asians.

Anyways, just thought I would put my 2¢ in.

[Anonymous User]

You know having gone through law review selection and sitting through debates about candidates with our holistic selection process I was a little appalled at the way some of my progressive colleagues framed Asian and Jewish diversity statements. There were comments made that were dismissive of Asians dealing with adversity in comparison to other groups and some weird comments about Jews especially one about wealth distribution and how law is about building generational wealth and Jews already have a lot wealth so they should not be helped. Yes, that comment was quickly shut down by others but in a way that suggested it was the framing that was wrong and not the content. And then on the other side you had some people making insensitive statements about affirmative action and how it dilutes the brand of the law review, which, was harmful (this was more from the fed soc types) as opposed from the Jewish/Asian comments which were not.

Thankfully it was a very small minority of editors who engaged in this behavior, but I must say the whole thing felt like a complete mess and while I still think affirmative action and considerations of race are important for admissions and other criteria I am way more sympathetic now of those who argue that these programs can be hijacked by those who wish to exclude or limit the number of Jews and Asians.

Anyways, just thought I would put my 2¢ in.

Many, many people secretly think these thoughts. They just have the good sense not to say any of it out loud in polite company.

[lavarman84]

Another thing that was annoying was the IP litigator (the gay black friend) getting self-righteous about the other associate's stand-up routine at the office retreat. Whether something is offensive in the workplace is up to everyone in the workplace reasonably considering it, not just the people most offended. Lawyers, of all people, understand that.

Woof. Bad take.

[LittleRedCorvette]

Another thing that was annoying was the IP litigator (the gay black friend) getting self-righteous about the other associate's stand-up routine at the office retreat. Whether something is offensive in the workplace is up to everyone in the workplace reasonably considering it, not just the people most offended. Lawyers, of all people, understand that.

Woof. Bad take.

I am a dog-man and am offended that you used my people's language in your post.

[Anonymous User]

You know having gone through law review selection and sitting through debates about candidates with our holistic selection process I was a little appalled at the way some of my progressive colleagues framed Asian and Jewish diversity statements. There were comments made that were dismissive of Asians dealing with adversity in comparison to other groups and some weird comments about Jews especially one about wealth distribution and how law is about building generational wealth and Jews already have a lot wealth so they should not be helped. Yes, that comment was quickly shut down by others but in a way that suggested it was the framing that was wrong and not the content. And then on the other side you had some people making insensitive statements about affirmative action and how it dilutes the brand of the law review, which, was harmful (this was more from the fed soc types) as opposed from the Jewish/Asian comments which were not.

Thankfully it was a very small minority of editors who engaged in this behavior, but I must say the whole thing felt like a complete mess and while I still think affirmative action and considerations of race are important for admissions and other criteria I am way more sympathetic now of those who argue that these programs can be hijacked by those who wish to exclude or limit the number of Jews and Asians.

Anyways, just thought I would put my 2¢ in.

Many, many people secretly think these thoughts. They just have the good sense not to say any of it out loud in polite company.

Person you're replying to. Unfortunately you're probably right and those are the mot dangerous because they are much more effective in their agendas whether it be discriminating against African-Americans, Jews, Asians, etc...