Partner commenting on weight? Forum

[Anonymous User]

I was told pretty bluntly by one of my bosses at a prior firm that clients, judges, and juries would have a negative impression of me as a "big sloppy fat guy" even though I was a very good lawyer. Great conversation, really awesome.

Rude of him to say, but also true and the stats bear this out. People have a poor view of fat people. Maybe that will change now that so many people are fat and it’s not just the outliers.

This. Partner is probably trying to help you rather than just taking a cheap shot for giggles. Take the advice to heart or ignore it, your choice, but getting upset isn't going to get you anywhere.

[ninthcircuitattorney]

Reading all these posts makes me wonder how many people on this blog are really lawyers. Commenting on weight is nowhere near creating a "hostile work environment," and a complaint wouldn't even make it past a motion to dismiss. Complaining to HR wouldn't protect you from retaliation. Only complaining to the EEOC or the state equivalent would protect you. Nevertheless, I agree that commenting on weight is wrong, rude, and inappropriate (but not illegal).

[Prudent_Jurist]

I was told pretty bluntly by one of my bosses at a prior firm that clients, judges, and juries would have a negative impression of me as a "big sloppy fat guy" even though I was a very good lawyer. Great conversation, really awesome.

Rude of him to say, but also true and the stats bear this out. People have a poor view of fat people. Maybe that will change now that so many people are fat and it’s not just the outliers.

Honestly very curious where you found the stats for this one. Would appreciate some cites for reading. Thx.

[Anonymous User]

Reading all these posts makes me wonder how many people on this blog are really lawyers. Commenting on weight is nowhere near creating a "hostile work environment," and a complaint wouldn't even make it past a motion to dismiss. Complaining to HR wouldn't protect you from retaliation. Only complaining to the EEOC or the state equivalent would protect you. Nevertheless, I agree that commenting on weight is wrong, rude, and inappropriate (but not illegal).

Conveying a reasonable but ultimately mistaken belief that certain conduct is discriminatory could constitute protected activity that furnishes a basis for a retaliation claim. If OP went to HR and said that they believe the conduct was discrimination and if OP subsequently faced an adverse action as a result, that could be retaliation under Title VII and (likely) state-law equivalents.

For example, the following complaint by an employee to HR would be protected activity: "This partner I work for says that I'm too skinny and I believe it's because my body type does not conform to his preconceived notions of what a man should stereotypically look like."

[nixy]

I was told pretty bluntly by one of my bosses at a prior firm that clients, judges, and juries would have a negative impression of me as a "big sloppy fat guy" even though I was a very good lawyer. Great conversation, really awesome.

Rude of him to say, but also true and the stats bear this out. People have a poor view of fat people. Maybe that will change now that so many people are fat and it’s not just the outliers.

This. Partner is probably trying to help you rather than just taking a cheap shot for giggles. Take the advice to heart or ignore it, your choice, but getting upset isn't going to get you anywhere.

It’s still shitty.

[Anonymous User]

I was told pretty bluntly by one of my bosses at a prior firm that clients, judges, and juries would have a negative impression of me as a "big sloppy fat guy" even though I was a very good lawyer. Great conversation, really awesome.

Rude of him to say, but also true and the stats bear this out. People have a poor view of fat people. Maybe that will change now that so many people are fat and it’s not just the outliers.

This. Partner is probably trying to help you rather than just taking a cheap shot for giggles. Take the advice to heart or ignore it, your choice, but getting upset isn't going to get you anywhere.

It’s still shitty.

I mean, its true though. For people who are going to court physical appearance and presentation is going to matter. You can either play the game or you can elect to pick a practice where that isn't relevant, like corporate. But to pretend like you can just wear whatever you want and not care how you look and still expect to just be fine isn't reality, and a partner pointing that out you isn't some horrible person jamming a knife into your back.

[nixy]

I mean, its true though. For people who are going to court physical appearance and presentation is going to matter. You can either play the game or you can elect to pick a practice where that isn't relevant, like corporate. But to pretend like you can just wear whatever you want and not care how you look and still expect to just be fine isn't reality, and a partner pointing that out you isn't some horrible person jamming a knife into your back.

Yeah, that’s fair enough. I think it depends in part how the partner delivered that message, but TBF, we don’t know that here. It’s interesting though that you’ve already shifted to “wear whatever you want,” which is different from physical size (which I think gets to the idea that fat people are perceived as sloppy even when they’re not). It’s not like skinny lawyers can wear whatever they want to court, either.

