Kirkland announced 3x/week “hybrid” return to office, attorneys “expected” to be in office Tuesday-Thursday Forum

[Anonymous User]

Ooh do we have a KE on KE fight here? This is getting entertaining.

[Anonymous User]

lllllllllloooooooooolllllllllll

[Anonymous User]

Ooh do we have a KE on KE fight here? This is getting entertaining.

This is so good. Honestly, I'm going to SA at Kirkland this summer and I'm excited. But so many of the Kirkland associates on here seem so aggressive and miserable. I just want to give y'all a hug.

[Anonymous User]

Ooh do we have a KE on KE fight here? This is getting entertaining.

This is so good. Honestly, I'm going to SA at Kirkland this summer and I'm excited. But so many of the Kirkland associates on here seem so aggressive and miserable. I just want to give y'all a hug.

It'll happen to you soon too, kid. Enjoy the lobster while you can.

[Anonymous User]

Ooh do we have a KE on KE fight here? This is getting entertaining.

This is so good. Honestly, I'm going to SA at Kirkland this summer and I'm excited. But so many of the Kirkland associates on here seem so aggressive and miserable. I just want to give y'all a hug.

It'll happen to you soon too, kid. Enjoy the lobster while you can.

Must be something in the water cooler there.

[Anonymous User]

another incoming summer here just waiting for someone to validate the previous claim that you can get up to $40 reimbursed for food for every day you stay in the office past 8

[meat tornado]

another incoming summer here just waiting for someone to validate the previous claim that you can get up to $40 reimbursed for food for every day you stay in the office past 8

Don’t work at Kirkland, but I think every firm does this

[Anonymous User]

another incoming summer here just waiting for someone to validate the previous claim that you can get up to $40 reimbursed for food for every day you stay in the office past 8

Don’t work at Kirkland, but I think every firm does this

Most firms do about $30 I think. Mine does even less than that. Kirkland may do $40-$45. I have a friend in the rx group there who told me something like that. During busy times she never left the office before midnight so hey might as well get that free meal.

[Anonymous User]

I was already planning on doing pre-OCI for K&E, but this thread is really settling it. K&E to v1 by 2025

[Anonymous User]

This is wildly partner/group specific and my guess is that everyone saying KE doesn't care and has never cared is a corporate associate. To wit, shortly before covid hit, the entire NY litigation group had a meeting in which we were told that we were expected to be in the office five days per week during working hours.

I chuckle at how some people assume everyone is in New York, even for a firm that with an HQ outside of New York. I am in lit in a non-NY office and no one cared where work was done pre-Covid. Most partners were out of the office much (if not most) of the time anyway.

[Anonymous User]

This is wildly partner/group specific and my guess is that everyone saying KE doesn't care and has never cared is a corporate associate. To wit, shortly before covid hit, the entire NY litigation group had a meeting in which we were told that we were expected to be in the office five days per week during working hours.

I chuckle at how some people assume everyone is in New York, even for a firm that with an HQ outside of New York. I am in lit in a non-NY office and no one cared where work was done pre-Covid. Most partners were out of the office much (if not most) of the time anyway.

It's absolutely group-and-partner-specific. I am personally concerned that with the new policy so strongly stated, at least for awhile, facetime expectations will in fact go up to try to get people back into some sense of in-person working. When the office re-opened in November it was still a ghost town.

[Anonymous User]

This is meant for staff. The policy even before COVID was essentially "don't ask, don't tell" re attorney in-office presence and varied more depending on practice group & the partners you were working with. It will continue to be that way. Kirkland has a very hands off attitude toward its associates (as long as they're producing and billing and available at 3am) and that isn't going to change.

I think it's a great move for staff. We've had many people quitting because they saw attorneys weren't coming into the office but they were being forced to come in and they perceived that, rightly or wrongly, as unfair. This should go a long way to addressing that.

The only edge case where I can think this might matter for attorneys is if some boomer partner is insisting on in-person meetings on Friday. Will enough associates have the balls to point to the new policy and say "on Fridays, we're remote now." I somehow doubt it but you never know.

Second this. I think everyone on here forgets that law firms are not just 100% attorneys and often have extensive (hundreds if not more) support staff in IT, billing, assistants, etc.

