Biglaw "Culture" Firm-to-Firm Forum

[Anonymous User]

I've had pretty consistently negative experiences working across from K&E and Paul, Weiss. Uncommercial, belligerent, quick to raise their voices or drop f-bombs on calls, play games with timing, wait all week to dump agreements on every Friday night, etc. Now that I think about it, that may be more of a result of their working with PE clients, and that shit rolling downhill and setting precedent for other deals.

K&E lawyer from the other side. I think your suspicion is correct lol.

[Anonymous User]

As a senior M&A associate on the corporate side, I always hear great things from Debevoise, and they have been consistently one of the most commercial and pleasant firms to work across from on deals. I've had similarly pleasant experiences with S&C, Cleary, Willkie, Fried Frank, Davis Polk, probably a few others I'm forgetting.

I've had pretty consistently negative experiences working across from K&E and Paul, Weiss. Uncommercial, belligerent, quick to raise their voices or drop f-bombs on calls, play games with timing, wait all week to dump agreements on every Friday night, etc. Now that I think about it, that may be more of a result of their working with PE clients, and that shit rolling downhill and setting precedent for other deals.

Out of curiosity, how has your experience been working across from STB and LW?

[Anonymous User]

Piggybacking off this from the salary thread

I think there's a real chance CSM bumps juniors a little and cleans up the other figures. There's 0 chance Kirkland does anything. People need to get this through their heads re what's happened to the culture there. The wealthier the partners get there the cheaper they get. They're like the opposite of Milbank / DPW. If they're going to spend money they do it through targeted lateral hires, practice group buy outs, insane equity partner deals. They do not give a fuck about general associate comp.

Clerk sitting on Kirkland lit offer. Not exactly surprised by this, but, are there really any nurturing gardens to which I should abscond? For those working, what is different about your firm's culture? I always assumed Biglaw firms were gray shades of flavorlessness.

For me personally Quinn’s culture is an excellent fit. What I like about it is the lack of formality, casual atmosphere, no dress code, extreme free market system, permanent work-from-home…it’s lot less authoritarian and stuffy than the typical firm. It has actually retained a bit of a startup culture. I have fun on the job, believe it or not. In fact I'm pretty sure it's the only big law firm I could endure. In my experience virtually all other firms are more or less culturally identical (varying shades of authoritarian…all clones of CSM).

[Anonymous User]

Piggybacking off this from the salary thread

I think there's a real chance CSM bumps juniors a little and cleans up the other figures. There's 0 chance Kirkland does anything. People need to get this through their heads re what's happened to the culture there. The wealthier the partners get there the cheaper they get. They're like the opposite of Milbank / DPW. If they're going to spend money they do it through targeted lateral hires, practice group buy outs, insane equity partner deals. They do not give a fuck about general associate comp.

Clerk sitting on Kirkland lit offer. Not exactly surprised by this, but, are there really any nurturing gardens to which I should abscond? For those working, what is different about your firm's culture? I always assumed Biglaw firms were gray shades of flavorlessness.

For me personally Quinn’s culture is an excellent fit. What I like about it is the lack of formality, casual atmosphere, no dress code, extreme free market system, permanent work-from-home…it’s lot less authoritarian and stuffy than the typical firm. It has actually retained a bit of a startup culture. I have fun on the job, believe it or not. In fact I'm pretty sure it's the only big law firm I could endure. In my experience virtually all other firms are more or less culturally identical (varying shades of authoritarian…all clones of CSM).

At the end of the day firms are just collections of individual partners. And the type of people who become partners at a v30, especially rainmakers at a v30, have generally toxic personalities and are going to be miserable to work with. Which means that unless you find some unicorn situation expect to be pretty miserable pretty much anywhere.

[Anonymous User]

Piggybacking off this from the salary thread

I think there's a real chance CSM bumps juniors a little and cleans up the other figures. There's 0 chance Kirkland does anything. People need to get this through their heads re what's happened to the culture there. The wealthier the partners get there the cheaper they get. They're like the opposite of Milbank / DPW. If they're going to spend money they do it through targeted lateral hires, practice group buy outs, insane equity partner deals. They do not give a fuck about general associate comp.

Clerk sitting on Kirkland lit offer. Not exactly surprised by this, but, are there really any nurturing gardens to which I should abscond? For those working, what is different about your firm's culture? I always assumed Biglaw firms were gray shades of flavorlessness.

