EOY Bonuses? Forum

[Anonymous User]

I feel like they'll give an EOY bonus that is in between the "base" amount and the "special" amount and just dub it as a base. This way they can sell it as an increase in bonus comp even though it isn't. No one will actually believe it, but whatever.

[Anonymous User]

I feel like they'll give an EOY bonus that is in between the "base" amount and the "special" amount and just dub it as a base. This way they can sell it as an increase in bonus comp even though it isn't. No one will actually believe it, but whatever.

This would be a classic passive aggressive double bind biglaw move that leaves you feeling sort of satisfied and sort of terrible and so your post feels ... 100% accurate. Bookmarking it now.

[Anonymous User]

I'm expecting same base with a stern lecture that we're lucky to have jobs

[Anonymous User]

I'm expecting same base with a stern lecture that we're lucky to have jobs

Don't forget to add: While the partnership quietly reports that profits per partner are up another 10% YoY

[Anonymous User]

I'm expecting same base with a stern lecture that we're lucky to have jobs

Don't forget to add: While the partnership quietly reports that profits per partner are up another 10% YoY

How many times do we have to rehash this argument? PPP going up while associate comp stagnates is annoying AF for we associates, but is not sufficient for partners to decide to raise comp. If you think partners want to spread the love when they have a good year you don't understand how this bargain works. Now, if increased PPP causes associate retention issues (as was the case throughout most of the pandemic, where people were dropping like flies and workloads were insane) then they absolutely will divert some of their profits back to the associates, but only insomuch as that helps maintain their excess profits by maintaining associate ranks. There's also an argument that some partners consider inflation, but that has historically only come into play on much longer timescales (i.e., not within a year of a comp and bonus bump). I would love to be proven wrong here, but I'm not going to get my hopes up.

I also disagree with the premise that associates pay attention to PPP. If I ask any random colleague at my V20 nobody knows what the partners make, much less if they are making more (other than assuming that profits go up each year). TLS is a weird microcosm that cares a lot about these things (and I do too, hence why I'm following this thread), but I don't think that's typical. That said, my firm's PPP is definitely lower than at DPW/CSM/Millbank, so maybe things are different there in a way that makes a difference.

I see the argument that associates will be disappointed if EOY bonuses don't include the special bonus kickers we got last year. We'll have to see if partners are worried that it will cause defections. But remember, the whole reason firms called these "special bonuses" so that they could drop them the following year. That's literally why they called them "special."

If just a base EOY bonus is such a slap in the face that you would leave AND you're at DPW/CSM/Milly B, then speak up now please. That's the only way partners will respond.

[glitched]

I feel like they'll give an EOY bonus that is in between the "base" amount and the "special" amount and just dub it as a base. This way they can sell it as an increase in bonus comp even though it isn't. No one will actually believe it, but whatever.

This seems the most likely. So prob $145k at the top, which would put total comp at $560k for 8th year, compared to $554.5k last year. That would be nice.

[Anonymous User]

I'm expecting same base with a stern lecture that we're lucky to have jobs

Don't forget to add: While the partnership quietly reports that profits per partner are up another 10% YoY

How many times do we have to rehash this argument? PPP going up while associate comp stagnates is annoying AF for we associates, but is not sufficient for partners to decide to raise comp. If you think partners want to spread the love when they have a good year you don't understand how this bargain works. Now, if increased PPP causes associate retention issues (as was the case throughout most of the pandemic, where people were dropping like flies and workloads were insane) then they absolutely will divert some of their profits back to the associates, but only insomuch as that helps maintain their excess profits by maintaining associate ranks. There's also an argument that some partners consider inflation, but that has historically only come into play on much longer timescales (i.e., not within a year of a comp and bonus bump). I would love to be proven wrong here, but I'm not going to get my hopes up.

I also disagree with the premise that associates pay attention to PPP. If I ask any random colleague at my V20 nobody knows what the partners make, much less if they are making more (other than assuming that profits go up each year). TLS is a weird microcosm that cares a lot about these things (and I do too, hence why I'm following this thread), but I don't think that's typical. That said, my firm's PPP is definitely lower than at DPW/CSM/Millbank, so maybe things are different there in a way that makes a difference.