Attorney expectations re: in-office work are entirely dependent on group dynamics, personal partner relationships and if you are meeting your hours.

Does anyone seriously think that if your partner was a hard-ass about being in the office that he will magically start caring about a hybrid schedule now? He will tell you to be in your seat bright and early Monday morning and you will do it or find another person to work with.

Likewise, if your partner couldn't care less about you taking work from home days before, you will probably have a lot more leniency than just this 3-day hybrid schedule.

[Anonymous User]

another incoming summer here just waiting for someone to validate the previous claim that you can get up to $40 reimbursed for food for every day you stay in the office past 8

Don’t work at Kirkland, but I think every firm does this

Most firms do about $30 I think. Mine does even less than that. Kirkland may do $40-$45. I have a friend in the rx group there who told me something like that. During busy times she never left the office before midnight so hey might as well get that free meal.

I'm at K&E. The policy is that you can get a $40 meal on any weekday in which you work two hours more than the "standard office hours." For example, the standard in my office (the amount you need to put in the time tracker even if it's just nonbillable/filler) is 7.5 hours, so if you work 9.5 hours or more you get the $40 meal. On weekend days, you get a $40 meal if you work 4 hours, and two $40 meals if you work 8+ hours. The actual time of day doesn't matter, just the total working hours. In all cases, the policy only applies if you're working in the office or at a client site (aka not working from home).

If you're traveling, you instead get meals based on the travel policy, which is $40 for breakfast, $50 for lunch, and $100 for dinner ($125 in NYC, LA, SF, or Palo Alto). This applies to every day you're traveling on firm business. The same policy applies when you're doing callback interviews, taking the Bar, traveling as part of the summer program, etc.

[Anonymous User]

another incoming summer here just waiting for someone to validate the previous claim that you can get up to $40 reimbursed for food for every day you stay in the office past 8

Don’t work at Kirkland, but I think every firm does this

Most firms do about $30 I think. Mine does even less than that. Kirkland may do $40-$45. I have a friend in the rx group there who told me something like that. During busy times she never left the office before midnight so hey might as well get that free meal.

I'm at K&E. The policy is that you can get a $40 meal on any weekday in which you work two hours more than the "standard office hours." For example, the standard in my office (the amount you need to put in the time tracker even if it's just nonbillable/filler) is 7.5 hours, so if you work 9.5 hours or more you get the $40 meal. On weekend days, you get a $40 meal if you work 4 hours, and two $40 meals if you work 8+ hours. The actual time of day doesn't matter, just the total working hours. In all cases, the policy only applies if you're working in the office or at a client site (aka not working from home).

If you're traveling, you instead get meals based on the travel policy, which is $40 for breakfast, $50 for lunch, and $100 for dinner ($125 in NYC, LA, SF, or Palo Alto). This applies to every day you're traveling on firm business. The same policy applies when you're doing callback interviews, taking the Bar, traveling as part of the summer program, etc.

Why would the "standard office hours" number vary by office? Like, it's different for NYC, Chicago, and DC? Seems odd but maybe I'm missing something.

[Anonymous User]

another incoming summer here just waiting for someone to validate the previous claim that you can get up to $40 reimbursed for food for every day you stay in the office past 8

Don’t work at Kirkland, but I think every firm does this

Most firms do about $30 I think. Mine does even less than that. Kirkland may do $40-$45. I have a friend in the rx group there who told me something like that. During busy times she never left the office before midnight so hey might as well get that free meal.

I'm at K&E. The policy is that you can get a $40 meal on any weekday in which you work two hours more than the "standard office hours." For example, the standard in my office (the amount you need to put in the time tracker even if it's just nonbillable/filler) is 7.5 hours, so if you work 9.5 hours or more you get the $40 meal. On weekend days, you get a $40 meal if you work 4 hours, and two $40 meals if you work 8+ hours. The actual time of day doesn't matter, just the total working hours. In all cases, the policy only applies if you're working in the office or at a client site (aka not working from home).

