Advice for class of ‘19, ‘20, ‘21 re lack of training Forum

[Anonymous User]

It’s not just the taking off tons of evenings and weekends, it’s the playing dumb like they had no idea we’d be working on the deals with 250 emails flying around at those times. It’s also the constant delayed responses saying I can jump on this in a few hours, when they know that means the midlevel/senior will have already done it. Being a junior can suck. I felt like I was standing on the sidelines in my pads with my helmet ready, just waiting to check in for a few plays at the least desirable times. That’s awful and not how it should work, but now days the juniors are often nowhere to be found and then are like oh let me tie my cleats, oh where’s my helmet every time you call their number (to take this analogy too too far).

These juniors came into big law in a world where weekdays and weekends completely blended together during the pandemic. There has been an excess of work going around and firms are bleeding talent.

These juniors should be commended for taking some small steps towards re-establishing boundaries. Because even with these small push backs, the juniors are still going to bill an obscene amount and help pad that partner’s paychecks. It’s not like they’re losing the firm money at 2000, 2100, or more hours.

Yeah, except them "establishing boundaries" means the burden falls on the mid and senior associates above them. You aren't "sticking it to the man", you are hurting your "fellow man".

I don't know who needs to hear this but senior associates are not workers to be in solidarity with, they are middle managers

[legalpotato]

It’s not just the taking off tons of evenings and weekends, it’s the playing dumb like they had no idea we’d be working on the deals with 250 emails flying around at those times. It’s also the constant delayed responses saying I can jump on this in a few hours, when they know that means the midlevel/senior will have already done it. Being a junior can suck. I felt like I was standing on the sidelines in my pads with my helmet ready, just waiting to check in for a few plays at the least desirable times. That’s awful and not how it should work, but now days the juniors are often nowhere to be found and then are like oh let me tie my cleats, oh where’s my helmet every time you call their number (to take this analogy too too far).

These juniors came into big law in a world where weekdays and weekends completely blended together during the pandemic. There has been an excess of work going around and firms are bleeding talent.

These juniors should be commended for taking some small steps towards re-establishing boundaries. Because even with these small push backs, the juniors are still going to bill an obscene amount and help pad that partner’s paychecks. It’s not like they’re losing the firm money at 2000, 2100, or more hours.

Yeah, except them "establishing boundaries" means the burden falls on the mid and senior associates above them. You aren't "sticking it to the man", you are hurting your "fellow man".

I don't know who needs to hear this but senior associates are not workers to be in solidarity with, they are middle managers

So the above I think is the general attitude of some juniors that have become much more ubiquitous post-covid and is enraging.

The current attitude ITT of juniors is "protecting muh boundaries" - that is fine, but timelines aren't changing. Workload is not changing because of your boundaries. Share partners are not working more because of your boundaries. Instead, Seniors/Mids are just working more.

[Poldy]

FWIW, these days the bad juniors don't really cause me to work more because I simply refuse to staff them on any deals and the partners I work with won't staff them either. People will continue to get away with it for so long as the firms just need bodies, but I personally look forward to the day some of them get sent packing.

If they are just here for a year or two and don't care if they get fired, I guess some of them may come out fine. One person I worked with was an early adopter of the "boundaries" lifestyle and was fired as a 2nd year just before the workload exploded.

[Anonymous User]

There are many fine juniors. It’s just that they’re quickly accounted for, and as a lateral I’m dealt the undesirable juniors who disappear unannounced all the time and produce sloppy drafts of the most basic assignments.

My advice would be to get under the wing of someone very knowledgable and reasonable. They’ll look out for you, won’t flood you with work, will cover for you, and will teach you all their best tips. In exchange, you have to find a way to make their life easier. As a senior, I treat the partners I respect like they’re another client and anticipate their needs. Juniors don’t have to go quite that far, but being proactive and engaged goes a long way in addition to communicating when you don’t have much capacity.

[Poldy]

There are many fine juniors. It’s just that they’re quickly accounted for, and as a lateral I’m dealt the undesirable juniors who disappear unannounced all the time and produce sloppy drafts of the most basic assignments.

My advice would be to get under the wing of someone very knowledgable and reasonable. They’ll look out for you, won’t flood you with work, will cover for you, and will teach you all their best tips. In exchange, you have to find a way to make their life easier. As a senior, I treat the partners I respect like they’re another client and anticipate their needs. Juniors don’t have to go quite that far, but being proactive and engaged goes a long way in addition to communicating when you don’t have much capacity.

Agree with this 100%. Finding a senior associate and a partner that fit that description made all the difference for me and I try to be that midlevel to the juniors that are willing to put in some effort.

[Anonymous User]

It’s not just the taking off tons of evenings and weekends, it’s the playing dumb like they had no idea we’d be working on the deals with 250 emails flying around at those times. It’s also the constant delayed responses saying I can jump on this in a few hours, when they know that means the midlevel/senior will have already done it. Being a junior can suck. I felt like I was standing on the sidelines in my pads with my helmet ready, just waiting to check in for a few plays at the least desirable times. That’s awful and not how it should work, but now days the juniors are often nowhere to be found and then are like oh let me tie my cleats, oh where’s my helmet every time you call their number (to take this analogy too too far).

These juniors came into big law in a world where weekdays and weekends completely blended together during the pandemic. There has been an excess of work going around and firms are bleeding talent.

These juniors should be commended for taking some small steps towards re-establishing boundaries. Because even with these small push backs, the juniors are still going to bill an obscene amount and help pad that partner’s paychecks. It’s not like they’re losing the firm money at 2000, 2100, or more hours.

Yeah, except them "establishing boundaries" means the burden falls on the mid and senior associates above them. You aren't "sticking it to the man", you are hurting your "fellow man".

I don't know who needs to hear this but senior associates are not workers to be in solidarity with, they are middle managers

So the above I think is the general attitude of some juniors that have become much more ubiquitous post-covid and is enraging.

The current attitude ITT of juniors is "protecting muh boundaries" - that is fine, but timelines aren't changing. Workload is not changing because of your boundaries. Share partners are not working more because of your boundaries. Instead, Seniors/Mids are just working more.

Honestly, I think everyone can do a bit more with the protection of boundaries. Not saying this is always the case, but I see a lot of assignments that are coming in, presented as a firedrill, but realistically could have waited a few days. Even this week I saw a junior on one of my deals pull an all-nighter, purely because someone higher on the foodchain overpromised something. The client even indicated they didn't need it so quickly per se, but in a desperate need to impress, a junior's night was ruined.

I obviously think it's insane associates are not willing to put in the work an generally weekends are fair game, but let's not act a lot of this work pressure comes from type a folk that can't say no or manage expectations. This obviously doesn't fall squarely on the shoulders of the seniors (it all starts with the partners), but I truly believe this whole idea that we all are doing important work and that if it wasn't done by a certain deadline it all would fall apart, is just a joke.

[Anonymous User]

Off topic, but at my firm, juniors are first and second years, mid-levels third and fourth, and seniors fifth and above. Is this normal?

