UVA bidlist critique Forum

[Anonymous User]

2. Cov DC - very liberal
5. Williams & Connolly - not for regulatory
6. Arnold & Porter DC - very liberal
11. Hogan DC - should be higher
13. Wiley Rein - should be higher, regulatory and conservative
15. Cleary NY - do they let you bid two offices? check; they didn't previously
18. STB NY - good safety
19. Jones Day DC - should be higher
20. Kirkland Chicago - confirm can do >1 office?
21. Sidley Chicago - same; DC should
23. Quinn DC - delete
24. PW DC - litigation is liberal there...
30. Caplin & Drysdale DC - delete, only does tax
31. McGuireWoods DC - all the dc firms in your 30s should be higher imo... why put chicago over these...?
43. White & Case DC - higher, big class = better odds, this goes for everything in here

some thoughts in the quote from someone who bid NY and DC from UVA

your best bets are probably gibson kirkland JD wiley sidley

curious what gpa makes you think you're 5-7% given uva doesn't tell you that sort of info

This is OP.

The 5-7 % mark is an educated guess based on conversations with upperclassmen and the old data leak. I suppose you could increase the confidence interval by making it 5-10 %.

To clarify, I don't want political/ideological affiliation to be the primary filter in these decisions (aside from avoiding progressive-aligned lit boutiques). Moreover, I'm not sure that each characterization is totally accurate. Not disparaging your advice, which is helpful, but several upperclassmen with very desirable conservative appellate clerkships summered at cov, and PW DC seems to have a decent contingent of conservatives.

Whether you feel comfortable socially at your firm should be a large consideration Don’t discount it

What I meant re Paul comma weiss is that its firm wide litigation group is proudly liberal … again, being comfortable socially is essential for enjoying the job imo, So do with that what you will

This is OP. I totally agree, and PW's reputation for liberalism is a factor to consider, but I don't know if it's wise to take them out of the running entirely, especially given that there really aren't other firms (in DC, NY or otherwise) that I'm desperate to include. Honestly, I'm only *truly* interested in the top twenty/thirty firms or so on the list, so it makes sense to throw in PW because 1) they have a strong litigation group, 2) I may get along with the people in that group despite political differences.

[Anonymous User]

2. Cov DC - very liberal
5. Williams & Connolly - not for regulatory
6. Arnold & Porter DC - very liberal
11. Hogan DC - should be higher
13. Wiley Rein - should be higher, regulatory and conservative
15. Cleary NY - do they let you bid two offices? check; they didn't previously
18. STB NY - good safety
19. Jones Day DC - should be higher
20. Kirkland Chicago - confirm can do >1 office?
21. Sidley Chicago - same; DC should
23. Quinn DC - delete
24. PW DC - litigation is liberal there...
30. Caplin & Drysdale DC - delete, only does tax
31. McGuireWoods DC - all the dc firms in your 30s should be higher imo... why put chicago over these...?
43. White & Case DC - higher, big class = better odds, this goes for everything in here

some thoughts in the quote from someone who bid NY and DC from UVA

your best bets are probably gibson kirkland JD wiley sidley

curious what gpa makes you think you're 5-7% given uva doesn't tell you that sort of info

This is OP.

The 5-7 % mark is an educated guess based on conversations with upperclassmen and the old data leak. I suppose you could increase the confidence interval by making it 5-10 %.

To clarify, I don't want political/ideological affiliation to be the primary filter in these decisions (aside from avoiding progressive-aligned lit boutiques). Moreover, I'm not sure that each characterization is totally accurate. Not disparaging your advice, which is helpful, but several upperclassmen with very desirable conservative appellate clerkships summered at cov, and PW DC seems to have a decent contingent of conservatives.

Whether you feel comfortable socially at your firm should be a large consideration Don’t discount it

What I meant re Paul comma weiss is that its firm wide litigation group is proudly liberal … again, being comfortable socially is essential for enjoying the job imo, So do with that what you will

This is OP. I totally agree, and PW's reputation for liberalism is a factor to consider, but I don't know if it's wise to take them out of the running entirely, especially given that there really aren't other firms (in DC, NY or otherwise) that I'm desperate to include. Honestly, I'm only *truly* interested in the top twenty/thirty firms or so on the list, so it makes sense to throw in PW because 1) they have a strong litigation group, 2) I may get along with the people in that group despite political differences.

I'm a mid/senior associate who has worked alongside PW lit teams fairly often. If political orientation is enough of a factor for you, personally, to consider in this choice and use as a criterion at all, then I'm fairly confident the bolded will turn out to be inaccurate: that is, you will not get along with lots of PW lit associates as colleagues day-to-day, or at least it will be something you'll have to make an effort to be ok with.

[Anonymous User]

2. Cov DC - very liberal
5. Williams & Connolly - not for regulatory
6. Arnold & Porter DC - very liberal
11. Hogan DC - should be higher
13. Wiley Rein - should be higher, regulatory and conservative
15. Cleary NY - do they let you bid two offices? check; they didn't previously
18. STB NY - good safety
19. Jones Day DC - should be higher
20. Kirkland Chicago - confirm can do >1 office?
21. Sidley Chicago - same; DC should
23. Quinn DC - delete
24. PW DC - litigation is liberal there...
30. Caplin & Drysdale DC - delete, only does tax
31. McGuireWoods DC - all the dc firms in your 30s should be higher imo... why put chicago over these...?
43. White & Case DC - higher, big class = better odds, this goes for everything in here

some thoughts in the quote from someone who bid NY and DC from UVA

your best bets are probably gibson kirkland JD wiley sidley

curious what gpa makes you think you're 5-7% given uva doesn't tell you that sort of info

This is OP.

The 5-7 % mark is an educated guess based on conversations with upperclassmen and the old data leak. I suppose you could increase the confidence interval by making it 5-10 %.