For me personally Quinn’s culture is an excellent fit. What I like about it is the lack of formality, casual atmosphere, no dress code, extreme free market system, permanent work-from-home…it’s lot less authoritarian and stuffy than the typical firm. It has actually retained a bit of a startup culture. I have fun on the job, believe it or not. In fact I'm pretty sure it's the only big law firm I could endure. In my experience virtually all other firms are more or less culturally identical (varying shades of authoritarian…all clones of CSM).

At the end of the day firms are just collections of individual partners. And the type of people who become partners at a v30, especially rainmakers at a v30, have generally toxic personalities and are going to be miserable to work with. Which means that unless you find some unicorn situation expect to be pretty miserable pretty much anywhere.

I'm the anonymous Quinn booster from above. Yeah I basically agree with this. Definitely a YMMV situation. To me though there is definitely a palpable cultural difference b/t Quinn and other firms I've been at. If you get stuck with a screamer or something like that I'm sure it can suck like any other place. But that hasn't happened to me and I've dealt with a lot of the partners. They've generally been pretty great people actually. I'd describe the culture as fast-paced and a bit ego-driven but otherwise pretty jovial and laidback. Plus at least it's a free market so you can get away from unpleasant partners if you're able to scare up other work. So there's a bit more autonomy than I've found elsewhere. But yes, 100% agree that the partners you work for largely dictate your experience.

[Anonymous User]

Piggybacking off this from the salary thread

I think there's a real chance CSM bumps juniors a little and cleans up the other figures. There's 0 chance Kirkland does anything. People need to get this through their heads re what's happened to the culture there. The wealthier the partners get there the cheaper they get. They're like the opposite of Milbank / DPW. If they're going to spend money they do it through targeted lateral hires, practice group buy outs, insane equity partner deals. They do not give a fuck about general associate comp.

Clerk sitting on Kirkland lit offer. Not exactly surprised by this, but, are there really any nurturing gardens to which I should abscond? For those working, what is different about your firm's culture? I always assumed Biglaw firms were gray shades of flavorlessness.

For me personally Quinn’s culture is an excellent fit. What I like about it is the lack of formality, casual atmosphere, no dress code, extreme free market system, permanent work-from-home…it’s lot less authoritarian and stuffy than the typical firm. It has actually retained a bit of a startup culture. I have fun on the job, believe it or not. In fact I'm pretty sure it's the only big law firm I could endure. In my experience virtually all other firms are more or less culturally identical (varying shades of authoritarian…all clones of CSM).

At the end of the day firms are just collections of individual partners. And the type of people who become partners at a v30, especially rainmakers at a v30, have generally toxic personalities and are going to be miserable to work with. Which means that unless you find some unicorn situation expect to be pretty miserable pretty much anywhere.

This has not been my experience at all at L&W NY.

The partners I work for demand high quality work, but they are generally nice people. Sometimes the nature of the work is that you will need to work late/long hours, but the partners have all been pretty reasonable in their expectations and I've never felt that they were purposely trying to ruin my life. I've also never experienced a "screamer", and I'm pretty sure the firm would not stand for it. Overall, I had a good experience.

[Anonymous User]

Piggybacking off this from the salary thread

I think there's a real chance CSM bumps juniors a little and cleans up the other figures. There's 0 chance Kirkland does anything. People need to get this through their heads re what's happened to the culture there. The wealthier the partners get there the cheaper they get. They're like the opposite of Milbank / DPW. If they're going to spend money they do it through targeted lateral hires, practice group buy outs, insane equity partner deals. They do not give a fuck about general associate comp.

Clerk sitting on Kirkland lit offer. Not exactly surprised by this, but, are there really any nurturing gardens to which I should abscond? For those working, what is different about your firm's culture? I always assumed Biglaw firms were gray shades of flavorlessness.

For me personally Quinn’s culture is an excellent fit. What I like about it is the lack of formality, casual atmosphere, no dress code, extreme free market system, permanent work-from-home…it’s lot less authoritarian and stuffy than the typical firm. It has actually retained a bit of a startup culture. I have fun on the job, believe it or not. In fact I'm pretty sure it's the only big law firm I could endure. In my experience virtually all other firms are more or less culturally identical (varying shades of authoritarian…all clones of CSM).

At the end of the day firms are just collections of individual partners. And the type of people who become partners at a v30, especially rainmakers at a v30, have generally toxic personalities and are going to be miserable to work with. Which means that unless you find some unicorn situation expect to be pretty miserable pretty much anywhere.

This has not been my experience at all at L&W NY.

The partners I work for demand high quality work, but they are generally nice people. Sometimes the nature of the work is that you will need to work late/long hours, but the partners have all been pretty reasonable in their expectations and I've never felt that they were purposely trying to ruin my life. I've also never experienced a "screamer", and I'm pretty sure the firm would not stand for it. Overall, I had a good experience.