If you're traveling, you instead get meals based on the travel policy, which is $40 for breakfast, $50 for lunch, and $100 for dinner ($125 in NYC, LA, SF, or Palo Alto). This applies to every day you're traveling on firm business. The same policy applies when you're doing callback interviews, taking the Bar, traveling as part of the summer program, etc.

The fact that the policy doesn't apply while you're WFH is a major L. A lot of firms reimbursed during covid WFH.

So you don't have to bill 9.5 hours right? Just work those numbers of hours?

[Anonymous User]

What firms are reimbursing for meals for WFH? If I was a client I would go ballistic at being billed for an "office meal" with people working from home.

[Anonymous User]

What firms are reimbursing for meals for WFH? If I was a client I would go ballistic at being billed for an "office meal" with people working from home.

$45 is not even 5 minutes of a first year's rate, strange thing to get worked up about.

[Anonymous User]

What firms are reimbursing for meals for WFH? If I was a client I would go ballistic at being billed for an "office meal" with people working from home.

Ropes (I think $60 but unsure of the number), Dechert ($40), Goodwin ($20 loll) and several more if you ask around.

Not sure why clients would "go ballistic" when everyone was confined to the home due to covid. It would be fair to change the amount allowed or discontinue the policy because they're worried too many people would take advantage of it. But this has nothing to do with the concept being senseless during a pandemic.

[Anonymous User]

another incoming summer here just waiting for someone to validate the previous claim that you can get up to $40 reimbursed for food for every day you stay in the office past 8

Don’t work at Kirkland, but I think every firm does this

Most firms do about $30 I think. Mine does even less than that. Kirkland may do $40-$45. I have a friend in the rx group there who told me something like that. During busy times she never left the office before midnight so hey might as well get that free meal.

I'm at K&E. The policy is that you can get a $40 meal on any weekday in which you work two hours more than the "standard office hours." For example, the standard in my office (the amount you need to put in the time tracker even if it's just nonbillable/filler) is 7.5 hours, so if you work 9.5 hours or more you get the $40 meal. On weekend days, you get a $40 meal if you work 4 hours, and two $40 meals if you work 8+ hours. The actual time of day doesn't matter, just the total working hours. In all cases, the policy only applies if you're working in the office or at a client site (aka not working from home).

If you're traveling, you instead get meals based on the travel policy, which is $40 for breakfast, $50 for lunch, and $100 for dinner ($125 in NYC, LA, SF, or Palo Alto). This applies to every day you're traveling on firm business. The same policy applies when you're doing callback interviews, taking the Bar, traveling as part of the summer program, etc.

Why would the "standard office hours" number vary by office? Like, it's different for NYC, Chicago, and DC? Seems odd but maybe I'm missing something.

K&E anon who posted the policy. I think it's some bullshit technicality related to state employment law and taxes or whatever. A few of our offices are like 0.5 higher or lower. It has exactly zero effect on my job other than being the number I need to hit with bullshit placeholder time if my hours for the day are too low.

[Anonymous User]

another incoming summer here just waiting for someone to validate the previous claim that you can get up to $40 reimbursed for food for every day you stay in the office past 8

Don’t work at Kirkland, but I think every firm does this

Most firms do about $30 I think. Mine does even less than that. Kirkland may do $40-$45. I have a friend in the rx group there who told me something like that. During busy times she never left the office before midnight so hey might as well get that free meal.

I'm at K&E. The policy is that you can get a $40 meal on any weekday in which you work two hours more than the "standard office hours." For example, the standard in my office (the amount you need to put in the time tracker even if it's just nonbillable/filler) is 7.5 hours, so if you work 9.5 hours or more you get the $40 meal. On weekend days, you get a $40 meal if you work 4 hours, and two $40 meals if you work 8+ hours. The actual time of day doesn't matter, just the total working hours. In all cases, the policy only applies if you're working in the office or at a client site (aka not working from home).

If you're traveling, you instead get meals based on the travel policy, which is $40 for breakfast, $50 for lunch, and $100 for dinner ($125 in NYC, LA, SF, or Palo Alto). This applies to every day you're traveling on firm business. The same policy applies when you're doing callback interviews, taking the Bar, traveling as part of the summer program, etc.

The fact that the policy doesn't apply while you're WFH is a major L. A lot of firms reimbursed during covid WFH.