[Anonymous User]

Off topic, but at my firm, juniors are first and second years, mid-levels third and fourth, and seniors fifth and above. Is this normal?

I think 5th years being considered seniors is pretty abnormal. Some firms consider 6th years midlevels.

[Anonymous User]

Off topic, but at my firm, juniors are first and second years, mid-levels third and fourth, and seniors fifth and above. Is this normal?

It's not, but same here. Entire 6th year class and most of the 4th year class left my group, so some rebalancing has taken place.

[Anonymous User]

My firm has a formal title of Senior Associate at 7+ so it'd be weird to call 5th / 6th years seniors. Not sure where midlevel starts unofficially, I guess 3d years? If we had any.

[Anonymous User]

It’s not just the taking off tons of evenings and weekends, it’s the playing dumb like they had no idea we’d be working on the deals with 250 emails flying around at those times. It’s also the constant delayed responses saying I can jump on this in a few hours, when they know that means the midlevel/senior will have already done it. Being a junior can suck. I felt like I was standing on the sidelines in my pads with my helmet ready, just waiting to check in for a few plays at the least desirable times. That’s awful and not how it should work, but now days the juniors are often nowhere to be found and then are like oh let me tie my cleats, oh where’s my helmet every time you call their number (to take this analogy too too far).

These juniors came into big law in a world where weekdays and weekends completely blended together during the pandemic. There has been an excess of work going around and firms are bleeding talent.

These juniors should be commended for taking some small steps towards re-establishing boundaries. Because even with these small push backs, the juniors are still going to bill an obscene amount and help pad that partner’s paychecks. It’s not like they’re losing the firm money at 2000, 2100, or more hours.

Yeah, except them "establishing boundaries" means the burden falls on the mid and senior associates above them. You aren't "sticking it to the man", you are hurting your "fellow man".

I don't know who needs to hear this but senior associates are not workers to be in solidarity with, they are middle managers

So the above I think is the general attitude of some juniors that have become much more ubiquitous post-covid and is enraging.

The current attitude ITT of juniors is "protecting muh boundaries" - that is fine, but timelines aren't changing. Workload is not changing because of your boundaries. Share partners are not working more because of your boundaries. Instead, Seniors/Mids are just working more.

Honestly, I think everyone can do a bit more with the protection of boundaries. Not saying this is always the case, but I see a lot of assignments that are coming in, presented as a firedrill, but realistically could have waited a few days. Even this week I saw a junior on one of my deals pull an all-nighter, purely because someone higher on the foodchain overpromised something. The client even indicated they didn't need it so quickly per se, but in a desperate need to impress, a junior's night was ruined.

I obviously think it's insane associates are not willing to put in the work an generally weekends are fair game, but let's not act a lot of this work pressure comes from type a folk that can't say no or manage expectations. This obviously doesn't fall squarely on the shoulders of the seniors (it all starts with the partners), but I truly believe this whole idea that we all are doing important work and that if it wasn't done by a certain deadline it all would fall apart, is just a joke.

Yes you are right. If a partner burns you with a fake deadline, do your best to avoid that partner. But the push back here is coming from the idea that it is OK to push back on seniors/midlevels and that somehow this "boundary setting" will flow up. It doesn't. The senior/midlevel just has to do your work in addition to their work. That is why current crop of juniors is generally frowned upon. There are good juniors who get it though.

All that said, if there is a senior/midlevel who is putting fake deadlines on you, then that is fine, feel free to push back. But understand that this really is not all that common. You will KNOW when it is fake. There is an infamous KE associate in Austin who is directly responsible for probably like 10 juniors leaving so far, and he is famous for making up his own diligence assignments, giving fake deadlines etc. Only the most desperate juniors have to work with him. The partners know about him (have had conversations where they call him a "psycho") but keep staffing him because he gets the deal done (by breaking the backs of his subordinates). This is a person juniors should push back on. Not the nice senior who is overworked and trying to juggle fake deadlines set by partners.

[Anonymous User]

I wonder how much of the perceived increase in boundaries setting is due to a uniquely short-term view of biglaw amongst the covid classes (particularly the current second and third years).

I'm a second year and I think that I am pretty good about being responsive and available (basically for the purpose of not hanging midlevels I like out to dry). But I view biglaw a box I need to tick more or less akin to legal residency, and have no desire whatsoever to be a senior or even really a 4th+ year in a biglaw firm. If I were to get the talk in a couple months along with some website time and a paid window to find a new job, I'm sure that I'd be more worried than I'm imagining now, but I also think that I'd ultimately be ok and it would probably be a net positive for my quality of life moving forward. I've felt that way since about 3 months in, and based on conversations with my firm and law school classmates, I would say that that view is the consensus among corporate juniors in my year.

Now, I'm sure some of that is the naive worldview of a group of associates who have only ever known an extremely hot corporate legal market, but I wonder if associate classes are entering biglaw with less desire to stick it out long-term than the classes before them (and thus feel less of an impetus to be a good junior associate). I also wonder if midlevels/seniors/partners have always felt this way about juniors (i.e. "we were better when we were juniors"), since its sort of a self-selecting group of good ones who make it to that level anyway.

[Anonymous User]

It’s not just the taking off tons of evenings and weekends, it’s the playing dumb like they had no idea we’d be working on the deals with 250 emails flying around at those times. It’s also the constant delayed responses saying I can jump on this in a few hours, when they know that means the midlevel/senior will have already done it. Being a junior can suck. I felt like I was standing on the sidelines in my pads with my helmet ready, just waiting to check in for a few plays at the least desirable times. That’s awful and not how it should work, but now days the juniors are often nowhere to be found and then are like oh let me tie my cleats, oh where’s my helmet every time you call their number (to take this analogy too too far).

These juniors came into big law in a world where weekdays and weekends completely blended together during the pandemic. There has been an excess of work going around and firms are bleeding talent.

These juniors should be commended for taking some small steps towards re-establishing boundaries. Because even with these small push backs, the juniors are still going to bill an obscene amount and help pad that partner’s paychecks. It’s not like they’re losing the firm money at 2000, 2100, or more hours.

Yeah, except them "establishing boundaries" means the burden falls on the mid and senior associates above them. You aren't "sticking it to the man", you are hurting your "fellow man".

I don't know who needs to hear this but senior associates are not workers to be in solidarity with, they are middle managers

So the above I think is the general attitude of some juniors that have become much more ubiquitous post-covid and is enraging.

The current attitude ITT of juniors is "protecting muh boundaries" - that is fine, but timelines aren't changing. Workload is not changing because of your boundaries. Share partners are not working more because of your boundaries. Instead, Seniors/Mids are just working more.

Honestly, I think everyone can do a bit more with the protection of boundaries. Not saying this is always the case, but I see a lot of assignments that are coming in, presented as a firedrill, but realistically could have waited a few days. Even this week I saw a junior on one of my deals pull an all-nighter, purely because someone higher on the foodchain overpromised something. The client even indicated they didn't need it so quickly per se, but in a desperate need to impress, a junior's night was ruined.