[Anonymous User]

I was told pretty bluntly by one of my bosses at a prior firm that clients, judges, and juries would have a negative impression of me as a "big sloppy fat guy" even though I was a very good lawyer. Great conversation, really awesome.

Rude of him to say, but also true and the stats bear this out. People have a poor view of fat people. Maybe that will change now that so many people are fat and it’s not just the outliers.

Honestly very curious where you found the stats for this one. Would appreciate some cites for reading. Thx.

Literally just google perceptions of fat people. This is incredibly well documented. There are some cited in the below, but there is a TON of documentation on this. Some of it is fair (they are less productive due to lower energy, poorer functioning bodies/brains and being sick more) and some of it is VERY unfair.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2866597/

[Anonymous User]

Literally just google perceptions of fat people. This is incredibly well documented. There are some cited in the below, but there is a TON of documentation on this. Some of it is fair (they are less productive due to lower energy, poorer functioning bodies/brains and being sick more) and some of it is VERY unfair.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2866597/

Stats/support for the bolded (especially that being fat makes your brain function worse???)? Because the perception that that's true is itself a form of weight stigma. It ignores the fact that that there are illnesses/medications that cause weight gain and lower energy. And there are lots of other factors that play into poor health that we don't therefore generalize to every person who has that factor (for instance, statistically, married people tend to live longer, healthier lives than single people, but we don't therefore treat single people like they're a drain on the health system or less good at their jobs).

[Anonymous User]

The anon posting that fat people have dumb brains is probably going to share a skull-size study next with results categorized by gender and ethnicity.

It's a good example of people with less than zero social awareness; really fits in with the vibe of this thread as a whole talking about work colleagues discussing weight.

[Res Ipsa Loquitter]

The anon posting that fat people have dumb brains is probably going to share a skull-size study next with results categorized by gender and ethnicity.

It's a good example of people with less than zero social awareness; really fits in with the vibe of this thread as a whole talking about work colleagues discussing weight.

Social and romantic rejection also reduces brain function and can even cause permanent damage. Based on that, most TLS posters are far more brain damaged than the typical obese person.

[jsnow212]

Have you ever considered, you know, telling them politely but assertively to stop. Like a functioning adult? What's with all these crappy suggestions? Passive-aggressive stuff or scortched-earth "Go to HR to lay the foundation for an outcome with 0% chance of success and 100% chance of upending my life."

How about, next time, just pulling them aside genuinely: "Hey, I assume you mean well, but I'm uncomfortable with comments regarding my weight, and I'd appreciate if they are not made anymore." If you fear retaliation for something like this (I'm assuming this isn't a pattern of active meanness and dislike toward you, but rather just inappropriateness in this one arena), then do just it in the moment if others are around.

[Anonymous User]

Have you ever considered, you know, telling them politely but assertively to stop. Like a functioning adult? What's with all these crappy suggestions? Passive-aggressive stuff or scortched-earth "Go to HR to lay the foundation for an outcome with 0% chance of success and 100% chance of upending my life."

How about, next time, just pulling them aside genuinely: "Hey, I assume you mean well, but I'm uncomfortable with comments regarding my weight, and I'd appreciate if they are not made anymore." If you fear retaliation for something like this (I'm assuming this isn't a pattern of active meanness and dislike toward you, but rather just inappropriateness in this one arena), then do just it in the moment if others are around.

Of course this is the right approach, but we can acknowledge that having to do this is uncomfortable, particularly if the poster is already sensitive about their weight and that it's shitty for the partner to put them in this position at all, so it's not like it's an easy thing for any "functioning adult" to do.

[Anonymous User]

I'm the "big sloppy fat" anon from earlier. I of course agree that perceptions of fat people are generally negative--I can't count the number of instances in which people have told me that they had an initial impression that I was stupid or incompetent because of my weight. I think, unfortunately, that even well-intended comments--and I don't doubt it was well-intended, although it was very blunt--can hurt a lot. They certainly did in this case, though I guess they helpfully spurred more vigorous lifestyle changes on my part.

[legalpotato]

Raise a complaint to create a record, and if partner does it again, burn the place to the fucking ground. Anti-harassments laws exist for a reason, OP, and you have to get yours ($$$) if they don't comply.

