Summers: please review your firm's summer program Forum

[Anonymous User]

K&E Chicago

Good:

- a lot of flexibility in the work you do (you choose how substantive you want your assignments to be)
- you'll always find associates that want to grab lunch or dinner
- great cafeteria (everything is free! a lot of people took food and bottled coffee home regularly, I didn't pay for food at all this summer)
- flexibility in the time you started and ended work
- super accommodating recruiting team
- large meal budgets
- helpful practice assistants for each summer
- robust practice area-specific training (in litigation we had the KITA program, it was intense and the best time I had all summer, restructuring goes to a mock board in NY, corporate does an intense negotiation event)

+1, especially the great cafeteria. Some meals there were even better than the lunches out. Really got a sense of the free-market system—you get to choose, at least to the extent that you're meeting the right people and asking.

Bad:

- weekly required breakfast meetings for all 100 summers (nothing happened during these)
- cringe orientation activities
- crappy gifts and summer swag
- more than a handful of insufferable summers

I didn't think the orientation activities were any more cringe than the typical corporate icebreaker stuff, and I'd say there were fewer insufferable summers than expected. (Hope this isn't one of those if-you-don't-know-then-it's-you situations!) I definitely wouldn't want the Sidley AirPods, but the swag/gifts were totally fine rather than remarkable—though personally I liked the most unique swag.

I'd add:

• Lack of info about who is working on what made it hard to figure out who to reach out to/get to know. Would have rather had a people database than an assignment database.
• Too few practice-group-specific events compared to events with all the summers.
• Attorney attendance at events seemed low.

Neutral:

- heavy drinking culture that might not be for everyone
- seemed like we had more social events than my peers at other V10 firms

Definitely a lot of social events, mostly oriented toward big groups and a cocktail party/mixer vibe. But there were plenty of people that didn't drink, didn't stay for long, or didn't show up to all the events. We were told not to worry about going to everything, and the firm-catered events always had mocktails. I'm sure people felt some implicit pressure to drink or to be going to everything, but for me at least that was all internal.

[Anonymous User]

Look if you want to decide on a firm based on the summer experience you can. But it's extremely silly to end up at a sweatshop getting burnt out earlier just because people on the internet said the summer was fun. You're getting played by the firm for a sucker.

As for those claiming they aren't going back, sounds a lot like the kids who really want to do PI, see, but let's check out OCI for fun. Ten years later, they're still in biglaw telling themselves it's temporary.

What about the OP suggests you should pick a firm based on the summer program? Genuinely curious as to what set you off. TBH it sounds like you must have made the mistake you discuss above, because I can't imagine anybody else being so insufferably persistent about something nobody disputes and that's only tangentially relevant to the OP.

That was in direct response to "If you are going to have to slog it out as an associate regardless, then why not pick a firm with a kickass summer program?"

Do you really want to do a "who started it?" You know as well as I that you were suggesting people shouldn't care about these reviews long before I posted it, so stop kidding yourself. I don't see how you keep missing that we all AGREEE with you that it's dumb to pick a firm based on a summer program. All I said is all else held equal, it could be a factor. If you want to talk about that, go start another thread.

The only remaining question is what triggered you so hard that you care this much about whether other people review summer programs on a random online forum? There's literally nothing else to dispute.

[Anonymous User]

I'd add:

• Lack of info about who is working on what made it hard to figure out who to reach out to/get to know. Would have rather had a people database than an assignment database.
• Too few practice-group-specific events compared to events with all the summers.
• Attorney attendance at events seemed low.

Definitely a lot of social events, mostly oriented toward big groups and a cocktail party/mixer vibe. But there were plenty of people that didn't drink, didn't stay for long, or didn't show up to all the events. We were told not to worry about going to everything, and the firm-catered events always had mocktails. I'm sure people felt some implicit pressure to drink or to be going to everything, but for me at least that was all internal.

KE summer in chi too.

Something to add:
- I was a lit summer but loved the flexibility of being able to go to lunch or dinner with associates and summers from other groups. I'm sure this is common at every firm but I went to quite a few dinners and lunches with other practice groups.
- This might be a controversial topic but there seems to be some friendly rivalry between practice groups. I got the sense that both lit and restructuring look down on corporate. Lit associates and partners seem to have more respect for restructuring attorneys than corporate attorneys.
- I don't think there were too many insufferable summers but the ones that were seemed to be in litigation (unfortunately for me) and the frat bros were predictably in corporate

Notes on points already made:
+1 on the attendance to social events being optional. I missed more than a few this summer and no one cared.