I obviously think it's insane associates are not willing to put in the work an generally weekends are fair game, but let's not act a lot of this work pressure comes from type a folk that can't say no or manage expectations. This obviously doesn't fall squarely on the shoulders of the seniors (it all starts with the partners), but I truly believe this whole idea that we all are doing important work and that if it wasn't done by a certain deadline it all would fall apart, is just a joke.

Yes you are right. If a partner burns you with a fake deadline, do your best to avoid that partner. But the push back here is coming from the idea that it is OK to push back on seniors/midlevels and that somehow this "boundary setting" will flow up. It doesn't. The senior/midlevel just has to do your work in addition to their work. That is why current crop of juniors is generally frowned upon. There are good juniors who get it though.

All that said, if there is a senior/midlevel who is putting fake deadlines on you, then that is fine, feel free to push back. But understand that this really is not all that common. You will KNOW when it is fake. There is an infamous KE associate in Austin who is directly responsible for probably like 10 juniors leaving so far, and he is famous for making up his own diligence assignments, giving fake deadlines etc. Only the most desperate juniors have to work with him. The partners know about him (have had conversations where they call him a "psycho") but keep staffing him because he gets the deal done (by breaking the backs of his subordinates). This is a person juniors should push back on. Not the nice senior who is overworked and trying to juggle fake deadlines set by partners.

IME so far a first year, my "pushback" has more to do with communication and expectation-setting by the midlevel (or senior). If I'm talking to the midlevel consistently and they tell me "hey we're going to have to work this weekend/late tonight, we have tasks xyz and you'll have to do this and that" then it's all good, happy to help and contribute. But if the midlevel gives me some generic "hey be on call all weekend" and then doesn't explain to me what I'll need to be ready for and doesn't send me an email for days until I wake up on a Tuesday with an 11:45pm Monday night email asking me to do something with a 12:30am "where are we on this?" then no, I'm not going to feel bad about not responding until the task is done at 9:45 Tuesday morning.

edit to say that the latter situation was on an M&A which was my first merger and signing was to take place over the weekend; I was kind of lost on what was happening on the deal and despite calling the midlevel to tell them I was lost and having trouble understanding what the next steps were, he just said "nah you're doing fine" and then didn't really explain anything else while expecting me to know what I was supposed to be doing

[Anonymous User]

I wonder how much of the perceived increase in boundaries setting is due to a uniquely short-term view of biglaw amongst the covid classes (particularly the current second and third years).

I'm a second year and I think that I am pretty good about being responsive and available (basically for the purpose of not hanging midlevels I like out to dry). But I view biglaw a box I need to tick more or less akin to legal residency, and have no desire whatsoever to be a senior or even really a 4th+ year in a biglaw firm. If I were to get the talk in a couple months along with some website time and a paid window to find a new job, I'm sure that I'd be more worried than I'm imagining now, but I also think that I'd ultimately be ok and it would probably be a net positive for my quality of life moving forward. I've felt that way since about 3 months in, and based on conversations with my firm and law school classmates, I would say that that view is the consensus among corporate juniors in my year.

Now, I'm sure some of that is the naive worldview of a group of associates who have only ever known an extremely hot corporate legal market, but I wonder if associate classes are entering biglaw with less desire to stick it out long-term than the classes before them (and thus feel less of an impetus to be a good junior associate). I also wonder if midlevels/seniors/partners have always felt this way about juniors (i.e. "we were better when we were juniors"), since its sort of a self-selecting group of good ones who make it to that level anyway.

It's this plus the seniors and partners started out in a much tougher environment where it was harder to get biglaw and stay. If the seniors wanted to, they have just as much leverage to push back. More even. But it's ingrained in them to just accept whatever they get and blame their employees (who are working hard!!).

[Anonymous User]

I think it would be helpful to post some more concrete advice. Here are my (NY corporate) tips for what I think the pandemic juniors are generally handling more poorly than the non-pandemic juniors:

1. Always send a redline with your draft, along with a Word draft. If it's an interim draft, send a redline against the original precedent AND a redline against the draft the more senior associate previously reviewed.

2. If you can't do something right away, respond and let the associate know of your expected timeline, instead of leaving the email un-responded to for an entire day. This goes for both weekday and weekend emails (although you have more leeway on response time on weekends). If you're on vacation and get an assignment, remind them that you're on vacation and can handle upon your return if someone else can't get to it sooner.

3. When you go on vacation and the matter seems busy, offer to find coverage.

4. When you go on vacation, let everyone on your team know at least two weeks in advance, preferably more if you already know when signing/closing is due to take place, and then remind them again 2-3 days in advance. Put up an out-of-office message when you're out.

5. Proofread your draft before sending. Use spell check and do a defined terms check. Make sure signature page footers, draft headers, page numbers, etc. are properly formatted. Make sure font sizes, fonts, quotation marks and colors (e.g., in tables) are consistent. Make sure entity names are spelled correctly, have the correct signatories and have commas and periods in the correct places. It's very frustrating for a senior associate to be fixing these types of basic formatting issues over and over again.

6. When turning a hand markup, double check the hand markup two or three times before sending the draft. People who have issues with consistently missing comments should print out the draft and check off/highlight each change as they go through the draft. This helps make sure that nothing is missed, even if it's something tiny like an added comma.

7. If your deal is actively signing or closing, do not sign off until the rest of the team signs off or someone tells you that you can sign off. This doesn't apply to a typical day - this is only for the day that you are literally signing or closing the deal. You may also need to stay online for a few hours after signing and closing to help compile executed documents. The day of signing or closing is the day on which you need to cancel all your social plans, no exceptions. Luckily you will usually know this day in advance and can plan accordingly.

8. On a typical weekday, I would say you should generally be online from 10 AM to 6 PM at a minimum, or, if you truly have nothing to do, at least have your phone on you with notifications on loud so that you can respond promptly.

9. Gather all your questions and ask them in one email / phone call. Do not shoot off 50 one-off questions on instant message unless you're close with your senior/mid-level - that's annoying to most people. Also, make a good faith attempt to answer your own question before asking other people - many things can be answered via Google or searching precedents on the system.

10. As someone else mentioned, read all emails carefully and completely, even if they don't appear to apply to you. This will help you understand the deal, even if it seems like gibberish at first.

11. If you're a first year, I wouldn't send a task to a paralegal unless the more senior associate specifically instructs you to. If you don't know how to do an assignment yourself or have never done it before, you shouldn't delegate it, because then you won't know how to review the work from the person you delegated it to.

12. Learn what proofreading marks look like.

13. If someone gives you an assignment and you complete it, you should let the associate know and send the updated document, no matter how simple the change was. ("FYI, this has been completed - see attached.") Don't just say "OK" without sending the updated document or confirming that the task is done.

14. Ask your questions to the person directly above you. For example, if you're a first year and on a team with a third year and a sixth year, ask the third year your questions before you go to the sixth year. If the third year doesn't know, then you can go to the sixth year.