So you don't have to bill 9.5 hours right? Just work those numbers of hours?

K&E anon who posted the policy. Yes, it's hours worked, not hours billed. I don't think they police it very closely. And yes, I agree - I sure as fuck wish they reimbursed meals for WFH because I would be drowning in takeout cartons by now lol. If I lived closer I might go to the office just for the food (they also have free food available no matter how many hours you work), I'm just too lazy.

[Anonymous User]

What firms are reimbursing for meals for WFH? If I was a client I would go ballistic at being billed for an "office meal" with people working from home.

Ropes (I think $60 but unsure of the number), Dechert ($40), Goodwin ($20 loll) and several more if you ask around.

Not sure why clients would "go ballistic" when everyone was confined to the home due to covid. It would be fair to change the amount allowed or discontinue the policy because they're worried too many people would take advantage of it. But this has nothing to do with the concept being senseless during a pandemic.

The whole point is that you should get charged for the meal because they've been stuck in the office, unable to get home and eat at home, because of work. It's not "client pays for meal because lawyer works a lot."

[Anonymous User]

What firms are reimbursing for meals for WFH? If I was a client I would go ballistic at being billed for an "office meal" with people working from home.

Ropes (I think $60 but unsure of the number), Dechert ($40), Goodwin ($20 loll) and several more if you ask around.

Not sure why clients would "go ballistic" when everyone was confined to the home due to covid. It would be fair to change the amount allowed or discontinue the policy because they're worried too many people would take advantage of it. But this has nothing to do with the concept being senseless during a pandemic.

The whole point is that you should get charged for the meal because they've been stuck in the office, unable to get home and eat at home, because of work. It's not "client pays for meal because lawyer works a lot."

Pretty sure the stipulation around having had to work X amount of hours before you can bill for a meal (or having to be at work part a certain hour) has largely to do with the principle of working past a certain hour. It also isn't a huge enough hit on the client for them to be outraged. If everyone is WFH due to a pandemic, your hours / assignment of work doesn't suddenly improve because you're not physically in the office.

[Anonymous User]

Just got the firmwide email. Starting March 29th, attorneys and staff are “expected to be present in the office on Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday.” Office will be open Monday & Friday but showing up is optional.

“In-person activities such as practice group meetings, training, social and engagement events” will occur between Tuesday-Thursday.

Thoughts?

Skadden is 3x a week but almost no one abides by it. I am in 3x a week because I work in a tiny group that demands it of me because the partners are obsessed with FaceTime, but the rest of my floor is always empty (partners and associates).

Can confirm--also at Skadden and I come in once a week at best, and less if things are busy. The partners in my practice don't care.

[Anonymous User]

another incoming summer here just waiting for someone to validate the previous claim that you can get up to $40 reimbursed for food for every day you stay in the office past 8

Don’t work at Kirkland, but I think every firm does this

Most firms do about $30 I think. Mine does even less than that. Kirkland may do $40-$45. I have a friend in the rx group there who told me something like that. During busy times she never left the office before midnight so hey might as well get that free meal.

I'm at K&E. The policy is that you can get a $40 meal on any weekday in which you work two hours more than the "standard office hours." For example, the standard in my office (the amount you need to put in the time tracker even if it's just nonbillable/filler) is 7.5 hours, so if you work 9.5 hours or more you get the $40 meal. On weekend days, you get a $40 meal if you work 4 hours, and two $40 meals if you work 8+ hours. The actual time of day doesn't matter, just the total working hours. In all cases, the policy only applies if you're working in the office or at a client site (aka not working from home).

If you're traveling, you instead get meals based on the travel policy, which is $40 for breakfast, $50 for lunch, and $100 for dinner ($125 in NYC, LA, SF, or Palo Alto). This applies to every day you're traveling on firm business. The same policy applies when you're doing callback interviews, taking the Bar, traveling as part of the summer program, etc.

Why would the "standard office hours" number vary by office? Like, it's different for NYC, Chicago, and DC? Seems odd but maybe I'm missing something.

It is odd. I forget the list but about half of the offices have a 7 hour “workday” and the other half have 7.5 hours. No clue why.

[noice]

Can someone paste the email

its just a giant middle finger