+1 on a lack of attorneys showing up to events. I think this is practice area specific, though. In Lit I was disappointed in the turnout of associates at some of these larger events. Part of the reason I didn't go.

+1 on heavy drinking culture that was initially mentioned. Everyone was mature about those deciding not to drink and I didn't feel any pressure. But I hung out with a few restructuring and corporate summers throughout the program and there was a bar on the 24th floor and a beer tap on the 6th that was heavily utilized by summers. In general, every event I went to or dinner I went to with restructuring or corporate attorneys was followed by a bar where everyone, associates included, could barely walk as they stepped out.

[Anonymous User]

Cool, another Kirkland thread...

[Anonymous User]

Cool, another Kirkland thread...

Would love for summers from other firms to contribute.

And for all the back and forth in this thread about whether there is any predictive value or purpose to this thread -- who cares? I'm a 2L but I would have appreciated a thread like this to better understand what to expect from the summer. May have reduced the number of annoying questions I asked on here.

[Anonymous User]

I was a summer at DPW last year and have a friend who was there in 2020, so I'm interested how an in-person summer goes down there if anyone wants to pipe in.

[Antetrust]

Love this thread - it gets TLS in a nutshell. OP was looking for insight into summer programs. A third of the responses bickered about whether the question matters, a third of the responses are about KE, and the rest go down some tangent about sheltering the summers. 11/10 this is why I come here.

lol my thoughts exactly

[Anonymous User]

Cool, another Kirkland thread...

Well, it had a massive summer class and is over represented in TLS anyway. That being said, it only takes one summer from a different firm posting here to diversify the discussion...

[Anonymous User]

K&E Chicago

Good:
- a lot of flexibility in the work you do (you choose how substantive you want your assignments to be)
- you'll always find associates that want to grab lunch or dinner
- great cafeteria (everything is free! a lot of people took food and bottled coffee home regularly, I didn't pay for food at all this summer)
- flexibility in the time you started and ended work
- super accommodating recruiting team
- large meal budgets
- helpful practice assistants for each summer
- robust practice area-specific training (in litigation we had the KITA program, it was intense and the best time I had all summer, restructuring goes to a mock board in NY, corporate does an intense negotiation event)


Bad:
- weekly required breakfast meetings for all 100 summers (nothing happened during these)
- cringe orientation activities
- crappy gifts and summer swag
- more than a handful of insufferable summers

Neutral observations:
- heavy drinking culture that might not be for everyone
- seemed like we had more social events than my peers at other V10 firms

Also KE Chicago here. Didn’t mind the breakfast meetings, but everything else tracks in my opinion - though I really didn’t find more than a couple corporate/Rx summers to be insufferable. Special echo to the atrocious summer gifts.

Couple notes to add:
- they 100% purposely hid some associates from the summers for a variety of reasons (i.e., weird)
- re associate life - firm is massive. some people get by billing low 2000s and have great teams/enjoy their life, other teams are brutal and associates are closer to 3000 hours. really depends on what teams you latch on to.
- remote work is really flexible. office is completely dead M/F and about 60% full Tues-Thurs. Many associates still just don’t come in.
- funds group was recruiting really hard - was overbearing/uncomfortable at times
- really no billable expectation for summers. you could probably get an offer by billing 15 hours the entire summer lol

Overall I had a great summer, if I had to slap a grade on it I’d go A-.

Edit: Also want to add that you (rising 2Ls) should be careful/skeptical about what you read and hear from second-hand sources. I had folks from outside the program asking me about rumors that were either totally exaggerated or blatantly false.

Funny how some things remain true. Even like five years ago at my KE Chicago summer (I’ve left the firm) funds was recruiting really aggressively and it was cringe.

The funny part is that having been in the industry for a few years Funds is actually a decent group with some of the better predictability and hours in Biglaw, with solid PE exits I think they recruit so hard because the junior work is pretty boring and lame I suppose.