On a couple occasions I’ve had a partner in my group at a v100 comment on how I’m too skinny or need to be fattened up. I’ve kind of tried to shrug it off as being not wildly inappropriate as we are both the same gender, and I think it’s supposed to be funny, but it seems kinda sketchy. Is this worth flagging somehow, either with HR or just through a conversation? Anyone with similar experience?

The next time he says this, don't play along at all. Don't laugh along with it. Literally don't say saying. Let the moment be weird and awkward. After a few seconds pass, change the subject and don't sound jovial or amused in your tone of voice. If the partner has any social awareness or emotional intelligence, he will pick up that such comments are not welcome and he'll hopefully stop.

Way to assume the partner's gender. Partner could just as easily have been a female (sis or t). Your assumption seems harmless on its face, but these assumptions add up and compound to give us the problems we have today.

You're right. I apologize and have have revised the comment. Also, I think you meant "cis" instead of "sis".

lol woke fail

[Anonymous User]

Reading all these posts makes me wonder how many people on this blog are really lawyers. Commenting on weight is nowhere near creating a "hostile work environment," and a complaint wouldn't even make it past a motion to dismiss. Complaining to HR wouldn't protect you from retaliation. Only complaining to the EEOC or the state equivalent would protect you. Nevertheless, I agree that commenting on weight is wrong, rude, and inappropriate (but not illegal).

Conveying a reasonable but ultimately mistaken belief that certain conduct is discriminatory could constitute protected activity that furnishes a basis for a retaliation claim. If OP went to HR and said that they believe the conduct was discrimination and if OP subsequently faced an adverse action as a result, that could be retaliation under Title VII and (likely) state-law equivalents.

For example, the following complaint by an employee to HR would be protected activity: "This partner I work for says that I'm too skinny and I believe it's because my body type does not conform to his preconceived notions of what a man should stereotypically look like."

This is correct; Title VII (and the NYSHRL, FEHA, etc.) protect employees against adverse employment action taken in response to a complaint to HR, not just a complaint to the EEOC or another government agency. Comments about weight also potentially implicate the ADA, since excess weight is often caused by a medical condition (like diabetes, PCOS, etc.) or a drug used to treat a medical condition (insulin, certain antidepressants, etc.).

(Anonymous because I have such a medical condition. I have never gone to HR, but I also have never had anyone say anything about my weight that made me sincerely uncomfortable.)

[Anonymous User]

Literally just google perceptions of fat people. This is incredibly well documented. There are some cited in the below, but there is a TON of documentation on this. Some of it is fair (they are less productive due to lower energy, poorer functioning bodies/brains and being sick more) and some of it is VERY unfair.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2866597/

Stats/support for the bolded (especially that being fat makes your brain function worse???)? Because the perception that that's true is itself a form of weight stigma. It ignores the fact that that there are illnesses/medications that cause weight gain and lower energy. And there are lots of other factors that play into poor health that we don't therefore generalize to every person who has that factor (for instance, statistically, married people tend to live longer, healthier lives than single people, but we don't therefore treat single people like they're a drain on the health system or less good at their jobs).

People are sooo lazy. Just google it. Being fat is terrible for you in pretty much every conceivable way. Of course everything functions worse when you are fat. People get fat by eating crappy food and not exercising. exercise and good diet = better functioning. Your body (including your brain) is made up of the food you eat. Eat crappy food, get a crappier brain. Virtually no one gets fat by eating whole grains, fruits, vegetables, nuts, lean proteins and working out the reccomended 150 minutes per week.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4237034/
" Numerous studies have demonstrated that both obesity and metabolic disorders are associated with poorer cognitive performance, cognitive decline, and dementia. "

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl ... unterparts.

"The association between obesity and sickness absence has been well documented cross-sectionally. Studies found a tendency for obese individuals to have a higher number of sick leave events and also have longer spells of individual sick leave compared with their normal-weight counterparts."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5640019/

"The increasingly high levels of overweight and obesity among the workforce are accompanied by a hidden cost burden due to losses in productivity."

[Anonymous User]

Literally just google perceptions of fat people. This is incredibly well documented. There are some cited in the below, but there is a TON of documentation on this. Some of it is fair (they are less productive due to lower energy, poorer functioning bodies/brains and being sick more) and some of it is VERY unfair.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2866597/

Stats/support for the bolded (especially that being fat makes your brain function worse???)? Because the perception that that's true is itself a form of weight stigma. It ignores the fact that that there are illnesses/medications that cause weight gain and lower energy. And there are lots of other factors that play into poor health that we don't therefore generalize to every person who has that factor (for instance, statistically, married people tend to live longer, healthier lives than single people, but we don't therefore treat single people like they're a drain on the health system or less good at their jobs).