15. Do not ask for the more senior associates to re-send you documents and information that they've already sent you. Don't be lazy - just pull it from the system / prior emails yourself. This is a one-way street - they can ask you, as the junior, to send them the same documents over and over again, but you shouldn't do the same to them. Might seem unfair but keep in mind they have 10x more emails than you and way more matters / teams to manage.

16. It is your job to save down documents and keep checklists updated on a daily basis, unless told otherwise. If a document comes in from opposing counsel, you should save it, even if it's not "your" document.

Just my two cents.

[Anonymous User]

I think it would be helpful to post some more concrete advice. Here are my (NY corporate) tips for what I think the pandemic juniors are generally handling more poorly than the non-pandemic juniors:

1. Always send a redline with your draft, along with a Word draft. If it's an interim draft, send a redline against the original precedent AND a redline against the draft the more senior associate previously reviewed.

2. If you can't do something right away, respond and let the associate know of your expected timeline, instead of leaving the email un-responded to for an entire day. This goes for both weekday and weekend emails (although you have more leeway on response time on weekends). If you're on vacation and get an assignment, remind them that you're on vacation and can handle upon your return if someone else can't get to it sooner.

3. When you go on vacation and the matter seems busy, offer to find coverage.

4. When you go on vacation, let everyone on your team know at least two weeks in advance, preferably more if you already know when signing/closing is due to take place, and then remind them again 2-3 days in advance. Put up an out-of-office message when you're out.

5. Proofread your draft before sending. Use spell check and do a defined terms check. Make sure signature page footers, draft headers, page numbers, etc. are properly formatted. Make sure font sizes, fonts, quotation marks and colors (e.g., in tables) are consistent. Make sure entity names are spelled correctly, have the correct signatories and have commas and periods in the correct places. It's very frustrating for a senior associate to be fixing these types of basic formatting issues over and over again.

6. When turning a hand markup, double check the hand markup two or three times before sending the draft. People who have issues with consistently missing comments should print out the draft and check off/highlight each change as they go through the draft. This helps make sure that nothing is missed, even if it's something tiny like an added comma.

7. If your deal is actively signing or closing, do not sign off until the rest of the team signs off or someone tells you that you can sign off. This doesn't apply to a typical day - this is only for the day that you are literally signing or closing the deal. You may also need to stay online for a few hours after signing and closing to help compile executed documents. The day of signing or closing is the day on which you need to cancel all your social plans, no exceptions. Luckily you will usually know this day in advance and can plan accordingly.

8. On a typical weekday, I would say you should generally be online from 10 AM to 6 PM at a minimum, or, if you truly have nothing to do, at least have your phone on you with notifications on loud so that you can respond promptly.

9. Gather all your questions and ask them in one email / phone call. Do not shoot off 50 one-off questions on instant message unless you're close with your senior/mid-level - that's annoying to most people. Also, make a good faith attempt to answer your own question before asking other people - many things can be answered via Google or searching precedents on the system.

10. As someone else mentioned, read all emails carefully and completely, even if they don't appear to apply to you. This will help you understand the deal, even if it seems like gibberish at first.

11. If you're a first year, I wouldn't send a task to a paralegal unless the more senior associate specifically instructs you to. If you don't know how to do an assignment yourself or have never done it before, you shouldn't delegate it, because then you won't know how to review the work from the person you delegated it to.

12. Learn what proofreading marks look like.

13. If someone gives you an assignment and you complete it, you should let the associate know and send the updated document, no matter how simple the change was. ("FYI, this has been completed - see attached.") Don't just say "OK" without sending the updated document or confirming that the task is done.

14. Ask your questions to the person directly above you. For example, if you're a first year and on a team with a third year and a sixth year, ask the third year your questions before you go to the sixth year. If the third year doesn't know, then you can go to the sixth year.

15. Do not ask for the more senior associates to re-send you documents and information that they've already sent you. Don't be lazy - just pull it from the system / prior emails yourself. This is a one-way street - they can ask you, as the junior, to send them the same documents over and over again, but you shouldn't do the same to them. Might seem unfair but keep in mind they have 10x more emails than you and way more matters / teams to manage.

16. It is your job to save down documents and keep checklists updated on a daily basis, unless told otherwise. If a document comes in from opposing counsel, you should save it, even if it's not "your" document.

Just my two cents.

Thank you, very helpful.

Can you add some more thoughts around being online. Do you keep your status current on Skype (green, yellow, red).

[blair.waldorf]

I think it would be helpful to post some more concrete advice. Here are my (NY corporate) tips for what I think the pandemic juniors are generally handling more poorly than the non-pandemic juniors:

1. Always send a redline with your draft, along with a Word draft. If it's an interim draft, send a redline against the original precedent AND a redline against the draft the more senior associate previously reviewed.

2. If you can't do something right away, respond and let the associate know of your expected timeline, instead of leaving the email un-responded to for an entire day. This goes for both weekday and weekend emails (although you have more leeway on response time on weekends). If you're on vacation and get an assignment, remind them that you're on vacation and can handle upon your return if someone else can't get to it sooner.

3. When you go on vacation and the matter seems busy, offer to find coverage.

4. When you go on vacation, let everyone on your team know at least two weeks in advance, preferably more if you already know when signing/closing is due to take place, and then remind them again 2-3 days in advance. Put up an out-of-office message when you're out.

5. Proofread your draft before sending. Use spell check and do a defined terms check. Make sure signature page footers, draft headers, page numbers, etc. are properly formatted. Make sure font sizes, fonts, quotation marks and colors (e.g., in tables) are consistent. Make sure entity names are spelled correctly, have the correct signatories and have commas and periods in the correct places. It's very frustrating for a senior associate to be fixing these types of basic formatting issues over and over again.

6. When turning a hand markup, double check the hand markup two or three times before sending the draft. People who have issues with consistently missing comments should print out the draft and check off/highlight each change as they go through the draft. This helps make sure that nothing is missed, even if it's something tiny like an added comma.

7. If your deal is actively signing or closing, do not sign off until the rest of the team signs off or someone tells you that you can sign off. This doesn't apply to a typical day - this is only for the day that you are literally signing or closing the deal. You may also need to stay online for a few hours after signing and closing to help compile executed documents. The day of signing or closing is the day on which you need to cancel all your social plans, no exceptions. Luckily you will usually know this day in advance and can plan accordingly.

8. On a typical weekday, I would say you should generally be online from 10 AM to 6 PM at a minimum, or, if you truly have nothing to do, at least have your phone on you with notifications on loud so that you can respond promptly.

9. Gather all your questions and ask them in one email / phone call. Do not shoot off 50 one-off questions on instant message unless you're close with your senior/mid-level - that's annoying to most people. Also, make a good faith attempt to answer your own question before asking other people - many things can be answered via Google or searching precedents on the system.

10. As someone else mentioned, read all emails carefully and completely, even if they don't appear to apply to you. This will help you understand the deal, even if it seems like gibberish at first.