Uh-huh. I'm sure an industry with what, a 90% attrition rate within four years, and equity partners who are often addicted to drugs and alcohol, divorced, utterly miserable and often mentally ill is a wonderful place to be. If Latham NY is so great, why do so many people leave so quickly?

[Anonymous User]

Uh-huh. I'm sure an industry with what, a 90% attrition rate within four years, and equity partners who are often addicted to drugs and alcohol, divorced, utterly miserable and often mentally ill is a wonderful place to be. If Latham NY is so great, why do so many people leave so quickly?

I don't know anything about Latham NY specifically, but people can like the partners they work with and still want to get the fuck out from the hours and unpredictability of biglaw.

[Anonymous User]

Uh-huh. I'm sure an industry with what, a 90% attrition rate within four years, and equity partners who are often addicted to drugs and alcohol, divorced, utterly miserable and often mentally ill is a wonderful place to be. If Latham NY is so great, why do so many people leave so quickly?

I don't know anything about Latham NY specifically, but people can like the partners they work with and still want to get the fuck out from the hours and unpredictability of biglaw.

Yeah there are tons of negatives of this job, even if the personalities of your team are awesome. I honestly quite like all the people I’ve worked with at my firm, from juniors to partners. Many of them are good friends, and the worst ones are basically like “ehh this guy is kinda annoying.” Nothing even remotely like the horror stories I’ve heard in BigLaw lore. Genuinely enjoy the culture.

Yet I also have to work a bunch of fucking hours, with lots of deadlines, demanding clients, difficult work life balance, etc. Having coworkers that I enjoy definitely makes it more bearable, and if they were assholes it would be way worse... but there are plenty of reasons to get tired of this job and quit that have nothing to do with the culture or personalities.

[Anonymous User]

And the type of people who become partners at a v30, especially rainmakers at a v30, have generally toxic personalities...

Why is that the case? Does their toxicity contribute to their success as partners/rainmakers?

[Anonymous User]

If you have to do biglaw, IME Latham is generally a good place to do it, with a fairly sane/healthy culture, but it’s still biglaw. I worked in DC fwiw.

[Anonymous User]

funny how associates of the big, bad, and uniquely arrogant "sweatshop" have the time to be the most frequent posters on TLS!

[Anonymous User]

Piggybacking off this from the salary thread

I think there's a real chance CSM bumps juniors a little and cleans up the other figures. There's 0 chance Kirkland does anything. People need to get this through their heads re what's happened to the culture there. The wealthier the partners get there the cheaper they get. They're like the opposite of Milbank / DPW. If they're going to spend money they do it through targeted lateral hires, practice group buy outs, insane equity partner deals. They do not give a fuck about general associate comp.

Clerk sitting on Kirkland lit offer. Not exactly surprised by this, but, are there really any nurturing gardens to which I should abscond? For those working, what is different about your firm's culture? I always assumed Biglaw firms were gray shades of flavorlessness.

For me personally Quinn’s culture is an excellent fit. What I like about it is the lack of formality, casual atmosphere, no dress code, extreme free market system, permanent work-from-home…it’s lot less authoritarian and stuffy than the typical firm. It has actually retained a bit of a startup culture. I have fun on the job, believe it or not. In fact I'm pretty sure it's the only big law firm I could endure. In my experience virtually all other firms are more or less culturally identical (varying shades of authoritarian…all clones of CSM).

At the end of the day firms are just collections of individual partners. And the type of people who become partners at a v30, especially rainmakers at a v30, have generally toxic personalities and are going to be miserable to work with. Which means that unless you find some unicorn situation expect to be pretty miserable pretty much anywhere.

This has not been my experience at all at L&W NY.

The partners I work for demand high quality work, but they are generally nice people. Sometimes the nature of the work is that you will need to work late/long hours, but the partners have all been pretty reasonable in their expectations and I've never felt that they were purposely trying to ruin my life. I've also never experienced a "screamer", and I'm pretty sure the firm would not stand for it. Overall, I had a good experience.

Uh-huh. I'm sure an industry with what, a 90% attrition rate within four years, and equity partners who are often addicted to drugs and alcohol, divorced, utterly miserable and often mentally ill is a wonderful place to be. If Latham NY is so great, why do so many people leave so quickly?

Lots of reasons:

1. Want a job with less hours commitment.

2. Want a job that is more fulfilling.

3. They aren't getting the type of work/quality that they desire.

You can choose to believe it or not; not everyone leaves because they're absolutely miserable or because they hate their fellow co-workers.