People are sooo lazy. Just google it. Being fat is terrible for you in pretty much every conceivable way. Of course everything functions worse when you are fat. People get fat by eating crappy food and not exercising. exercise and good diet = better functioning. Your body (including your brain) is made up of the food you eat. Eat crappy food, get a crappier brain. Virtually no one gets fat by eating whole grains, fruits, vegetables, nuts, lean proteins and working out the reccomended 150 minutes per week.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4237034/
" Numerous studies have demonstrated that both obesity and metabolic disorders are associated with poorer cognitive performance, cognitive decline, and dementia. "

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl ... unterparts.

"The association between obesity and sickness absence has been well documented cross-sectionally. Studies found a tendency for obese individuals to have a higher number of sick leave events and also have longer spells of individual sick leave compared with their normal-weight counterparts."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5640019/

"The increasingly high levels of overweight and obesity among the workforce are accompanied by a hidden cost burden due to losses in productivity."

This is all WAY more complicated than being fat makes you stupid.

[Anonymous User]

Literally just google perceptions of fat people. This is incredibly well documented. There are some cited in the below, but there is a TON of documentation on this. Some of it is fair (they are less productive due to lower energy, poorer functioning bodies/brains and being sick more) and some of it is VERY unfair.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2866597/

Stats/support for the bolded (especially that being fat makes your brain function worse???)? Because the perception that that's true is itself a form of weight stigma. It ignores the fact that that there are illnesses/medications that cause weight gain and lower energy. And there are lots of other factors that play into poor health that we don't therefore generalize to every person who has that factor (for instance, statistically, married people tend to live longer, healthier lives than single people, but we don't therefore treat single people like they're a drain on the health system or less good at their jobs).

People are sooo lazy. Just google it. Being fat is terrible for you in pretty much every conceivable way. Of course everything functions worse when you are fat. People get fat by eating crappy food and not exercising. exercise and good diet = better functioning. Your body (including your brain) is made up of the food you eat. Eat crappy food, get a crappier brain. Virtually no one gets fat by eating whole grains, fruits, vegetables, nuts, lean proteins and working out the reccomended 150 minutes per week.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4237034/
" Numerous studies have demonstrated that both obesity and metabolic disorders are associated with poorer cognitive performance, cognitive decline, and dementia. "

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl ... unterparts.

"The association between obesity and sickness absence has been well documented cross-sectionally. Studies found a tendency for obese individuals to have a higher number of sick leave events and also have longer spells of individual sick leave compared with their normal-weight counterparts."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5640019/

"The increasingly high levels of overweight and obesity among the workforce are accompanied by a hidden cost burden due to losses in productivity."

This is all WAY more complicated than being fat makes you stupid.

Exactly. Many studies purporting to show that fat people have worse health outcomes are methodologically flawed. There are tons of issues with correlation/causation. This podcast provides a very good overview of the fraught state of the data in this field: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/i ... 0542081632.

Also, a lot of people commenting on this thread have serious anti-fat biases they should interrogate. Regardless of whether being fat is a choice (it usually isn't), is bad for you (often it is not), or will lead juries or clients to think less of you, it is not okay for anyone at work to criticize your weight. We should view this type of behavior along the same lines as a partner telling a Muslim woman associate to take off her headscarf so that clients and juries will be able to relate to her better. It might be true but it's still really messed up to say that to someone.

[Buglaw]

People arguing being fat is just correlated with bad outcomes are like the folks in the 80s arguing smoking is just correlated with bad outcomes. Get a grip.

Does anyone really believe that eating poorly has no effect on your mental processes. Like everyone acknowledges that poor eating habits are bad for your heart, liver, every other organ, but randomly draw the line at the brain.

Obviously obesity isn’t a choice, it’s a disease. No one willingly chooses to be obese. But, you catch the disease from poor food and exercise habits and it’s really bad for you. Commenting on the persons weight is not OK. But…. It’s not the same as religion. Being a Muslim isn’t hurting anyone or bad for anyone. Nor is wearing a hijab. Being fat hurts lots of people.