11. If you're a first year, I wouldn't send a task to a paralegal unless the more senior associate specifically instructs you to. If you don't know how to do an assignment yourself or have never done it before, you shouldn't delegate it, because then you won't know how to review the work from the person you delegated it to.

12. Learn what proofreading marks look like.

13. If someone gives you an assignment and you complete it, you should let the associate know and send the updated document, no matter how simple the change was. ("FYI, this has been completed - see attached.") Don't just say "OK" without sending the updated document or confirming that the task is done.

14. Ask your questions to the person directly above you. For example, if you're a first year and on a team with a third year and a sixth year, ask the third year your questions before you go to the sixth year. If the third year doesn't know, then you can go to the sixth year.

15. Do not ask for the more senior associates to re-send you documents and information that they've already sent you. Don't be lazy - just pull it from the system / prior emails yourself. This is a one-way street - they can ask you, as the junior, to send them the same documents over and over again, but you shouldn't do the same to them. Might seem unfair but keep in mind they have 10x more emails than you and way more matters / teams to manage.

16. It is your job to save down documents and keep checklists updated on a daily basis, unless told otherwise. If a document comes in from opposing counsel, you should save it, even if it's not "your" document.

Just my two cents.

Thank you, very helpful.

Can you add some more thoughts around being online. Do you keep your status current on Skype (green, yellow, red).

Discussions around Skype status drive me insane and I would never work at a firm where those senior to me tracked my status. If I’m relatively slow, why does it matter if my status is away for an hour while I eat lunch or run an errand? I always have my phone on me and can respond immediately to any requests, and if necessary, run back to my computer. Sometimes I’m at the doctor or dentist or whatever. Hell, sometimes my chat app just closes and I don’t realize it because my seniors don’t really communicate with me via chat (they email or call me). Sometimes I log on and it takes awhile for my chat app to change my status from away to online.

As long as you respond to emails, it should not matter whether you are at your desk if you don’t have something you are actively working on that needs to be done asap. The autonomy is one of the only positives about biglaw: I can’t believe some people stress over their effing Skype status. This job is hard enough without adding unnecessary stress.

[Anonymous User]

I think it would be helpful to post some more concrete advice. Here are my (NY corporate) tips for what I think the pandemic juniors are generally handling more poorly than the non-pandemic juniors:

1. Always send a redline with your draft, along with a Word draft. If it's an interim draft, send a redline against the original precedent AND a redline against the draft the more senior associate previously reviewed.

2. If you can't do something right away, respond and let the associate know of your expected timeline, instead of leaving the email un-responded to for an entire day. This goes for both weekday and weekend emails (although you have more leeway on response time on weekends). If you're on vacation and get an assignment, remind them that you're on vacation and can handle upon your return if someone else can't get to it sooner.

3. When you go on vacation and the matter seems busy, offer to find coverage.

4. When you go on vacation, let everyone on your team know at least two weeks in advance, preferably more if you already know when signing/closing is due to take place, and then remind them again 2-3 days in advance. Put up an out-of-office message when you're out.

5. Proofread your draft before sending. Use spell check and do a defined terms check. Make sure signature page footers, draft headers, page numbers, etc. are properly formatted. Make sure font sizes, fonts, quotation marks and colors (e.g., in tables) are consistent. Make sure entity names are spelled correctly, have the correct signatories and have commas and periods in the correct places. It's very frustrating for a senior associate to be fixing these types of basic formatting issues over and over again.

6. When turning a hand markup, double check the hand markup two or three times before sending the draft. People who have issues with consistently missing comments should print out the draft and check off/highlight each change as they go through the draft. This helps make sure that nothing is missed, even if it's something tiny like an added comma.

7. If your deal is actively signing or closing, do not sign off until the rest of the team signs off or someone tells you that you can sign off. This doesn't apply to a typical day - this is only for the day that you are literally signing or closing the deal. You may also need to stay online for a few hours after signing and closing to help compile executed documents. The day of signing or closing is the day on which you need to cancel all your social plans, no exceptions. Luckily you will usually know this day in advance and can plan accordingly.

8. On a typical weekday, I would say you should generally be online from 10 AM to 6 PM at a minimum, or, if you truly have nothing to do, at least have your phone on you with notifications on loud so that you can respond promptly.

9. Gather all your questions and ask them in one email / phone call. Do not shoot off 50 one-off questions on instant message unless you're close with your senior/mid-level - that's annoying to most people. Also, make a good faith attempt to answer your own question before asking other people - many things can be answered via Google or searching precedents on the system.

10. As someone else mentioned, read all emails carefully and completely, even if they don't appear to apply to you. This will help you understand the deal, even if it seems like gibberish at first.

11. If you're a first year, I wouldn't send a task to a paralegal unless the more senior associate specifically instructs you to. If you don't know how to do an assignment yourself or have never done it before, you shouldn't delegate it, because then you won't know how to review the work from the person you delegated it to.

12. Learn what proofreading marks look like.

13. If someone gives you an assignment and you complete it, you should let the associate know and send the updated document, no matter how simple the change was. ("FYI, this has been completed - see attached.") Don't just say "OK" without sending the updated document or confirming that the task is done.

14. Ask your questions to the person directly above you. For example, if you're a first year and on a team with a third year and a sixth year, ask the third year your questions before you go to the sixth year. If the third year doesn't know, then you can go to the sixth year.

15. Do not ask for the more senior associates to re-send you documents and information that they've already sent you. Don't be lazy - just pull it from the system / prior emails yourself. This is a one-way street - they can ask you, as the junior, to send them the same documents over and over again, but you shouldn't do the same to them. Might seem unfair but keep in mind they have 10x more emails than you and way more matters / teams to manage.

16. It is your job to save down documents and keep checklists updated on a daily basis, unless told otherwise. If a document comes in from opposing counsel, you should save it, even if it's not "your" document.

Just my two cents.

This is great advice that I wish I'd had on day one and mostly picked up the hard way since. Only thing I'd add is get really good at email management. For me, this meant learning how to search by date, to/from/cc, etc. I tried folders and they didn't work for me. But I've gotten so I can find the email I need within 2-3 minutes.

Follow up questions -
9. I find that ppl will not always see or respond to email but will respond to messages. Maybe it's because messages don't get forwarded and get auto deleted while email is forever? Whatever the reason, if I find it's the best way to get my answers, doesn't it make sense to go with what works?

14. What about if I have a relationship with the partner/senior but have never worked with the junior? Still same rule?

16. I feel like some midlevels are territorial about the checklists and docs? I don't always feel like taking on that role unless it's been specifically assigned to me. Should I be doing that anyway?

I guess in general what's weird about biglaw (lack of proper) management is bring expected to do things without ever being told to. We're not mind readers. Tell me to do x, I'll do it. Don't be "why didn't this happen" when you never told me it needed to be done.

[NoLongerALurker]

I get the impression a lot of juniors think training sucks because of COVID, and are under the completely misguided notion that training would be any better in person.