I see the argument that associates will be disappointed if EOY bonuses don't include the special bonus kickers we got last year. We'll have to see if partners are worried that it will cause defections. But remember, the whole reason firms called these "special bonuses" so that they could drop them the following year. That's literally why they called them "special."

If just a base EOY bonus is such a slap in the face that you would leave AND you're at DPW/CSM/Milly B, then speak up now please. That's the only way partners will respond.

Eh this doesn’t jive with my experience. Good years bring more generous bonuses and bad years bring tighter or stable ones. Speaking of TLS as a microcosm, people here treat comp committees much more like calculating robots than they actually are and create these Machiavellian fantasies (like in your post) that some super partners are sitting at DPW running complex calculuses about associates’ utility curves. It isn’t happening how you think it’s happening.

[Anonymous User]

I'm expecting same base with a stern lecture that we're lucky to have jobs

Don't forget to add: While the partnership quietly reports that profits per partner are up another 10% YoY

How many times do we have to rehash this argument? PPP going up while associate comp stagnates is annoying AF for we associates, but is not sufficient for partners to decide to raise comp. If you think partners want to spread the love when they have a good year you don't understand how this bargain works. Now, if increased PPP causes associate retention issues (as was the case throughout most of the pandemic, where people were dropping like flies and workloads were insane) then they absolutely will divert some of their profits back to the associates, but only insomuch as that helps maintain their excess profits by maintaining associate ranks. There's also an argument that some partners consider inflation, but that has historically only come into play on much longer timescales (i.e., not within a year of a comp and bonus bump). I would love to be proven wrong here, but I'm not going to get my hopes up.

I also disagree with the premise that associates pay attention to PPP. If I ask any random colleague at my V20 nobody knows what the partners make, much less if they are making more (other than assuming that profits go up each year). TLS is a weird microcosm that cares a lot about these things (and I do too, hence why I'm following this thread), but I don't think that's typical. That said, my firm's PPP is definitely lower than at DPW/CSM/Millbank, so maybe things are different there in a way that makes a difference.

I see the argument that associates will be disappointed if EOY bonuses don't include the special bonus kickers we got last year. We'll have to see if partners are worried that it will cause defections. But remember, the whole reason firms called these "special bonuses" so that they could drop them the following year. That's literally why they called them "special."

If just a base EOY bonus is such a slap in the face that you would leave AND you're at DPW/CSM/Milly B, then speak up now please. That's the only way partners will respond.

Eh this doesn’t jive with my experience. Good years bring more generous bonuses and bad years bring tighter or stable ones. Speaking of TLS as a microcosm, people here treat comp committees much more like calculating robots than they actually are and create these Machiavellian fantasies (like in your post) that some super partners are sitting at DPW running complex calculuses about associates’ utility curves. It isn’t happening how you think it’s happening.

So how do you explain stable bonuses from 2015-2019 despite significant PPP growth? What "generous bonuses" and "tighter bonuses" did you experience during that time?

[Anonymous User]

I'm expecting same base with a stern lecture that we're lucky to have jobs

Don't forget to add: While the partnership quietly reports that profits per partner are up another 10% YoY

How many times do we have to rehash this argument? PPP going up while associate comp stagnates is annoying AF for we associates, but is not sufficient for partners to decide to raise comp. If you think partners want to spread the love when they have a good year you don't understand how this bargain works. Now, if increased PPP causes associate retention issues (as was the case throughout most of the pandemic, where people were dropping like flies and workloads were insane) then they absolutely will divert some of their profits back to the associates, but only insomuch as that helps maintain their excess profits by maintaining associate ranks. There's also an argument that some partners consider inflation, but that has historically only come into play on much longer timescales (i.e., not within a year of a comp and bonus bump). I would love to be proven wrong here, but I'm not going to get my hopes up.

I also disagree with the premise that associates pay attention to PPP. If I ask any random colleague at my V20 nobody knows what the partners make, much less if they are making more (other than assuming that profits go up each year). TLS is a weird microcosm that cares a lot about these things (and I do too, hence why I'm following this thread), but I don't think that's typical. That said, my firm's PPP is definitely lower than at DPW/CSM/Millbank, so maybe things are different there in a way that makes a difference.