[Anonymous User]

K&E Chicago

Good:
- a lot of flexibility in the work you do (you choose how substantive you want your assignments to be)
- you'll always find associates that want to grab lunch or dinner
- great cafeteria (everything is free! a lot of people took food and bottled coffee home regularly, I didn't pay for food at all this summer)
- flexibility in the time you started and ended work
- super accommodating recruiting team
- large meal budgets
- helpful practice assistants for each summer
- robust practice area-specific training (in litigation we had the KITA program, it was intense and the best time I had all summer, restructuring goes to a mock board in NY, corporate does an intense negotiation event)


Bad:
- weekly required breakfast meetings for all 100 summers (nothing happened during these)
- cringe orientation activities
- crappy gifts and summer swag
- more than a handful of insufferable summers

Neutral observations:
- heavy drinking culture that might not be for everyone
- seemed like we had more social events than my peers at other V10 firms

Also KE Chicago here. Didn’t mind the breakfast meetings, but everything else tracks in my opinion - though I really didn’t find more than a couple corporate/Rx summers to be insufferable. Special echo to the atrocious summer gifts.

Couple notes to add:
- they 100% purposely hid some associates from the summers for a variety of reasons (i.e., weird)
- re associate life - firm is massive. some people get by billing low 2000s and have great teams/enjoy their life, other teams are brutal and associates are closer to 3000 hours. really depends on what teams you latch on to.
- remote work is really flexible. office is completely dead M/F and about 60% full Tues-Thurs. Many associates still just don’t come in.
- funds group was recruiting really hard - was overbearing/uncomfortable at times
- really no billable expectation for summers. you could probably get an offer by billing 15 hours the entire summer lol

Overall I had a great summer, if I had to slap a grade on it I’d go A-.

Edit: Also want to add that you (rising 2Ls) should be careful/skeptical about what you read and hear from second-hand sources. I had folks from outside the program asking me about rumors that were either totally exaggerated or blatantly false.

How does a firm purposefully hide associates from summers? How do you know unless you were hidden? That’s a weird thing to say.

Purposefully hid sounds maybe a bit too deliberate but there are associates that are weird or unpleasant at KE who definitely don’t go to things and have their doors closed all summer who also don’t get any I’d individual mentions from other lawyers or recruiters to summers, nor do they get any individual emails asking them if they want to attend an event. So it’s more that they’re not inclined to do summer interaction and recruiting/firm don’t try to change that.

[Anonymous User]

I'd add:

• Lack of info about who is working on what made it hard to figure out who to reach out to/get to know. Would have rather had a people database than an assignment database.
• Too few practice-group-specific events compared to events with all the summers.
• Attorney attendance at events seemed low.

Definitely a lot of social events, mostly oriented toward big groups and a cocktail party/mixer vibe. But there were plenty of people that didn't drink, didn't stay for long, or didn't show up to all the events. We were told not to worry about going to everything, and the firm-catered events always had mocktails. I'm sure people felt some implicit pressure to drink or to be going to everything, but for me at least that was all internal.

KE summer in chi too.

Something to add:
- I was a lit summer but loved the flexibility of being able to go to lunch or dinner with associates and summers from other groups. I'm sure this is common at every firm but I went to quite a few dinners and lunches with other practice groups.
- This might be a controversial topic but there seems to be some friendly rivalry between practice groups. I got the sense that both lit and restructuring look down on corporate. Lit associates and partners seem to have more respect for restructuring attorneys than corporate attorneys.
- I don't think there were too many insufferable summers but the ones that were seemed to be in litigation (unfortunately for me) and the frat bros were predictably in corporate

Notes on points already made:
+1 on the attendance to social events being optional. I missed more than a few this summer and no one cared.

+1 on a lack of attorneys showing up to events. I think this is practice area specific, though. In Lit I was disappointed in the turnout of associates at some of these larger events. Part of the reason I didn't go.

+1 on heavy drinking culture that was initially mentioned. Everyone was mature about those deciding not to drink and I didn't feel any pressure. But I hung out with a few restructuring and corporate summers throughout the program and there was a bar on the 24th floor and a beer tap on the 6th that was heavily utilized by summers. In general, every event I went to or dinner I went to with restructuring or corporate attorneys was followed by a bar where everyone, associates included, could barely walk as they stepped out.

Former Rx here - heavy party culture on that group. Everyone’s jokes that Bud Light is the Rx sponsor and every KE associate has a memory of a night ending disappointingly at Boss Bar.

I personally really liked the work hard play hard culture - it helped me make friends that I still keep up with today , but absolutely not for everyone (and be warned that it’s an actual part of real practice in that group, not just a summer thing”)