[Anonymous User]

I think it would be helpful to post some more concrete advice. Here are my (NY corporate) tips for what I think the pandemic juniors are generally handling more poorly than the non-pandemic juniors:

1. Always send a redline with your draft, along with a Word draft. If it's an interim draft, send a redline against the original precedent AND a redline against the draft the more senior associate previously reviewed.

2. If you can't do something right away, respond and let the associate know of your expected timeline, instead of leaving the email un-responded to for an entire day. This goes for both weekday and weekend emails (although you have more leeway on response time on weekends). If you're on vacation and get an assignment, remind them that you're on vacation and can handle upon your return if someone else can't get to it sooner.

3. When you go on vacation and the matter seems busy, offer to find coverage.

4. When you go on vacation, let everyone on your team know at least two weeks in advance, preferably more if you already know when signing/closing is due to take place, and then remind them again 2-3 days in advance. Put up an out-of-office message when you're out.

5. Proofread your draft before sending. Use spell check and do a defined terms check. Make sure signature page footers, draft headers, page numbers, etc. are properly formatted. Make sure font sizes, fonts, quotation marks and colors (e.g., in tables) are consistent. Make sure entity names are spelled correctly, have the correct signatories and have commas and periods in the correct places. It's very frustrating for a senior associate to be fixing these types of basic formatting issues over and over again.

6. When turning a hand markup, double check the hand markup two or three times before sending the draft. People who have issues with consistently missing comments should print out the draft and check off/highlight each change as they go through the draft. This helps make sure that nothing is missed, even if it's something tiny like an added comma.

7. If your deal is actively signing or closing, do not sign off until the rest of the team signs off or someone tells you that you can sign off. This doesn't apply to a typical day - this is only for the day that you are literally signing or closing the deal. You may also need to stay online for a few hours after signing and closing to help compile executed documents. The day of signing or closing is the day on which you need to cancel all your social plans, no exceptions. Luckily you will usually know this day in advance and can plan accordingly.

8. On a typical weekday, I would say you should generally be online from 10 AM to 6 PM at a minimum, or, if you truly have nothing to do, at least have your phone on you with notifications on loud so that you can respond promptly.

9. Gather all your questions and ask them in one email / phone call. Do not shoot off 50 one-off questions on instant message unless you're close with your senior/mid-level - that's annoying to most people. Also, make a good faith attempt to answer your own question before asking other people - many things can be answered via Google or searching precedents on the system.

10. As someone else mentioned, read all emails carefully and completely, even if they don't appear to apply to you. This will help you understand the deal, even if it seems like gibberish at first.

11. If you're a first year, I wouldn't send a task to a paralegal unless the more senior associate specifically instructs you to. If you don't know how to do an assignment yourself or have never done it before, you shouldn't delegate it, because then you won't know how to review the work from the person you delegated it to.

12. Learn what proofreading marks look like.

13. If someone gives you an assignment and you complete it, you should let the associate know and send the updated document, no matter how simple the change was. ("FYI, this has been completed - see attached.") Don't just say "OK" without sending the updated document or confirming that the task is done.

14. Ask your questions to the person directly above you. For example, if you're a first year and on a team with a third year and a sixth year, ask the third year your questions before you go to the sixth year. If the third year doesn't know, then you can go to the sixth year.

15. Do not ask for the more senior associates to re-send you documents and information that they've already sent you. Don't be lazy - just pull it from the system / prior emails yourself. This is a one-way street - they can ask you, as the junior, to send them the same documents over and over again, but you shouldn't do the same to them. Might seem unfair but keep in mind they have 10x more emails than you and way more matters / teams to manage.

16. It is your job to save down documents and keep checklists updated on a daily basis, unless told otherwise. If a document comes in from opposing counsel, you should save it, even if it's not "your" document.

Just my two cents.

Thank you, very helpful.

Can you add some more thoughts around being online. Do you keep your status current on Skype (green, yellow, red).

Discussions around Skype status drive me insane and I would never work at a firm where those senior to me tracked my status. If I’m relatively slow, why does it matter if my status is away for an hour while I eat lunch or run an errand? I always have my phone on me and can respond immediately to any requests, and if necessary, run back to my computer. Sometimes I’m at the doctor or dentist or whatever. Hell, sometimes my chat app just closes and I don’t realize it because my seniors don’t really communicate with me via chat (they email or call me). Sometimes I log on and it takes awhile for my chat app to change my status from away to online.

As long as you respond to emails, it should not matter whether you are at your desk if you don’t have something you are actively working on that needs to be done asap. The autonomy is one of the only positives about biglaw: I can’t believe some people stress over their effing Skype status. This job is hard enough without adding unnecessary stress.

One thing I've unilaterally decided is that it's perfectly fine to respond within the hour or so (unless in the middle of a closing or something). You email me and then call me 3 times? That's nice. Maybe I'm on my commute or eating dinner or just accidentally left my phone in the other room. Sorry if this makes me a bad junior but it's by necessity, I just can't be tethered. And it's never actually urgent.

[Anonymous User]

5. Proofread your draft before sending. Use spell check and do a defined terms check. Make sure signature page footers, draft headers, page numbers, etc. are properly formatted. Make sure font sizes, fonts, quotation marks and colors (e.g., in tables) are consistent. Make sure entity names are spelled correctly, have the correct signatories and have commas and periods in the correct places. It's very frustrating for a senior associate to be fixing these types of basic formatting issues over and over again.

Maybe this varies by practice, but I can't imagine expecting a junior to sua sponte do a defined terms check on an interim or early draft of a 600+ page offering document or doing essentially a final pre-print proof (font size, quotation, etc. consistency) for each draft...those are moving targets and relatively heavy lift tasks that should be done near the end of the process (with the exception that if you're adding language with capitalized terms to a doc you should check that the terms are consistent with what's in the doc as you go). I also generally view the full-fledged defined terms check as a paralegal task and would be annoyed if I found out my junior could have gotten me the doc 6 hours earlier but for doing essentially an entirely different task from what I asked them to do.

General rule of thumb - if something outside the bounds of your explicitly assigned task seems like it would take a long time to do...ask before doing it. Also, try to get a sense of how long the person assigning you the task thinks it should take. If it seems like the task is taking much longer than that...check back and make sure you correctly understand the assignment.

[The Lsat Airbender]

Follow up questions -

Not that anon, but:

9. I find that ppl will not always see or respond to email but will respond to messages. Maybe it's because messages don't get forwarded and get auto deleted while email is forever? Whatever the reason, if I find it's the best way to get my answers, doesn't it make sense to go with what works?

People respond on Skype because it's more annoying and requires a response or it gets "lost", on par with a phone call. Maybe I'm old but each individual IM I receive is about as annoying as getting a phone call, and a phone call tends to clear things up much more quickly than a back-and-forth chat session. The *main* usefulness of IM in my experience is that I can use it to talk to people while on the phone, and it's possible to send things like screenshots.