I see the argument that associates will be disappointed if EOY bonuses don't include the special bonus kickers we got last year. We'll have to see if partners are worried that it will cause defections. But remember, the whole reason firms called these "special bonuses" so that they could drop them the following year. That's literally why they called them "special."

If just a base EOY bonus is such a slap in the face that you would leave AND you're at DPW/CSM/Milly B, then speak up now please. That's the only way partners will respond.

Eh this doesn’t jive with my experience. Good years bring more generous bonuses and bad years bring tighter or stable ones. Speaking of TLS as a microcosm, people here treat comp committees much more like calculating robots than they actually are and create these Machiavellian fantasies (like in your post) that some super partners are sitting at DPW running complex calculuses about associates’ utility curves. It isn’t happening how you think it’s happening.

So how do you explain stable bonuses from 2015-2019 despite significant PPP growth? What "generous bonuses" and "tighter bonuses" did you experience during that time?

There’s some inelasticity to it; it doesn’t turn on a dime. Firms aren’t instantaneous movers. But when they do move I think it’s based much more on gut and a general sense of a rising tide than you’re allowing.

[Anonymous User]

15 to 19 saw salaries rise from 160 to 190, and throughout the lockstep. I'm not saying partners have the mindset of associates, but it does trickle down eventually.

[Anonymous User]

Can anyone remind me what the bonus scale split was last year between the base and special columns?

[Anonymous User]

Can anyone remind me what the bonus scale split was last year between the base and special columns?

Google exists, but why not: https://www.biglawinvestor.com/biglaw-salary-scale/.

[OPM]

I feel like they'll give an EOY bonus that is in between the "base" amount and the "special" amount and just dub it as a base. This way they can sell it as an increase in bonus comp even though it isn't. No one will actually believe it, but whatever.

This seems the most likely. So prob $145k at the top, which would put total comp at $560k for 8th year, compared to $554.5k last year. That would be nice.

Agreed, although I'm more optimistic that they'll bake in more of the specials. Even though the economy is turning, firms turned in a good year and are still struggling to retain associates as they remain busy across most practice groups. If they offer significantly less than all in comp including specials last year, that seems to put retention at some unnecessary risk--especially for valuable mid-levels who might be fairly pissed about seeing their base "raise" eliminated by a smaller total bonus. At least at my firm, I know that many partners are actively going to management to ask about retention/staffing because they can't find enough associates to staff their matters. So I'm optimistic it'll have more sway in committees this year. Maybe we could hope for something like 165k at the top for 7/8, and pushing closer to 95k for fourth-years (so that their total comp wouldn't shrink from '21).

[Anonymous User]

I would be happy for a boost in the past bonus level. Permanent increases are best. Also, I think that Milbank changed the salary game a bit. It seems possible that they (or another firm that wants to use their playbook) will make another raise once the economy calms down.

[glitched]

I feel like they'll give an EOY bonus that is in between the "base" amount and the "special" amount and just dub it as a base. This way they can sell it as an increase in bonus comp even though it isn't. No one will actually believe it, but whatever.

This seems the most likely. So prob $145k at the top, which would put total comp at $560k for 8th year, compared to $554.5k last year. That would be nice.

Agreed, although I'm more optimistic that they'll bake in more of the specials. Even though the economy is turning, firms turned in a good year and are still struggling to retain associates as they remain busy across most practice groups. If they offer significantly less than all in comp including specials last year, that seems to put retention at some unnecessary risk--especially for valuable mid-levels who might be fairly pissed about seeing their base "raise" eliminated by a smaller total bonus. At least at my firm, I know that many partners are actively going to management to ask about retention/staffing because they can't find enough associates to staff their matters. So I'm optimistic it'll have more sway in committees this year. Maybe we could hope for something like 165k at the top for 7/8, and pushing closer to 95k for fourth-years (so that their total comp wouldn't shrink from '21).

Certainly very possible. If the raises the last couple years weren't so sharp, I definitely would have quit. I had a couple of really good leads on in-house roles, but decided not to go for it. If they don't at least match last year, then I'll probably leave.