To clarify, I don't want political/ideological affiliation to be the primary filter in these decisions (aside from avoiding progressive-aligned lit boutiques). Moreover, I'm not sure that each characterization is totally accurate. Not disparaging your advice, which is helpful, but several upperclassmen with very desirable conservative appellate clerkships summered at cov, and PW DC seems to have a decent contingent of conservatives.

Whether you feel comfortable socially at your firm should be a large consideration Don’t discount it

What I meant re Paul comma weiss is that its firm wide litigation group is proudly liberal … again, being comfortable socially is essential for enjoying the job imo, So do with that what you will

This is OP. I totally agree, and PW's reputation for liberalism is a factor to consider, but I don't know if it's wise to take them out of the running entirely, especially given that there really aren't other firms (in DC, NY or otherwise) that I'm desperate to include. Honestly, I'm only *truly* interested in the top twenty/thirty firms or so on the list, so it makes sense to throw in PW because 1) they have a strong litigation group, 2) I may get along with the people in that group despite political differences.

I'm a mid/senior associate who has worked alongside PW lit teams fairly often. If political orientation is enough of a factor for you, personally, to consider in this choice and use as a criterion at all, then I'm fairly confident the bolded will turn out to be inaccurate: that is, you will not get along with lots of PW lit associates as colleagues day-to-day, or at least it will be something you'll have to make an effort to be ok with.

how often does politics come up day to day on a lit matter?

[Anonymous User]

At PW, more than you think. LGBTQ+ kids bedtime story time on Zoom 3x/week invites.

[Anonymous User]

how often does politics come up day to day on a lit matter?

I don't know, but Kannon is a very good person to know and I've been told makes himself very available to summers at PW. Additionally, if you hate everyone else there after the summer, you can always interview somewhere else after clerking.

[Anonymous User]

It's not just that "politics comes up" as though you sit at a table and debate gun rights or abortion. Its more the small talk, the jokes you make, the passing references, everyday life anchors like stories about your kids/spouse, current events, etc. -- the everyday chit-chat that comes with working with folks in the same office on the same work for long periods of time. It's....human stuff. A lot of it is inflected with your political views, consciously or not. And yes, sometimes politics itself does directly come up, and at a place like PW more often than a place like, say, WLRK or S&C.

[Robot]

I assume someone who has presumably navigated a very liberal law school, and probably a very liberal undergrad, will also be fine navigating a very liberal law firm. I doubt it's possible to be a conservative in the elite legal world without being basically used to it. There are even some conservatives at Jenner and Kaplan Hecker, let alone Paul Weiss.

[Anonymous User]

I assume someone who has presumably navigated a very liberal law school, and probably a very liberal undergrad, will also be fine navigating a very liberal law firm. I doubt it's possible to be a conservative in the elite legal world without being basically used to it. There are even some conservatives at Jenner and Kaplan Hecker, let alone Paul Weiss.

This is OP. This is basically accurate - I'm not really a fish out of water in liberal-leaning places at this point in my life (though I would certainly not call UVA "very liberal.") Aside from the chance to network with Kannon (a bona fide appellate rockstar) there just aren't any other firms coming to OGI that I'm *dying* to include on the bidlist, so might as well bid PW on the off chance that I like it there.

[Anonymous User]

Not detracting from Kannon at all, but remember that a lot of firms in you T10 have prolific appellate litigators to rub elbows with. K&E has Paul Clement (100+ SCOTUS arguments), WH has Seth Waxman (80+ SCOTUS arguments), the list goes on.

You'll probably get screeners, callbacks, and maybe even offers from at least a handful of these firms with your GPA and middle-of-the-line interviewing skills. So the question for you down the line is probably going to be which group has a better fit.

[Anonymous User]

Not detracting from Kannon at all, but remember that a lot of firms in you T10 have prolific appellate litigators to rub elbows with. K&E has Paul Clement (100+ SCOTUS arguments), WH has Seth Waxman (80+ SCOTUS arguments), the list goes on.

You'll probably get screeners, callbacks, and maybe even offers from at least a handful of these firms with your GPA and middle-of-the-line interviewing skills. So the question for you down the line is probably going to be which group has a better fit.

LOL unless you're a SCOTUS clerk or a big-time feeder clerk on 2/9/DC you will not be working with Paul Clement if you join K&E. Just a reality check for ya.

[Anonymous User]

LOL unless you're a SCOTUS clerk or a big-time feeder clerk on 2/9/DC you will not be working with Paul Clement if you join K&E. Just a reality check for ya.

That's a big difference frankly, since I know Kannon makes himself very available to the summers at PW.

[Anonymous User]

LOL unless you're a SCOTUS clerk or a big-time feeder clerk on 2/9/DC you will not be working with Paul Clement if you join K&E. Just a reality check for ya.

That's a big difference frankly, since I know Kannon makes himself very available to the summers at PW.

What? For him to "make himself available to summers" has little to no relation to the reality of working on the top-end appellate cases in a meaningful way when you're full-time. PW is probably a little more broadly distributed than K&E's top-end appellate group, but it's the same basic idea.

[Anonymous User]

LOL unless you're a SCOTUS clerk or a big-time feeder clerk on 2/9/DC you will not be working with Paul Clement if you join K&E. Just a reality check for ya.

That's a big difference frankly, since I know Kannon makes himself very available to the summers at PW.

What? For him to "make himself available to summers" has little to no relation to the reality of working on the top-end appellate cases in a meaningful way when you're full-time. PW is probably a little more broadly distributed than K&E's top-end appellate group, but it's the same basic idea.

Because unlike Paul Clement, you actually do have a chance of working with Kannon's team on a case in the summer, and he has made calls for PW summers to judges. For a summer job, that's pretty good.