If you need quick confirmation, IM is a decent way to go, but don't expend goodwill pinging someone about a dozen little things that could have been wrapped into one email (and then, perhaps, followed up by a ping or phone call if urgent).

14. What about if I have a relationship with the partner/senior but have never worked with the junior? Still same rule?

Yes. Among other things, you ought to be developing a relationship with the junior in this situation. Going all-in on one senior/partner is a bad political move (they might leave/retire, and you probably won't work with them on every project).

From a career/QoL perspective, try to be on "poke my head into your office for a quick question or just to say hi" terms with as many people as possible, from partners to associates to paralegals, secretaries and other staff. This will pay dividends.

16. I feel like some midlevels are territorial about the checklists and docs? I don't always feel like taking on that role unless it's been specifically assigned to me. Should I be doing that anyway?

This will vary. But I'd try keeping things organized on your own end, which will help you keep abreast of what's going on (useful for your own purposes in terms of work/life management) and also you'll look like a whiz if anyone ever asks "hey did we get X? / what's outstanding on Y?"

Better yet, ask, although I understand how it's hard to ask for unfun work.

I guess in general what's weird about biglaw (lack of proper) management is bring expected to do things without ever being told to. We're not mind readers. Tell me to do x, I'll do it. Don't be "why didn't this happen" when you never told me it needed to be done.

Not to defend it, but I think this proliferation of unwritten rules is common to many other professions. Food service comes to mind. The important thing is not to take it personally when people gripe about your not doing something they didn't ask for.

Maybe this varies by practice, but I can't imagine expecting a junior to sua sponte do a defined terms check on an interim or early draft of a 600+ page offering document or doing essentially a final pre-print proof (font size, quotation, etc. consistency) for each draft...those are moving targets and relatively heavy lift tasks that should be done near the end of the process (with the exception that if you're adding language with capitalized terms to a doc you should check that the terms are consistent with what's in the doc as you go). I also generally view the full-fledged defined terms check as a paralegal task and would be annoyed if I found out my junior could have gotten me the doc 6 hours earlier but for doing essentially an entirely different task from what I asked them to do.

Yeah, I assume/hope OC just means a quick ctrl+F of any language you're actually working on to make sure no busts are being created. Otherwise that post is excellent.

[Anonymous User]

Follow up questions -

Not that anon, but:

9. I find that ppl will not always see or respond to email but will respond to messages. Maybe it's because messages don't get forwarded and get auto deleted while email is forever? Whatever the reason, if I find it's the best way to get my answers, doesn't it make sense to go with what works?

People respond on Skype because it's more annoying and requires a response or it gets "lost", on par with a phone call. Maybe I'm old but each individual IM I receive is about as annoying as getting a phone call, and a phone call tends to clear things up much more quickly than a back-and-forth chat session. The *main* usefulness of IM in my experience is that I can use it to talk to people while on the phone, and it's possible to send things like screenshots.

If you need quick confirmation, IM is a decent way to go, but don't expend goodwill pinging someone about a dozen little things that could have been wrapped into one email (and then, perhaps, followed up by a ping or phone call if urgent).

14. What about if I have a relationship with the partner/senior but have never worked with the junior? Still same rule?

Yes. Among other things, you ought to be developing a relationship with the junior in this situation. Going all-in on one senior/partner is a bad political move (they might leave/retire, and you probably won't work with them on every project).

From a career/QoL perspective, try to be on "poke my head into your office for a quick question or just to say hi" terms with as many people as possible, from partners to associates to paralegals, secretaries and other staff. This will pay dividends.

16. I feel like some midlevels are territorial about the checklists and docs? I don't always feel like taking on that role unless it's been specifically assigned to me. Should I be doing that anyway?

This will vary. But I'd try keeping things organized on your own end, which will help you keep abreast of what's going on (useful for your own purposes in terms of work/life management) and also you'll look like a whiz if anyone ever asks "hey did we get X? / what's outstanding on Y?"

Better yet, ask, although I understand how it's hard to ask for unfun work.

I guess in general what's weird about biglaw (lack of proper) management is bring expected to do things without ever being told to. We're not mind readers. Tell me to do x, I'll do it. Don't be "why didn't this happen" when you never told me it needed to be done.

Not to defend it, but I think this proliferation of unwritten rules is common to many other professions. Food service comes to mind. The important thing is not to take it personally when people gripe about your not doing something they didn't ask for.

Maybe this varies by practice, but I can't imagine expecting a junior to sua sponte do a defined terms check on an interim or early draft of a 600+ page offering document or doing essentially a final pre-print proof (font size, quotation, etc. consistency) for each draft...those are moving targets and relatively heavy lift tasks that should be done near the end of the process (with the exception that if you're adding language with capitalized terms to a doc you should check that the terms are consistent with what's in the doc as you go). I also generally view the full-fledged defined terms check as a paralegal task and would be annoyed if I found out my junior could have gotten me the doc 6 hours earlier but for doing essentially an entirely different task from what I asked them to do.

Yeah, I assume/hope OC just means a quick ctrl+F of any language you're actually working on to make sure no busts are being created. Otherwise that post is excellent.

Thanks, this is very helpful. I didn't consider IM as equivalent to phone call, maybe it is an age thing (and we don't use Skype but I assume it's the same whatever the messaging service).

I don't have food service industry experience but I have worked before. Biglaw is bad at telling you what's expected. It is what it is. That's why I'm trying to figure it out from threads like these.

[Anonymous User]

I'm the original anon who posted this. Adding some responses below in bold in reply to what others have said. In general, these are of course just my own preferences and your experience will likely differ depending on the firm/group/team that you work with, so don't take any of this too seriously if it seems way off base for your workplace's culture!

I think it would be helpful to post some more concrete advice. Here are my (NY corporate) tips for what I think the pandemic juniors are generally handling more poorly than the non-pandemic juniors:

1. Always send a redline with your draft, along with a Word draft. If it's an interim draft, send a redline against the original precedent AND a redline against the draft the more senior associate previously reviewed.

2. If you can't do something right away, respond and let the associate know of your expected timeline, instead of leaving the email un-responded to for an entire day. This goes for both weekday and weekend emails (although you have more leeway on response time on weekends). If you're on vacation and get an assignment, remind them that you're on vacation and can handle upon your return if someone else can't get to it sooner.

3. When you go on vacation and the matter seems busy, offer to find coverage.

4. When you go on vacation, let everyone on your team know at least two weeks in advance, preferably more if you already know when signing/closing is due to take place, and then remind them again 2-3 days in advance. Put up an out-of-office message when you're out.

5. Proofread your draft before sending. Use spell check and do a defined terms check. Make sure signature page footers, draft headers, page numbers, etc. are properly formatted. Make sure font sizes, fonts, quotation marks and colors (e.g., in tables) are consistent. Make sure entity names are spelled correctly, have the correct signatories and have commas and periods in the correct places. It's very frustrating for a senior associate to be fixing these types of basic formatting issues over and over again.

For the person who mentioned a 600 page document - I wouldn't expect a full defined terms check of the entire document because I wouldn't expect a junior to be editing the whole document. I would expect the junior to be given one particular section of the document, and that particular section should have the correct defined terms, spelling, etc. When I was a first year, I was told that everything I send to someone above me should be as perfect as possible, and that I should treat it as if it was going straight to the client without any further editing for more senior associates or partners. In other words, the work should be taken seriously and there shouldn't be incorrect defined terms or typos because you assume that someone above you will correct it or that it's not worth your precious billable time to fix it. If you, as a junior associate, don't fix it, someone else has to, and your time is worth the least, so it should be you. Clients pay top dollar for us and form is just as important as substance.

Also, maybe your paralegals are better than mine but most of mine could never handle a defined terms check on a 600 page document.

To me, someone who does all of this correctly is someone who has that great "attention to detail" trait that everyone is always looking for. The more you do it, the more automatic it will become to you and the faster and better you'll be at it as you become familiar with typical defined terms, your client's entity names, typical typos, etc. For senior associates, this is all second nature.

6. When turning a hand markup, double check the hand markup two or three times before sending the draft. People who have issues with consistently missing comments should print out the draft and check off/highlight each change as they go through the draft. This helps make sure that nothing is missed, even if it's something tiny like an added comma.

7. If your deal is actively signing or closing, do not sign off until the rest of the team signs off or someone tells you that you can sign off. This doesn't apply to a typical day - this is only for the day that you are literally signing or closing the deal. You may also need to stay online for a few hours after signing and closing to help compile executed documents. The day of signing or closing is the day on which you need to cancel all your social plans, no exceptions. Luckily you will usually know this day in advance and can plan accordingly.

8. On a typical weekday, I would say you should generally be online from 10 AM to 6 PM at a minimum, or, if you truly have nothing to do, at least have your phone on you with notifications on loud so that you can respond promptly.

I keep my Skype status up-to-date but someone being yellow for a few hours when they're slow, out to lunch or at an in-person meeting isn't what I'm referring to. Everyone does that and that's obviously fine and normal. I'm referring to people who are permanently yellow or gray every single day and make themselves completely inaccessible to instant message. Yes, partners do that, but a first or second year probably shouldn't, because it's annoying for their team members to have to call or email them when everyone else on the team is on a group Skype talking about issues in real time but the first year can't be bothered to join because they're never by their computer. Even more annoying when the same person who is never reachable by Skype also never answers or returns phone calls or emails in a timely manner during normal business hours (or at all).

No one is sitting there literally watching your Skype status but it's inevitable that people will notice if you are offline very frequently AND ALSO not sending any emails or doing any work while offline. If you're one of those people who keeps themselves permanently offline but works a lot, then fine, but usually that's a more senior associate who has already earned everyone's trust and not a junior who nobody knows and has never met in real life due to the pandemic.

9. Gather all your questions and ask them in one email / phone call. Do not shoot off 50 one-off questions on instant message unless you're close with your senior/mid-level - that's annoying to most people. Also, make a good faith attempt to answer your own question before asking other people - many things can be answered via Google or searching precedents on the system.

10. As someone else mentioned, read all emails carefully and completely, even if they don't appear to apply to you. This will help you understand the deal, even if it seems like gibberish at first.

11. If you're a first year, I wouldn't send a task to a paralegal unless the more senior associate specifically instructs you to. If you don't know how to do an assignment yourself or have never done it before, you shouldn't delegate it, because then you won't know how to review the work from the person you delegated it to.

12. Learn what proofreading marks look like.

13. If someone gives you an assignment and you complete it, you should let the associate know and send the updated document, no matter how simple the change was. ("FYI, this has been completed - see attached.") Don't just say "OK" without sending the updated document or confirming that the task is done.

14. Ask your questions to the person directly above you. For example, if you're a first year and on a team with a third year and a sixth year, ask the third year your questions before you go to the sixth year. If the third year doesn't know, then you can go to the sixth year.

I would definitely ask the person above me instead of going to the partner, even if you have a relationship with the partner. The partner doesn't need to be bothered if someone else more junior than the partner can answer the question.

15. Do not ask for the more senior associates to re-send you documents and information that they've already sent you. Don't be lazy - just pull it from the system / prior emails yourself. This is a one-way street - they can ask you, as the junior, to send them the same documents over and over again, but you shouldn't do the same to them. Might seem unfair but keep in mind they have 10x more emails than you and way more matters / teams to manage.

16. It is your job to save down documents and keep checklists updated on a daily basis, unless told otherwise. If a document comes in from opposing counsel, you should save it, even if it's not "your" document.

Maybe a fresh first year wouldn't be allowed to touch a checklist but if you're a second year and people are still not trusting you with the checklist, it might be because they don't trust you in general... Like another poster mentioned, I would be proactive about this and volunteer to update it if you haven't been asked to do it yet. If you're nervous about it, you can do the changes in track so that any incorrect updates can be easily rejected.

Just my two cents.

[Anonymous User]

I wonder how much of the perceived increase in boundaries setting is due to a uniquely short-term view of biglaw amongst the covid classes (particularly the current second and third years).

I'm a second year and I think that I am pretty good about being responsive and available (basically for the purpose of not hanging midlevels I like out to dry). But I view biglaw a box I need to tick more or less akin to legal residency, and have no desire whatsoever to be a senior or even really a 4th+ year in a biglaw firm. If I were to get the talk in a couple months along with some website time and a paid window to find a new job, I'm sure that I'd be more worried than I'm imagining now, but I also think that I'd ultimately be ok and it would probably be a net positive for my quality of life moving forward. I've felt that way since about 3 months in, and based on conversations with my firm and law school classmates, I would say that that view is the consensus among corporate juniors in my year.

Now, I'm sure some of that is the naive worldview of a group of associates who have only ever known an extremely hot corporate legal market, but I wonder if associate classes are entering biglaw with less desire to stick it out long-term than the classes before them (and thus feel less of an impetus to be a good junior associate). I also wonder if midlevels/seniors/partners have always felt this way about juniors (i.e. "we were better when we were juniors"), since its sort of a self-selecting group of good ones who make it to that level anyway.

This is entirely my viewpoint (one full year down...max 3 or 4 left). My goal is to essentially not get fired before my 4th year, and even if I do, I think it would still be a net positive...I'll just do something else for $100,000+ or I can lateral and bounce around for 2 year stints until I hit my 4th year. For this reason, I put in the absolute bare minimum and I don't ever intend on hitting my 2000 billable target (1600-1700) since the after tax and time value of the bonus is immaterial to my financial condition.

Relatedly, I loathe working at a firm and practicing law in general, so if getting fired or pushed out happens, then it's the market telling me I either suck at this (which could be very true) or I don't have the personality to put up with the bullshit (which I don't...I don't enjoy the work and I find hanging out with lawyers to be a rather insufferable experience. I went to business school before law school and met my best friends there...law school, not so much). The constant on edge personalities along with the dullness of corporate practice is insufferable to me.